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First let me address some issues that have come up on this board.

1. Yes I am formerly DavidSD on this board.
2. No I have never been DSD on this board.
3. No I have never sent Jack or anybody else hate email, never in my life have I or would I do such a thing.
4. As far as me having a personality disorder, well that is a matter of conjecture, not fact. I will admit that many people do in fact think I do have a disorder, mostly Bi-polar, however needless to say I don't agree with this, the fact of the matter is most of you if you met me in person would think I was a very nice person, very honest, very kind, and very respectful. Remember that Einstein was labeled a dunce in school, Galileo was a nutcase, and Socrates was a heretic, Jesus was crucified in place of a murderer, John the Baptist was beheaded, Peter was crucified upside down, and the list goes on and on. Whether I'm a nutcase or I truly do have special knowledge, that is a matter you will have to decide for yourselves, I'm not here to convince you either way.

As for my relationship with my wife, it has been pointed out that there are two sides to every story, and I cannot agree more with that statement, I never said I was blameless, I never said I was a Saint, I never said I was perfect.

I believe that if Natasha could speak her story here, it would go something like this: "he yells at me all the time, he thinks I'm his slave, he tries to run my life and tell me what to do all the time, I cannot take his yelling at me anymore, nobody in my life has ever yelled at me like that, I'm afraid of him, I don't trust him, and I believe he may try to hurt me physically"

Is all of that true? Good question, let me try to answer it the best I can. Do I yell at her? Yes and no, to Natasha's definition of yelling, yes I do, to my definition of yelling, for the most part, no I don't. Yelling is when you basically scream at another person, but yelling to her is when you raise your voice past the normal level of talking. Why would I raise my voice to her? Good question. How about because she is an absolute slob who will not clean anything ever? Spills cranberry juice on brand new carpet, not once, not twice, not three times, but over and over and over again. Spills food all over the carpet, spills drinks on the sofa, food on the sofa, leaves her clothes all over the floor to the point where I cannot walk without stepping on them.

I ask her over and over again, Natasha, will you just pick up your clothes and throw them over in the corner? She replies, "don't tell me what to do, you always try to tell me what to do, I'm not your slave".

I say to her, "Natasha, will you just rinse out your dishes, I will take care of them from there, throwing them into the dishwasher and putting them away into the cabinets, she replies, "I will take care of them, don't worry", as she then goes onto the computer to converse with other people on some Russian message boards. So I wait all day for her to rinse off her dishes, and as the end of the day comes and she still has not done it, I ask her again, "Natasha, will you please rinse off your dishes, I would like to run the dishwasher", she then gets extremely angry, storms into the kitchen, half hazardly rinsing off two forks, two bowls, two spoons, and two glasses, and puts them to the side so I can put them into the dishwasher.

We have been together for 1.5 years now, during that whole time she has never cleaned the bathrooms, never cleaned the floor, she vacuumed once or twice, did dishes a few times, did my laundry a couple of times until I couldn't take it anymore since she won't fold the clothes so they come out all wrinkled.

She went out and bought a few plants, but they almost died many times because she won't water them, so I had to water them, sounds silly right, but that is simply a microcosm to the entire problem. She won't do anything around the house, and if I suggest that she should, I'm a jerk who just wants to use her as a slave.

Can I say something good about Natasha? Yes I can, she is the best cook I have ever met in my life, a very messy cook, but the best I've ever known. She is smart in a certain way, she speaks four languages, and for awhile I enjoyed her personality, we played games together like I've never done before with a girl, and if she wants to she can be very nice and very sweet.

Maybe she is serious about being afraid of me, I cannot be certain of this, maybe she really does hate it when someone "yells" at her, I believe this to be likely. But what should I have done then? What is the answer?

I'll tell you what I finally ended up doing, call me a fool because you would be correct, but I just didn't know what else to do, for the last 6 months or so, I simply stopped asking her to do anything, I realized it was completely futile, so I did everything, I cleaned the bathrooms, I cleaned the kitchen, the microwave, the floors, the carpet, I did my laundry and her laundry, I paid all the bills and worked the budget, I did all the grocery shopping, I cleaned up after her messes, I folded her clothes and picked them off the floor, etc.

I did not know what else to do, and given the same circumstances, I still don't know what else I could have done? How could I force her to go to work on time to keep from being fired at her job? I tried to wake her up, and she would just yell at me saying, "I know what I'm doing, leave me alone, you always try to tell me what to do, stop trying to run my life".

How do you talk to a person like that? How can you reason with a person like that? By what means do you work out a relationship with a person like that? What could I have done differently than what I did?

I am the kind of person who likes to talk about our problems, likes to compromise and work things out, likes to try to understand where the other person is coming from, but this was a waste of time with her, it was like talking to a mirror, all I was doing was talking and it was being thrown back at me in my face, she was the one who was never wrong, she was the one who was innocent, I was the bad guy, the jerk who always yelled, the jerk who treated her as a slave, etc.

I was never the guy who sent her 5,000 dollar via western union over an 8 month period, I was not the guy who worked 7 days a week to support us, I was not the guy who came home everyday tired as can be but took her places, taught her to drive over a 3 month period, bought her a brand new car, and then bought a second brand new car after she totaled the first one. I was not the guy who tried to get her some friends, I was not the guy who put her resume together, who took her around to apply for jobs, I was not the guy who took us to Las Vegas to get married, stayed in a 200 dollar a night room at the Venetian for a week, got married on a gondola ride, and spent a week having fun in Las Vegas. I was not the guy who taught her to swim in the pool at the Venetian, or taught her to play tennis, or taught her the countless thousands of things about this country, and the way things work here.

I was not the guy who paid 1000 dollars for her mom to come to San Diego to visit for two months; I was not the guy who she spent 4,000 dollars out of our checking account while her mother was here. And guess what, I confronted her mother about this, telling her that Natasha is spending too much money, and do you know what her mother said? "4000 dollars? That is normal for America"

Oh yeah, that is normal for America all right, for some rich guy, but I'm not a rich guy, I have to work 7 days a week in order to make a living. To her credit, her mother cooked everyday, cleaned the whole entire apartment everyday, not as clean as I would do it, but still she worked hard everyday at it, and I never asked her to do this, she just did it.

And therein lies the problem I think, her mother has spoiled Natasha, done everything for her her whole life, and Natasha knows no responsibility, she knows nothing of money, nothing of a budget, nothing of cleaning anything, and since her mother has always been single, nothing of what a relationship is all about.

If I ever did this all over again, this is what I would do this time.

1. Get to know the girls mother, what her mother is like may be what she is like also.
2. Look for a girl who has both a mother and father, not from a single mother household.
3. Make sure the girl has a job, and make sure that job is the kind of job that you would approve of, Natasha never had any job in Prague.
4. Make sure there are no gray areas that the girl is unwilling to talk about, if something sounds fishy, it probably is.
5. Make sure the girl acts realistic, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is, the chances of finding a true princess are pretty slim.
6. If you go all the way over there, and you get into a fight, walk away and don't look back, it’s a sign of things to come.
7. If she seems the slightest bit selfish, don't convince yourself that things will work out, they probably won't, nobody can change anybody.
8. Once the girl gets here, don't commit yourself 100%, use the entire 3 months before marrying her, be ready to bail from the relationship if she turns out to be more of a pain then its worth, just realize this may be very hard to do to be so cold as to make them go back home.
9. Realize that this is a big risk, yes it works for some, but to others this can end in a disaster, I may be no prince, and there may be millions of guys better than me, but still I'm a nice, compassionate, caring, responsible, understanding, helpful, and kind person who tried his very best to make things work between us, maybe its actually true that nice guys always finish last, because that is where I have always been.
10. Be realistic, its great to dream, but dreams can turn into nightmares if you set your sights too high, I hope I have learned my lesson.

I realize many of you hate me, but really I'm a nice guy, if you ever come to Vegas, let me know and we can meet with each other, perhaps then at least you can find out for yourself.

The best of luck to all of you, may you have better luck then I did.

David

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

things could be much worse.  This Natasha thing you need to put far behind you.  Have a future and a life and its a good time to loose all your pent-up hostility.  Be a happy guy.  Forget it all,  live a good life and get a legal divorce with a lawyer calling the shots.  You are too close and too hurt to be really objective about this.  You can't see the forest,  'for the trees.  And you should count yourself lucky that Natasha...ain't that smart.  She could be pregnant right now...with your twins.  With papers and lawyers waiting in the wings.  The thousands you talk about right now,  which you have spent, are peanuts...compared to the twins scenario.

Extricate yourself and do it cleanly.  You ain't ever gonna change her in any way.

And,  you should really count youself very lucky to get outta this thing right now.

These dollar amounts you throw around are very small potatoes compared to what things could be.  Honestly.

I know.  22 years ago I married the wrong Aw and she had the twins and...that short 5 year marriage cost me over a million dollars.  You should consider yourself a very lucky guy and move on with your life.  For you,  things ain't that bad at all.  You oughta be a happy guy.  I know you are hurtin'  from all this---more than most on this board can understand...but,  get it all behind you---tomorrow is a brand new day.  And you can build a brand new you.

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

I have learned this. Good and Evil are respective to how it affects you! In the old days we called it order and choas or as in the spy sitcom KAOS. So the rules of the game are all parts that fit together stick together. Sokme call this Karma, some synchronicity some just luck. Is there a God? Is there anything at all? There is one thing-now! All things that will ever be and ever have been exist in the now. So what this boils down to-if you want changes in your life-change yourself. Shyt attracts flies, but so does sugar. Life is a pair a ducks. All is fair because all is fixed. The fix is in! There is a place on the board for everyone-the way you mold yourself is where you will stick in the board. David you have been a raving lunatic who as far as I seen has offered nothing but animosity, self loathing and anti social beahavior-why should you expect any more than what you recieved. You believe in god? I SAID DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD!!!!!!!!!! Then you God just gave you a hand mirror! Look deeply into and reflect. Stop crying and relish in the fact you still have you life and your health. Selfish child!
Joe
ps good luck and my email is copybean2000@nospam.com if you really want some truth!

... in response to In my thousands of years on this planet...., posted by yoe on Nov 30, 2002

dis-jointed, irrational, goofy post which makes no sense. You accuse "David" of being a lunatic.....(lunatic. A person who is extremely eccentric or reckless).....perhaps YOU should utilize the hand mirror you recommended to "David." Like "David," YOU should seek therapy. Slow down, relax and give thought to what (and how) you are trying to communicate to others. In your post above, you are writing for yourself; not others as intended. I, for one, can't figure out what the hell you're trying to say. Are you from Southern California or San Francisco?? Good luck.

... in response to What are you trying to say? Another, posted by MtMav on Dec 1, 2002

For whatever it's worth Yoe, I think you are right on with the term lunatic.

MtMav would also probably agree if he witnessed what DSD is capable of doing to this board as demonstrated in the past.

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Dec 1, 2002

in the things I say. He may be a familiar voice with a different name? Is it true Mav? Do we have an old score to settle? Bring it off board. You have read my post. If you want me, it is easy to get me. All you got to do is call-and I'll be there!
Joe

... in response to What are you trying to say? Another, posted by MtMav on Dec 1, 2002

did you get those nudes that you requested-of me in compromising positions? Dork!

... in response to What are you trying to say? Another, posted by MtMav on Dec 1, 2002

I guess they did not include these discussions in the 6th grade curriculum.......s'ok you can still be a brain surgeon-just practice on yourself first obsession boy.
x0x0x0
Joe

... in response to In my thousands of years on this planet...., posted by yoe on Nov 30, 2002

nt

... in response to Space Alien weds two-headed Elvis Clone ..., posted by BarryM on Dec 1, 2002

nt

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

necessarily agree with your approach (re: your statements to the board), in dealing with your sorrow. However, I respect your honesty & openness, at least, in evaluating your present scenario. When you couple this event, with the death of your mother, well... my heart hurts for you (I too, come from a small family with many divorces & infidelities).

Your "ten com..," seem to acknowledge your culpability in your choice of a wife. Yet, I'm not here to "stone" an honest man, who bares his flaws & pain.

I hope, I'm correct in my assesment of your non-ersatz character. If not, live & learn...

Our nation: needs talented individuals, superfluous of their eccentricities; so, if you need to chat with someone -I'll gladly respond in kind.

There is, however, an angle you haven't commented much on:

Legal issues!!!!

You've, a 'Thermopylae' in your future lad. Use that..'186' for what it was intended - by God- steely-eyed defense of your earnings/self-worth, and it's inherrant potential.

Buck up mate, and grab your own shirt-collar(pop an e-mail address, & I'll help ya)!

Gustavus Adolphus (O.C. Vaughn)  

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

David,  what really went wrong is first,  you are or were  to nice a guy.
Second,  what is really wrong is, that you have tried what
everyone tried to do since the beginning of time.  You have
tried to make to things that are really opposite work
together, which is a man and a woman.   Do not kid yourself,
no matter what anyone on this post will tell you,  85% of the times it doom from the start.  No matter the countries,
the were you come from, the religions or what have you,
human are human and it is the way it goes.
Perfect love stories are in books, someone dreamed then
for Arlequin.  As for us, it is a uphill climb in the best of times.
The best part about love is when you are going up the
stairways,  when you do reach the bedroom - the work
start.
If every cockhold in the world had a bell around is neck,
no one could hear himself talk, anywhere.
The day that you say "I love you"  it is when it starts
going downhill.
Trust me, old enough to know that I can and will not win,
(but still trying somehow) and  I do know about love, all
of my wrinkles are paid for and in cash.
Like in the movie  with Steve McQueen, he said  "everyone
knows the game is crooked,  but it is the only game in
town."

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

Just for the sake of posterity, lets hear in a brief way the way you met your wife and how much interaction you had with her while in the FSU.

How many trips over did it take you ?

I wanna hear your trip report from days gone by.

... in response to Re: DavidSD give us your story, not a no..., posted by wsbill on Nov 30, 2002

'necro' & tomatoes, were your primary concern(obsessions)!

No offense, I simply don't like 'dog kicker's, tis all...

I don't wish to disturb your obvious skills or homeland. (I rather like: 'Southern culture' & all it's 'negative' attributes that are so twisted by our cosmopolitan adversaries).

Prior to throwin' that 'pebble of wisdom'... Show compassion, for a man who recently lost his mother.

Shame on you,

Vaughn

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

Just curious. Did you see any of this behaviour when you spent time with her in Russia? Did you get into arguments? Was she a slob, unwilling to clean up her own home or apartment? Was she cavalier on spending money when you were dating? Did you just miss those signals or was she willfully trying to hide them?

- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: More insights into what went wrong, posted by Jeff S on Nov 30, 2002

Yes, there were signs when I went to Prague to meet with Natasha, but my love for her blinded me to those. I guess I was fairly desperate at the time, and wanted a wife so much.

When she picked me up from the Airport, I looked at her body and said, "wow", very nice. She looked good, I remember the day very well.

We took a taxi back to her apartment, everything seemed fine until we went into her room, she laid down on her bed to relax, and I immediately noticed that there were about 10 fly's flying in circles around her room, and she just laid there acting as if this were no big deal whatsoever, I immediately was very turned off by this, since I cannot stand fly's and will chase them down to no end until none exist in my house, I cannot tolerate fly's in my home. But to her, it was no big deal whatsoever, that did not sit well with me.

Second, she got very angry with me for putting my suitcase on the couch, I thought this was very bizarre, so I asked, where should I put it? She informed me that the floor would be ok.

Do you see a dichotomy there? She is so concerned about cleanliness of couches and my dirty suitcase, but flies are no big deal?

Looking back on it, I can see to her it was simply a matter of respect, and not cleanliness, because I can assure you this girl is anything but a clean person.

Additionally, she would take many things that I would say offensively, as if I had meant to insult her, I was constantly trying to explain myself, I thought it was simply the language barrier, but now I believe different since she still does the same thing all the time.

We got into a big fight while I was there, and she showed herself to be very selfish, thinking of herself all the time, but again I chose to look the other way, I chose to only see the good, the potential, I chose to see only what I wanted to see, not the cold hard reality.

Yes I believe I will be much wiser after all this, better able to discern next time a girl who would be right for me, and who I might be right for.

Yes there were many signs, and to a more experienced man, he would have picked up on them, I guess I just wanted to live the fantasy, I guess I just didn't want all those months of long conversations on the phone, and thousands of dollars to be wasted by a few fly's, a few bad arguments, and a little selfish behavior.

Boy life is hard, I wish I could go back to being a kid again, if only I had known how hard life would be.

But then again, I was pretty happy for awhile, and I did learn a lot from all of this, I only hope things will start to get better for me, I only hope I can pick up the pieces successfully and live to see a better day.

If I ever go over again, it will be to meet 5-10 girls, and try to get to know them first in person, not over the phone, I know the type of girl I like, and hopefully I could pick her out if I could ever find her.

I guess I can try?

So yes, I have nobody to blame but myself, next time I won't be so naïve, and maybe that is half the battle.

... in response to Re: Re: More insights into what went wro..., posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

Good for you...that's the attitude.  And the offer is still good.  

I have known my squeeze for 2 years, and met her 3 times, and now have 4 inches of emails.  We are friends, lovers, write every day, her English has improved remarkably, and I still say "Whoh, Boy."  I think I can still be taken, although I don't think so.  You are smarter now than before, and won't make the same mistake again.  

Learn, think, do.  Do some homework, read books other than those you normally read (Mars/Venus by John Grey) and you will probably be fine...well, see someone to discuss thoughts, feelings, fears as well.

It's a Great Life, If You Don't Weaken!!!

Good Luck.

Good Luck

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

David,

sorry to hear things did not work out. I hope that you would treat the experience as a learning experience and figure out not only what went wrong, but also why it went wrong.

I hope many guys who read the board will learn a lot too. I read through your list of "rules", but most of them focus on the "selection" process, not your own behavior...?? Couple questions which come to my mind EACH time I read horror stories:
- why did you have to spend thousands of money while she was in her country, after she came over, on her car, dentist, shopping, etc? Life is not coming to the end tomorrow and the successful couples I know spend decades of their life time together acquiring those things TOGETHER. Especially if you are both young people like in your case, you have you life time ahead to do all that. May be some of the guys are trying to compensate something with the money??
- why do you think RWs are any different than any other women? If you think that all russian women can cook, clean and take care of the house - I bet 200% the woman you find will turn totally the opposite just to prove you wrong. Life sometimes can be cruel and sarcastic just to prove us totally wrong on the things we never dared to take different opinion on.
- why do you think you have to babysit grown up woman? Yes, it is a new country and different language, different customs and even sports :) But it is HER responsibility as well to become independant and learn new thing. There should be her effort in trying to understand new things and be flexible. And to what extent do you allow somebody to walk over you and treat you bad?
- why do you never expect anything back in return? attention, care, love, respect just to name few. In any investment you expect to see some dividend, when it does bad you cut your losses and move on. The question is how long are you willing to watch it go bad before it hits the bottom? Or how you know there is a bottom?

There are many other things which puzzle me. For some reason many men and women think that the marriage would be the solution to all their problems in life. But, somehow it just manages to bring us in the situations where our own problems become only more obvious. The biggest lesson is how you deal with them.

Good luck to you.

... in response to all the bad stories, posted by RW on Nov 30, 2002

Good post! Thank you.

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

and good luck in the future. And your 10 point list is a pretty good guide line for those still searching.

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

David,

Please read my "Agreed" down the page, which was directed at you.  Good Luck.

... in response to More insights into what went wrong, posted by John LV on Nov 30, 2002

I am more of a lurker than one to comment...BUT...It seems that you just picked the wrong girl. Seems that the best choice would be to learn from this experience and move on.
This itis not going to work with this girl. Just be happy that she does not want to stay to mahe your life unhappy. There are plenty of other women in the CIS and beyond!