Planet-Love.com Searchable Archives

[This message has been edited by Ryan]

I have been writing to one woman for 5 months I found her at the agency Volgagirl.  She had been listed on this site for over one year and I was the third man that she corresponded with threw this agency.   I had asked her what made her go to Volgagirl in the first place and she said that she heard an advertisement over the radio and that it cost her no money to sign up so she gave it a chance.  She told me she wrote to one man that said he didn't like her, she then was written by another man that she didn’t like then after all most a year I came along wrote her and sense that time we managed to write over 300 letters to each other.  We send pictures, talked on the phone and wrote E-mails as well as postal mail.  We broke all ties to the Volgagirl agency from the first letter as I put my gave her my E-mail address and told her to write me in this way only.  She has a computer in her home so she wrote most all letters in Russian and I translated them with Free Internet translators.  I sent her Roses at her work and received a picture of her holding them, she sent me gifts threw the mail that I never had a problem receiving.  She was taking privet English lessons the whole time and we ended up using her teacher for when I met with her family.  I never had much of a problem communicating with my pen pal.    

I had a ticket purchased before I ever met this woman because I was planning on making a trip in the late spring to the Ukraine areas.  I canceled this trip, as I didn’t have enough woman line up to visit with.  I needed to use the ticket within a year so it just worked out and I made plans to visit my new pen pal in Togliatti Russia.  I requested a Visa that I received through the help of a travel agency/Visa service out of New York.  I then waited and saved money for a trip in November.  I didn’t know how I was going to get from Moscow to Togliatti so I simply asked my friend if she could help.  Come to find out that she was impatiently waiting for me to ask her to meet in Moscow.  She wanted vary much to come a meet me in this city and travel with me back to her city.  I took the big chance laid caution to the wind and let trust rule my heart and let her set up everything.  Before I did this I sent her copies of my Visa and passport as well as copies of my plane ticket with times and all.  She then setout to reserve my airplane from Moscow to Togliatti as well as a train ride for herself to Moscow and finally a train ride for the both of us from Togliatti to Moscow.  I offered countless times that I would send her some money for this travel but she refused every time saying that it was no problem she would take care of it.  During this time I learned a lesson that she didn’t like talking about money.  I wanted to know all the details and how much money I should bring but in the end I took what I felt I needed.  She wrote in one letter all the costs of the place that I would stay and ended the letter with the sentence.  Ryan you are not on an island by yourself I also have money.  I never talked about finances again.  

I had this girlfriend/pen pal scan in all the tickets of my travel in her country just in case I needed them to show the customs people.  It was also a good way to make sure that she purchases them but by this time I had felt I had somehow established some trust threw the numerous letter writing.  But I really was just letting this all happen and was taking a big chance hoped that we liked each other and all that goes with this.  Yes, I am crazy but I feel you have to take some chances in life in order to get what you want.  I packed my bags and flew to Russia.

I landed in Russia and filled out the customs form declaring only my cash and some gold and diamond rings/jewelry that I wear.  I flew through customs with no problems and walked out into the crowded terminal to find my friend standing waiting in a beautiful fur coat and matching hat.  She smiled a big smile and we gave each other a big hug.  She had 5 yellow Roses for me and I had some fine chocolates from London for her.  She had hired a taxi driver that she used from the train station and we used him for our travel to the next airport for our plane to Samara/Togliatti.  We got to the airport she paid the taxi and we headed into the airport.  At this time we went to have a seat to wait for our plane and just sat looking at eat other asking questions both in amazement that we were actually with each other.  She asked me if I wanted something to drink and I said yes I would have a beer.  She went and got us two beers and some nuts.  At this time all I remember was holding a bottle of beer in one hand and a cup in the other while she fed me pistachios one by one.  I looked up at heaven and said to myself… Ryan this is going to be one fast trip you are never going to want to leave this woman in 12 days.  In the end I was right.  We got on the plane to Togliatti and just sat their holding each other kissing each other and looking at each other the whole way.  From the beginning we were laughing and joking and smiling about just anything it was chemistry at it’s best.  

We reached Samara and her father was waiting to drive us to Togliatti.  Her father gave me a big smile and a handshake and grabbed my bags and headed to the car.  We drove for about an hour I sat in the front with her father and was just amazed how similar this countryside looked to my area here in Michigan this is including the weather. The weather in Moscow and Samara and Michigan are the same.  At one point a deer even ran across the road it was really strange I felt like I was at home driving up north going to the cabin.   He got to the city and it was typical Russian city with the Russian apartment buildings and busses and such.  We drove out between district one and two of this city and my apartment was located on the Volga River at a resort rest area.  Her father had set this up for me, as he was the head carpenter boss man of this area.  My apartment was on the highest floor over looking the river with two huge bathrooms a big bedroom, living room and foyer area near the entrance.  The bathroom off my bedroom had a new three-person bathtub it was all Russian first class.   Up to this point I never got my wallet out and paid for a dime.  Her father help with the bags to my apartment then left and when out to the car where he waited while my girlfriend made me tea, cut some sausage, cheese and bread while we sat and talked.  She went home soon after as I was tired from my travels.  

The next day she returned at 11:00 in the morning.  I had time to unpack and clean up the apartment to my liking.  I had rose shaped candles that I brought in the bathrooms.  I had my flowers in a vase on a table.  Everything was put away and I sprayed my best cologne all over the apartment.  When she walked in the apartment she was impressed that everything was so tidy and clean.  We had some more tea and then went for lunch at the clubhouse.  The menu was preset breakfast, lunch and dinner was reserved for me at set times and at a set table each day.  My first day for lunch they happened to be serving borsch so I was in heaven.  I ate all my food then finished off my girlfriend’s food.  She enjoyed the fact that I liked the Russian food so much and we joked and laughed about as always.  All the while her father was also eating lunch across the room with his work friends.  A practice that only seemed to happen this one time.  The rest of my day was just a blur at this point my girlfriend and I enjoyed each other company so much it didn’t matter what we were doing.  I sent her home in a taxi the second day at about 9:00.  It felt good these first couple days having the evening to myself.  I need time to grasp what was happening, take some nice baths and just relax and reflect.  On the third day we went to the registers office in the city, district three I think, to register my Visa.  We went into an office where two nice looking women were working.  I sat on the couch while my girlfriend did all the talking she filled out some paperwork then we left.  The next day was a Saturday so we went to the bank paid 20 rubels and took the receipt back to the registers office.   We went into the same room she filled out more paper work and in about 30 Minutes time I got my passport stamped.  The woman told my girlfriend that next time I should travel on a privet Visa and not a tourist.  We went to lunch to celebrate our good fortune and luck and that evening I had dinner with the family.

Earlier on the second day I asked my friend about how much I should pay for my apartment and the travel arrangement she had made.  She pulled out about two hundred American dollars worth of rubels and told me what she has spent I gave her about $750 and two hundred for the rubels she gave me for spending cash and everything was set.  We never talked about money again.  She would pay for most everything we did while I paid for some things as well as bought souvenirs and such.  Everything was perfect nothing like the Ukraine where I was footing the bill for everything.  It was even I paid and she paid the rest of the time was just good laughs jokes and just plane fun.   She had a great sense of humor and we got along great as always never even a hint or red flag of any sorts.  We were truly falling in love with each other.  

Dinner with the family was just great.  I had the interpreter at the house and my friend’s mother had made all sorts of food up.  I ate and ate until I was ready to burst as we all drank champaign and laughed.  Never a quit moment, I was on that night and had them all rolling on the floor.  My girlfriend and I were like a comedy team and so alike in our humor that it was spooky.   The evening was a big hit then my friend and I took a taxi back to my apartment.  This was the first night that she slept over and this practice remained the same the rest of my stay.  We had a great time, sitting in the baths with candles and champaign exploring each other and just getting to know everything about one another.  We are so much the same down to our feet and hands mine being just a little bigger.  We had the same birthmarks and freckles in the same places.  If she didn’t live in Russia I would think we were related.  We were quickly learning that we both could not live without each other.  She told me she was the happiest she has ever been in her life being with me and I felt exactly the same….

Part two cooking food together, touring Moscow for a day in a limo and the goodbye….

... in response to Trip Report --  Russia in November (Long..., posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

Ryan - congrats on your success. Russian women are the best, and it sounds like you lucked into a great one. Another "go to Russia to meet one woman" success story! So much for conventional wisdom...Will

... in response to Re: Trip Report --  Russia in November (..., posted by WilliamF on Nov 26, 2002

William, how can this be judged a success story?  I recently went to Russia and met 12 women.  I could have decided that any of the 12 were 'the one' and could have written gushy (and real) stories about 'that one.'

But, by having the chance to compare the 12 ladies (and several from previous trips), I knew in my mind and in my heart, that none of them were 'the one,' at least not yet as I don't know any of them well enough.  I did spend 10 days with one and 8 days with another, but still didn't think I knew them well enough as some guys think they do after a week.

If I had spent all of my time with only one lady, I might very well be going through the K processs right now because many of them seemed pretty cool when viewed in isolation.  But when you take time to compare them against each other, that is when the flaws start to show up and you realize that none of them are 'the one.'  

And this is not to say that I have no flaws, nor that I am looking for a perfect gal or will ever find a perfect gal.  It is just that by having a chance to compare, you can have a much more rational thought process and not go all 'ga ga' over one.

To me, the concept of 'success story' goes a bit further.  I was married to one woman for 28 years.  Was that a 'success story?'  Well it wasn't to those who are married for 30 years.  It certainly wasn't with respect to my parents who celebrated their golden wedding anniversary, nor for one of my sets of grandparents who made it to 70th anniversary.

JR

... in response to How so William??, posted by juio99 on Nov 27, 2002

I was wondering how did your grandparents married 70 years meet?  Did they compare each other with many partners?  Or did they just somehow know they were good for each other and that they both loved one another.

... in response to Re: How so William??, posted by Ryan on Nov 27, 2002

They met just like most folks did back then.  The went to the Saturday night dances where guys and gals came from miles around.  They each danced with many and stole away behind the barn to kiss with many.  They went to school together for about 10 years and their families visited each other often.

They both freely admitted to infatuation but thought that love does not come until past 10 years or so of marriage.

JR

... in response to Trip Report --  Russia in November (Long..., posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

Ryan,

Wonderful trip report. I am so happy for you. She sounds like a wonderful lady. Appears like you lucked out my friend.

Ryan, you could have remained paranoid as a result of your Lugansk lady. You went back to the approach of trust and were not disappointed this time.  Congrats to you and her.

... in response to Trip Report --  Russia in November (Long..., posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

I'm glad to hear that your trip went well.  I hope everything works out for the best.  I am curious as to what your plans are for going back to visit her again are?

... in response to Re: Trip Report --  Russia in November (..., posted by Richard on Nov 25, 2002

Thanks for the good wishes.  I guess I sort of deserve some of the comments that I am getting here.  Oh well what can I say…   I will be going back to Togliatti in May at this time I will visit with her and her family again.  I will ask her father if I could have her daughters hand in marriage.  My girlfriend and I will then travel to St. Petersburg for a few days over the 300th celebration of the cities history time.  I will propose to her at this time in this city as she has told me it is her favorite and that the sky is just beautiful.  From this point we will travel back to Togliatti and I will have a ball rolling on the Fiancé Visa stuff…  From this point the next trip over would be again in the November area for final stuff in Moscow meeting or what ever I have to do.  I hope to have her here in my arms by Christmas of next year.   Again this is if all goes as plans…  No mater what I am going to make all this happen.

... in response to The Future..., posted by Ryan on Nov 26, 2002

Ryan,
I am very happy for your great trip.  I hope everything will work out better than you plan.  I know exactly how you feel at this moment because I went through (note spelling please.  It is not "threw") a similar time in meeting my wife.  I am concerned about your last sentence though.  "No mater what I am going to make all this happen."  It is good to be determined, but it is bad to thow caution to the wind.  There are many things that could still happen that will "matter".  Do not proceed blindly.  As pefect as everything seems to be, it is still better to keep your eyes wide open for any possible pitfalls.  I wish you only the best.
KenC

... in response to Trip Report --  Russia in November (Long..., posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

appears that finally all is well for you,  takes a little time,  Huh!

... in response to Nice to read your report Ry..., posted by tim360z on Nov 25, 2002

It has taken about three years just to get to this point and I suspect if all goes well about one more year until she is sitting here in my home next to me.  Then it is the emotional trip, you worry and wait wondering if she will even like you and then when she turns out that she really loves you and you love her then you have to leave each other at some airport and be apart until paperwork and meetings and the marriage actually happens.  Finally the money you have airfare, housing and all the other crap that goes with this journey and I feel so far I have gotten off easy on the money side.  If you ask me we must be just a little crazy to put ourselves through all of this….  Then again if you would have asked me last week when I was sitting with a 25 year old hard body in my arms I would say no problem I will go through this 10 more time if need be...

... in response to Time, Emotions and Money, posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

Ryan, as I said before, I wish you well; however, I think true love takes a few years to develop.

JR

... in response to Time, Emotions and Money, posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

Everyone wishes you success.  I think you were the one who got snookered for cash the first time around and wouldn't believe those who told you so.  Then it was agencies were crap and personal ads were best with great results.  (So..
where did you meet this girl???)  Then you liked looking up girls skirts and at nipples through seethrew blouses.

Just taking the "Michael" out of ya.  Sounds wonderful.  Just cool down, be sure, make a few more trips in the next several months, and the next 20 to 50 years will tell you if you did the right thing.

One more thing, even though she doesn't like to talk about money...a good prenup is worth discussing in about 8 or 9 months, just to cover your ass.

... in response to Trip Report --  Russia in November (Long..., posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

Ryan, I am happy for you.  Sounds like a pretty good situation with the gal and her family, however, don't rush things.

One thing I didn't understand.  You said that she indicated that she had spent $200 for the apt.  Then you gave her $750 plus $200 more for the rubles she gave you for spending money.  So you gave her $950 and she gave you or spent for you $400.  She was then up $550, right?

Then you said it was unlike Ukraine in that she paid for everything from then on.  But didn't she have your $550?

Sorry, I got lost here.

JR

... in response to Some clarification, posted by juio99 on Nov 25, 2002

Ya sorry about that...  She spent $450 for the travel to and from Moscow and Samara or the both of us all ways back and so on... I didn't want her to pay for this so I gave her the money. The apartment cost $300 for the 10 day at $30 a day a deal for what it was.  This makes the $750.  Then she exchanged for me $200 U.S. into Rubels so I paid $950 total... This is for everything on this trip not including my tickets to get to Russia...  I got that for $750...  She makes good money at her job and I think it is nicer for her to have some U.S. dollars this is why she exchanged money instead of a bank etc.  She paid for the Moscow happening and that was about $2000 rubels for the both of us..

... in response to Trip Report --  Russia in November (Long..., posted by Ryan on Nov 25, 2002

Sounds like a great trip so far, Ryan.  Very similar to my experience in how the girl reacted to money and how the relationship developed.  Hope its going well!

... in response to Re: Trip Report --  Russia in November (..., posted by Charles on Nov 25, 2002

is it just me or does this all sound like a crock of sheet??
I doubt very much this bogus "story"

... in response to Re: Re: Trip Report --  Russia in Novemb..., posted by Quick Fix on Nov 25, 2002

Quick Fix, it's all real.

Ryan is our resident,... our resident,.. well, not sure exactly what word I am looking for here but many of us have kind of taken him under our wings in trying to help him out.

We used to call him our resident dummy but he would too often show us his smarter, more tender side, so we, for the most part, stopped considering him our resident dummy (now that title is reserved for me, right spyke and claire!). Ryan is very likeable but then does some crazy, stupid things, things are teenage son's or daughter would do. You don't stop loving them, you just shake your head. Same with Ryan, we don't stop loving him, but he has, at least me, shaking my head now.

Of course I, and I think many here, wish him the best.

... in response to Take it easy now, posted by Jack on Nov 25, 2002

Sorry Jack, but this "story" doesn't pass the smell test. Way too many holes in it. Surprised a vet like you swallowed this horsesheet.

... in response to Re: Take it easy now, posted by Quick Fix on Nov 26, 2002

if it were not so funny, I would be crying!

Quick Fix, Ryan is real, Ryan made this trip, his second. Ryan met his second ever Russian lady on this trip and he is convienced he is in love. You must never forget Quick Fix that many walks with each other to the local drug stores will bring two people together.

I have tried in several messages and phone conversations to help Ryan to meet many ladies. Ryan does not want to meet several ladies, he wants to meet one woman at a time, to write one woman at a time. There are many men like this Quick Fix who prefer to meet only one woman at a time, to correspond with one woman 5000 miles away and meet her some 6 to 8 months later. Ryan is one of these guys.

Now, if you want to read a story that you swear is not true, has a lot of holes in it, looks funny, and could fool a vet, a story YOU would say is not true, but IS, then I suggest you go back and read Ryan's "true" trip report!

... in response to It is so true that...., posted by Jack on Nov 26, 2002

I have no doubt that Ryan is a real person and I have no doubt that he is over there in Russia.
The rest of the letter reads, at least to me, as someone who is trying to justify his way of doing things.
I have been to Russia many times myself and I have met many girls families and I have never been witness to anyone handling himself like her father and also the way his girl spent all this money with no concern to re-imbursements until the end. Even if she was head or heels in love with Ryan, financially speaking she would not be able to accomplish all that spending. Unless daddy is a mafia chief, it ain't happening,,,,,,,sorry.
The only place he will be meeting this girl in May will be in his dreams ( or maybe St.Pete's Florida)

... in response to Re: It is so true that...., posted by Quick Fix on Nov 26, 2002

Quick Fix,

 Of course the letter reads as someone who is justifying his way of doing things. Most of us write that way. The  happily married man who went the 'write one, visit one'  route is going to write and comment in such ways that justifies his needs where as the happily married guys who were fortunate to have meet several Russian ladies before making there choice, are going to recommend and speak highly of meeting more than one or two ladies before making such an important life choice.  The man who is happily married to a Russian woman with an age difference of  7 years is going to recommend and advise of smaller age difference's just as the guy who is 27 years older than his child bride will say any age is possible. Ryan believes in his heart today it is true love. Nothing anyone says on this discussion board is going to change these feelings and they shouldn't. Ryan is very open with what he is doing and shares much with his P-L family because he knows he will get a great deal of good advice although he will have to read thru all the B.S. that will come along with it.

 Quick Fix, as someone like yourself who has been to Russia several times and met many ladies, I for one am somewhat shocked that you never saw any lady who would spend that type of money with no concern for re-imbursement until the end. I guess if you only met four or five ladies you may not have seen this, but surely if you got to see and know 40, 50 ladies for example, you should have seen this type of woman some 30 times. They really do exist Quick Fix, I am blessed to have met many such women.

  Russian family's and friends do pool there money for such important events. I can almost assure you that several individuals contributed to Ryan's lady having the money to get to Moscow. This is a common occurrence with many good Russian people and communities. I personally was glad to read some of these seemingly little things in Ryan's report.

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Nov 27, 2002

I never saw and met a lot more than 50 women. I have met hundreds. So has my best friend so was engaged twice and never came close to seeing it.
So I doubt it happens.
Happy Thanksgiving!!

... in response to (*/*), posted by Jack on Nov 27, 2002

Jack, your first paragraph is a very valuable bit of thinking.  I think it is a classic and you should repost as an original post so it doesn't get lost down here.

However, I must say that I really haven't experienced the situation where a lady was offering to put out some money up front.  Most just didn't seem to have zilch and, interestingly, the few that did earn considerably more than average were the ones who were most greedy about spending my money.

JR

... in response to Re: It is so true that...., posted by Quick Fix on Nov 26, 2002

[This message has been edited by Ryan]

It is so funny reading your point of view.  I for one cannot believe it myself if I have not truly lived it.  Now I in no way feel I have to justify myself with you as I am simply writing the facts as they happened.  If you don't believe it then don't read it...  But for you feel that her father that smiled at me and shook my hand was strange?  You felt that a woman that works two jobs and makes approx. $100 U.S. a month while living at home spending little to no money can't afford spending maybe 5000 rubels on me?  Or that she can purchase all flight tickets and then I pay her back?  Look Russia is not the Ukraine these people have money they live real good with everything we have and from what I see without the need to worry about every little penny of their money like most of us here in the states do....

... in response to Re: Re: It is so true that...., posted by Ryan on Nov 27, 2002

Ryan,
You have to understand how some of these Russians work things out when they need money.  They have a little support group going when they need extra cash.  Family and friends are usually ready to step up with a short term loan on a moments notice.  Not for frivilous purchases,but important ones.  I wouldn't be surprised if she floated a little short term loan to cover your costs until you reimbursed her.  Of course, THAT too would be none of your business.  LOL.
KenC

... in response to one thing, Ryan, posted by KenC on Nov 27, 2002

I agree and I am sure that is how it happened.  When we were going off to Moscow her mother asked her daughter if she needed some money.  She said no that she had enough, taking about 4000 rubels out of her pocket....

... in response to Take it easy now, posted by Jack on Nov 25, 2002

I'm busy enough with my own pre-teens. --smile--

Shaking My Head (also) in Denver,

- Dan

... in response to He Can Be *Your* "Teenage Son"..., posted by Dan on Nov 25, 2002

...especially for a Texan ;-)  

There be some head shakin goin on here also, but not nearly as much as over those age related posts!

... in response to Well said. . ., posted by LP on Nov 25, 2002

LP,
Hell, those age related posts had ME shaking my head too!  There was a time here that the post would be skewed exactly opposite from what they were now.
KenC

... in response to LOL, posted by KenC on Nov 25, 2002

Regarding the age related posts, I would think the two of you had enough clout and extra goodwill built up that you could be a little more forceful in your comments on that topic.

JR

... in response to Ken and LP, posted by juio99 on Nov 26, 2002

JR,
The truth of the matter is the age difference totally depends on the couple.  Most couples couldn't survive a very large age difference but there are exceptions to that too.  I personally went to  good friends of mine to ask their advice.  He was 25 years older than his wife of 18 years.  Both are Americans and about the happiest and most romatic couple I know.  They both told me that the age difference was never a problem for them.  
-
It does take a unique couple to pull it off though.  The man has to be very secure in himself and they have to be truly in love.  How do you test that?  Sh!t, I dunno.  Lena lives a very active life, with and without me.  Frankly, after some hard days at my buisness, I just want to relax and veg.  It was no different than with my exwife that was 1 1/2 years younger than I.  The key, as I see it, is for the couple to live full and active lives seperately and together.  Each has to be an individual first and half of a couple second.
-
I think it is very ironic that LP's and my opinion on this subject are very similar.  I would never recommend a huge age difference, yet I married a woman 25 years younger.  I believe that LP would also not recommend a big age difference , but he has had long term relationships with much youger women.  Go figure.
KenC

... in response to truth is, posted by KenC on Nov 26, 2002

LP, see this is what I meant.  I knew Ken was married to a younger gal, but I also knew he was a very rational person who understood he was in a lucky position.  Not to say he and wife have not worked hard at their success, but he knows it is not something he would go around highly recommending to everyone.

So LP and Ken, I just wish you had posted more clearly under the original topic rather than having your comments buried down here.

And what is this with the other guys thinking that those who preach caution are somehow not wanting anyone to be happy.  Actually, we are most concerned that people be happy.

JR

... in response to Thanks Ken and LP, posted by juio99 on Nov 27, 2002

....95% of those who preach caution are doing it out of concern and usually, empathy. You have to always remember what kind of people make up a significant portion of MOB guys. To them, preaching caution will never be heeded because the hole in their souls yearns to be filled asap.

Until they're honest with themselves about this dirty little secret everyone knows yet no one talks about, there will always be those who respond when the nerve is touched. Especially those who know inside they might be making a mistake but don't have the fortitude to overcome the burning desire to plug that hole.

... in response to Of course...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

LP,
You hit one of the key reasons for failure in this MOB business.  AM go into it to fill the vacancy of "wife" and they do.  Whether she is right or not is secondary.  The vacancy will be filled.  The guys that are most objective in this are the one's with no burning desire to get married.  If guys would treat the agencies more as dating services rather than marriage brokers, they would be better off.  It is the forcing of marriage that doesn't sit well with me.  That goes for the women, the agencies and the INS.  All three are too quick to encourage a marriage that may not be right.  Some guys just go along for the ride and end up in a nightmare.  Ask JohnLV.
KenC

... in response to Of course...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

Glad to see you write so often, you being the biggest proponent of "caution".  When I got divorced after 7.2 years
which is right on the national average, I watched my "sweetie" turn from a loving, caring person to a lying cheating, thief, which cost me 6 figures.  My sister is a dual national, married to a Frenchman and there for 6 years,
2 kids, lots of money for a French couple and is now more French than American, and she had trouble adjusting.  Husband is a PhD and she is an artist living in Paris.  One would think it just doesn't get any better than that.  She also speaks like a native, drives a Fiat diesel car...to fast like everyone else, and exhibits the common "French road rage"...hand gestures, etc.  She has cautioned me that it was difficult for her to adjust.  Just think about someone from a totally different society, and how they would feel.  I agree.  

No matter what anyone believes or chooses to believe about adjustments to be made here, and because marriage at best is a 50-50 gamble, caution should be the word of the day.  Some will do well, others will do terribly.  

When I was 18 and working in a well drilling yard for the summer, a 22 year old I worked with was the youngest married guy I had yet met.  I asked him what married life was like.  He said, "Great for me, but it all depends on who you marry, and your attitudes toward each other."  It's still true today, as simple as he said it.

I'm much like you in that I don't have a hole to fill.  I think that I'm pretty happy as things are now, but can I make it better is what I ask.  

I even used to have some fly toys like you...a C-177, Dtype Bonanza and a 46 Ercoupe...am also an A&P so I would sell my services at a discount rate to myself.  What's your toy?
I was never home long enough to fly them, so traded them in on cars that people only dream about, which is a little safer hobby.

With so many girls to choose from, and so many unknowns, this is indeed a dangerous game to play.

Regards

... in response to Re: Of course...., posted by Globetrotter on Nov 27, 2002

...that 22 year old is today and how long he stayed married. It didn't count back then because he probaly had only a few years of marriage under his belt. I bet he was happy in a marriage so new, how could he say otherwise? The voice of youth....

A Bo and a Scarecoupe? At least it wasn't a V type Bo, those things killed a lot of people. If you weren't home to fly, how were you home to drive? After I got into motorcycles, cars were boring. After airplanes, motorcycles were boring. Be that as it may, I still own and enjoy all of them. My screw around on the weekend car is a DMC 12, everyday driver is a Turbo Supra. I was never much into ultra expensive cars, they're often lousy investments.

Fly toy? You didn't mention the plural so I'll give you my favorite: the L39. Thats the one that eats my cash and demands the most attention. And you think a Scarecoup is dangerous? ;-) Had a T210 and a 177RG for awhile also, the Cardinal RG is a nice ship.

... in response to Wonder where...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

Found the L39 Czeck Jet.  Looks like an impressive ride, and rather expensive to maintain.  I see where thousands can disappear in an afternoon, but a nice ride.

... in response to Re: Wonder where...., posted by Globetrotter on Nov 28, 2002

...great fun but eye wateringly expensive. Truth is I'm one of three guys in it and thinking of selling out.
Too rich for my blood, at least with the other toys. Amazing how friendly most people become when we bring that thing around. Great fun though, and it's been a decent investment as long as we ignore the operating costs.
(read that as a loss ;-)

... in response to Yeah....., posted by LP on Nov 28, 2002

Your oversized BD5J (with an extra seat) still sounds like fun even if a fill up costs a Gnote.

I actually toured DeLoreans plant outside Belfast in 79-80 when they were making 6-8 cars per day.  I still have the promo info given to me by the PR Mgr.  Unfortunately it's only every photocopied car article written up to that time..
plus a rather tattered black and silver folder, but you're welcome to it if you like.  Tell me how to send it and it's yours.

The plant was right on the rail right-of-way from Dublin to Belfast which makes sense, since they needed rail access for deliveries.

... in response to Some Goodies For You!!!, posted by Globetrotter on Nov 28, 2002

....BD5J? lol! Now there is a real lawn dart! I know 30,000 hour guys who've killed themselves in those things. Thats crazier than I am. Knew a guy who had one, he used to buy the mains from the hardware store. They were lawnmower tires! Lasted only a few landings. With that diameter, can you imagine the rpms on those things at a touchdown speed of about 100 knots? Yikes!

Thanks for the car stuff offer. I have all of that, although I'm not as into the car as much as others are. It's just a toy and makes me crazy just trying to keep it from exploding and burning to the ground. I once almost dropped it from a helo at an airshow, I got so pizzed at it.
Just please don't ask me about the Flux Capacitor or what happens at 88 mph, it'll be the first time I've heard that....today. ;-)

A excited kid on a bike came up to me last weekend and said "Hey! Thats the car from Back To The Future, right? Does it time travel?"

When I broke his fantasy he replied: "Oh, I'm sorry it doesn't"

I just sighed: "So am I son, so am I." ;-)

... in response to Wonder where...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

Funny enough, he's still married to the same girl, and his best friend, father to two married girls and grandpa to four.  Kind of nice to see it works out nicely for some.

Sorry, I'm out of the fly game for a time.  What's an L39?
I know Lear made a 35, as in Payne Stwart's final coffin.  You don't have a Lear as a toy do you?  Actually, when I sold my AC Cobra, could have traded even for one...but would have needed you to fly me around...and my time aint that valuable!

When I first soloed and had a "navigation memory loss" I needed to buzz the interstate to read the sign to see I was following I80 west.  A few cars probably thought they were about to get strafed.

... in response to Wonder where...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

Didn't know we had so many pilots here, hell, I'll just skip that International stuff and do sales from home here.  So which one of you pilots can I interest in a 767 Tanker Transport? :-)  Sure there would be a bit of a problem with State as its on the munitions list, but we can work that later :-)

L-39  Nice.  I'll have to settle for my rental time in whatever is cheap and has a annual :-)

... in response to Ken and LP, posted by juio99 on Nov 26, 2002

[This message has been edited by LP]

...out my current squeeze is 16 years my junior but I still don't bank on  her being around, even if I married her. I simply have too much experience with youngsters to believe otherwise. They all end up wanting someone with their own frame of reference, something even worse in a cross cultural deal. There may be varying exceptions but all the love in the world will not disarm the ticking "time" bomb. It just comes down to what the guy wants and the price he's willing to pay in the end.

Trust me, it takes looks, money, good physical condition, free travel (lol, and modesty) to keep the young ones and I won't have those things forever.

... in response to Ken and LP, posted by juio99 on Nov 26, 2002

...Me?? On here?? lol, you must be thinking of someone else!

Fact is, Ken's wife is much younger and my last live in girlfreind of 5 years was 20 years my junior. But thats not the same as marriage or 30 years difference. Differnence in age is not the same as difference in matuarity. Everything Scaught says is true, and will be magnified more by even a slighty greater age difference. It's not a linear relationship you know

The fact any rational man would argue otherwise only shows how desperate and unplanning he is. It simples has no justification at all, a terrible price to be eventually paid. Of course, that assumes a 21 year old will even stay with a 50 plus year old anyway. She's still a child and the odds are overwhemling she won't, so why argue the point?

But let them have some happiness, it's their right. However, the clock will still be still ticking. Besides, the age thing has been beaten to death before. Still, it's amazing how some will rationalize such serious issues away.

... in response to Clout?...., posted by LP on Nov 26, 2002

Hi LP

Do as I say not as I do. LOL

Notice how one can get caught up in it. You date younger women. (BTW, anything over fifteen years younger at your age is young IMHO) The point is you do it. Why do you do it? Because you are trying to punish yourself? LOL There must be a reason me thinks.

Now don't come back and say - but I am not marrying them. What is the difference if you marry them? Non really. Living with a woman for 10 years is the same as being married from a practical sense.

So, if a guy wants to be with a younger woman, as long as he is willing to accept the fact that at some point he is going to be affected by age to a point that his lady is going to feel trapped as a care giver, if she hangs around that long, and will need to move on - then what is the big deal?

When I pay for a wonderful vacation, I know that it is going to end. Would I go again? You bet. It is life. There is no guarantee with anything period nodda.

If the wonderful times that will not last are important enough for a guy to justify the chances she will leave him in time - then he got what he wanted. Hey even people who are the same age usually have to deal with the grief of losing their mate. It is inevitable. It is just that in this case everyone knows the likely outcome as it will unfold as to who is going to be the first to go. So, nothing is really going to change the way that I see it.

When she leaves you, you can always find a mate - you do not have to be alone - just not with a young one at that point perhaps.

But heck, at that point - perhaps all a guy wants is good company where the attitude and intellectual aspects take priority over youth and sex.  

What about the younger lady? She knew what she was getting into. Time heals most things.

Me, would I do it? Sure

And, there are marriages that last under these circumstances. I know a couple right now in my area where he is old and she is young. She loves this guy immensely - 20 year difference.

... in response to practice what you preach - takes new mea..., posted by thesearch on Nov 26, 2002

nt

... in response to practice what you preach - takes new mea..., posted by thesearch on Nov 26, 2002

Hi Doc....

There IS a difference by not marrying them, an enormous difference. We have made no commitment to the long haul, it's only a day by day thing. I have *no* plans to allow this relationship to effect me down the road, when age will matter. In fact, the idea of marriage bothers me period, thats what seperates me from these guys. I'll deal with it when the times comes and when I do, it won't be with a large age difference. I'm having my cake now, I'll settle down proper later. Not the usual way but thats how it's worked out thus far. Whats wrong with that? Besides, comparing 20 years to 30 is apples to oranges.

As I've told you before, I've never looked to "date" younger women, thats just how it has worked out. I've no problem with it, believe me. But thats a far cry from saying until death do us part. I've paid the price several times for "dating" younger women, *thats* why I know. It's simply been my experience, maybe you missed that. Thank God I didn't marry any of them or I'd be in a world of hurt now. And the price I've paid would pale compared to bill come due down the road in such a marraige.

No thanks, you're welcome to it. Maybe thats why I feel marriage is futile when dealing with 20 years or more difference. Get some experience just with this, without marriage, then come back and we'll talk. It cuts many ways you know, often not at all what many guys imagine it to be. Trust me, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. But it's acceptable as long as marriage (along with the legal and financial problems) is avoided. If so, it can be a pretty sweet deal until the bill comes due. (and it will come due.)

So ff you examine it closely you'll see marriage has a *great* deal to do with it. And I tire of pointing out the here and now has little bearing on these deals, it's the future thats the issue. If a guy agrees to pay the price, I say go for it. The problem is most guys give no thought of whats to come and hide their heads in the present.

... in response to Sorry..., posted by LP on Nov 26, 2002

Hey LP,

We are in total agreement actually. No doubt that marriage, if it goes wrong, can be expensive. Does not have to be that way if done correctly but, there is still that door open that usually remains closed with the simple breaking up that takes place with a girl friend. Not to mean that such is always simple but in comparison to the ordeal that marriage/attorneys/courts/thelegalmaze will walk you through - it is simple.

I remember when KenC came to the conclusion in his head, if I read him right, that you were more into dating than finding a wife. However, I subtlety had the thought that this FSU thing with marriage being the only realistic option --- got you LP to thinkin --- and LP found out he was not AS ready to get married as he thought might be the case. Just my call on things from your posts.

Yea, I know you are going to come back with saying you would get married if the right one came along - and I am sure you would but, and this is a big BUT ----  the point is, the more ready a guy is to get married the more likely the lady comes along if you get my drift. I mean sometimes a guy is so ready -- it simply becomes the next woman to give him some special attention. :))

I guess you could say that the less inclined one is for getting married, the higher the bench mark goes up for what is acceptable for the I do's. So, LP is going to put the benchmark high enough that it will simply take longer, as more women will have to cross your path, before you are motivated.

Now, of course, as you get older the equation changes. Your desirability will drop with the ladies as you age and unless your bank account accumulates at a faster pace then your wrinkles and all the other good stuff that the future promises, one finds not uncommonly that the benchmark starts to drop and when you get to the point that all you want is company to sit beside you in your rocking chair - well he11, all the old criteria used to choose a lady gets turned upside down.

So, my call, LP ain't gettin married until several more used calendars get thrown in the trash. Note, I did not say when you are in that there rockin chair. LOL

Not pickin on you. There is nutin wrong with that approach. Everyone finds what works best for them.

Just playin wit ya.

... in response to i dunna think so, posted by thesearch on Nov 26, 2002

...most of that is dead on. You're a little confused though. I'll get married when the time is right. I brought an FSU chick here and didn't because of two "problems":

1) Something far better came along that I didn't have to risk everything on, something that was more in line with what I'm used to.

2) I resent the gum'mint telling me I have to marry someone in 30 days, I'll marry when I'm good and ready.

Why there has to be any "I dos" at all is what amuses me in the first place. If one is aiming to start a family, fine. Or if one is simply not able, not confident, or for any other numerous reasons unable to attract the alternative to marriage, fair nuff. But being married is not all it's cracked up to be and doesn't mean one can't have the exact same benefits without the possible hassles. Again, it's all I've known. Dating? Hardly.

You be right about sumthin else, it takes more than a little attention, beauty, or "Russianess" to win me over. After all, it's been a very long time since I was married and those years since have been pretty sweet. It's all I've known, so try not to lump me in with many of these guys.

If I was into dating I would have taken a revolving door policy. Instead, I've had longer monogamous relationships than many guys here have marraiges. In fact, longer than any guy here married to a R/W...by far. Doesn't sound like dating to me, sounds more like having my cake and eating it too. I like younger women, who doesn't? But marry one? No chance, walk a mile in my shoes and you'll understand.

The fact is most MOB guys are, as you correctly point out, quite "ready" to get married for reasons we all know about. (Some of the responses to Scaught's post make that very clear.) Leave me out of that group please. And when the time comes when all I want is someone to sit next to my rockin chair, it won't be someone very junior but at least she'll be there. I'm willing to bet thats better odds than 98% of 50 year olds who marry a 25 year old will have. They'll end up just like I will, with someone closer to their age. Of course, that'll be after *someone* involved pays the previous debt due.

Or they'll die alone. Ponder that for awhile.

What does this all have to do with marrying someone 25 or 30 years your junior? Maybe nothing. But I still maintain anyone who does so is living in the present and will very likely pay some form of heavy price, either in the near or distant future. Take it from someone who has had all the benefits, it ain't worth it.

... in response to Can't argue....., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

LP,
I understand that you "logically" believe that someday you will trade up (down?) to woman close to your age, but that will never happen.  You only have relationships with younger women.  You are only attracted to younger women.  One of them (hopefully) will eventually steal your heart.  Just for sh!ts & grins, at what age will you throw the switch and settle down with a woman your age?  At 60?  At 70?  Sorry, skyboy, it aint gonna happen.  Just remember that at 70, a young "hottie" will be 50 too.  Tigers hardly ever lose their stripes.  LOL.
KenC

... in response to I think you are wrong, posted by KenC on Nov 27, 2002

....you're probally right of course. But the very great difference is that "youngster" will be far more likely to hang around *then*, than if I marry her now.

It IS ironic that you and I both don't recommend younger women. My reasons are obvious, I've had enough experience with them to be very gun shy about longevity past 5 years or so. Why are you against it? I think it's because you clearly understand how the risk rachets up as the delta increases. Why you fail to apply that logic to your own situation is interesting, but understandable. ;-)

Remember, 3 years isn't much. Even most marriages to A/W last that long. Ever heard of the 7 year itch? Imho, betting a large age delta marriage will last 20 years or longer is wildly optimistic. Even if it does, there are many practical problems that simply can't be resolved. Add in the cross cultural aspects and the risk is over the top for someone like me.  

It's all way to risky for me, I can have the same benefits without the associated risks and wait until later to level the playing field. As for the attitude that the years before such a marriage dies are worth it, the guy involved will have much more to lose after those years and everything lost will be harder to get back.

It's not black and white, depends on the age the marriage occcurs. 20/40 has less of a chance to work than 40/60. But when people state that 20/50 or even 20/60 is workable, they fail to consider how the odds go down. They also usually fail to consider all the intricacies of what the future will bring, basing their decisions solely on emotional involvement in the present.

Btw, I'm the one doing the heart stealing these days. ;-)

... in response to lol...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

LP,
You ask why I wouldn't recommend a big age dif.  Frankly, most guys would be so overwhelmed by a young hottie that they wouldn't be able to see ANYTHING straight.  They would believe anything the youngster told them and not even attempt to look for trap doors.  The fantasy wouldn't last for very long.  
-
I kind of backed into my relationship with my wife.  I KNEW she was way too young.  I KNEW it wouldn't last long.  I KNEW there would be major land mines that would scuttle the relationship.  I, like you, figured what the hell, enjoy it while it lasts.  A funny thing happened to throw all that logic out the window: I fell deeply in love with her.  But even MORE important, she convinced me that she was deeply in love with me.  Maybe she was dropped on her head as a child, but I believe her.  I know that 3 years aint squat.  But I also know what we have and it is strong and true.  Be careful, it may happen to you too.
KenC

... in response to we're both full of it, posted by KenC on Nov 27, 2002

LP & KenC:

Great exchange reading both of you banter.  I hope all else heve read the exchange...so true, so true!!!

... in response to lol...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

I think you are being a little TOO analytical about it, to the point of shutting yourself out of possibilities.  You need to be a little more flexible...even old guys like you can revise their thinking!

... in response to While I don't disagree with the gist of ..., posted by Stevo on Nov 27, 2002

...According to your profile, I'm younger than you Sport. The only possibility I'm shutting myself out of is the risk of financial ruin. Otherwise I have everything you do, it remains debatable who has the best deal ;-)

... in response to Old guys???...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2002

.

... in response to Ken and LP, posted by juio99 on Nov 26, 2002

and if I'm not mistaken Ken is married to one of those pretty young fillies that so concern the age police. (May God have mercy upon his soul.)

... in response to Re: Re: Trip Report --  Russia in Novemb..., posted by Quick Fix on Nov 25, 2002

Ryan has been around here a long time.

JR