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I have been writing a a women in Russia for the last two years. I have been to her hometown (small city 400 Km from Moscow) twice and each time spent time with her and parents. She is a professional, a career type woman which is fine with me.

Last summer we spent two weeks in Spain and France driving around in a rented car and visiting the local sights. We had a good time. For a few days during our trip  I did take her shopping and I spent about $500.00 on her for various clothes items in France (my thinking is that it is just part of the trip). However, I did notice she did shop for price and value,often getting things in the small discount shops.And,  she would always ask if she could get something and If I said no it was too expensive and not a good value, she would not complain.

I have started the K1 process in August. I was not in a big hurry and she seemed happy in Russia. We seem to have been caught up in the recent mess at the immigration department, and she is becoming somewhat impatient.Lately she has insisted that she would like to have copies of all of the papers that I have filed with the INS for the K1.It seems that she does not believe that it is taking so long.She mentioned that she was on the computer reading the RW's side of this process and some of their horror stories.

Because she has a close friend who is also in the K1 process and that friend recieved copies of everything in cluding tax returns from her man(she had the interview by herself), now my lady wants copies of all documents that I have sent the INS along with the papers and tax returns that I will be submitting in the future to Moscow embassy. In the past I have never promised her anything except a good life in LA and to give her an opportunity to go back to school to see if she can get her medical license here.(she does not work as physician in Russia). I make low six figure income,house in the hills.etc. etc.

I was just wondering what were the thoughts of some of the board members.Is she just nervous after reading horror stories on the internet or is she only concerned about how much I make?

Would appriciate imput from guys who have already been through this process and knows the reaction of the RW's on a first hand bases.The RW's ability to understand fiancial data.

... in response to What is your take and your suggestions?, posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

FWIW I sent copies of my paperwork to my lady. I had no problem
with this for many reasons. It sounds as though you spent a
good amount of time with her. Didn't you sit and talk to her
about your income and expenses? I did this when I made the
decision that she was the one. Early in the relationship when
I visited I told her I live about the same as her. She lives
about the same lifestyle as me, but of course I have a washer,
dryer, and dishwasher. Oh forgot about the 15 YO truck and 12
YO car.

She will want to read what you sent to the INS. She wants to
be able to answer any question they throw at her. Mine was
asked over 20 questions and all were about me, sooo if you
didn't talk all about yourself or they ask a question about
a certain area that you didn't talk about, but wrote in the
paperwork it could cause problems.

If you don't send the tax forms and finacial forms atleast
write what you do for a living, how long just so she can
answer those questions. I don't think they will ask about how
much you make as I haven't read/heard where any lady was asked
this.

Some example questions they could ask:

Do you (meaning her) speak English? She speaks Enlish fair
and was asked questions in English. Yes she stumbled through
some, but the lady in Warsaw was quite nice.

Was your fiancee married before?
Does he have any childern?

Did he stay with you when he visited? I did and was written
and sent with INS forms.

What city does he live in?

How long have you known each other?

Does he phone you?

Does he speak Russian? I know a small amount which will change
soon as she is determind to teach me. Hey when she tells you
she loves to hear you speak Russian to her with that sweet
inviting voice....I need say nothing more.  8-)

I'd say anything in the forms and in the letter describing
your relationship they could ask in a question. IMHO

Regards,
Bruce S

... in response to What is your take and your suggestions?, posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

Watcher,
Now is not the time to be fence sitting.  Make her feel comfortable with the process the best you can.  Just remember that any rumor from any Russian will hold more credibility than any amount of facts offered by you.  Russians are most gullible to any "heresay" they come across.
KenC

... in response to are you in or out?, posted by KenC on Nov 17, 2002

One of the most aggrevating issues I have with my wife is her tendency to believe what she has heard from other Russian women instead of the facts I get.  Just yesterday, for example, I downloaded the INS guide to naturalization and was explaining something to her.  She responded that she had gotten conflicting information from her Russian friend, Elena.  I explained that I was reading to her directly from the document.  She responded that Elena's friend was married to a man who was high up in the local INS office. (I made the horrible mistake of blurting "That doesn't make Elena an expert").

This is the way Russian women are.  They network like crazy and take the word of their friends, especially if they've been through the process.  That's how they survived in a government that so well understood control by lack of knowledge and it has become inherent to their culture.

I am sure Watcher's fiancee is feeling peer pressure.

... in response to Re: are you in or out?, posted by John F on Nov 17, 2002

feel bad! I had the exact same problem with my former (West) German wife. She would believe lady friends but NOT me! The situation you identify is not unique to Russian women!

... in response to What is your take and your suggestions?, posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

As the other posters below have suggested, you need to send her the information for two reasons:  1)  She may need the information at her interview as well as to track the progress and 2) regrettably, in every town and village in the FSU there seems to be a woman who has been burned by a man who promises to send in the K-1 paperwork and gets cold feet.  She just wants some reassurance.  She is anxious, nervous and excited and needs your support.  So send her everything ASAP via express mail.  And call her and tell her its own the way.

... in response to What is your take and your suggestions?, posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

I gave all the info to my darling right after we started the paperwork. I thought she had to have it because (1) she needed to know about my finances since her existence would at first be totally depending on me, and (2) she needed it to prepare for the interview.

If you don't want to provide every page of your tax return, just go to your local INS bureau and they'll printout on the spot (at least here) a one page summary of the taxes you paid-- one page per year. You could give her this.

I get the impression from her reaction that she is getting a little suspicious of you and this is fueled by (1) internet chat board horror stories-- the flip side of what we also hear on this board all the time, (2) her not receiving information she preceives that she needs from you, and (3) perhaps sensing some reluctance on your part to provide her with information (which may be in turn be fueled by your suspicions of her).

I think you can see that mistrust is a cycle that doesn't take much to start, and even escalate. Also, I think you can see how poisonous mistrust can be. You must know her pretty well after two years. If you want her, I suggest at this time you focus on being understanding and supportive and clearly show your love. She will need even more of this once she is here. If you can't do that, moving forward seems premature and you might want more time together, which could build up more mutual understanding and trust.

... in response to What is your take and your suggestions?, posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

As best you can - and then ask yourself; "How would I feel if I were in her position?"

Of course she is anxious over the long and inexplicable delays in Moscow. Of course she has a *right* (IMHO) to see the documents that you possess that her future hinges upon.

Speaking ONLY from my perspective - if you are hesitant to provide her these documents - to provide her some peace of mind - then I don't think you are even close to ready to make a commitment to her or to bring her here on a K-1. I am, of course, presuming that you are planning a future together - though your comment about "never promised her anything . . ." clouds that point for me.

If your concern is about her ability to understand financial data, there was a thread on this board a few weeks ago in which a Financial document to explain western conditions was posted - in both Russian and English. You might get that and send it to her and then open a dialogue.

FWIW

- Dan

... in response to Put Yourself in Her 'Shoes' . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 17, 2002

Hey Dan,

This post is not neccessarily directed at you but I felt like it would fit at this point in the thread and is really directed to the board at large.

I agree that the man should provide copies of the k-1 documents to the fiance, but do you really think it is wise to give the lady copies of tax returns? Something tells me that that is not a good idea. I can only speak for myself and I for one would never do it. I wouldn't do it for an AW either. For some men it could be inviting a problem.

Moreover, FSUW have no concept of what a dollar means here, much less the details of the ordinary costs of living thereby  adding confusion to what the dollar figure appearing on a tax return really means.

I think it is best to keep such things private. No woman, FSUW or AW, needs copies of a man's tax returns. There is no legitimate reason for it. If the woman actually comes over, marries the man and things go as they should, then the lady will naturally learn over time what a man has earned in the past. Until then I feel that it is none of her business. If a woman insisted on knowing I would question her sincerity.

I think that the woman should be satisfied with the man's promise that he can support her in a fashion that is at least greater than her native standard of living and by American standards solidly middle class (which in itself would take a lot of explaining). I think that that is fair and reasonable and sufficient. If the woman really loves the man she will be satisfied with this promise and explanation.

My two Southern rubles.

Best regards.

WmGOsaynototaxreturns

... in response to Re: Tax Returns Nyet, posted by WmGo on Nov 17, 2002

As I recall, tax returns are not filed with the K-1 papers and are not required to obtain the K-1 visa.  I did not show tax returns until the AOS interview.

... in response to Re: Re: Tax Returns Nyet, posted by Charles on Nov 18, 2002

You will need to give her tax returns for the interview if you are self-employed.

... in response to Re: Re: Tax Returns Nyet, posted by Charles on Nov 18, 2002

That's good to know.
Thanks

... in response to Re: Tax Returns Nyet, posted by WmGo on Nov 17, 2002

found a wife yet? Have you been over to the FSU lately or.... do you still have cold feet and sitting on the fence??

... in response to WmGo......... have you, posted by MtMav on Nov 18, 2002

Well I have never had "cold feet" about anything. I am still looking - both here and there. Been over to FSU many times - three times to Ukraine, three times to Russia and once to Latvia. Now that doesn't sound like "fence sitting" does it?

God is in control!

... in response to Re: ....... have you, posted by WmGo on Nov 18, 2002

you need to sit him down and have a little chat with him :)

... in response to perhaps , posted by thesearch on Nov 19, 2002

Yeah, I tell Him everyday that I am ready. He keeps saying "wait on me". I keep responding "But I am ready" and on and on :)

... in response to Re: ....... have you, posted by WmGo on Nov 18, 2002

like "fence sitting" but it certainly IS a classic case of "cold feet" ......... 7 trips and no results???? Might be time to "s__t or get off the pot."

... in response to You're right. Certainly does not sound , posted by MtMav on Nov 19, 2002

[This message has been edited by WmGo]

That sounds like the mentality of someone who is desperate or foolish. I am neither.

FYI Most of my trips to Russia and Ukraine were on the same venture, not separate journeys. And I have interests there that extend far beyond merely looking for a bride.

Not that I owe you or anyone else an explanation ( I don't - I am my own chief), I will say that I have been considering making a long post on my observations and conclusions about the FSU and FSUW. I think that I am just about as knowledgeable as any man can be, particularly given the fact that I have established a lot of permanent friendships and contacts there (both natives and Westerners that reside there), I am a life long student of Russian and European history, and I track the news there on a daily basis. But I am a private person so I am still debating myself. If you search the archives you will discover that I have shared some of these experiences/conclusions a long time ago. Suffice it to say that it is very difficult to just go to another country, spend a few weeks and find your soulmate. I am convinced that without aid from the Upper Force it cannot happen. And please note that I didn't say "wife"; I said "soulmate". Yes, it is very easy to marry the wrong person, especially if someone is desperate or foolish. But it is quite a different thing to find one's "other half". I for one won't "settle". I just don't believe in it. I think it is selling oneself short - and being dishonest with the other party.

Life is short.

Eternity is forever.

WmGO

P.S. MtMav, what is your experience there? I am sorry but I am not familiar.

... in response to Re: You're right. , posted by WmGo on Nov 19, 2002

Hey William
I wonder at times, if people really do have any clue as to the virtues of patience. I think not LOL ! You are so correct, why settle for anything with which you can NOT make, a moral, legal and binding contract with for life.

Your post reminded me of one RW who had this to say on her site........and from a Russian Woman, a REAL one ...

"God created some human being , breathed the soul into It , then divided it by two halves and threw them about different continents . Since both of these halves roam about the world seeking and calling each other. Unfortunately, one half of a soul does not always find the other one . In this case they both don ' t feel themselves happy in a full measure and a dim melancholy harasses them because of something unrealised . So it is very important that two halves of one soul could find each other . Then a person lives in a harmony with himself and with all the world .

This is why I am looking for that one and only man on the Earth  who we shall be happy together with . This is the reason why I have placed my ad at this agency".

And that came from a RW who knew the virtues of patience! PITY THEY WERENT ALL LIKE HER. She said  "...very important that ........"

I wonder what percentage of Men on this board have experienced what her, and the rest of us are not prepared to risk, for the sake of a few years of what *they* call 'bliss'?

Isnt it amazing how these same Men, would probably make a business contract involving the almighty $, and as soon as one or either party defaults, they are prepared to use every power and tool available to bring about conformity. Yet, when it comes to an even greater promise, one made previously to another person, and in writing, and one that they have previously acknowledged as the "One & Only",and which requires personal commitment & honesty; demonstrates to me that they have their priorities @.. up big time!

However, to those who have benefited from their past, I wish them the very best that life can bring and with their RW. Now that COULD be bliss!

I for one wont be puting one foot forward in a hurry, only to take ten steps backward just years down the road. If only Men would realize the economic and social burdens that their impatience has placed upon society, they might start thinking with the correct head.

Reminds me of the Parable of the sower .....
and bring forth fruit with patience!!!

Hey, see you down south, maybe mid next year WmGo. And, if you happeen to be tied up with other interests, I will understand. Like you, there are some priorities to attend to. I keep saying, the further I go down the road as a bachelor (in more ways than one), make the best of it, "Cause it ain't gonna last forever Mate" !!

Good luck to all
JohnL

... in response to Re: You're right. , posted by WmGo on Nov 19, 2002

Thanks everyone for all of the impute. I have sent my full tax information as she asked for."WmGo" I would indeed be interested is a long post on some of your thoughts and experiences. I for one,  am getting somewhat tired of the "I got approved at last" type of posts. I think that many of us that "watch" this forum would like the thoughts and experiences of the more seasoned members.

... in response to Re: Tax Returns Nyet, posted by WmGo on Nov 17, 2002

WlmGo,

As far being satisfied with a "promise", keep in mind that a common problem for RW is having the AM make, but not keep (and in reality not being any position to keep), those promises.  In addition, if someone reviews your tax returns and concludes there is a problem, perhaps it might be better to discuss it and figure out if there really is one before going through the rest of the K-1 process?

If all goes according to plan, the fiancee is going to have to sign a joint tax return in the near future, this cherished privacy will have to come to an end in any event.  Unless of course your wife is comfortable signing things without looking at them.

Steve M

... in response to Re: Re: Tax Returns Nyet, posted by SteveM on Nov 18, 2002

[This message has been edited by WmGo]

Steve,

By "problem" I was referring to men who have large incomes. Some women, both foreign and domestic, only want a man for what he has. I try to avoid this type of woman.

My mom has signed the tax return prepared by my father for 42 years and never once looked over it. But then, their's is a different time, a different era...

Regards from the South.

WmGO

... in response to Re:Tax Returns , posted by WmGo on Nov 18, 2002

Sorry,

Didn't think about this case.  The usual problem is the AM having less resources than he promises, not more.  On the other hand, if she is already interested in marrying you before she sees the tax returns, it will be a pleasant surprise.

I do agree (without personal experience, unfortunately) that having a very high income may pose a challenge, because there is definitely a "kid in the candy shop" reaction that hits upon coming to America.  In my case it was somewhat limited because my wife had already worked in Tokyo several times.

The only pointer I could offer is to spend the first few months doing as much education as possible about how to save money by not buying things on sight.  Once I got my wife well-versed in coupons, sales, Walmart, Home Depot, etc., she has turned out to be terrific in the not paying too much department.

Along the same lines, you can minimize the hit by doing somethings yourself.  Get dental work and vaccines done at a good private clinic in Russia before she comes over.  Do the visa filing yourself instead of paying a lawyer.  If you don't have kids in the picture, find good vacation deals ahead of time.

About clothes shopping, I can tell you nothing.  My wife's 50 percent of the closet is growing larger by the month; the only advise is to find her nice stores that are not too outrageously priced.

... in response to Put Yourself in Her 'Shoes' . . ., posted by Dan on Nov 17, 2002

Dan ...Thanks.  I just meant that I would provide a normal enviroment to live and not a Beverly Hills type life.Could you please tell me where to find the document. Every time I try to do a search on this site I get an "Error message" that I am trying to search outside of the board.

Watcher

... in response to Re: Put Yourself in Her 'Shoes' . . ., posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

Watcher ,
I think this is what Dan was referring to . I think that it was originally written and posted by Del , and then reposted by request by Zink . It was a very well written post that explains some of those differences that you're talking about , well worth a read .

Dan , if I'm wrong , please feel free to correct me on this .

It's in the archives on page 192 , or here's the link to Zink's post :

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/archives/display.php?archive=000192&id=7831

don

... in response to Re: Re: Put Yourself in Her 'Shoes' . . ..., posted by don1 on Nov 17, 2002

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/archives/display.php?archive=000192&id=78316

Don - for some reason, your link missed the '6' at the end.

This first link is for the Russian version.

The following link is for the English version - so that you can understand and discuss what you have sent her --smile--.

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/archives/display.php?archive=000192&id=78315

And for the record - all credit goes to Del (from this board) for taking the time and effort to assemble this document.

- Dan

... in response to Re: Re: Put Yourself in Her 'Shoes' . . ..., posted by don1 on Nov 17, 2002

[This message has been edited by rojak]

I'm unable to access the post. I get:
"The date array was not set for index 7831 in archive data000192.php"

... in response to What is your take and your suggestions?, posted by Watcher on Nov 17, 2002

When the lady goes for the interview in Moscow, she will need to know what you do for a living and what your income is.  This is a standard question for the embassy to ask to evaluate how close the couple is.  Sending her all the paper work now doesn't seem to be much of a problem so I don't see why you're hesitating.

Some of the Russian women's boards are quite pointed about some of the experiences that K-1 fiancees have had.  They love to exchange the details and linger on the "horror" stories.  The success stories usually don't get posted or aren't as interesting.  My wife reads the stories for hours, laughs and has a great time.

IMHO