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Hello All,

Thanks for your comments and thoughts!  

Just to update you.

My lady in Ukraine did got her US visa.  She faxed a copy to me and also kenC, you are right, my situation is totally different as I looked at it from your viewpoint.  Since she will be living here in the US potentially, she needs to know what kind of life she will be having and that is the reason why I wanted her to come to the US.  Of course, nothing is sure, but at least I and she will get to see it.

As for the ticket situation, she got her ticket but she agreed to pay for it in advance 100% and I just reimburse her once she comes.  I asked her where she got the money and she borrowed it from her best friend.

On the phone this morning, she sounded not so happy with me...:-( I told her that hopefully she understands why I said such things given the situation with Scammers.  she said, "okay, but i never would have thought all along that you never believed in me, Lets not talk about this till we meet..."  Yup, before she used to text me everyday but not today :-(

Gosh, did I blew it guys it with my not too-trusting attitude, perhaps the lady (ONE) I am looking for?  Hopefully this is just temporary :-)))

Again, guys, if you know any place where I can purchase a discount RT originating in Dnepro to US here in America, let me know.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

Your really taking the guys for a ride on this one.

Lucky you, your marrying the a politican from Ukraine.
Going to visit our congress.

If she is really coming over on a business Visa, don't ya think the Ukrainian government is going to pick up the tab or whichever political organization.

Heeeeeelllllllllloooooooo.

Great copy, keep up the great storyline.

... in response to Re: This is a great gag........., posted by wsbill on Nov 6, 2002

And your going to fly her over here after she has swallowed about 1/2 dozen condoms filled with high grade heroin.

Once it comes out she calls her contact and she's long gone.
(Do you think this could happen ?)

... in response to Re: Your luck... she's a model type, posted by wsbill on Nov 6, 2002

Bill,
You are not making sense AGAIN.
KenC

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

Bruce, my Dnipro. Ukr. wife of 2 1/2 years and I have read the posts relating to your issues, and we both feel that you haven't got a prayer of making this go anywhere...No disrespect, but the fact that you are so quick to question her sincerity probably dooms this from the outset. This whole venture requires one to just swallow hard and "go for it." Either you will win, or lose. But if you go in thinking that someone is out to "get you", you probably will fail. One wonders if you have a hard time trusting people, here or there...IMHO...

... in response to Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by rojak on Nov 5, 2002

Rojak, I am having a hard time believing that you actually wrote this.  Excuse me, but if all the guys here followed your advice, wouldn't all of us be taken big time by the first scammer that came by?  Also how can you criticize this guy for having some questions ("having a hard time trusting," in your words) about someone who he has never met?

I don't think he thinks she is 'out to get' him.  He just wants to be cautious.  Sounds like a good plan to me.

But you can bet that almost every other woman of all creeds, colors and nationalities agrees with your wife.  Just read any of the posts here and on other sites from the ladies.  They are mostly pure romantics and don't want to hear the guys talk any practicalities.  They are looking for the white knight in shinning armor for sure.

JR

... in response to Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by rojak on Nov 5, 2002

The gospel according to Rojack:

This whole venture requires one to just swallow hard and "go for it." Either you will win, or lose.

I have to agree with you there.  However, when one has reason not to trust the other party, they should just walk away rather than go for it.

... in response to Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by rojak on Nov 5, 2002

Rojak,
In your post you say-

"the fact that you are so quick to question her sincerity probably dooms this from the outset"

Well, he has never met the girl before, has been writing to her for only 3 months...  What man in his right mind would NOT question things???  
I think it would be doomed not for questioning her sincerity but because he has not gone there to meet her and look into her life!  To just send for a woman you have never met to me is crazy, just like in the movie "Birthday Girl" with Nicole Kidman..

... in response to Re: Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part ..., posted by Oscar on Nov 5, 2002

....that any different than sending for one you met only one time for maybe a week? After all, lots of guys here have done that. ;-)

... in response to How is...., posted by LP on Nov 5, 2002

With all your experience, you would ask how it is different??

Well, if you see her there, you can see how she lives, where she lives, what kind of job she actually has, see her place of work.  You can meet her family and then her friends and find out how they truly feel about her.  You can determine how she is with money there, if she has a bloody boyfriend or not, just find out if her life is truly legit!  And yes, if you ask the right questions, you can find this out in 2 or 3 weeks there.  You can also find out if you actually have any chemistry in person, as we both know that phone and internet chemistry does not always translate into real chemistry..  Bring her here, sight unseen so she can check out your "lifestyle" and see if THAT is what she wants instead of you??  No thanks!  

Bringing her here sight unseen, first, you may find in the first 30 minutes that there is zero chemistry!  If that is so, a 2 week visit can be an excrutiating experience!  At least there, you can thank her for her time and move on to a backup..
But as far as being able to see any of the rest of her life, she could be lying her fanny off and you would never know, because you have never been there, seen her life there, checked it out for yourself..  
Anyone can be on their "best behavior" on a vacation with zero stress!

That is the difference I see and I think it is very significant.  I would NEVER do it..

... in response to LP, I'm surprised at you!  ;-), posted by Oscar on Nov 6, 2002

...I ain't swallowin it. ;-)

While of your logic seems impeccable, it's flawed.

"Well, if you see her there, you can see how she lives, where she lives, what kind of job she actually has, see her place of work. You can meet her family and then her friends and find out how they truly feel about her."

What bearing has that on anything? I'd rather see how she performs in the enviornment she will be living in.

"You can determine how she is with money there, if she has a bloody boyfriend or not, just find out if her life is truly legit!"

What bearing has her handling of money there? Boyfriend?
She can hide that if she wants. And her life's "legitness"
is immaterial as whtever life she had would be gone when she came here.

"Bring her here, sight unseen so she can check out your "lifestyle" and see if THAT is what she wants instead of you?? No thanks!"

It still takes two to tango, you get to decide whether to continue to play ball.

"Bringing her here sight unseen, first, you may find in the first 30 minutes that there is zero chemistry! If that is so, a 2 week visit can be an excrutiating experience!"

Same as if you went there, except you have no backups. Send her home if there is no chemistry. The fact that for once the man gets to sit on his azz while she comes to him compensates for the lack of back ups. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

"Anyone can be on their "best behavior" on a vacation with zero stress!"

Kinda like we are (you were) when going there, eh?
Whats the diff? ;-)

I understand the points you're tryin to make but the logic seems flawed. I guess the bottom line is that *either* method is an equal crap shoot and not a wise move.
Still, if it were me, I'd prefer them coming. Beats all the hassles we had to put up with. ;-)

... in response to Sorry ....., posted by LP on Nov 6, 2002

About checking out her life THERE, you say-
"What bearing has that on anything? I'd rather see how she performs in the enviornment she will be living in".

Well fine, bring a complete scammer here and see how she performs?  Why would anyone want to do that?  I want to see her THERE with family and friends, I want to talk to them and find out what this girl is really about.  NOT doing this, there is no possible way you can prevent being scammed just having her show up on your door step.. To me THAT is "flawed" logic..  Take a scammer or a jerk out of the FSU and put her in your home and she will still be a scammer or a jerk, she will just have your money to spend while being so! ;-)

You say-
"And her life's "legitness"
is immaterial as whtever life she had would be gone when she came here".

You could not be more wrong on that one!  I know human behavior and nothing will be "gone" for good OR ill!  If she is a scammer or a nightmare, that is not going to change just because of coming here. Likely it will only get worse!  Conversely, if she is an honest, loving, responsible person there, it is most likely that she will continue to be these things once here..

You say-
"The fact that for once the man gets to sit on his azz while she comes to him compensates for the lack of back ups. Nothing ventured, nothing gained".

Again, I couldn't disagree more.  What you are suggesting is the "lazy man's" approach to finding a bride in the FSU!  And I believe the chances are great that with such little effort, will come little results.  A guy who just "sends" for a girl, sight unseen, is asking for real trouble IMO.  If he has no backups, he could easily be more likely to "put up with some real crap" he might not normally.  He has nothing to compare or contrast her to!  I believe it is very important to meet more than one FSU woman to make an informed choice (I know there are some guys who HAVE met only one and are happy, but I think they are in the minority).  You are dealing with a completely different culture (don't give me the line about "women are women no matter where they're from"!).  These women are a completely different animal than AW.  That is why I got one of my own! LOL!

Concerning them being on their "best behavior", you say-
"Kinda like we are (you were) when going there, eh?
Whats the diff? ;-)"

Well, again, there is IMO a HUGE difference.  I think most of the guys who are going there at such great time and expense are really truly looking for a wife.  Of course there are some players but most of the guys would never go to such lengths if they were not really serious, and most of those women know that and can usually spot the "players".  I know I made damn sure that my girl knew I was hardly the perfect man!  I really told her very truthfully about my life, what I see as my imperfections etc..  I wanted her to know the truth..  I know some guys DON'T do this but they certainly should.  
But again, I cannot reiterate enough how It can be VERY telling spending significant time with a girls family and friends, seeing where she works etc..  You can ask those people in her life all about her, learn about her life through the stories and examples they can give.  It is to me absolutely invaluable info that you would completely miss just having her come to the USA never having met any of these important people in her life, let alone her!

So again, I can see absolutely zero advantage to having a woman from the FSU come to you, sight unseen rather than going there, meeting her and discovering her life there first.  In no way do I feel that "both approaches are an equal crap shoot" at all!
This sending for her thing is truly for the lazy guy who really just doesn't want to put forth the effort, time and money necessary, and IMO, that is exactly what IS needed in this pursuit, some stamina, desire, and effort.

All respectfully just my opinion LP..    

 

... in response to Well, respectfully, just couldn't disagr..., posted by Oscar on Nov 7, 2002

....(Lots o' respect around here lately. ;-)

I think it comes down to circumstances. From a black and white standpoint, I agree with you. But there are many variables to consider and looking at this guy's case I don't see much of a scammer risk. He'd be out less expenses than if he went there. And as Ken pointed out, it's hard to ignore such an opputunity. I still maintain that either method is not optimum.

But fair nuff, your argument does have merit and was enlightening to me. The board at it best, so to speak.

... in response to Respectfully, Oscar...., posted by LP on Nov 7, 2002

Neither the way it works with the women or the process of getting them over here..
This guy may not have much of a scammer risk, but I do feel it would be good for HIM to be able to compare and contrast with at least a couple of other girls there, like even Ken C did.  He said he met a few others so he himself would not be perhaps overwhelmed by his girls "Russianess"..  I think that was smart of him..

... in response to Well, respectfully, just couldn't disagr..., posted by Oscar on Nov 7, 2002

Maybe Oscar, you might reconsider if it's worth the time and effort to respond to this character the way that you did?  

It almost sounds like you're on a ride to justify your thoughts to this nut.

I thought you were better, and a hell of a lot more intelligent than this.  You actually used the word "respectfully" and "LP" in the same sentence.  

You've got to be kidding me.

Excuse me while I throw up on the screen.

... in response to Go ahead and follow the sheep herder to ..., posted by BrianN on Nov 7, 2002

I will respond to whom I want, when I want, thanks very much.  You "thought I was better and more intelligent than this" by responding to LPs post..  Well what are we supposed to think of you attacking others just because they respond to a post of his and your going down the board and making snide comments to every one of his posts??  I thought YOU were better than THAT Brian!

Why don't you chill out and just post and read what you want here and stop telling people like me we're idiots for replying to this or that person.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

If everything is indeed on the up and up as you say, I believe she can get a good price on a flight via Vienna on Austrian Airlines.  Contact Katerina Krasnobaev at Panorama travel.  212-741-0033 or email info@panoramatravel.com  They have come through with cheap prices and excellent service to the Ukraine for me.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

I was writing a lady from Tashkent, whose mother had lived and worked in the US two times. She was a nice looking blonde lady about 32 or something. She had a daughter I would guess about 8 years old. She notified me that she had gotten a VISA to come to the US. Her mother asked me to buy her a plane ticket, and then another one to come to Utah. I thought about it, but I had some compications. I was already one month away from leaving for Ukraine. I had my ticket and VISA, and made some arrangements. I offered to fly her to Kyiv from Tashkent, but she was very upset about this option. It was US or nothing. Her mother arrived in NY and told me how much I had disappointed her daughter. That I have betrayed her, and cheated her of the oportunity to come here.

I will tell you what my impression was: I believe she wanted to come to the US, and seeing me was not of primary importance, and possibly none! She needed a sugar-daddy to foot the bill, and then she would be with her Mom and her clique in NYs Brighton Beach, and I probably would have never seen her. The cost of the ticket to NY was $1500 according to her Mom. Would she have come to UT? I really don't know. All I can say it her mother raked me over the coals in two very heated phone messages.

Steve

... in response to Re: My own experience, posted by Quasimoto on Nov 5, 2002

Are you going to be the chump who flies her over for free, now imagine if she already has a USA Green Card.  She walks off that airplane and right past you... What are you going to do ???

Not a thing, since  you don't have any relationship to her, your not even tied to her per the INS.

You'll be lucky to get a kiss on the cheek, but you definately feel the kick in the pants if this happens to you!!

... in response to Re: PERFECT EXAMPLE FROM QUASIMOTO, posted by wsbill on Nov 6, 2002

Bill,

Thanks and no thanks for your postings.  

I dont have to explain every bit of info, just enough to let good posters to give advice on...of course, its hard for most folks here to give good advice given the knowledge you have but I appreciate it nonetheless.

Incidentally, Visas are not as hard to get.  According to her count on her morning interview last monday, a lot of folks got their Visas.   Some say that the drop in applications since 9/11 haveincreased the chances of receiving one.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

Just wondering how you both discovered each other?

... in response to Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by AndrewinOH on Nov 5, 2002

Hi Andrew,

She wrote to me after seeing my ad profile in Elena's Model.

... in response to Re: Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part ..., posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

Sorry to be ignorant, but I am relatively new to this. What is Elena's Model.

Good luck to you, by the way.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (P..., posted by AndrewinOH on Nov 5, 2002

Thanks Andrew.

As for Elena's model. Its a dating agency I used. I used the post your profile package.

http://www.elenasmodels.com/

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

She got a business visa.  Reason is to attend a Congress meet.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

...or what kind of visa is it? Student? Tourist? Business?

No so hard to get, I know several here who obtained a business or student visa. What kind is her's?

... in response to Did I miss this....., posted by LP on Nov 5, 2002

Hmmm.  Ya mean ya didn't get a chance to rock this chicks world yet captain?

CNN has openings for you dude!

lol!

... in response to Re: Did I miss this....., posted by BrianN on Nov 7, 2002

...you missed a couple down below. Keep up the good work, I appreciate your comments for reasons you obviously don't see. Got a bug up yer butt do ye? Whats the problem? lol, as Peter Graves said in the movie Airplane: "You can tell me, I'm the Capt'n". Email me if you want to have a more interesting chat.

Besides, I come a lot cheaper than professionals like Oscar.

ps: CNN doesn't pay what I require these days......

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

When I am in a business situation or a personal relationship concerning money-mine or theirs-there has to be a mature understanding. I would assume if this woman wanted to be your potential mate and is mature, she would not only appreciate but prefer that you be cautious. If my mife caught me sending $20 to someone I did not know, meet, or have some kind of agreement she would freek. The problem with these types of relationships is that they are usually gone into with a wonderland mentality. It is either so so so so wonderful as from God or evil evil evil from Satan herself. I fell like this is the GOP board. So be smart and act like you have some sense. If she is a good woman she will appreciate it.
Joe

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

here's the deal, you have made a hell of a mistake.

I would tell her that youy were given very bad advice, let
say, from a friend whom had been had.

What I would do is,  buy her a ticket (no refund, no exchange.....etc.)  .... and get it to her as soon as
possible.

It is my believe that you did have reasons to worry,  but
had no reason to let her know.

Remember, women never forget these things and somewhere
along the road in the future,  somehow you will get the
invoice.
Take care and good luck

... in response to Re: Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by micha1 on Nov 5, 2002

n/t

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

must be rather wealthy. I certainly could be wrong, however, I was under the impression that type of 'readily available cash' was reserved for a different class of people. Yes, the type involved in nefarious dealings. Perhaps this board has made me a bit paranoid, yet, if I were you, I'd like to know who this 'friend' is. That's quite a chunk of change for the average 'best friend'.

Nevertheless, I think it's a splendid idea for her to come here First, for all the obvious reasons aforementioned.

Good luck,

Vaughn

... in response to Her best friend..., posted by BURKE89 on Nov 5, 2002

some people do have that kind of $ and aren't in the mafia. My wife has a few friends that have their own businesses and have $. Plus when I was there, there were quite a few new houses being built that were large, modern and not cheap looking. So obviously some people had money.

... in response to believe it or not, posted by Stan B on Nov 5, 2002

many people have money-they just do not tell the gov. my wife made $300 to $400 a week selling plane tickets. How do people think that they live on $0 a month? It is like here. I paid myself $40k a year-but I spent over $300K so tell me, how much did I make?
Joe

... in response to believe it or not, posted by Stan B on Nov 5, 2002

Also, they are young professionals working for a multi-national company so they earn good money (in Ukraine standards), got good education and family background.  

I guess my lady's ability to gain the US Visa is one sign that shows she has capability and good background.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

I believe Austrian Airlines flies between Dnepropetrovsk and the US via Vienna.  I believe that this might be a seasonal flight.  It may also be more expensive than having her travel to Kiev for an international flight where you will have more options.

Someone like Jack at FirstDream can help with the Dnepro Kiev leg.

Personally, I would rather go visit her there first, but that is not an option here.  Good Luck.

... in response to Ukraine Lady Coming to US (Part II), posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

Bruce,
You made a big mistake in verbalizing your doubt to her.  Be very cautious and try to verify that she is not misleading you, but don't confront her with your doubts.  You are in a no win situation when you do.  If she is being 100% honest, you will offend her.  If she is being dishonest, you will only tip her off to be more careful in her deception.  Hopefully, you have only offended her.  SUCK UP TIME for you now. (Tell her you got some bad advice)
KenC

... in response to big mistake, posted by KenC on Nov 5, 2002

n/t

... in response to big mistake, posted by KenC on Nov 5, 2002

THanks KenC for your tips.

So you think there is still a possibility of her being a scammer?  

One of the things that I am really afraid is having someone who is a professional dater...comes here on a freebie and goes out...

Also it seems that she trusted me that I would pay her 100% when she comes and so that is like saying--"You dont trust me, but I do trust you"

What would you advice once we meet here?

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

I think you will know pretty soon what her interests are. If you feel you are the focus of the trip, it will reveal itself. If it appears she is coming here for a vacation and smoozing, including potentially other men, it will reveal itself.

On the other hand if you are doing fine together, then you had better be ready to back-track, and let her know you were the fool. This is the most popular scam going along with the sick mother routine.

Steve

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

Bruce,
"Scammer" is a much over used term here.  Let me just say that in order for your relationship to work out, there are many unknowns yet to be uncovered.  The biggest hurdle yet to come in MEETING EACH OTHER.  Until that happens, this is just a fantasy for both of you.  My advice is to take it very slow once she arrives.  Get to know her as best you can and don't try to "sell" America to her, it is YOU that should matter most to her.
KenC

... in response to Re: big mistake, posted by BruceJet on Nov 5, 2002

I still think something sounds fishy here, but this is your life, your money and your emotions. I would call her comments regarding trust basic reverse psychology...."I trust you, why do you not trust me?"...well, she has not really got anything to loose has she? I hope things turn out good for you both, but from these postings today, something does not sound kosher.

With respect to advice on what to do when she gets here, unless this is the first ever time you have dated a woman, go with what comes naturally. Be yourself and hope above all else that she falls in love with you and not the notion of coming here to get something better once you have paid for everything.

I am no expert, hell I am divorced so I am no relationship guru, but the only thing I will say finally on this matter is er on the side of cautiousness. Even $400 is a lot too loose, but broken hearts are even harder to mend. To quote a somg lyric, "memories fade, but the scars still linger". I wish you the best of luck, just be careful.