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A strange calmness has drifted onto this forum. I said to myself - what is different here. MarkInTx is gone. Hey, don't give up now, in a few posts yout post quanitity will equal the number of Christian years AD. I haven't checked to see who has more posts than you :))

... in response to Hey MarkInTx, posted by thesearch on Oct 29, 2002

[This message has been edited by KenC]

Greg,
 I think that Markintx brought something very lacking to this forum: emotion and romance.  Dan is the best guy here for dotting "I's," crossing "T's" and just about anything to do with travel, but there is more to this than just the paperwork.  I know very little about the visa process and travel requirements, but I think I bring common sense, some experience and relationship skills to the table.  There are far too few romantic guys here as it is.  This is not only a black & white issue, there are many emotions and feelings involved.  I hope that some here can put aside thrie petty conflict and just move on.  I thought that Markintx was the best writer here at expressing the emotions and romance side of this story.  His trip report was by far the best ever.
KenC

... in response to Re: Hey MarkInTx, posted by KenC on Oct 30, 2002

Boy,  I come back and deleted posts - makes me wonder what was said while I was gone.

Ken, I agree with you about MarkInTx. Even Dan acknowledged such

MarkInTx:   I found him amusing and very clearly articulate. He projects an infectious optimism and romantic persona - that I (and others) found endearing.

Mark has posted some very good information at times. Some of his posts I found to be very  insightful revealing deep perspective.

He is like  Dan in one way. He is very willing to help anyone and both of them have a higher intellect.

... in response to Re: Re: Hey MarkInTx, posted by thesearch on Oct 30, 2002

Have to agree with thesearch on this one.

Even if he stepped out of line now and then lately, some of his posts were indeed insightful / revealing deep perspective.

Neither was his trip report offending or disrespectful for his wife in my opinion.

MarkInTx has been one of the few regular posters ever to clearly voice his opinions, and then take the heat for it without resorting to low level childish attacks and name calling.

Jan

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Hey MarkInTx, posted by R Danneskjold on Oct 31, 2002

Jan,

How are you doing? How has Lena adjusted to life in Norway? What was the most difficult part of the adjustment process for you and her would you say?

Any plans for future road trips in Ukraine?

Greg

... in response to Re: Hey MarkInTx, posted by KenC on Oct 30, 2002

....gotta disagree. It's true that romance is nice and all that but a man has to know when to control it. Like praise, romance too freely given becomes meaningless. Any man can gush like a schoolboy, we all feel it at times. But a man needs to know when to show restraint, especially around other men, or he looks the fool. Puppy dog is right, his blindness doesn't present a great impression of those involved in MOB.

His story was over the top and included details most could have done without. It showed little respect for the girl and clearly fullfilled a need of his, not of our's. In addition, his publishing photos and personal data was ill advised. I happen to know the photo of the girl was used by someone (not me) for a purpose most here would consider in bad taste.

Besides, any contribution he makes is lost among his other single minded qualities. One can only hope he grows some during his absence. Somehow, I doubt it though.

... in response to Sorry Big Guy....., posted by LP on Oct 30, 2002

LP,
I will agree that I would never share the intimate details with this board as Mark did, but I don't fault him for doing so.  I am not surprised that you would take an opposing view on the romantic or emotional value of his posts either.  You are far too logical for that nonsense.  LOL.  I see both sides.  
KenC

... in response to Sorry Big Guy....., posted by LP on Oct 30, 2002

Mark may be fine with his writing skills but I found many of his sexual comments about his girl disturbing as well as some of the photos, which he got slammed by more than a few guys for..  I just have to feel that his girl would have been flipping out if she knew what he was posting about her etc..  I personally felt these things were deeply disrespectful.

I really liked Mark in the beginning, but he definitely started losing it late in the game IMO..  Not to say he couldn't pull things together.. More than a few of us have! LOL!

My 2 cents..

... in response to I have to agree with LP-, posted by Oscar on Oct 30, 2002

I guess I missed the photos and the comments.  If someone will point out where they are, I'd like to read/see them before forming an opinion...  I'm not asking about this for personal titilation - rather it's just that many seem to be quite adamantly bashing the hell out of MarkInTex and I would like to see for myself.  I find it a little odd that the guy isn't even here and he's got a posse out after him with lynching on their mind...  I'm not trying to argue with any of your opinions, but I try to make a habit out of forming my own.

["opinions are like ass holes -- everyone has one..."]

... in response to Re: I have to agree with LP-, posted by robobond on Oct 31, 2002

Sorry, after taking much flak, he pulled the photos.  I don't know if his comments are still there or not, you can try the archives.. I'm certainly not going to take the time to go search for them.

... in response to I have to agree with LP-, posted by Oscar on Oct 30, 2002

Oscar,
There is a paradox here as I see it.  I have no doubt that every newbie has a multitude of questions regarding sex and the single Russian woman.  They won't ask and we won't tell.  I sincerely feel that Mark's references in this area were made to be informative and to provide a romantic side of his story telling.  Even though I would not share what he did, I have no problem in his doing so.  I certainly was not offended by his story telling.
KenC

... in response to double edged sword, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

I agree with Oscar's post below.  I remember when Mark put his pictures and his graphic accounts on the board.  While I wasn't offended, my wife and some of her Russian friends were.  They couldn't believe that a man would do that to his woman.  I certainly don't have any problem answering questions about sex and the RW's attitudes about it as well as what one might expect.  But publishing intimate photos on the internet along with detailed descriptions about sex with your fiance is, IMHO, going over the line.  Ken, even you admit you wouldn't do this.  At a minimum, it's very unfair to the fiance who, as a result, has been the victim of unfortunate ridicule by several posters.

... in response to double edged sword, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

I feel that there is a big difference in sharing general information about how RW feel about sex in answering questons (which we have done here) but I felt this was done in more of a bragging type of way and certainly about one specific woman which I really feel was rather debasing to her.  I am sure she would not have been happy to know what was being discussed about her.. and then to post suggestive semi-nude pics on top of it.. Wow!  I just didn't agree with it at all.  I WAS uncomfortable with it personally. Mostly I was uncomfortable for her.  There is the sexual info about her, her pics AND her name!  That's just too much IMO..

... in response to I have to agree with LP-, posted by Oscar on Oct 30, 2002

Character counts and MarkInTx has shown very poor character. There is a huge support network in Dallas that is now pretty much off limits to him. One thing you'll begin to understand is that good relations with the local AM/RW - AM/UW community is important for cultural adjustment. I have things covered on my end.

-blm

... in response to Sorry Oscar, Mark is ostracized, posted by BarryM on Oct 30, 2002

We don't know or socialize with any other Ukrainian/Russian/American couples.  The focus has been on integrating here, not recreating Ukraine.  My husband doesn't feel a need to hang out with other Ukrainians here, though we could find them if he were interested.  

He is happy that we've found the Russian grocery store, but other than that he is adapting to this country.

As someone who lived in Ukraine for a long, long time, I can say that it was my Ukrainian friends who made me love the country and love living there.  Without them, I would not have integrated, and I would not have learned the language and customs.  Though I am not one ounce Ukrainian, I do identify VERY heavily with the country and the culture.

I had many American friends in Ukraine, but when we were all together we created an American subculture in Ukraine.  Regular Friday night Happy Hours at Arizona BBQ did not do much, other than make us nostalgic for 'how much better things were everywhere else.'

I don't think that other Russians/Ukrainians do much to make the transition here easier--at least not in our case.

... in response to Not our case either., posted by amerikanka99 on Oct 31, 2002

Amerikanka,
Did you ever go to the Ukrainian restaurant on Orchard Lake Road?  Hope all is well with you.
KenC

... in response to question for you, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

[Small world - I lived in Orchard Lake & worked in Southfield for awhile - Now I'm back in Oregon.]

... in response to question for you, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

Ken,

No, we haven't made it there yet.  They (the fiddler) just opened a place in Oak Park too.  Don't know why we haven't been yet, but he does love to go down to Hamtramck for Polish food, so I guess he gets his fix of Slavic food there.  

amerikanka

... in response to Re: question for you, posted by amerikanka99 on Oct 31, 2002

ameikanka,
You don't have to go all the way to Hamtramck for good Polish food.  Three Sisters in downtown Rochester has GREAT Polish food (and the decor is Hamtramck style too).  There also used to be a a good one at 15 mile (Maple for you West Siders) and Dequindre (NE corner) across from the Polish Cultural Center.  MMMM thoughts of the perogi and stuffed cabbage makes me hungry.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: question for you, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

We've tried to go over to the Polish Cultural center, but the restaurant there has kooky hours, so its been closed the few times we've tried.  The grocery store closes early there too. In Hamtramck the grocery stores are opened fairly late, and we kind of like the no-frills atmosphere.  

We've meant to make it out to Rochester too.  

I am a big fan of Asian food, so thats my preference when we eat out.  Hubby has fallen in love with Middle Eastern kabobs, hummos, and such--so thats his current choice for restaurants.  

Unbelievably, he doesn't like my favorites: vareniky/pierogi or blintzes, so I never have to make them for him.  

... in response to Sorry Oscar, Mark is ostracized, posted by BarryM on Oct 30, 2002

If and when you finally get a fiance over to the States, you'll realize how very wrong you are about cultural adjustment.  Keep going down that path and you'll more than likely run into the law of 'unintended consequences'.

... in response to You are off base re: cultural adjustment, posted by Stevo on Oct 31, 2002

n/t

... in response to How is Barry "Very Wrong" Stev..., posted by Dan on Oct 31, 2002

ggg

... in response to Sorry Oscar, Mark is ostracized, posted by BarryM on Oct 30, 2002

[This message has been edited by KenC]

Barry,
You grossly over estimate the need to have AM/RW couples to support your relationship with a woman from the FSU.  You may realize this, if you ever HAVE a relationship with one.
KenC

... in response to from where?  LOL, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

Some immigrants tend to insulate themselves from our culture and language and having a network of friends here who speak their language may exacerbate this.  I've seen it happen with Spanish speaking immigrants. Working and forming friendships with others who do not speak their native language makes the transition perhaps more painful in the beginning, but I think in the long run, many are better off this way.

... in response to A possible down side to socializing with..., posted by Patrick on Oct 31, 2002

Patrick,
I use the same logic when I reccomend that the guys do not get Russian TV installed right away.  Having Russian TV will give their wives a crutch to lean on instead of toughing it through with American TV.  I am not making any coment about the quality of our TV, just that it is a helpful language tool.  
KenC

... in response to Re: A possible down side to socializing ..., posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

Ken,

I never thought that I Love Lucy reruns could be so educational!  On my 2nd trip to Russia in route to Moscow from JFK (last Xmas) I sat next to a moderately young (in the eye of this beholder) RW.  I did not previously know it, but she said that I was probably only 1 of 5+/- AM on board and all the rest were American-Russians returning home for the holidays.  I commented on how clear her English was (VERY fluent) and I asked her where she had studied to perfect it so well.  She told me she didn't even attend an "English as a Secondary Language" class -- she learned her English from watching TV in America after moving here...  She had only lived in the US for 5 years... and her language was FLUENT...

Bob

... in response to from where?  LOL, posted by KenC on Oct 31, 2002

I am not doing back flips trying to find RW in my immediate area for my girl to pal up with.  She is mostly concerned about establishing good relationships with the women in my family and with my friends wives and I am very happy about this.  She never asks me if there are going to be RW for her to become best friends with.  My girl seems much more interested in aculturating in her new country rather than banding together with people from her native country and I think this is a very healthy thing.  I have often heard that those who come and just want to hang out with people from their native country never quite make the jump as well from a social, language or ideological perspective.
If she meets and happens to like any RW here, that's fine, but like I said, I am not conducting any major searches for them...  

Just my opinion..      

... in response to Re: Hey MarkInTx, posted by KenC on Oct 30, 2002

so, "Where in the World is Carmen MarkInTx?"......

... in response to Hey MarkInTx, posted by thesearch on Oct 29, 2002

thesearch,
Did I miss something here?  (i.e., did MarkInTex get banned or what?)
Bob

... in response to Re: Hey MarkInTx, posted by robobond on Oct 29, 2002

Mark has temporarily "banned" himself? Some of us do (have myself) only to subtly re-appear and say "hello" once again. Information should prevail here (not ego)..
Let us reflect. Best wishes all.
Karl

... in response to Hey MarkInTx, posted by thesearch on Oct 29, 2002

wsbill has more.  His incredible total is over 2200 but Mark posted over a much shorter time.

... in response to I have the answer, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 29, 2002

wsbill   LOL