Print Page - red flag?

I got an e-mail from a woman from russia.She saw my posting on a website. She is 24, I am 48. I exchanged an e-mail with her. In her second e-mail she talked about the fact that russian men drink a lot and that she does not like that. That she is a very serious minded person, educated, plays classical piano and all that.
Then she says she is serious about finding a relationship and love
and that she likes me from what she read about me and has hopes our communication will lead to something good. She asked that I be honest with her and if I am not serious about pursuing a relationship with her to tell her.
Is it unusual for these ladies to be so certain of something so soon? I know some people know what they want and are mature beyond their years. But, she is only 24 and I am 48. Isn't that a large age gap for any woman? I have a feeling this could be a scam and really be some guy trying to set me up for a future request for money.Her name is Olya from Cheboksary.

... in response to red flag?, posted by chevy on Nov 1, 2002

Unless I missed something... where is the red flag?? You say she says she likes you and hopes that it will lead to something good... is there something else you are leaving out?? Of course these girls are looking for a better life and you have to be mindful of that... but how many times have you met an american girl and the first question from her lips is what do you do for a living?? so that is something to chew on... I would also say that many of these girls have been through alot of nonsense from American guys that are window shoppers and not serious about their quest for a wife. Of course you should be careful and not marry the first girl you write (unless she is the right one of course). You should be honest with the women you write and honest with yourself... do alot of soul searching before you make a decision. I was in contact with my future wife for a long time before making the trip... but each case is different... and everyone is different... and last but not least... the age difference should not be the deciding factor in my opinion... the maturity and nature of your relationship should be... some people 48 have the maturity of a 16 year old and some people 24 have the wisdom of someone 48... I can only say that my wife who is in her late 20's has more smarts then most of the women that are my age (47). So be guarded, be careful, use your head... (not the little one) but also have an open mind and heart in your pursuit... good luck,
Keith

... in response to red flag?, posted by chevy on Nov 1, 2002

Chevy,

Re: "Is it unusual for these ladies to be so certain of something so soon? I know some people know what they want and are mature beyond their years. But, she is only 24 and I am 48..."

I remember when I was 24... I knew absolutely everything that there was to know and I was invincible.

I also remember when I was 48... I had a quadruple bypass operation which caused me to seriously reflect on my life... I came to realize that I didn't really know didley-squat.

Either the knowledge curve, contrary to accepted opinion, actually works in reverse OR I was pretty damn naive/immature at age 24...

I think the real wild card here is not whether she is a scammer (which I see no evidence of) or not, but that it's almost impossible to predict what she will be like when she grows up. "Odds" are that the marriage would not make it to your retirement date - at which time you'll probably be dreaming of golf, fishing, maybe your grandchildren AND asking your doc questions about Viagra - while she is hitting her sexual peak and toying with the idea of popping one more baby before her biological clock strikes midnight...

Don't be thinking with your wrong head.

That's my rant.

Bob

... in response to red flag?, posted by chevy on Nov 1, 2002

From what you have written this is not a red flag IMHO. However, the fact that you questioned such means to me that you need to record it as a yellow flag. You may sensing something that is not tangible (intuition) - then again you may be are being just overly cautious.

As far as wanting to know that you are serious. I think what she is referring to is are you serious about the process and that you would not write to her just for the sake of doing something out of curiosity. There probably are a lot of guys who dabble in some letters to these ladies who simply are not serious enough to really ever follow through.

Continue to write and if she is a scammer, you will get red flags eventually. Some of these scammers are very clever. They will wait to build a relationship over time with correspondence and then when they think that you are deep enough into it - they will then start asking for money for some reason or another.

About the age thing. First of all, IMHO, at age 24 there are going to be a lot of women who really do not know what they want. Of course there will be exceptions, I have seen them. However, 24 is 24. I personally would not prefer to be involved with a woman in her 20's. There is no right or wrong to this only successes and failures and there are predictable ways to improve your success rate and ways to challenge such. Getting a woman a lot younger than you is a predictable way to increase your odds of failure. However, that is all relative.

... in response to red flag?, posted by chevy on Nov 1, 2002

I received many emails from women unsolicited when I had my "stuff" out there etc.. This is not unusual. I still get an inquiry once in a while even though I have not been looking for the past 8 months, having found my girl. As far as her being serious and wanting a relationship and "cutting to the chase" as it were, this is also not terribly unusual, from my experience. Most of these women do NOT mess around, they ARE serious about finding a mate and they are often not very shy about expressing it. I personally found it refreshing, no BS, no games, just honesty (of course just like here, not ALL there are honest).
From what you have described she has written about, I think this is common for many of these women. They usually KNOW what they want, they are usually NOT wishy-washy, and they don't play a lot of games IMO, so I see nothing from the little you have said, to cause great worry. Just ask LOTS of questions and never forget the golden rule- NEVER SEND MONEY TO A WOMAN YOU HAVE NEVER MET IN PERSON! No self respecting RW will ASK you for money never having met you! Until you have solid cause (her asking for money, for ANY reason!) I say learn more.. ;-) But do your due diligence "research", check some of the web sites, like FirstDream, that list known and suspected scammers..

Regarding age differences- This has certainly been discussed here at great length. I personally feel that past 20 years is pushing it but there are guys here who have greater age differences than that and are happy, so it is a pretty personal thing. I do believe that a 24 year old RW equates more to a 29 year old AW (I just figure an "average" of 5 years greater mental maturity). But if you would consider yourself less than an average looking guy, and the RW is a stunning knockout model, you might want to stop and take a reality check... ;-)

My 2 cents.

... in response to Re: red flag?, posted by Oscar on Nov 1, 2002

On my first trip to Ukraine, I met a lady that I eventually got listed in Jack's agency. She is from Lvov and about 33 now I think. I saw her through the car window as I approached the vehicle. I almost dropped over. She was a ravishing red-head. I thought to myself, how could she even consider a plain looking guy like me?

We went to lunch with our translator. She asked me what I was doing in Kyiv and what I was looking for. I told her that I was looking for a good affectionate stable loving women. That I did not drink, smoke, or womanize. That more than anything I wanted to be a husband and a father. She started crying right then and there!!!! It wasn't because I was magnificent, that is for sure. It was because she had never met a man who thought the same way she did. She held my hand for the next 4 hours. As it turned out, she was just a little too much woman for me. She was a little intense about our relationship, and for me, I just wasn't ready to get married after one week. Never had sex either. She said it was for marriage! Most beautiful skin I have ever seen, and she could make a good meal out of an old shoe.

Steve

... in response to Re: Re: Knowing what they want, posted by Quasimoto on Nov 1, 2002

Steve,
If she's over 45, send me the contact information! Seriously, I think that sometimes you have to be the thinker and the conscience of the relationship - meaning back it off if it seems to be in no one's best interest in the long run. There appear to be some wonderful women over there that are just a little too eager to jump off the bridge without thinking. However well intentioned she might be it wouldn't do either of you any good for her to come over here just to be disillusioned at a later date. I ran into a similair situation and she felt that she was in love with me before I even got there. She was one of the nicest and most sincere women that I had ever met and was capable of meeting all my "wifely" expectations. But the "speed" of it all scared the hell out of me and I backed off thinking she really hadn't thought this out enough and I would have to be the rational one in this circumstance.
Bob

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Knowing what they want, posted by robobond on Nov 2, 2002

Hi Bob,

I think she is about 33 or 34 now, though she doesn't look it. She is actually more attractive than her pictures. Her ID at Jack's agency site is 213 . She more resembles the bottom photo. The top photo is just too hard or studio to really represent her. She was a woman who knew what she wanted. By the way, she is not 5'8". I don't know where they came up with that, but she is about 5'5 or 5'6". She is very intelligent and interesting. A little tempermental, but not more so than most of them. She is a proffessional actress and was in one of Ukrain's most famous movies, ROXALANA. She was also a TV personality, but she really has no ego.

Steve

... in response to There are exceptions to the 'no money' r..., posted by Stevo on Nov 1, 2002

Let me reiterate- NEVER SEND MONEY TO A WOMAN YOU HAVE NEVER MET IN PERSON! You happened to take a complete chance Stevo, by your own admission. You were very lucky, but I will venture to guess that 98% of women who ask money of a man they have never met are likely scamming him! How's that for paranoid?
If a woman you have not met asks for money, you simply tell her that you have been instructed not to send money to any woman until you have met in person and you have decided to marry. If she dumps you, that pretty much gives you your answer. If she doesn't, accepts your criteria and quits asking, you may have found something worthwhile. Better if she never asks you at all!

I have been told all of the following-
1- "I need money because my Mother is sick".
2- "I need money because my my Father is sick".
3- "I need money because my my child is sick".
4- "I need money because my my dog is sick".
5- "I need money because my my cat is sick".
6- "I need money because our roof fell in and we cannot afford to fix it".
7- "I need money because my agency will not let me continue to let me write until my bill is paid".
8- "I need money because my I lost my job and cannot afford the internet cafe anymore".
9- "I need money because I must quit my job because my boss says unless I sleep with him, he will fire me".
10- "I need money for English lessons before you come here so I can tell you how much I love you in English when I meet you at the airport".
11- "I need money so I can buy a tourist visa so I can come to visit you".

There were many others! LOL! And the amazing thing is that every one of these lines have worked at some point on some poor guy!

Nope- I stick hard and fast with the golden rule-
never send money to a woman you have never met in person!

... in response to I say be completely paranoid!, posted by Oscar on Nov 1, 2002

I wouldn't by any stretch of the imagination declare it pure chance that I wasn't scammed. That's the point, if you have very good correspondence, you can pretty quickly figure out the scammers, esp. if they ask for money early on. It is when the correspondence keeps going for a long time and then the request comes in...is it real or a scam? You have to use your judgement at that point and decide what's real and what isn't. Can you be wrong? Of course, but there are no guarantees...even after you meet in person. So in my case I could have been scammed, but the odds were in my favor. I know how to read people, esp. women!

... in response to Re: red flag?, posted by Oscar on Nov 1, 2002

Oscar,
Nice post and good advice. I would like to add one thing though. You said, "No self respecting RW will ASK you for money never having met you!" I just would like to point out that meeting a RW shouldn't change her attitude towards asking for money. I would be suspicious of a woman that asked for money even after meeting her. There have been posters here that were sending their ladies(?) large sums of money after meeting them that had to completely change the woman's lifestyle. Big mistake.
-
From my experience, the pride in the RW shouldn't change after meeting her or even after marriage. My wife's first Xmas here can be used as an example. She insisted on getting a Xmas job to earn her own money to buy gifts for me and my children.
KenC

... in response to good advice-one small addition, posted by KenC on Nov 1, 2002

I spoke to my girl this morning.. She said she might be going to Kiev early next week to do a one or two day fashion show (she's in Dnepro) and she was excited because she might be able to make $100-$150 plus they would be paying for her train (not 1st class I'm sure). I asked her what she would do with all that money? LOL! She said she was going to use it to pay for her trip for her and her son to go to Warsaw for their interview! I told her no, that I would be paying for that and that she should just blow the money on herself. Can you believe that?

... in response to Ken- A follow-up on the money thing-, posted by Oscar on Nov 3, 2002

Oscar,
Sounds like your fiancee has the ole Russian pride thang going quite well. The only time I had ever sent money to Lena was for her to purchase suitcases for her trip here. I envisioned a couple of mega large suitcases on wheels. (The kind my ex would take for a weekend get away) Instead she brought her belongings in two duffle (sport) type bags. These weren't even as large as they can come. Oh, yeah, and she had change too. LOL.
-
This type of mentality doesn't go away after marriage either. (I know I've told this before) This past April I was admiring the digital cameras at an electronics store. She told me to buy it for my pending birthday. I told her I didn't want to spend the money at the time. She said that she would buy it for me with money she had put away from grocery/household money. Well, I ended up with the camera ($600+) and a new portable phone for my office ($150). All from money I had never missed. She has gone to her "stash" more than once when it was needed by the "family." Amazing.
KenC

... in response to good advice-one small addition, posted by KenC on Nov 1, 2002

Oscar, Ken, others,

I agree with both of you -- sounds to me like you both found a couple of "keepers" and I wish you the best of luck.

The current communication on this board gives me inspiration to continue pursuing my AM/RW quest which, if I look at it too logically & closely, at times appears to me to be a sick & perverted blend of masochism boarding on an outright death wish, sexual fantasy approaching an LSD trip, paranoia like when alien spiders land on your shoulder, political immersion spiced by weird James Bondish/CIA/KGB twists, adrenaline thrills that would make Evel Kneival pale, and writing cryptic (Cyrillic?) letters to Dear Abby.

After a couple of regular posters would not reverse their regressions of publicly and rudely revisiting their childhood playground fights, Patrick was forced to amishly shun them. Things seemed better but they got pretty damn dull and quiet around here.

Now things seem to be picking up and I now see the healthy spirit of differing opinions resuming. I’m not singling the two of you out (you just happen to be here right now), but if the board were to level out at about this latitude, I would be most happy. I think lot’s of others might begin/resume contributing their opinions and experiences IF this continues.

I sincerely hope that all of “the elders” can now realize the value of “agreeing to disagree” and keep their guns in their holsters. This is self-serving because I feel that I, plus numerous others who just now seem to be posting, have much to gain from hearing the advice, difference of opinions, and experiences of others. Without that, this board just resembles an AOL chat group, and I’m too damn old for that. I feel that it’s only a matter of time before (1) Mr. Putin starts realizing that we are spiriting away Russia’s best women and (2) the light bulbs start getting too bright in the minds of other American Men. These two occurrences could/would queer this whole damn thing and ruin the whole process.

“The time to buy a stock is when no one else wants it, NOT when the land rush is already on...”

Bob

... in response to good advice-one small addition, posted by KenC on Nov 1, 2002

You are completely on target.. I guess I am referring more to things like giving her money for helping to get her paperwork done for the K-1, which can get a little expensive with translations etc., getting the physical exams. But if she is asking you to buy her new coats and clothes, jewelry and on and on while she is still there, I think that spells major trouble! My girl is paying for her own English lessons, but I don't think that would be unreasonable for a guy to pay for IMO..

That is really amazing what you said about your wife and Christmas... I don't have my girl here yet but I can't get her to take a dime! She did let me pay for her physical exams for her and her son but that's it! She pays for her own English lessons and is working extra hours so she will be able to bring Christmas presents with her for my whole EXTENDED family!

Makes you feel pretty good..

... in response to red flag?, posted by chevy on Nov 1, 2002

I can't see anything here that would send up a red flag yet. After all, you have only exchanged two emails. You wrote "she likes me from what she read about me and has hopes our communication will lead to something good." I see nothing sinister in this statement. She qualifies her feelings by acknowledging that she only knows what you have told her so far, and she expressed a hope that your correspondence will continue. Asking that you be honest with her, and that you not lead her on, sounds like a reasonable request to me. She said "if I am not serious about pursuing a relationship ...." I am interpreting this to mean that you be serious about the process, not that she is currently "serious" about your relationship right now, after only two emails. Put yourself in her shoes, I realize I am just speculating here, but I have seen enough in Ukraine to know that corresponding via email from an internet cafe (especially if she is trying to write in English) is a tiresome and expensive (for her) effort.

You are concerned about the age gap, and maybe you should be, but again, it is too soon to tell. She did contact you first, so that could also be a good sign.

My Marina's comment was that if you distrust her at this early point in your relationship, will distrust be a problem in the future? Since I don't know you, I have no answer. My motivation for responding to your post is that I would not like to see you pass on an opportunity for happiness just because you have read so many stories about scammers and such. I started reading this board approximately the time my fiance was arriving in the U.S., and have found alot of the information useful, and have appreciated the help I have received from others. However, I also realize that if I had been reading this board while I was just beginning my search, some of the experiences and opinions expressed would have scared the heck out of me.

Just give her a chance. Who knows, after a zillion emails, phone calls, and visits, you could end up happily married to a wonderful woman. Think positive.

Dan D.

... in response to Not Necessarily, posted by DJD on Nov 1, 2002

"However, I also realize that if I had been reading this board while I was just beginning my search, some of the experiences and opinions expressed would have scared the heck out of me."

Good post. About your comment above. Knowledge can be empowering or disempowering depending on the person and how they react.

For me, before I found this forum, I ran into a couple scammers. There were red flags but, I was too trusting. Had I been armed with the advice of the seasoned guys back then with my first contacts with these ladies, I would have picked up on those first scammers most likely.

Then, I shifted to being too suspicious which caused its own set of problems, then I found a place of middle ground.

Everyone has to find that middle ground sometime or the potential for problems goes up either because of not seeing the scammer or seeing a scammer that is not and acting inappropriately. With being too suspicious, you can damage a budding relationship quite easily.

My advice is if you are suspicious, do not reveal it. If your lady is a scammer, she will be more likely to slip up and reveal more red flags if she does not sense that you are becoming wise to her.

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GoodWife / Planet-Love Archives => Threads started in 2002 => Topic started by: chevy on November 01, 2002, 05:00:00 AM