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Frank, the best thing about this Russian discussion board is the amount of advice and knowledge one can gain here. As I see you are getting some good advice,.....and some not so good advice! I think if I felt all the advice you were being given was all good, I would not need to comment, but when I see some of the advice being given to you that I think is so detrimental, then I feel a need to speak up.
Frank you must realize here you will be given a lot of opinions. Most guys have an opinion and most guys feel they way they are doing things must be the right way, when in reality there way may not be the right way. First of all Frank all men are different. What works for one man may not work for another so to a great degree many things about this most wonderful of pursuits are an individual thing and as such, things are very much customized. Each man must read and look and study the different methods and options and go the route that he thinks is best suited for him. Some men will see one woman, some two or three, some several. Some guys will go totally alone, some with other groups of guys. There are advantages and benefits to all approaches. I was for the most part a very individual person. I started out by going on the large Group Socials but quickly learnt that there was a slim chance of meeting my future wife at one of these socials but a darn good chance I would have a week of parting! I, unlike some to give advice, was not looking to have a week of partying, but rather I was looking for a lifetime bride. I was smart enough to be able to find and utilize the honorable and ethical agencies who were in the cities I was going to. Not all agencies are slimy and sleazy, some can be a tremendous asset.

As mentioned, some men can only see one woman. My opinion is that about 18% to 20% of the guys going are the type that can only see one woman. If you are that type of guy than there is no sense in trying to set up other ladies or even back-up plans as most guys going to see one woman do not want to even consider a back-up plan or other ladies. With these guys it's all or nothing (and engagement ring in there pocket). From what I have read of what you have written, you are not opposed to seeing other women, you are not opposed to a back-up plan, so I do not get the feel that you are the type who can only see one lady. I think you have just become smitten with this one lady and so she is all you are thinking about.

I saw below where you were relieved to see someone not write that Lugansk was the scam capitol. In only my opinion Lugansk IS the scam capitol of Ukraine. I get no satisfaction in saying that because I know there are many wonderful, beautiful ladies in Lugansk. The problem is, like a cancer, one bad agency produced another and another and another starting in about 1995. If you can deal directly with an honest agency in Lugansk than you have a chance to meet some fine women, otherwise you WILL be scammed. Frank, go to the internet and fine out information on Lugan-Girls and Albion marriage agencies in Lugansk. They are the only two honest marriage agencies that I know exist today in Lugansk. If the agency you are dealing with is not one of these two there is little doubt in my mind that you are probably being scammed. I will agree with Dan that Chernvosty is high on the scam list, mostly due to the cancer created by Barracuda Baranova, and I would put Kharkov ahead of Kherson as my opinion on the top four scam centers in Ukraine, but all are tamable.

Frank, I would never advise you or any man to go on one of these trips to see just one woman. Even most the guys who have done such would advise against it. I would love to hear ALL the many benefits going to see one lady has over seeing many ladies. I think of anyone who offers you such advice you should ask them of ALL the many advantages there are to seeing one woman over several. You must take some of the advice you are given with a grain of salt!

Also Frank you probably would need the help, guidance and advice more on your first trip than any trip you take! At least on your first trip Frank, it is not such a bad idea to seek help. Dan brought up a good point, what if you decide you might want to go to Lviv after a few days in Lugansk? Take the advice of some here and you are up a creek in trying to get to Lviv in short time with little notice! Come to think of it Frank, since you have not made a previous trip and do not have anyone you know, who is going to hand deliver your letters for you, or to send your letters by registered mail, or by regular postal mail from Ukraine or Russia? Who is going to find your interpreters, drivers in any other cities you may decide to go to. Who are you going to rent a local cell phone from, who is going to escort you to the honest marriage agencies in whatever city you may decide to visit? Who is going to greet you at the Kiev airport, escort you to the city airport, greet you when you arrive back to Kiev, get your ticket to Lviv (or Odessa, Nikolaev, Sumy, Dnepropetrovsk), to escort you to train station, to greet you upon arrival in Lviv and get you a nice flat in the center of the city, to escort you back to the train station, to greet you in Kiev, get you a flat or hotel for the night, to greet you in the morning and escort you to Borispol airport as you depart. Try to do that on your own Frank! As you can tell, some of the advise you have been given has to be considered questionable at best. Imagine a guy going on his first trip having this much flexibility and options on his own, without any help from an honest, ethical individual or agency? Take some of the advice you are given with a grain of salt!

Frank and please, whatever you do, PLEASE be respectful to the women you see. If you make your decisions, if you make any commitments to any of these fine ladies, please honor your commitment as these are truly the worlds finest women. Please do not make any plans with any ladies and then not see them or follow thru with your plans. It is a horrible thing to do. Some ladies will go to great extremes, both financially and emotionally, in getting ready to meet a man who is coming to see them. If you go to meet one lady Frank and you realize after a day or two she is not the one for you, please do not string her out, don't use her as a "party girl". If she is real and sincere and she knows you have no interest in her as a wife, she would prefer you to go on but not to waste her time if you do not have sincere interest in her. The real, sincere ladies do not care to party with you if you do not have interest in them as a future wife and I feel it is un-fair to do that to these ladies, BUT the party girls are another story! They will party with you!! If you want to go and just visit with a party girl then a lot of the previous advice you were given would make sense. Have a "ball" with the party girl Frank, but not the sincere lady who was hoping you might be her husband, ok?

Frank, although the weather in Dallas is not as hot as it is in McAllen, it is certainly as warm and humid in Dallas as it is in Austin and San Antonio. As such many of the ladies in the DFW area do have a clue as to the heat and humidity here. Many of the ladies have written there girlfriends back home about the heat and many of those new arriving ladies are aware of the heat. Of the probably 60 to 80 Russian ladies I know in the metro-plex most think the heat and humidity here is comparable to there summers (where there is very little air-conditioning) just that the heat here last more days. Believe me, I was in Moscow during the heat wave of 1996, a LOT of people died! 100 degrees in Moscow is a lot worse than 100 degrees in Dallas. Even Odessa, on the Black Sea, has had some killer heat waves as I re-call the summer of 99 was very hot there.

There are very few experts in this industry Frank but many who want to be perceived as such, again, take all advice with a grain of salt, including mine. My advice my not be the best suited for you, but it is certainly better than some of the advice you have previously been given. Be weary of some of those who offer advice as to they may have there own hidden, dark agenda and maybe more concerned about there own motives than about the efficiency and success of your trip.

... in response to Frank, hopefully some good advice for yo..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

I appreciated you taking the time to write this Jack. I also appreciate everyones feedback on here whether I agree with it or not. I AM going over there for the sole purpose of meeting 1 lady. I'm NOT playing with her emotions & hope she isn't either. Perhaps I have approached this the wrong way but I think I'm one of those that CAN'T go se several girls at a time. I thought of perhaps using Lugan-girls to hook up with others while in Luhanks. But right now if things don't work out I think I'll know within 1-3 days I will curtail it & go to my "PLan B" which is in Mexico. I will go to Cancun with a "friend" whom I have been seeing for a while & see if there is a possibility for something long term there. I already told her I'm writing Marina & I'll be going to se her. I DO plan on using your help in purchasing my tickets from Kiev to Luhansk & for getting picked up at the airport & taken to the other one. I will contact you this weekend as I've been really busy with work. By the way I do already have a ring. Funny you should mention that in one of your posts. I guess I fit your profile to a tee. I'm also being realistic so I'm prepared should things not work out.

... in response to Frank, hopefully some good advice for yo..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

Jack,

You so many times give of your time to give advice. I have learned a lot from your posts and thus have appreciated them. The little business that you might glean from here is deserved.

You mentioned something about individuals who went to see one lady and what would they say is good about going over to meet just one lady. I am one that did this. First of all, if a guy thinks that he met the right woman for him on such a trip - he will say it was great. But, how many times does that happen? Somehow, I simply do not think that this is going to be the case most of the time, except for the guy who is not too discerning and who just will take anyone within a certain parameter so to speak. These guys do not count, also these are the guys who are IMHO the guys who are going to have more troubles percentage wise with this MOB thing.

The lady that I met, going on a one woman trip was a very attractive nice lady. It turned out that we were just really meant for each other.

My take is that the reason that a guy goes over to meet one lady might be because to see several women somewhat puts him out of his comfort zone. At some level he may relate it to dating several women at one time. Clearly this is not the case but, such subtle correlations can happen at a subtle level I would suspect. Also, many men want to be romantic and picking a woman out of a lineup is not romantic. Writing to a lady for several months and talking on the phone and then finally meeting is romantic. Having a back up plan etc is not.

So, the pragmatic approach is not going to feel right for some guys plain and simple. I am one of them.

However, after doing a one lady trip I would never do such again. For me it would be about changing perspective. If I were to go to a singles outing and there were many women there, I would certainly stroll around and see who all was there. I would narrow that down to one woman and then check her out more fully. I would not have a problem with this at all.

IMHO a man has to look at meeting several woman as nothing different than this. Who in there right mind would not want a choice?

So, the way I look at it, Frank is asking for a disappointment. He is stacking the cards against him. He may pull a royal flush or he could be dealt a bum hand. But at least at a card table you can be dealt another hand. Going all the way to Lugansk to be dealt one hand is not the wisest thing in the world to do unless, you just want an adventure and do not really care if you meet a woman that you might want to marry. That, if the case, is a whole different thing.

... in response to /, posted by thesearch on Oct 9, 2002

I agree completely with what you say..  What is a good approach for one guy is not necessarily good for another.  I could not conceive of going all the way there and meeting only one woman, I think I met about 25 on my last trip alone, but another guy would be fine with meeting just one girl and end up perfectly happy.  I envy a guy that can do that in some ways, but not in others.  To not have to go through all the correspondence and phone calls with multiple women and everything that goes along with it would be nice, but I am also glad I have met a lot of women because it has given me personally a very broad experience in knowing better just how these women think and certainly invaluable experience in being able to spot scammers.  I swear, the CIA could hire some of us to spot potential scammers at the airports and we would do a fantastic job! LOL!  
I agree with you though that it's really taking a chance meeting only one and not even having a backup plan..  I have heard so many guys say that they had been writing a woman for a year, both were totally in love and then they meet at the airport and OUCH, no chemistry in person at all!  I certainly know this happened to me a few times!  I had been writing to about 15 girls, some as long as 5 months, before I left on this last trip and I was also calling 4 or 5 pretty regularly..  Well, I end up with a woman I met THERE and had never corresponded with before! LOL!  She replied to my ad there..  Go figure! ;-)

... in response to Very well written post..., posted by Oscar on Oct 9, 2002

...this makes you a one trip wonder, as you've done a K1
with a girl you hardly know.

To each his own, but I remain amazed how anyone can justify that.

... in response to So in effect...., posted by LP on Oct 10, 2002

Well LP, I have had 4 trips and I think that experience can hardly be discounted.  I think that once a guy gains some hard won experience with these women and is able to tell the difference between a sincere girl and a scammer without much trouble, he has won half the battle.  I did plenty of research while there with her, with her family, friends, etc.. I have been calling every other day and writing this girl for 7 months now and I can say that I only continue to feel better, am increasingly impressed with her and feel very comfortable with what I know.  One thing I like very much is that she had never been in an agency before and had no desire to join one.  I also like that fact that she is now very good friends with Jacks Ukraine manager who after knowing her for 8 months, still thinks she is a gem and utterly sincere.  
So I guess what I am saying is that I do not believe it is necessary to spend 4 trips with one girl if you have the experience behind you AND you are truly ready to get married which really is something we make ourselves, in my opinion.  A man who goes for his first time and meets only one girl and goes back 3 times and spends time with only her, has a much better chance of being scammed, in my opinion..

Let's face it, whether you have met the girl on one trip or several, it ALL takes a leap of faith.  My good friend married a woman from Tver.  It was the first girl he interviewed!  He spent 45 mintues with her, that's it!  He came home, she wrote him a letter, they started writing, next time he saw her she was stepping off the plane with her 8 year old daughter!  They have now been married 2 years and are very happy..  The bottom line was, he was ready to get married, she was ready to get married.  Now to me, he was EXTREMELY lucky because he had zero experience with these women..  I certainly couldn't do it, meeting the girl for just 45 minutes, at least I had 2 weeks! ;-)    

I also will say that although hardly infallible, my profession lends itself to helping me read people very well. just like your profession may give you an advantage over others when it comes to being able to tell what the weather is going to be like just by looking at a particular type or formation of clouds.  It is something you have learned in being a pilot..  
I know what I want in a woman, I am a good communicator and I refused to settle (thus my 4 trips).  I am attracted to her, but is she the absolute most attractive woman I ever met there in 4 trips??  No.  But I can say that she is, without a doubt, the kindest, most sincere and most honest girl I met there in my 4 trips.  She's a fantastic Mother (some girls I met were not) and that's important to me..  We have discussed everything from having children and HOW to raise them, to budgets, to sex, to in-laws, and we just blend on these issues (and many more) extremely well..  I know how she handles conflict and I did not jump in to bed with her in the first 20 minutes.  I was definitely thinking with the right head..

So I guess we will see LP..  Time will tell.  

... in response to Re: So in effect...., posted by Oscar on Oct 10, 2002

....Though I fail to see how a few trips prior to meeting one girl has much bearing. All it gives you is some time with the culture. Some usefulness there, but not much as it applies to individuals. Also, the amount of communication after you met her is helpful now but somewhat putting the horse behind the plow, isn't it?

As for this: "A man who goes for his first time and meets only one girl and goes back 3 times and spends time with only her, has a much better chance of being scammed, in my opinion."...Thats just, well, its nuts to say it. Sorry. As for being "truly ready to marry", that kinda lumps you in with those who go on a social and pick one doesn't it? Seems a similiar form of desperation. Rather bizzare logic also.

Look, don't get me wrong. From what you say, she does appear to be a gem. (Then again, how objective can you be?) While you know her better now, you didn't when you made the decision to marry her and thats the part I find extremely odd. I agree it *is* a leap of faith, but the fact is if this works out it'll be mostly luck. The way you went about it, it couldn't possibly be much of anything else. A crap shoot on your part, plain and simple. Not the way most folks do things when dealing with stuff this important.

What always amazes me is that its possible to find TWO people willing to do something so odd together. Sure makes one wonder about the true motives involved.

Good luck anyway.

... in response to Fair nuff..., posted by LP on Oct 10, 2002

I hear what you're saying but the trips over were not just adjusting to "the culture" but in meeting over a hundred women..  Learning about how these women think, what many of their expectations are, their abilities (from a relationship standpoint) etc., not to mention the scam-proofing which is pretty invaluable in my book..

I really don't think it has anything to do with desperation because if that were the case, I would have just picked a woman from my first trip, it would have been extremely easy.  Believe me, there are a LOT of RW I would NOT want to be married to!  I learned what I did NOT want in a RW by dating many of them..

I will say that no matter how you slice it, dating a woman there will NEVER be the same as dating a woman here.  It cannot possibly be the same.  A guy can go to see his girl there 3 times, fine, no problem, but it will STILL amount to pretty much an arranged marriage in my opinion.  

I didn't make the "decision to marry her" in 2 weeks.  I made the decision to "bring her here", spend 3 months and hopefully marry her.  The time I spent with her was great, not because we just had nothing but fun, but because we both asked each other the tough questions.  I also delved deeply into her life with her family and friends, which was invaluable.  I felt very good about her and the fact I believed she was sincere.  I also believe in my abilty to discern.  The 7 months since have only served to ratify what I have believed about her, which is great, because I would not hesitate to put things on hold if I were feeling otherwise.  This is the value of thinking with the right head! ;-)

There really don't have to be any sinister or strange motives involved LP.. just a couple of people who want to create a life and family together.  It is mostly in our country, this idea of mad, passionate romance before marriage.. Much of the rest of the world thinks THIS is "odd"!  They find someone they have much in common with (or their relatives do) who would be a good match and they get married.  THEN the real romance can begin, after the commitment.  I am not saying this is what I would want, but many do it.  This is what many men and women did in the 1800's, when men would bring women to this country or from across the country, out west, sight unseen to marry and make a life with.  The reason some people can do this is because they know that love is really something we DO, not so much something we just feel.. it is a choice we make, to love or not to love someone..

May sound strange but, it works for me and has for others..  Appreciate the fair shake though.

... in response to Fair nuff..., posted by LP on Oct 10, 2002

I hear what you're saying but the trips over were not just adjusting to "the culture" but in meeting over a hundred women..  Learning about how these women think, what many of their expectations are, their abilities (from a relationship standpoint) etc., not to mention the scam-proofing which is pretty invaluable in my book..

I really don't think it has anything to do with desperation because if that were the case, I would have just picked a woman from my first trip, it would have been very easy.

I will say that no matter how you slice it, dating a woman there will NEVER be the same as dating a woman here.  It cannot possibly be the same.  A guy can go to see his girl there 3 times, fine, no problem, but it will STILL amount to pretty much an arranged marriage in my opinion.  

I didn't make the "decision to marry her" in 2 weeks.  I made the decision to "bring her here", spend 3 months and hopefully marry her.  The time I spent with her was great, not because we just had nothing but fun, but because we both asked each other the tough questions.  I also delved deeply into her life with her family and friends, which was invaluable.  I felt very good about her and the fact I believed she was sincere.  The 7 months since have only served to ratify what I have believed about her, which is great, because I would not hesitate to put things on hold if I were feeling otherwise.  This is the value of thinking with the right head! ;-)

There really don't have to be any sinister or strange motives involved LP.. just a couple of people who want to create a life and family together.  It is mostly in our country, this idea of mad, passionate romance before marriage.. Much of the rest of the world thinks THIS is "odd"!  They find someone they have much in common with (or their relatives do) who would be a good match and they get married.  THEN the real romance can begin, after the commitment.  I am not saying this is what I would want but many do it.  This is what many men and women did in the 1800's, when men would bring women to this country or from across the country, out west, sight unseen to marry and make a life with.  The reason some people can do this is because they know that love is really something we DO, not so much something we just feel.. it is a choice we make, to love or not to love someone..

May sound strange but, it works for me and has for others..  Appreciate the fair shake though.

... in response to Re: Fair nuff..., posted by Oscar on Oct 10, 2002

....But you'll never get me to buy into it. Marrying someone you don't know is a big risk, it just ain't natural. The more time you spend together, the better it is. I've seen so many of these go boom, I guess I'm just gunshy.

I completely agree with you that romance does not power the deal in the long run, thats always been my perspective. Can't altogher agree on the "choice to love someone" comment though. If that were true there would be lots less divorces. Remember, everyone starts out with the best intentions. I do understand the 90 day thing, I'd discounted that in my first post. After all, I've used it myself with proper results.

And I also appreciate the fair shake on the fair shake. ;-)

... in response to Fair nuff again..., posted by LP on Oct 11, 2002

About the "time together" thing..  I just don't know about that..  Sometimes I think it doesn't necessarily translate into greater success..  I know for example, that in marriages where people live together before committing to marriage, there is a higher incidence of divorce, and you would think they would know each other pretty well! ;-)

When you think of the quick marriages that you have seen go "boom" don't you think in most cases, they do it because they are infatuated and are willing to look past any possible red flags??  See, I can guarantee I'm not infatuated with this girl.. and I'm glad!  I just think she is a terrific girl, I have a ton of respect for her and feel she is the type of woman who can go the distance.. I hope I'm right.

I think the reason that there ARE more divorces is because of the fact that our country is so often misled by the media- tv, movies, etc., about the nature of what a healthy and enduring love/relationship is and is not.    

And yes, I am happy there is the 90 day window too..

... in response to Re: Fair nuff again..., posted by Oscar on Oct 11, 2002

You said:

"See, I can guarantee I'm not infatuated with this girl..."

How can you guarantee that?

Isn't the whole point of being infatuated?

After all, infatuated (last time I looked) means "To make foolish; to weaken the intellectual powers of, or to deprive of sound judgment."

So... if you ARE infatutated... how would you know it?

I'm not saying that you are or you aren't... I'm just wondering how you can make such a statement? Unless you are saying: "Hey, I barely even like this girl, so I know I'm not infatuated!" That would make sense.

But if you start with the premise that you think she is a terrific girl... and that you are in love... how can you POSSIBLY guarantee that you are not infatuated?

I mean, I don't THINK I am infatuated... but I wouldn't go so far as to give a "Joe Namath" guarantee on it...

... in response to How can you guarantee that?, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 11, 2002

I do know how I behave when I have been infatuated.  I know how I behave when I am not infatuated.  I don't think it is difficult to notice the difference.  Many people I know, male and female will admit at times when they are "whipped" on somebody.  They know it.  They are impatient, they try to rush things, they are overly physical immediately, they think of nothing else but this person, wait by the phone, don't eat or sleep that well..  It's not that difficult to observe, even in oneself in my opinion.  I can honestly say that the women I HAVE been truly infatuated with have always seemed to be the very worst women for me..

Don't get me wrong, being "infatuated" (therapists call this nothing more than "sexual attraction") is a great feeling!  BUT it is an out of control feeling, not a calm and secure feeling.  It is not a good thing to be feeling strongly in making important decisions..  It often gets people married, but when it wears off (and it always does, not that it cannot be recaptured at times if a couple works at it) often they then hit the pavement flat as they actually don't have things in common, don't have similar values and goals nor a great friendship.  They just had the "hots" for each other and when it wears down, they have nothing..  They most often completely ignore red flags and can usually admit that even while still in the relationship!  

So yes, I know I am not infatuated and again, I'm glad.  I have a very high respect for my girl, I am attracted but I have been as attracted to other women.  I feel very calm about it, I am not in a rush.  I have been waiting now 120 days for my approval and as much as I would like to have her here before Thanksgiving, I am not freaking out or dying or anything.  I genuinely like her more and more as a potential partner and friend as time has gone on.

I think you are definitely more infatuated than I am Mark.  I'm not saying it is either good or bad, just not what I personally want.  You made quite a few comments about the sex and christening beds etc.. I believe you had said quite a while ago (If I am remembering it wrong, I apologize) that you were in bed with your girl 20 minutes after first meeting her when you got there for the first time (I realize you had corresponded, but still, 20 minutes ain't being a slouch! ;-)  If that's true (and I do hope I have not misquoted you, it has been a while since that report) I would say you definitely would qualify for infatuation status.  I am NOT "judging" you for it, it's just not for me.  You said you really couldn't afford to go back and see her that well right now (again, that is what I seem to remember, if I am incorrect, I apologize) yet you went for just a week or so recently again and I think you were planning to also go for her interview as well..  So I think you are pretty "whupped" in a sense.  And if that is ok for you, that's good..  I just feel differently about it.  
I hope you will know that NONE of what I have said here is intended as any kind of put-down..  We have not seen eye to eye much lately but I am being honest about that..

Later

... in response to Re: How can you guarantee that?, posted by Oscar on Oct 11, 2002

Geez... you weren't paying attention... It was more like ten ;-)

(Ohmigod! Don't let Barry M know, or I will be getting a lecture...)

Well... maybe it was closer to twenty... I wasn't watching the clock to be honest...

However, I'm not sure that the fact that I went back over to spend her birthday with her, and am planning on going back over for the interview is an indication that I am "whupped". I think it is more that I am A) in a financial position to afford it, and B) in a job where I have flown over a million miles with a certain airline, and so have tons of Frequent Flyer miles.

I'll bet if you could fly to Ukraine for free that you would have gone back before now, wouldn't you?

As for being in Love (call it infatuation if you will) I've never denied it. In fact, beyond that, I would NOT marry a woman that I weren't in love with. Which to me is different than a woman I love. I can "learn" to love someone. I can make a decision to love someone. But being in Love... you just don't have much control over that.

I was looking for that before I made the commitment. I had plenty of women that I could have married from here. I even had one in Russia, and one in Brazil that I could have married. I knew that they were good people, and I could have loved them. But I was not IN love with them.

I don't apologize for that.

Can Love blind us to truths, and lead us to make a mistake?

Oh, sure.

But marrying without Love is a far greater mistake, in my opinion.

But... hey... that's just me :-)

... in response to 20 Minutes???, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 11, 2002

Again, I guess it depends on your interpretation of what "Love" is..

I must have misunderstood because I had thought that you had said you were not currently in a great financial position right at the moment, when we spoke privately about whether or not you were going to go back for the interview..  Perhaps I misunderstood.  It's certainly possible.

You have forgotten though, that I DO actually have about 150,000 sky miles with Delta.  I will likely be using some of them (don't know how many miles it would be for her 7 year old son yet, I haven't checked, probably the full 50K).  So I actually could fly there for free for her interview.  But we talked about it and she told me that as much as she would love to see me, she felt it would be silly for me to use all those free miles in going there for just 2 or 3 days for her interview.  She says she is a big girl and is not afraid to go herself.  She would rather have me save the miles so we can use them later for a trip together if we wish..  I feel the same, so I was happy to hear it..  I personally think it is silly to go for the interview because they are pretty minimal..  My one friend went back for his girls interview and felt it was a total waste of time and money and if he were to do it again, he wouldn't go.  Of course if the girl is very afraid or worried about it, then I think it would be nice if a guy could go for her..

When you say that people don't have any control over "being in love", that's not what I believe..  I have fallen "in love" with a few women that I chose NOT to love or pursue things with.  I did not give in to those feelings or ignore the warning flags, seeing that it would have been a very poor choice to pursue it.  Sure, it takes some will power, but it is definitely do-able..  There are many therapists Mark, who feel that people really are incapapble of truly "loving" a person until you have been married for at least a few years.. I don't know about that myself, but it's interesting.

Just don't forget to ask the "hard" questions of each other Mark..  Sometimes people who are infatuated have a tendency to not want to ask those questions, (I am not saying you have NOT asked them of each other) fearing that they might hear an answer they don't like, that might destroy their dream..  Personally, I feel there should be a test before being allowed to get a marriage license of these types of questions!  "How do both of you feel about finances and budgeting, about in-laws and child rearing"... etc., etc., It may not sound romantic, but I think a lot more divorces might be averted..  It would probably stimulate a LOT of conversation before the license was handed to couples, some of whom would perhaps have no clue how their intended might feel on these issues until that moment!

... in response to Re: 20 Minutes???, posted by Oscar on Oct 11, 2002

....are a panic. No offense, but I've four things to say:

1) He's right Oscar, you can't be objective about it.

2) Neither can he. Me thinks you're both infatuated.
Real love after a one or two meetings? Drunken man talk.

3) Both of you are drowning in the largest tub of RediWhip
I've ever seen.

4) Frequent Flyer miles? Lol, you're breakin my heart.

... in response to You two...., posted by LP on Oct 12, 2002

I don't think you have read my particular posts on this very well LP..  You can certainly speak for yourself, but you cannot speak for me, my feelings and experiences, nor Marks for that matter, but he can speak for himself.

1) I know I am not infatuated and I have stated how I know this.  

2) I never once intimated that I possess a "real love" as you say..  I have said I have feelings, respect and friendship, but I did not say otherwise.  I KNOW that "real love" will take time, I accept that, stated as much and have no illusions about it.

3) I don't like Rediwhip or Cool whip either for that matter.  I have already said I don't feel it is a good place to deal from.  Using the larger head is smarter..

4) And what is wrong with frequent flyer miles?  I realize it might be pretty remedial for you as a pilot to think much of them, but to some of us who don't have or know people who have free fly privlages, it's nice to be able to take a few free trips with them, I don't see why it would be something to look down on or belittle..

... in response to Re: You two...., posted by Oscar on Oct 12, 2002

.....big fella, I'm only pullin yer leg.

Actually, you do make more sense than he does at times. Still, I maintain it's tough for the individual involved to be objective. But your logic has some merit and, being the way I am, it's hard to argue with some of it.

Btw, the RediWhp reference was not as you took it. And nothing against frequent fliers, I'd be lost without 'em.

... in response to East there......, posted by LP on Oct 12, 2002

.

... in response to Re: Fair nuff..., posted by Oscar on Oct 10, 2002

.

... in response to Fair nuff..., posted by LP on Oct 10, 2002

I have a friend who made 3 trips coincidentally & it appeared things were ok. There were a lot of red flags in my opinion. It just happened we BOTH wrote the same girl & he wrote me after finding one of my letters. To make a long story short we're friends now, pretty good ones I would say (I stopped writing her as I was turned off by her). Well she MISSED TWO APPOINTMENTS to Warsaw!!! Of course she WILL NEVER go because she is scamming him. He has started to write other girls but is still trying to salvage this (I have no idea why). Anyways I've seen it happen. As for the time thing I don't know. I got engaged to my ex wife 3 weeks after I met her. However I KNEW after my first conversation with her she was it. We were married 7 years. We had no children & she had a great opportunity (career) open for her in Rome, Italy & wanted to move. I didn't so we parted VERY amicably. I later regretted but too late. Anyways just to make an issue of the time factor. As my situation which I know I've gotten a lot of flak for, yes I'm going to see 1 girl. I've written her going on a year & call her regularly. She doesn't ask for money. However we BOTH realize that I can show up & meet her & there is a chance there will be no chemistry. That's IS a leap of faith. One I'm willing to take. I give myself 3 days to find out. If not MY PLAN B IS IN MEXICO. I won't go into detail but my plan b is not living in Ukrains (barring some lady popping out of left field & stealing my heart which I doubt). I'm prepared for it. I'm looking for a wife be it in Luhansk Ukraine or Reynosa Mexico. I'm NOT risking much with the Latina. In Ukraine I guess I'm out the price of my ticket & meals etc. But I don't look at it that way. Anyways I'm rambling but I appreciate EVERYONE's input in my matter. You guys have been more helpful than you might think.

... in response to Very well written post..., posted by Oscar on Oct 9, 2002

Exactly Oscar,

You ended up with someone that you never had corresponded with versus ending up with one of the ladies that you were initially interested in.

IMHO --- Not wise to go and meet one lady and if a guy does, he has no room to complain if things do not work out.

... in response to /, posted by thesearch on Oct 9, 2002

Greg,

Was this a typo?

You said:

"It turned out that we were just really meant for each other. "

An attractive Lady... you were meant for each other... what happened???

... in response to Frank, hopefully some good advice for yo..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

Except I don't agree that anybody needs their hand holding all the time, Ukraine really ain't that scary!!

... in response to Good comments, posted by Pordzhik on Oct 9, 2002

Thanks, but I really emphasis seeking a little "hand holding" for one's first trip. And would you not agree?

... in response to Good comments, posted by Pordzhik on Oct 9, 2002

thanks for the paragraphing, makes it much easier to follow.

... in response to Frank, hopefully some good advice for yo..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

nt

... in response to Frank, hopefully some good advice for yo..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

I have to say this was some very good advise and food for thought, for anyone in this pursuit. I'm glad that you present the "One Woman" vs. "Many Women" issue in a neutral unbiased point of view.

I wish more men would promote the idea of respecting these women as you suggest. It's good that you point that out.

Chris

... in response to Frank, hopefully some good advice for yo..., posted by Jack on Oct 8, 2002

Take this guys advice livelong and prosper.  I really have no more advice than this I am the one-woman kind of guy and enjoy my time traveling.  I am not however they guy with a ring in my pocket as I am in no hurry.  I would say don’t be in any hurry just go and have some fun.  In saying this I always get a kick out of you southern boys who go to the Ukraine or Russia in the winter months.  I am from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan so I know what cold is and I believe that these FSU areas can be even colder.  Don’t get off that plane in some big winter coat looking like the Michelin man (That character in the tire commercial) with some big puffy coat and start crying about how you are cold.  You will come over as something less than a man and these women are looking for real men.   Don’t cry about the dirty water or the lack of heat or how you were inconvenienced here or there, again it makes you come across as something less than a man.  Just be a stand up guy and say no problem keep your mouth shut so that your teeth don’t chatter and your voice low so as not stops someone on the streets or attract attention.  Walk with a purpose, make all the decisions, hold your woman close and you will be fine.