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I told her about several of the things posted here. Here is her 2 cents. She say most men that write girls write the teens or early 20's girls that look like models. She say there are MANY girls who are in their 30's  that don't get responses or many who are young but not "models" when it comes to looks. By the way mine is LITERALLY a "model". She also says that men always lay the line about looks don't matter it's the inner quality but obviously they are not writing them because of that. THEN she said MOST men writing them are in their 40's or 50's  & NOT VERY HANDSOME (her words) but expect these young girls to fall in love with them because they are Americans & have "money". She says that is one of their biggest turn offs. She said the men "expect" to find a gorgeous young girl for them. She said she did not blame the girls for scamming the guys but the GUYS as they are SO GULLIBLE. She also said my letter interested her because of all the negative I hit her with off the bat; I'm divorced, not a dr or atty but a musician, did not brag about $$, did not claim to be attractive etc & that perked her interest. Then I mentioned about all these girls who ASKED ME to marry them etc & we found a lot of common ground. Anyways so far so good. Of course anything can happen when I go over there. We could meet & not click at all. WE BOTH realize this & have discussed it at length. Anyways I have to agree as I've seen so many men with girls that are waving red flags all over the place & they continue to fork out cash for them & get emotinally attached to where they are being taken advantage of. Oh well to each their own. I just thought I'd share a girls perspective on this.
Frank O
PS what I thought was funny was after all this she said rather sarcasticaly I haven't received a picture of you in a long time could you send me a RECENT one?! LO!L!!

... in response to My Ukrainian girls 2 cents..., posted by Frank O on Oct 5, 2002

LITERALLY  a model huh? I'm sure she'll be ecstatic in 900 sq. ft. in Mexico....I mean McCallen.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: My Ukrainian girls 2 cents..., posted by Mark H on Oct 6, 2002

she did some modeling which I don't even think she probably got paid for. As for the sarcasm meant about my home I OWN (they're paid for) 2 homes & will inheriting one more. How many homes do you own?

... in response to once again..., posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

Frank (and others),
Like the USA, there are many semi-legit modeling agencies/schools in the FSU that are more than willing to take a young girls money in exchange for feeding her dreams of becoming a model.  Even though the spendable income is no where near as large there as it is here, the agencies/schools are still quite popular because of the FSU women awareness of fashion.
-
Lena, my wife, attended one of these schools and actually did some print work for a cosmetics store in her city.  She also was approached by the agency to do some "modeling" in a foreign country.  After a "Yeah, right" reply, she left the "modeling" agency.  The agency owner tried to convince her that even if she had to do more than "modeling" that it would be a great assignment.  Now, Lena has always been a sharpe girl and didn't fall for her BS, but how many others did?
KenC

... in response to once again..., posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

Frank,
One. By the way, don't bother trying to compare finances with me. YOu have yours, I have mine.  :)

Mark H.

... in response to Re: once again..., posted by Mark H on Oct 6, 2002

great thanks for responding I appreciate the feedback on the other post.

... in response to My Ukrainian girls 2 cents..., posted by Frank O on Oct 5, 2002

but you have this idea that you have been through more than anybody on this board?........at 33?.............how much money you got to lose?
Anytime a person makes a statment like this they are in justification mode. In 3 months you may too be claiming you got scammed........an in reality maybe your girl just does not want a guy who hangs out with prositutes. Like most of us you think you have the hottest thing in the FSU.
Again at 33............come on. At least at 33 I realized I knew nothing. I did not know everything until I was 18-I forgot it all.
So good luck and if you still think you have been through sooooo much-you better think twice-you know nothing of people on this board.
Joe

... in response to do not take this personal..., posted by joe on Oct 6, 2002

I don't take it personal I think you are just taking things out of context. The comment which I made was to a VERY specific subject not that I knew more or had more experience over all. By the way I don't hang out with prostitutes buddy. That was when I was a kid (teenager). So don't go around assuming anything.

... in response to Re: do not take this personal..., posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

I DON'T know anyone on this board that's why I've been trying to get to know everyone because I RESPECT their opinions AND experiences good or bad.

... in response to My Ukrainian girls 2 cents..., posted by Frank O on Oct 5, 2002

RUN Frank!

... in response to My Ukrainian girls 2 cents..., posted by Frank O on Oct 5, 2002

a euphemism for prostitute.  Now I didn't say this, OK?  Any way there must be SOME truth to this 'legend', so be very careful.  You don't want to get burned at this stage.  Maybe some of the other guys who are married can ask their wives what it means if a woman says she is a 'model'.  I'd be curious to see if they have the same reaction as the RW I've met.

Stevo

... in response to Every RW that i've talked to has said th..., posted by Stevo on Oct 5, 2002

I always thought that model = scam bait.

So many guys want to say they married a model.

Of all of the "occupations: I saw listed, I think that the largest rankings were (in order)

Model
Doctor
Economist

I can't tell you how many drop dead gorgeous 23 year old "doctors" I saw back when I was searching. Amazing...

I think it was mainly that some guys got off on dating a doctor or a model.

Or, maybe there are super model doctor economists running around the FSU in packs?

... in response to Every RW that i've talked to has said th..., posted by Stevo on Oct 5, 2002

about being a model. I've seen her "modeling" photos. She is a student at a university in Luhansk & does some modeling. It's not like they pay her I don't think. I think many girls do this. As for the prostitute thing I'l be honest man if she were it wouldn't phase me that much. I'm going to take a LOT of flak for this but I used to date/be involved with a young lady who WAS a prostitute. If she were to give it up I would have married her honestly. I LOVED her. I don't expect many here to understand & it doesn't matter to me really. She was from Mexico & things are pretty hard over there. She paid for her sister to get through college, & paid for the roof over their heads as her dad was a deadbeat. Anyways if she WAS a model I guess I would deal with it at that point. So there you have it. Having said that I hope she is not. I don't know if I want to go THAT route again!

... in response to model...prostitute, posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

Frank, in another post below you say-

"Marriage is obviously THE most important relationship in our lives next to our relationship with God."

And in this one you say that if your girl happens to be a prostitute, it wouldn't phase you that much?  I think what Mark said about a prostitutes lifestyles and way of thinking is very accurate.    
Marriage is difficult at best.. and with a foreign spouse even more challenging perhaps, but to add her being a prostitute on top of all that???  Man, that is just simply insane..

In my opinion you are setting yourself up for a major failure here..  You have never been to the FSU before yet you are going to the scam capital of Ukraine (Lugansk) to meet only one girl, who says she is a "model" (I'm not saying she isn't just that) but who other guys here seem think is a red flag for possibly being a prostitute, and if she IS a prostitute, you don't seem to have a problem becoming involved with her regardless as you have fallen for a prostitute before..

This is what I mean when I say that guys must pay their dues as far as getting their own experience with the FSU.  You can go the way you are headed with in my opinion, little chance of success, or you can listen to what the guys who have paid their dues have to say and use the benefit of their experience..  But if you are willing to actually marry a prostitute Frank, I think you have a relationship death wish that nobody here is going to be able to help you much with..

Best of luck
Oscar  

... in response to model...prostitute, posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

I'm not going to get into a morality debate.

But let me take a different tack...

In Brazil, it is somewhat common for young college girls to put themselves through college by turning tricks on the side. If a girl comes from a poor family, it is almost the only way she can get a degree.

The euphemism that they use is: "Being on the program."

OK... so, you can say: sure, why not? They sell what they have. They get their education to better themselves... why not?

Here's why not: Because money that is gotten this way is "easy money" and it is different.

Have you ever known a stripper? My ex sister in law was a stripper, so I got to know a lot of them. They would make $800 a night -- CASH.

And I never knew ONE of them who made her car payments on time. I knew a LOT who were "students." They were wanting to be teachers, or admins, or what have you. But they never did. Why?

Because who wants to go be a teacher, work 60 hours a week, and take home $1000 when a stripper does more than that by working 8 hours in a weekend?

It was easy money.

In Brazil, I was talking to someone who told me that they knew a lot of girls who "used to be on the program." The got their degrees. Got married. And whenever things got a little tight financially -- or if she wanted something new for the house or something -- guess what she would do to pick up extra cash?

Or... let me put it this way:

Suppose your girl WERE a prostitute? Then she already has made the decision that it is OK to sell the use of her body for a period of time in order to make financial gain.

Hmmmm... think she's going to have a problem with lying to you, making you think she loves you, marrying you, letting you have sex for a period of time... and then leaving you for financial gain?

If you honestly think so... why? What's the difference? You don't think that a good hooker can make a man think he's special?

Do it if you want... but don't come back here crying when she leaves you in 2 years...

My fiance told me that in Ukraine they have an expression. (She says this is the mild translation of it:)

"You bought what you saw in the store."

... in response to Prostitutes, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 6, 2002

Everyday you go to work, your a prositute... after all where did the term "bend over here it comes again" come fromm.

Some folks, just get more than others.

... in response to Re: Prostitutes, posted by wsbill on Oct 7, 2002


Really?

Shucks, then I'm underpaid... And I should also demand that my comapny starts paying me cash in advance...

Maybe Dan can whip out his good ol' American Standard Dictionary and post a defniition of: Prostitute.

It's obvious that you and I have remarkably different definitions...

... in response to Prostitutes, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 6, 2002

[This message has been edited by Michael B]

Five people in a room...obviously 1 couple visiting in the home of another couple, the fifth person is a baby sleeping in a cradle. One woman, dressed as a hooker, is waving goodbye as she goes out the door. Her husband says to the other couple "Of course we're finally getting back on our feet financialy, now that Nancy's able to go back to her part time job"

I'm sure the cartoon was meant to be funny, but it sounds exactly like the Brazilan situation you described above.

... in response to Prostitutes, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 6, 2002

I don't have ANY intentions of marrying a prostitute so no sense in keeping bringing this up.

... in response to Prostitutes, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 6, 2002

I dont' know how this came up. I mention she did some modeling because of her comments now everyone's trying to make her out a prostitute. Man gimme a break. As for prostitutes having been raised in South Texas with Reynosa's Red Light District being a part of growing up I probably (I'm ashamed to admit it) have a LOT more experience than anyone on this board. Not to mention the fact that I've gone out with several (not work for free) in my past. But the bottom line is my girl is a student & she has some modeling pics. Sometimes perhaps you guys read too much into something.

... in response to my girl is not a prostitute..., posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

Frank,

That is the only thing that people can do -------- is read into things.

That being said, yes you may be correct. However, if there is some truth of things being read into, the fact that these comments were made, will remain in the back of your mind and they might, just might get you to see something that you might not have seen in your lady.

... in response to Every RW that i've talked to has said th..., posted by Stevo on Oct 5, 2002

I don't know if anyone remembers, but back when Michael Irving was found in a hotel room with coke, he was also in the company of two: "Freelance Models." That's exactly the way the paper would refer to them. Yeah... right... freelance models, eh? Hmmmm...

Anyway... Frank. Since you and this girl seem to talk a bout everything. Did you ask her where she has modeled?

... in response to Just like Michael Irving's "model&q..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 5, 2002

no I really don't care for it. The photos that were on the agency I saw her at were obviously modeling pics. She is dang beautiful! But like if you read my other post I really don't care. She is not a "model" like a Cosmopolitan model or anything. I think a lot of "modeling" agencies honestly take these photos to SELL THEM to marriage/dating agencies!!! People respond & the agencies get money. Think about it.

... in response to no, posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

So? If an agency took the picture and the marriage ageny posts it... what makes you think its not a scam?

What makes you think that she is even real?

Have you had flowers delivered to her? Talked to her on the phone? (You may have... I just might not have remembered it...)

... in response to I have thought about it... have you?, posted by MarkInTx on Oct 6, 2002

Yes I have had flowers delivered & spoken to her on the phone. Yet, there IS always the chance she is not "real". I'm prepared for it. I think I've been through more crap than most of you here so I doubt it will faze me. It will HURT I know that obviously as I'm attached emotionally to her however not attached to the point that I will allow myself to go through pain for it.

... in response to Re: I have thought about it... have you?, posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

You didn't happen to use her own agency to deliver the flowers... did you?

... in response to Umm..., posted by MarkInTx on Oct 6, 2002

no. But thanks for the concern. I understand everyone is playing devils advocate for MY own safetyl & I REALLY appreciate that.

... in response to Re: Umm...no, posted by Frank O on Oct 6, 2002

If you have her address outside of the agency, that is a good sign.

If you had flowers delivered to her by someone other than the agency, and they took a picture of her... that is also a good sign.

Who'd you use to deilver the flowers, btw? Do they deliver anywhere in Ukriane? Or are they just local?