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Guys, I pretty much winged it through Russia and that, since I travelled a lot in EUrope anyway. I read a lot about scams, and scammers from east europe, I am interested to know if anyone knows, or thinks there is more less or the same amount of scam going on in Latinos and asians. or is it just a russian thing

HC.

There does seem to be an increase in honest, ethical agencies in the FSU, even though it is a small increase. With the Internet being able to expose scam agencies so quickly, it seems many scam agencies are having a shorter life span. Many of these scam agencies just change names after getting caught. A good sign for new guys might be to consider how long the FSU agency they are dealing with has been in business. Most the FSU scam agencies are not staying around so long. Now in America we don't have the high percentage of scam agencies, but then the scam agencies here can stay around for some time!

It doesn't matter. Take your time to get to know people on an individual basis. See the same woman/women three or more times in her country. Meet her friends and family. Take some trips together. Do the things you'd do in your own country to get to know her better. Cool your jets. Use your imagination and courage. Enjoy the journey. More than anything, work on establishing good rapport with the lady/ladies. Call and e-mail a lot. Then you will know about the motivations of these individuals. The truth always comes out. Be patient.

This is certainly not the only way to succeed, but no one should bring someone to their country that they haven't taken the time to know and who they doubt.

Also, if you don't send money until you have met face-to-face and hit it off, it's pretty hard to get burnt. A good, sincere Russian/Ukrainian woman WILL NOT ask you for money. If you think you can buy somebody, buy a relationship, you need to completely rethink this and start all over again. Throwing money at someone is a dysfunctional replacement for real communication. If money is used with the intent to jump start a relationship, or to take a relationship to the next level, when you haven't even met the person face-to-face, or barely know each other even after a visit, this is a recipe for disaster.

Some think that this so-called MOB relationship is very attractive because there is a possibility that you can just choose each other and get married to pretty much a complete stranger. It does happen. However, I think that these international relationships, if done right, are much more work than domestic ones. So much must be overcome to communicate well. It normally does take quite a bit of money to travel the globe on a somewhat regular basis to meet people. It takes much more time, effort and patience to communicate with someone whose native language is different and culture is probably opposite in many ways. I think this is the hard way to do it, if you do it right. I have heard of cases where people make one visit and its a done deal. I wish them and everyone the very best. However, in my experience, this is very, very hard work!

There are too many paranoid men who jump at what they think are red flags, but aren't. These women want a better life. This means better in the domains of love and material comfort. Otherwise, they'd be happy to stay home. The material comfort part freaks out a lot of guys, fearing that this is what the women are all about, but be realistic. Women in your own country expect the same, and they may be able to improve their material comfort on their own. It's universal. And even the somewhat educated know that material comfort alone does not equal happiness. I think everyone wants it all-- guys and girls want love and material comfort.

Most guys from first-world countries can easily offer more material comfort. So that leaves the love part. That's supposed to be the easy and natural part. We get messages from trolls all the time that guys in this pursuit are losers. That word is so generic, it hardly has any meaning. However, if you've had problems with relationships in the past because of some personal shortcomings (it can't ALWAYS be the woman's fault), all those problems will come out again and may even eventually be magnified in a so-called MOB relationship. One problem we hear about is that guys become unglued by jealousy when their very beautiful Russian woman marries them. Some guys freak out, try to make the woman a slave, forbidding her to leave the house and have a job and her own degree of reasonable independence. The police sometimes have to get involved because the poor bastard becomes a psycho. This is just one example of what sometimes happens. If you know or suspect you have some area(s) to work on that are keeping you from having a good relationship, get some self-help books-- work on your problems. Maybe see a counselor. Be a man and face your problems head on. If you know you are a social retard (but brilliant in other areas), do something about it! We will repeat things unless we change. If we change, all is possible. The best relationship of your life is waiting for you to prepare for it. Then you'll be ready for it, and it for you.

About choosing between East Europeans and Asians or whatever, go with what is most attractive for you. This is bound to get me in big trouble, but I saw this guy's e-mail book about dating Russians. In it, he mentioned going through an Asian phase. He said that when he was out on the town with his Asian girlfriend and later wife, he harbored embarassment at being with her, though he didn't show it and absolutely didn't want to admit to himself that he felt this way. (He didn't seem a racist to me-- this was hard for hi to admit.) Once he started dating Russians, however, he felt the opposite-- he was very proud to be with her/them. There was no nagging, irritating feeling that he was with the wrong person.

Something to think about.

Poor Kerpal-- here I am responding to his innocent question and I went off into all these areas. "You" in my message doesn't mean you, Kerpal! I in no way meant to suggest that you need to see a counselor!

Nice job

I think you always have to worry about the BIG scam -- the lady gets over here, gets the green card, and divorces you and wants alimony.

That said, I don't think it is a prevalant as most people seem to think.

As far as the "wife comes over and leaves you" I would think that the incidence is higher for a Latina... since it is so easy for them to fade into our culture. Especially here in Texas (or in California.)

Texas is almost a bi-lingual state now, and there are huge pockets of Spanish only culture, so a girl from Colombia would have little problem ditching her husband and getting along just fine here.

It's not as easy for a Russian lady to do that.

Most areas have a high incidence of Asian culture, too.

So, if I were to guess (and this is just a guess) I would say that the chance of getting taken for a "little scam" (i.e. pay for email that is fake, or tricked into buying gifts, or whatever) the chances are much greater in the FSU.

Once the lady is here, I would say it reverses, with SOB leading the way, followed by the Asians.

This isn't to say that all women who leave their men are scammers. Many well-intentioned women find out that it is just too hard to make it with the guy.

I'm just saying that it is hardest for a Russian woman to make that decision, IMHO, since she has so much more culture to over-come. (Unless, of course, she speaks fluent English when she comes here... then all bets are off...)

FWIW, that's my thinking...

There seem to be lots of men who scream SCAM because their St Petersburg girl, used to walking to the ballet & museums ends up in suburban nowhere without a car, then after a few months of hanging around the house, watching TV she can't understand, and going on boring fishing trips to mud lake on the weekends, decides maybe life in America isn't all Beverly Hills 91210 and takes off. Is that really a scam, or more a misunderstanding?

All three areas, Asia, LA and FSU have girls who are trying to lure mr rich gringo into sending them some Yankee dollars. From what I read on these three boards, the Russian scammers are certainly the most sophisticated, and will carry the deception to greater lengths. I've never heard of a Colombiana or Filipina getting much more creative than, "my mom is sick, can you help out?"

I'd also say most newbies spend far too much effort worryng about scams. The vast majority are pretty obvious and if people would just think a bit about what they're doing, the chances of getting scammed are pretty slim. That being said, I'm sure that every day some 50 year old balding overweight Wall Mart security guard is down at the Western Union office wiring money off to a drop dead gorgeous 26 year old blonde Moscow doctor who he's never met so she can get an expidited tourist visa to come see him.

- Jeff S.

You know, Moscow doctor makes 100 times less money than WallMart security guard...

Good post. I agree with your sentiments.

You may be right about the Asian/American marriage having the highest success rate. I do think that the Asian culture is more conducive to being adaptive, and so the Asian woman probably has a better start at making life work in a new country and culture.

I think that this might be a good study for a graduate student looking to earn an "A."  I have spent many years in the Navy on the west coast, including Guam and the Phillippines.  In fact one ship I was on in Guam, about 40% of the men were married to women from the Phillippines and I must say that a great many of these marriages ended up in divorce or were strained.  Granted, many of these women had previous lives as hookers, but many did not.  When the men headed out to sea, the women were adorning themselves to go out to the clubs.

I believe that were a country's morality is substandard, rules of ethical behavior is gray, and marriage is not taught as an absolute commitment for life, then divorce rates coincide with these cultural norms.

In contrast, the men that are married to Asian women from Japan, China or Korea, seem to have more lasting marriages. Of course this is just my observation, but would love to see stats about all of this.

I also hunch that marrying a hooker or a stripper probably brings the averages down, too...

I do know that I spoke with some guys on the Asian board. I was concerned about the religion difference back when I was thinking about dating some Asian women.

The guy told me that the Bhuddist religion is more of a philosophy than a religion, and it taught the participant to accept all things.

Kind of like the one half of the serenity prayer without the other... Just the "Help me accept the things I cannot change..." And that's it.

It seemed to me that this would be highly conducive to making a marriage work.

I dunno, though. I've never been married to a Bhuddist...

(And wouldn't want to be, to be honest...)

Makes you long for the woman who just grabs her green card and goes, huh?

Memo to me... memo to me... "Never complain about your wife's coffee..."