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Hi everyone,

Long time no post for me :P

I am hoping to hear from anyone who has experienced (or has knowledge of) getting married to a Ukrainian woman .. in Ukraine.

I've already asked the consular section in Ukraine some questions, but I would really like to get some first hand experiences too.

One of my biggest questions is whether or not I must actually be in Ukraine for a certain specified length of time before I am allowed to get married there, to a Ukrainian citizen. I have other questions too.

The other thing I would like to know... are there any of you out there in the vicinity of central Texas? I mean within the greater Austin area, or nearby?

Hoping to get a response or two..

Peace,

-Deckard

P.S. Rags, e-mail sent.

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

I've some info you are interested in.

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

Hey Deckard,

I'm in Austin and planning on getting married early next year to a lady from Novosibirsk. I know of 2 other ladies from Novosibirsk married and living here. One is my Lera's college friend. I know there are other ladies here from Russia and the Ukraine. You can contact me at philip@warner.net

Good Luck!
Phil

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

I went to school in Austin (for my "higher education" :)) and I still live in the general area.  What do you need to know?

... in response to Austintatious, posted by johnnydudeman on Aug 28, 2002

Hi johnnydudeman,

I was hoping to get in touch with people who have done or are doing what Luda and I are doing, and that are in the general vicinity of Austin.

And it would be great for Luda to eventually be able to meet other FSU women who are going through or have gone through something similar as she.

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

Deckard,
I'd be interested in knowing what you find out. Are you in Austin? I'm in Abilene, from San Antonio originally. I get down that way quite a bit. It has been a long time since you posted, what's new?

Mark H.

... in response to Re: a couple of things, posted by Mark H on Aug 28, 2002

Hi Mark,

I'm glad to see someone here remembers me :).

As far as what I've found out, it's not much, but I'm starting to get confused, seeing as how I originally thought I was going to file a K-1, than an I-130, and now from the people who have responded to my post so far, I'm thinking of going back to a K-1. But then I'll probably hear about the "K-5" and get confused all over again, hehe :).

I'll basically do almost whatever it takes to marry Luda in Ukraine, but still be able to bring her over in about 3-5 months. The K-1 seems to fit that criteria, and I don't mind that I won't be marrying her in the states. We'll just have some kind of party after she arrives to celebrate her arrival, our reunion, and our marriage. That way my friends and relatives wouldn't be completely left out, and it'd give her a chance to meet everyone and vice versa.

I'm originally from Ft. Worth, but I've spent much of my life outside of Texas, only returning in '89. I've been in Austin ever since then.

Not too much new that's exciting. My relationship with my fiancee has grown over the last year, and we've noticed that our relationship is growing stronger as time passes. We e-mail several times everyday, and I call her nearly everyday, sometimes twice a day (yes, my phonebill puts a large damper on my savings). One year has passed since I first met her, and again since we became engaged, and if I don't see her before October 8th, it will have been one year since I've seen her.

It's been *REALLY* hard sometimes for both of us, and I feel it has definitely made us stronger. I know that it will be another major test after she is here one day, but as we grow closer (despite our physical distance right now), I become less worried also.

After some effort, I am able to get a leave of absence from my job. I'm not sure yet how long they'll give me, but I believe I should be able to take at least 7 or more weeks off. I hope to leave with my mother in early October to Ukraine (Crimea), where I will stay for the duration of whatever length of time my job gave me, and where Luda and I shall get married. My mother will probably return after Luda and I are married, as we'll have a honeymoon there in Crimea, somewhere along the coast of the Black Sea.

So that's the latest.

I've watched this board on and off, and I'm sure I've missed a lot. I don't think I've made a post in months, either.

Anything new with you?

Thanks for asking,

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to The latest, posted by Deckard on Aug 29, 2002

Deckard,
Sounds like you've come a long way and your almost to the finish line. Abilene is new! And I'm not sure how long I'll be here, we'll see. Let's just say it's not the dating mecca of the world! : )   As for the FSU thing, I write one girl daily, she's in Ukraine. I'm planning a trip hopefully next month, my Anesthesia boards are looming and they keep getting put off.....

Best of luck to you and Luda, sounds great. I bet your mom is just going to love Crimea.

Mark H.

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

Do you know, if you are going to bring this Ukrainian person to the USA, it is much easier to bring a fiancé and marry in USA. But it is even more difficult and takes more time to bring "Ukrainian wife" (husband) to the USA!

... in response to Re: a couple of things, posted by Marinka on Aug 28, 2002

Hi Marinka,

Thanks for your input :).

I wasn't glad to hear it, but the saying "ignorance is bliss" would have come back to bite me in this case :P

I'm thinking of marrying her in Ukraine, and not telling the states, and instead just filing a K-1.

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

No experience with Ukraine.

I married in Uzbekistan at the ZAGS office.  There was a 30 day residency requirement but it was waived due to special circumstances ($).

After returning home I filed an I-130 with the TSC and then applied for K-3 and K-4 visas through the Missouri Service Center.  This process USED to be faster than the K-1 route with typically a 15 to 21 day turnaround.  Now TSC is granting K-1s MUCH faster than MSC is granting K-3s.

Someone below mentions getting a K-3 through the American consul in Warsaw.  I don't think that can be done.  There is an interview with the consul after the K-3 is approved by INS, as there is with a K-1, which may be causing some confusion.  Also there is a special set of circumstances for an American citizen living overseas that involves the consul but that's not your situation.  These were at least the rules that were in place May-June of this year.

Everything keeps changing.  What looked like a good way to go in May, when TSC was dead last in processing time and MSC had 2 - 3 week turnarounds, sucks now with the situation reversed.  I have yet to see a K-3 approval with a NOA(1) date greater than April.

Congressmen are no help.  No one wants to be the one that helps get the next terrorist into the country.  God help us when INS is folded into Homeland Security. (Am I the only one that thinks that has an Orwellian ring to it?  Or maybe Teutonic?  We must guard our lebensraum from attractive Orthodox Catholics and their 2 year-old daughters!)

You might want to consider flying your wife to Mexico on a tourist visa and . . . .

... in response to Greetings from Splendora!, posted by Griffin on Aug 28, 2002

Hi Griffin,

It's starting to seem that a K-3 route is less reliable than a K-1 route in terms of how soon they will let my fiancee come over. I'd rather resign myself to waiting a more reliable and documented length of time that the K-1 involves, than take the less known K-3 process that in some respects seems to take longer.

This is not something I want to take a chance on.

Thanks for your post,

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to Greetings from Splendora!, posted by Griffin on Aug 28, 2002

"You might want to consider flying your wife to Mexico on a tourist visa and . . . ."   Believe me, I've really thought long and hard about this sneaky option.

Greeting from Corpus Christi.

My wife and I were married in April, (Moscow ZAGS) honeymooned until late April, and I filed the I-130 with the TSC upon arrival back in the States.  Recieved the 1st NOA from TSC within a week, then sent in the I-129F to MSC.  The 1st NOA from MSC is dated 5-21-02.  Absolutely nothing since then.  The automated answering system at the MSC continues to say that it is taking between 60-90 days to process this kind of case.

I'm beginning to believe there isn't a truthful bone in any of the soup the INS feeds us since I'm now sitting at 99 days since the date on the 1st NOA from MSC.

The Mexican option is looking better all the time.....

... in response to Re: Greetings from Corpus Christi, posted by BFH on Aug 28, 2002

Hi BFH,

gosh... after reading your situation and hearing what others here have said, I'm thinking of going ahead with filing a K-1 instead, but actually getting married in a church in Ukraine, and just not telling either governments :P. I hope it won't cause some other problem by doing it that way.

Thanks for your example... I honestly hope to avoid waiting as long as you have (and continue to wait).

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to Re: Re: Greetings from Corpus Christi, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

You can have a "Mock" wedding in a church in the Ukraine if that's what you want to do, but to have it recognized by the Orthodox Church you will have to convert to that religion.  In any case, that wedding will not be legally recognized in any sense, in other words, you will not be legally married, there, or here.

So,,, you can do it, just find an Orthodox priest who will accept a "gift" and he might be persuaded to perform a ceremony that will satisfy her friends and family, and then you can still file for the K-1 and marry for real when she gets to the states.

I hope this has been helpful.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Greetings from Corpus Christ..., posted by BFH on Aug 29, 2002

I suggest those who are ignorant of the Orthodox Church go to the OCA website at http://www.oca.org
Check the Q&A for many answers.

The Orthodox Church allows for a marriage between an Orthodox and a non-Orthodox Christian as long as the non-Orthodox was Baptised by water in the name of the Holy Trinity. As with most clergy, an Orthodox Priest charges a small fee for performing marriage rites. For a marriage to be legally recognized in Ukraine, it must be registered with the state. The same as obtaining a marriage license here is the US.

-blm

... in response to "recognized" marriage..., posted by BarryM on Aug 30, 2002

Barry,

I've not been a reader of this board for a long time, however I've spent considerable time in Russia, going back to the late '70's and early '80's.  I hope you were not suggesting I'm ignorant.  Please check that abrasive attitude at the door.

The rule of the Orthodox Church in Russia, admittedly, I don't know squat about the Ukraine, is not to perform marriages until the union is blessed by the State.  For a priest to perform a marriage that he knows ahead of time will not be a legally binding marriage goes against the grain.  The Church will not condone it, hence a priest will have to be convinced he is doing the right thing by performing what the Church would call a sham.  Of course, it is done with some frequency, and the "fee", as you put it, is not small.  The "gift", I mentioned, to the Church would have to be a somewhat larger than the usual fee charged by the priest for a legal, regular, binding, marriage. Imagine how that priest feels after doing such a marriage, knowing that those two people are leaving the Church and are really NOT married.  To them, it's the same as giving people a license to commit sin.

I met with Orthodox clergy before my wedding, and the Church is pretty selective about what they consider a "real" baptism.  Since I was Roman Catholic, mine was recognized, I wouldn't want to be a "Holy Roller" and try to make that case to the Orthodox clergy.

You really should think before you use terms like "ignorant", there are a few of us out there who have "been there, done that".

... in response to Re: "recognized" marriage..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

BFH, it's nothing personal. I have seen BarryM from the Texas call many people worse names before when referring to Ukraine as "the Ukraine".

... in response to Re: "recognized" marriage..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

BFH, tell us a little more about yourself. Are you American?, I am curious why  you traveled to Russia in the Soviet era, and what are your plans now for going. Are you married, engaged or searching in Russia?

... in response to Tell us more..., posted by Apk1 on Aug 30, 2002

One thing I can help you all with; if you've "been there and done that", and maybe developed a taste for Russian food. I have several sources for domestic caviar, both black and red, I'd be happy to share with you.  How's that for a peace offering?

BFH

... in response to Tell us more..., posted by Apk1 on Aug 30, 2002

To answer your question.  Yes, I'm an American. A native born Texan, in fact.

Why did I go to Soviet Russia?
During the late 70's and early 80's we shared a period of detante with Russia, at least until "Peanut Jimmy" screwed it up.  Many American companies did business with Russia on a "by contract" basis during those years.  I was fortunate to be involved with our Russian project, I had dozens of Russian Engineers and Geophysical experts in my care for about two years and made several trips to help them kick off some oil exploration ventures in eastern Siberia.

I am married to a Russian, a Moscovichka.  She is the blond version of the current Miss Universe.

I do manage to butcher the Russian language fairly well, but that's the product of a 6 month crash course from the Berlitz School of Language.  I don't do tapes....

For the past 3 or 4 years I have traveled to Moscow about 4 times a year.  I'm a part time resident there, we have a 4 room flat located next to the 1980 Olympic village area, and we own a semi-nice dacha 50 km outside of Moscow.  (semi-nice means it has running water 5-6 months of the year, but no indoor plumbing, we are working on that).

Jack:  I wish to state I do know that when talking about "the Ukraine", I should be saying "Ukrainia", but sometimes that just doesn't flow with a sentence structure.  Besides, 99.9% of the people would give me a pass on such a minor screwup.

Now for a small commentary.  Even though I have "been there and done that", for a long time.  I don't know any more about Russia and Russians than,,,say,,, a Frenchman who came to America for two weeks, spend all his time Dayton, Ohio, and then goes home claiming to be an expert on America and Americans.  Russians are just too diverse and complicated as a race and culture to try to understand all there is about them in such a short period of time.

It was not my intent to start a fight here, sorry if it came out that way.  But you all have the right to know some credientials before you accept anything I say as having any value.

Regards,
BFH  

... in response to Re: Tell us more..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

BFH,

 I hear from clients and individuals almost every week who will say "the Ukriane" and I politely tell them that they are dating themselves and that the country is called Ukraine.

 There are a few places where "the" is correct, such as the Netherlands or the Baltics, but Ukraine is not one of those.

 No problem BFH, it's just a little thing that I try to get across to everyone who I see use the term "the Ukraine". No offense was intended. I hope you will continue to share your wealth of information as I love learning new things about Russia and the FSU.

... in response to Re: Tell us more..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

n/t

... in response to Re: "recognized" marriage..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

Good heavens! You think that being there and doing makes you not ignorant?

Shucks... not to members of this board!

You will regularly find members of this board who have never been on an international trip farther than Canada dispensing all sorts of advice.

And, although BarryM has never been to Russia, and has no immediate plans to do so, he DOES study Pimsleur tapes, and he has converted to Russian Orthodox -- so that makes him an expert... don't you think?

He does.

Why, he even stands in judgement of Mark H, and tells Mark that he is "not serious". I mean, Mark H has only been there something like five times. He can't be serious! Why, he doesn't even study Russian!

You really need to get over the thought that "going there" makes you an expert. And especially the thought that giong there more than once makes you more of an expert.

Hell, if we eliminated everyone who had only been there once (or less) from offering advice... what would we be left with?

Oh yeah... I know... we'd be left with a board that offered advice based on experience instead of presumptive opinions.

We wouldn't want that now... would we?

(Oh... and by all means.. don't point out that Russian Orthodox and Ukrainian Orthodox are two different entities that recognize different ruling bodies...)

... in response to Re: Re: "recognized" marriage...., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 30, 2002

Maybe......

If he is a paid up, no dues pending, whatever, member of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church, then I guess he's an expert.

According to my local clergy, there is no difference between Russian, Ukrainian, and Greek, Orthodoxy.  I guess it's all depending on which side of the fight you are on.
Personally, I don't give a hoot.  It's really not important to me.

Cheers,
BFH

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "recognized" marri..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

The Orthodox Church is not a Masonic lodge or some other fraternal organization. We don't have "dues" and there is no such concept as "paid up". If you were to ask an Orthodox clergyman how much would it take to be "paid up" the response would be that your debt is beyond your capacity to pay and the only redemption is through Christ.

There are such concepts as "tithes" and "stewardship" in the Orthodox Church but these go beyond the simple act of giving money.

Your comments on the Orthodox Church are blatantly insulting especially about the references to bribes to Orthodox clergy or "gifts" as you call them to perform a corrupted Rite of the Sacrament of Marriage. You are basically advocating the deficating and defilement of the Church.

To quote you: "Imagine how that priest feels after doing such a marriage, knowing that those two people are leaving the Church and are really NOT married. To them, it's the same as giving people a license to commit sin."

That's a really scummy thing to say. The Orthodox, unlike the Roman Catholics, never had in it's history the selling of indulgences. I could say some really horrible things about some recent incidents in the Roman Catholic Church, but I have too much respect for the decent humble Roman Catholics who participate in this forum.

You BFH, however, are just a lowlife... plain and simple.

-blm

... in response to Don't use insulting language when referr..., posted by BarryM on Aug 30, 2002

"You BFH, however, are just a lowlife... plain and simple."

-blm

Barry, you claim to be a Texan,  so am I.  Can we get together somewhere?

BFH

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "recognized" marri..., posted by BFH on Aug 30, 2002

Well, I'm no expert, either.

But when I toured the Russian Orthodox monastary in Kiev, they were VERY specific that there was a difference...

... in response to Re: Re: "recognized" marriage...., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 30, 2002

I will refrain from further comment.

... in response to Re: Re: "recognized" marriage...., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 30, 2002

Well Markintex, at least some of us will say BarryM is right in his assumptions about one person!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: "recognized" marri..., posted by Jack on Aug 30, 2002


I've said all I wish to say about the Milena debate, and I don't know enough to answer the DNEP No Show debate...

All that aside... It is amazing that someone who has never gone over would say "some of us are serious... you're not"

Of course, what can  say... I love life's little ironies...

... in response to Which is not my point, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 30, 2002

I don't have any idea as to what you are referring to. My point was that I believe BarryM is correct in his assumption about someone not being serious.

... in response to Re: Which is not my point, posted by Jack on Aug 30, 2002

OK, I'll be more blunt...

Anyone who has spent two years on the board, and has never gone over, and has no plans to go over...  is not serious.

As such, I think he forfeits his right to judge someone else's seriousness or intent.

If he wants to post on his opinions on Russia, or the Orthodox religion, or what agency is a scammer -- fine.

But to question someone ELSE'S intent??? Come on... In what world does that make sense???

In "Old Sayings" that falls under the "Pot calling the Kettle Black" category...

In scriptural terms, that sounds a lot like "trying to remove a speck of dust from your brother's eye, while you have a plank in your own..."

And if he were saying it about anyone OTHER than Mark H, you would no doubt agree...

... in response to Re: Re: Which is not my point, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 30, 2002

My point is that I agree with BarryM with regards to his statements about an individual not being serious, plain and simple.

... in response to Re: Re: Which is not my point, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 30, 2002

I had the full intent of traveling to the FSU last April-May. Events that occurred in July of 2001 created economic uncertainties for me that forced me to replan my entire year. September 11 and the Enron-Arthur Anderson fiasco further increased my economic stresses. One of my clients who gave me a lot of work was in the World Trade Center. If I was frivilous, I could have already made 2 trips over but that would have been hypocritical of me since I could not meet the financial reporting requirements for a K-1.

Anyone who is serious about finding an FSU wife has the responsibility of being able to finance and support a K-1 or I-130 immigrant visa before they make the trip. That's the difference between those who are justing looking to get laid while on vacation. For Mark H, it started to materialize that he was just doing this as a hobby... just something to do in his off time. He even stated that he wasn't that serious. That's fine for him. He certainly does have good travel experience and perhaps knows a lot of the good spots to visit in Ukraine and Russia. He may find some girl that he goes nuts for during his hobby trips and she may wind up being Mrs. Mark H. It happens that way sometimes. Mark H just needs to get his head straight and stop his spew.

Being serious sometimes means NOT looking for or corresponding with RW/UW when you're not ready. Since my plans changed, I haven't been corresponding with any RW/UW. Believe me, I've had more than a couple of dozen personal referals from RW/UW friends who live here now. All of these women recommended to me are very nice, beautiful, honest, sincere, and are looking for a good husband. I've had to politely decline engaging in romantic correspondence with them because I could not honestly have any serious romantic intentions with them at this time. You have to be ready to go all the way and I'm not right now.

That doesn't mean I'm not researching and preparing for the day when I can go. I haven't studied Pimsleur Russian lessons in quite a while now, I've moved beyond them. I now have a private Russian teacher and I'm studying Russian for college credit. I plan to take the departmental exams next Spring. If I keep having a lousy time financially for the rest of the year, next year I may be able to make the trip over paid in full by the U.S. taxpayers. Sometimes earning less means getting a few freebies...

-blm

... in response to Re: Greetings from Corpus Christi, posted by BFH on Aug 28, 2002

I know you were half-joking about the Mexico option...but have you seriously looked into the feasibility of a Russian getting a tourist visa to Mexico?  I was looking for a spot to take my Russian girl and I thought Mexico would be great, but she said it was too difficult and not worth the effort (so we went to Costa Rica instead).

... in response to Mexico tourist visa?, posted by johnnydudeman on Aug 28, 2002

I know of one case where an AM got a tourist visa for his RW to vacation with him in Cancun.  He lives in the San Francisco Bay area and as I disremember his story,,,he was able to get the visa for her by showing a paid for round trip ticket, proof of enough wealth to pay for everything, and basically signing his name on the dotted line assuming full responsibility for everything up to and including the Mexican National Debt.  I'm not so sure it's worth it when RW's can go to Costa Rica or Dominican Republic, (don't forget Cuba), without a visa.

... in response to Greetings from Splendora!, posted by Griffin on Aug 28, 2002

you said that well

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

I can't speak to this other than what I have heard from some guys who have done this and one who lives here locally who did it.  I have understood that getting married there makes it longer to get her here..  More of a hassle..  What some do is get married in the church there but do NOT report it to the state.  So in essence you are married to her and this satisfies her family but the state does not recognize it, then you bring her here on a regular K-1 and marry her here..  
Again, I don't know the details, I just know this is what some guys do to avoid a supposed hassle..

Oscar

... in response to Re: a couple of things, posted by Oscar on Aug 28, 2002

Hi Oscar,

Interesting idea, and it is the first I've heard of it, but I like it.

I really do want to marry her in Ukraine, because that way her entire family will be present, and I can just have those closest on my side take a trip to Ukraine.
Luda will be much happier if both of her parents were able to be present at our wedding.

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to Re: a couple of things, posted by Oscar on Aug 28, 2002

Actually, if done right, you can get the lady here in about 30 - 60 days if you get married in Ukraine.

You are able to skip the whole INS process. You go straight to the Consolate in Warsaw.

My understanding is that in Russia it is a different story. But in Ukraine, the K-3 is faster than the K-1.

I actually wrote to a guy in Chicago who did it. He told me they were done in 60 days, and that was because their initial request was filed wrong and had to be resubmitted.

Otherwise, he would have been through it in 30 days, he said...

... in response to Re: Re: a couple of things, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 28, 2002

Well, all I know is the guy I know personally was strongly counseled by many NOT to marry her in Ukraine!  He really checked into it and even the girl and her family said the same, that they could get married in the church but that it would be very bad to report it to the state as it would greatly delay things...

I have no idea who is right...

... in response to Re: a couple of things, posted by Oscar on Aug 28, 2002

that is the way I heard it done

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

I actually looked into that, because in Ukraine you can get a K-3 Visa faster than a K-1.

I know some of the Agencies offer that as a "package". But to do it that way is expensive, so I didn't pursue it.

But if agencies can do it for you, there must be a way of doing it without their fees...

The only problem is that if you are going to do it, and want it recognized by the Othordox church, it does get far more complicated...

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

did you think about an unofficial wedding

... in response to a couple of things, posted by Deckard on Aug 28, 2002

A lot easier to go somewhere else to get married to a Ukrainian. Bring them  to Texas perhaps.
Karl
(Garland, Texas)