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My wife was telling me the other day about how a friend of hers told her how in college you can basically bribe teachers to give you good grades.  She even went so far as to say that you can get a degree without taking any classes if you have enough money.  She seemed like this was common and didn't see anything strange about it.  Has anyone else heard of such things going on in Ukraine?

... in response to Corrupt educational system?, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

My friend is Asian and he told me that Chinese professors do take bribes from Chinese students.  I guess it's an extension of their culture in the US.  Chinese students can also go to bookstores where every problem in the book is solved for them.  I wondered why they got such good grades but didn't seem very smart.

Plus you have the problem of professors asking women PhD students for sex to get a better grade or help with their thesis.

... in response to Corrupt educational system?, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

Yes, it's true!

My fiancee is a Doctor and received her medical degree prior to this corruption in the system.  She tells me now that brains cannot replace money in the university system.  Now days, doctors are graduating and don't know how to find a person's blood pressure of draw blood.  She tells me that there are many people that are very intelligent in medical school, but are continually under pressure to remain at the top of their class or they will be dropped and replaced by someone standing in line with money to get into the system.

One of the best paying jobs in the Ukraine is to work in the bank after graduation from the banking institute.  The students come from families with money who can pay for their education.

A friend of ours graduated number on in the English studies program of her university and could not land a job, unless she agreed to pay the head of the University she was to teach at, some money for an opportunity to teach.  

You can understand why we do not allow Doctors from these countries to practice medicine in the U.S.A, without passing boards and obtaining additional education.  Yes, the people who went to school prior to the fall of communism and a few years after were the bright ones and are good at their profession, but things have deteriorated.

The head cardiologist at one of local hospitals where my fiancee lives, quit his job and is now selling caps and wallets at the local market, because the $35 a month at the hospital is not enough to feed his family.  The system is terrible!

... in response to Corrupt educational system?, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

I paid $500.00 US, so that my sister-in-law could be enrolled in a University. That was last year. I just heard that the same man bumped into her in the hallway just before the end of the last semester. He was asking her how she was doing. When he heard that all her classes were going very well, he said "So, that's why I haven' heard back from you. You know if you ever need help, you should come see me."

Yes, it's a corrupt system, and it's "normal"

You will find that Russians will brag about their "free" education, but they don't mention that they must bribe somebody to get enrolled. If the student had excellent grades before, it can be easier to get enrolled with little to no bribes.

The better Univeristies can be very expensive to get into. I've heard upwards of $10K US for some in Moscow. Please take that with a grain of salt, as I was only told that by the head of the computer dept at a respected musical institute in Moscow.

Chris

... in response to Corrupt educational system?, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

Yes, and its old news. The same situation exists in Russia. It's a shame. But it has become a "normal" part of the post Soviet culture in the FSU.

... in response to Corrupt educational system?, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

The professor will call each student into his office one at a time during off hours. He (or she, this example was a he) will explain to the student all the hardships he has for the season (this was during christmas). He will suggest to the student that they help him through this hardship. The help that was suggested is in the form of cash (in one case US Dollars). I know a case where a woman was getting a mark of 5 (perfect), but the professor made it clear if she could not help him he would be forced to give her a mark of 3. A mark of 3 would hurt her standing in future classes. The sum that was asked for was $75 (US Funds). She has not and was not seeing any American at this time, and this was the request the professor made to every student (amounts varied depending on the mark the student really deserved.) This woman was forced to scroung up $75 somehow or be 'cursed' with a mark of 3 for this class on an otherwise perfect record.

Not all professors do this. The students know who and who does not ask for 'help'. In this case this was the only professor to ask for money.

I spoke with another woman. She told me her professor (different man from above) asked for $40 in order to 'pass' the class. This was equivilent to a trade or technical school class, so the sum asked was lower than the first example which was for a university level class.

It happens alot, but not with every professor. I suspect with enough cash one could get a degree over there. Every woman I spoke with prefers to 'earn' thier degree the traditional way. I have yet to meet one that told me they want to 'buy' thier way.

On a side note. Medical care is free. However if you want the 'good' medicine you will have to be prepared to pay good money. Just recently one woman had to pay $100 to her doctor to get the 'good' medicine for a kidney infection. I did not learn the entire story, but I suppose the free medicine was on order and she would have to wait.

I am sure that doctor mad more than $150 that month! :-)

MNKenr

... in response to My experience has shown this is true., posted by MNKenr on Aug 18, 2002

I have something to add about the medical costs.  My wife's mother has diabetes, and for her to get on what would be comparable to social security benefits here, she has to be admitted 3 or 4 times to this hospital that charges $100 each time.  It's sad that someone doesn't put an end to this crap.

... in response to Medical, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

No one is going to put an end to this I am afraid. I suspect that only with improvement of the economics of these countries will improvement of the situation follow.

... in response to Medical, posted by Jeff on Aug 18, 2002

I am a physician and have been to the FSU. I went to a cardiology hospital and spoke with the director and chief of the facility. You could smell alcohol on his breath and he was dressed in a very sloppy manner. Most families take the bedsheets home and wash them and return them. They also bring in food for their loved ones. In the ICU, there were five beds side by side without a curtain the patients had what appeared to be street clothes on. The environment less then sterile. Over in the corner I asked what this antiquated machine was, they told me it was a respirator. The young physicians knew their medicine and were familiar with the latest technologies. They also were quite aware of their own deficiencies at the hspital. Tjis was a specialty hospital I was afraid to venture into a regular one. Most people die at home with heart attacks and are not brought to the hospital.

... in response to Re: Medical, posted by KenB on Aug 19, 2002

Yes, it's quite common for the staff at hospitals to drink the pure alcohol, since it's no cost for them to obtain as a doctor.  My fiancee told me that in medical college all, all, all students drank heavily and smoked.  People thought her quite odd that she did not drink like they did.  It's amusing to wonder how they can perform their job of surgery with such a lifestyle.

As most people know, the wages are poor for doctors in Ukraine, unless they are in the big cities and have a private practice which draws in people with money.  It's not common though and most people receive a small wage and the customers bring in food from the garden, champaign and candy as a gift for their care, although not required.