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I've done a lot of work to make this place as troll-free as possible.  Let's please not bring in flame wars from other forums to this place.  I don't really care who said what somewhere else.  Repspond on the forum where the fight exists instead of doing it here please.

Thanks,  Patrick

... in response to Extending flame wars from other forums, posted by Patrick on Aug 19, 2002

Maybe it might be a good thing to keep my hostile posts off this board, but imagine this pat.

Some dude comes up to you and says he rated your wife less, in his previous experience and she somehow settled for someone less... ie,you.

You don't knock him out but you walk away and ignore him in disgust.

May as well have given him a license to do it again.  

He comes back... does it again, and you decide to let it go, and go, and go... all because you're a healthy thinking gentleman about everything.  What's worse?  Me going after LP directly on this board because I think he really IS a chicken butt and would never use these words to my face, (or anyone else's for that matter - out of fear of getting his butt kicked), or leaving the rude and totally inappropriate remarks to roast in the archives just because Mark's a nice guy and will let it slide?

If it was Mark doing the complaining and firestorming, I'm sure you might consider removing these comments from the thread.  After all you're a real good guy.  You think a LOT before you open your mouth and you've got a lot of experience doing it.  But at what point do you decide to draw the line?

When he goes after YOUR wife?  

It makes me sick how everybody (you MEN??) sit on the sidelines while these ex-somewhat-respected-turned trolls can take cheap potshots at someones woman.

I wonder what it would be like if it was LP -vs- Oscar, or LP -vs- Jack directly using the same exact circumstances.  Maybe LP -vs- Pat (hey man, I rated your wife lower and look what she settled for?)  Now those would be a couple of serious firefights, and very interesting to watch.  Where are your morals and ethics in this?  I could give a crap less about somebody else's old lady, but if in a crowd, in person... somebody went after a bud's woman in the way like LP has done here... there would be hell to pay. And it wouldn't be pretty either -

And it wouldn't take THE man that was so offended to make the first step to teaching this jerk a lesson, I'd do it myself.  Like teaching saddamy husseiny a lesson by proxy.  I don't need no recognition to do it either. I'd just be dam sure he knew he was out of line and put him in a place where he'd be REAL sure NEVER to go AGAIN!  So, I'll keep civil in all of this knowing that if I go off on this ahem... poster the way that he deserves, that my posts will get deleted.. what the heck, all of his I think a certain's man's fiance sucks posts are still up.. and he's still playing the "rock his world" game too.  

All because you let it lay...

You let it lay, but in the end, who is hurt?

Before my previous thread was deleted, my credibility was questioned.

Now.... where is the credibility for this board?  It's in the toilet Patrick.

Where... are the real men?  Men who don't let maggot infested posts, and maggot posters go on to infect others relationships (and thoughts) just for their own benefit? (why because lp's some ragged tough boy?).

Where, are the men who stand up and be counted, and aren't afraid to let it sling when it calls for it? Being calm and logical Mr Rogers ain't a bad idea sometimes, but standing around being a scared McFly is NOT the way to be.

Wayne said it below very well... that he wouldn't WRITE anything on the board that he wouldn't SAY in person.  I also follow that belief, and if anybody thinks that a certain poster would have the balls to say something like that to MY face, has another thing coming.  What the hell is wrong with you guys anyway?

Get a bunch of women under this same situation and it would be on CNN!  But oh, here... oh dear, it's only some other dude's woman... we'll just hide from this and let them settle it.... I hope he don't know my woman too!

Whew!  I'm safe!  There is a God and I can maintain my credibility with the rest of the men who weren't targeted by him!  But oh look!  Spyke's made another idiot post and got past the troll filter!  Let's go get'em!

Yeah right, makes sense to me.

... in response to Re: Extending flame wars from other foru..., posted by BrianN on Aug 20, 2002

My post was not referring to your now-deleted thread.  That was simply nipping a new flame war in the bud.  What I'm referring to are the several posts recently that were extensions of flame wars on other forums.

... in response to Re: Re: Extending flame wars from other ..., posted by Patrick on Aug 21, 2002

I know that.  I only put it here so that it might rate a little more attention than a single thread on its own.

Read the last paragraph of the hmmm post below, and you'll get my point.

(besides, i could care less about flame wars from other boards)

thanx.

... in response to Re: Extending flame wars from other foru..., posted by BrianN on Aug 20, 2002

First off, although Patrick deleted your thread, I don't think it was what he was referring to. He was referring to the other stuff talking about comments made on other boards, etc.

As for me being Mr. Nice-Guy (smile) if my friends and family could only hear that!

Fact is, I stopped reading anything that had LP's name on it some time ago. If he is saying things about me and my soon-to-be wife, I'm not being Mr. Nice-Guy, I'm not even hearing it...

I do agree with you... I think he is a chicken, low-life who is just a small-minded board terorist, and who enjoys the "notoriety" that he has with a few of the old-time stalwarts. I am also surprised and disappointed that the "old guard" give him a free pass and laugh off anything he says saying: "Oh... that's LP... but he has made some good posts in the past!"

The whole "I met your wife before you" was either a misunderstanding or a lie. I can't tell which because the last thing I ever read from him, he was back-peddleing and rephrasing so fast I couldn't even tell what he was implying anymore... The guy has more turns than a snake...

It is worth noting that the things he says are identical to everything Claire says:

"You guys are losers" (except he adds: "Meaning, not as good as me.")

"She is only after you for the green card."

"Your marriage is going to fail."

If someone else showed up saying what LP does, they would quickly be branded a troll, and then banned from the board.

I see no difference between LP and Claire, except for the fact that LP went over, and Claire did not. (However, if Jack is right, Claire DOES have some knowledge of this since apparently her Dad went over...)

The fact that LP brought over a lady on a fiance Visa and then didn't marry her hardly makes him an expert in my mind...

But, Brian, if everyone just ignored him except his adoring fans, then he would eventually shrink into the small side-show that he deserves to be...

... in response to Mr. Nice-Guy, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 20, 2002

.....Does my soul good to see my handle invoke such abuse by so tiny a minority. Quite a waste of emotional engery. Hmmm, wonder what that says about them? I'm seldom here because, as Dan states, the board has some seriously screwed up people at present and I don't have the need to make love to my PC these days. Its still a hoot to read when I get to it though.

My Man Stan: I give up on ya. A few months does not a succees make. How many times do you need to hear that? Any moron can roll the dice and marry a girl in one trip. Jeesh, I've had longer shack ups than you've had marriages, talk to us in 5 years. Sorry, I forgot, you just "knew" she was "the one". No offense, but didn't ya think that about your first wife also? And after you knew her for some time?? Btw, my situation is great, thanks. What part of my privacy policy didn't you understand?

Hey Pansy ManinTX: I've never resorted to the level you have and I've been quite restrained regarding you. I could've proven my claim (not what you think) in a heartbeat, but that would have been wrong since my intent was never what you or Brian assumed. Btw, "It never happened because she says so"...lol, yer killin me! Hey, hows the petition coming, heard anything yet? How many Marks with Vikas from Kherson can there be around DFW? One other thing: Its LearJet, one word, and I don't operate them any longer. Was only part time while I flew the heavy iron, hows life in sales coming along these days? No house? What a shame! Mine's paid for, ask APK what its likely worth. (Oops, I forgot, you ain't readin this. ;-)

Weenier:... Man!! You be one seriously messed up in the head dude! Reading your stuff is tantamount to being strangled. Nuff said...

Brian: Lol, I'm callin ya out Earp. Email me (L39driver@hotmail.com) and I'll tell ya sumthin that yer pal the Pansy Man will just love! Then we'll see how much he huffs and puffs. And hey, cut down on the caffine will ya?

Yep, its true. I brought a nice gal here and then deported her azz back to the FSU before 90 days because the local pickins turned out to be superior. (Beats the import any day, I might add.) My "thanks" to the trusted individual who leaked that. Not a problem though, she makes a great buck and even speaks three lanquages, including English. Been vacationing a lot with her, great fun. Btw Pansey ManinTX, did I mention us Gods travel for free? Lol...Some got it, some don't. (And never will.)

Hey Patrick, why don't you give these guys their wish? After all, ain't much value in this post eh? ;-)

Now have at it boyz, I'm expecting better than what I've been reading. The rest of you, good luck. I've no quarrel with any of you. As for my pals above, I take no pleasure in the demise of other men.....usually.

... in response to lol, I'm so misunderstood......, posted by LP on Aug 22, 2002

I hate your freakin guts you jerk...  cause all you do is make me laugh.

I sit here and shake my head back and forth wondering WTF is your sorry lame butt doing posting here.  After all, I'm the lone caffeine infested blowhard troll here in my own right.

Tell you what, I don't care who you know, or whether you're president clintons' butt buddy and you got his babe or what, but you owe the MarkINTX an apology.  A public one too.  Nobody needs to know anything of your exploits with fsu women, or that you even been there.

Being a Man has nothing to do with "telling folks"... anything.  It's simply doing the right thing.  Even if you do know what you think you do... being a "blowhard" about it by trying to trip up a sincere dude is only going to get you in trouble with your gang there mister qb.

As time goes on, and your self-fulfilling prophecy goes on... to fill some well meaning dude with certain doubt helps whom?  Who does it help?

Who has benefited by your posts?  Anyone?  You?

Answer these questions directly and I'll leave your sorry ass alone.

WHO has benefited from your posts?  And who will?

Step up to the plate.

... in response to you rat bastard - the board dominating b..., posted by BrianN on Aug 22, 2002

And I, for one, have benefitted greatly from LP's posts - as would anyone that wishes to take the time to read and understand them. I am, of course, not referring to his responses to attacks.

Like it or not, LP has a keen and insightful mind. He is certainly the most analytic - and probably one of the most intelligent posters ever appearing on this board.

The fact that he has clashed with certain personality types should not come as a surprise. It comes with the territory.

- Dan

... in response to Get it Right - That Was "loudmouthe..., posted by Dan on Aug 22, 2002

I've heard Greg say the same thing you have. And my question to him, and to you, was the same:

1. "Which post helped you?"

2. "And How?"

If you mean that he made some posts that made you chuckle, then, OK... say so. That's not really the same thing as helpful, though. Is it?

The Fact is that LP has become the equivalent of a board "pratfall".

But no one has told me about that one insightful post that LP made that really made a difference.

And that's amazing to me... because like I said before, even though I generally don't get where WSBill is coming from... if someone ever asked me: "Name one post WSBill has ever made that was insightful or helpful" I could... and that's without fervently searching the archives. That also goes for you... for KenC... for Jack... and, yes, even for Oscar. (Almost everybody)

But not for LP. Everyone SAYS he "used" to make good posts (even you must agree that in the past several months his posts have been lame attacks, and nothing more... or did you find the post where he lied and claimed to have slept with my fiance helpful to you???) But no one can seem to remember what those good posts were... The archives go back to October of 2001. Do you think you could find a useful post from LP in there? I doubt it...

Greg has never answered my question. He simply keeps lamely saying: "Well.. there was some good ones..."

No one can tell me "When," or "what," though.

And I find that silence deafening...

... in response to Two questions Dan...?, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

You have been on the board for a bit over a year. LP (and a few others) have been here for approximately 3 years.

LP has offered some of the most analytical pieces ever presented on this board. He has described his thought/selection processes in great and gory detail. I do not always agree with LP - but I most certainly appreciate the logic and effort he has put into the the endeavor.

LP has been particularly pointed in his cautions to others. While some have lately berated him over his comments towards StanB - the facts are that no-one on this board (including Stan, I should point out) would consider it responsible advice to follow Stan's model for finding a bride. Wouldn't you agree? The fact that LP is a bit brusque and apparently insensitive in his comments and it led to a major 'flap' between them should not dismiss the fact that Stan's method is logically-unsound and is highly-risky and it follows that it is among the less intelligent approaches. Admittedly, the heart is not always logical nor risk-averse nor intelligent - and that is the point that LP tried to make. For the newbie reading the board - DON'T DO IT STAN'S WAY - and LP said it loud and clear.

With respect Mark - I am certainly not going to go digging back through the archives to find one of LP's posts that you might, or might not, find of value. It just isn't worth my time and I don't have the interest.

If you do not, or cannot, find any of LP's comments of value - so be it. Candidly, that is your loss.

Having said that, I do certainly recognize that you have become a target of LP's - and I attribute it to your own making. I do not believe that LP made the specific accusation you interpreted - but then again, I was not the target, so it is easier for me to step aside and not feel the brunt of LP's venom.

I also believe I have some insights into LP and his character than most on this board. I admire the guy. If that meets with the displeasure of people on this board - I really don't care.

Again quite candidly, I don't believe that anything I write here is going to change your view of LP. For that reason (principally), I won't bother to spend any more time responding to your questions on the topic.

As I said, it just isn't worth my time - and I lack sufficient interest (inspiration ?) to make the effort.

- Dan

... in response to Not Surprising . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 22, 2002

It was a year and a half ago that I went to Russia for the first time. Remember???

And, I was reading the board months before that. So, I'm not the newbie you seem to think I am...

So I saw LP back when he was actively involved in his pursuit. I read his "Logical" posts. (That was a VERY long time ago... wasn't it?)

Big, fat, hairy deal. I wasn't impressed by this "dazzling intellect" that has you and Greg swooning. And, believe me, it was nothing that should give him a free pass on the sh!t he's been spewing for the past year and a half, and if you are too blinded by your "admiration" to understand it then, "so be it. Candidly, that is your loss..."

(BTW, Claire had some thought-provoking posts, too... Why not let her back???)

The fact is that LP's attack on Stan is just mean.

Stan's posts were never saying: "Hey guys, do it MY way!" but rather: "I have met a wonderful woman and I am really happy!"

To berate a man for happiness is neither insightful, nor logical, it's just mean.

And the fact that LP can't admit that he has made a mistake makes him even less of a man.

As for me being a "target due to my own making..." Yeah, I guess you're right. I had the audacity to find a woman and be happy about it -- that seems to be all it takes to make you LP's target.

In his post that was the last straw for me, he berated me for behaving like a stupid school-boy, and made his "Star Trek" innuendo to claim that he had been with my woman before I was, and that she was only settling for me because she couldn't have him. (And yes, that was exactly what he was implying Dan... Even Greg admits that...)

Before that I hadn't said a thing to him or about him. (I thought he was gone, like he claimed he was going to do -- like he continually threatens to do...)

His attack was unprovoked -- unless you count the fact that I was happy as being provocative.

So don't hand me any crap about how he only attacks back... only defends himself... and that I am a target because of something I said or did.

With "all due respect" that's a load of garbage from one of his staunchest apologists, and nothing more.

BTW... what did Stan ever say to him to warrant the attacks on him?

At the end of the day, this is the summation of LP:

A man who had tremendous opportunity to go to the FSU, since he flies virtually for free.

He went several times, and after all of his wonderful logic and dazzling intellect... brought back a woman whom he didn't even marry. (I'm sure he'll say that was his choice... hmmm... wonder what SHE would say, eh? Hell she could have been from Bosnia, and wanted to return home after a few weeks with that pathetic whiner...)

He then settles for some poor AW who is impressed by all of his mid-life crisis shenanigans, and who hasn't figured out yet that she doesn't have to settle for a bitter 50 something year old man to get the nicer things in life (but she will... she will...)

So, having FAILED he now wants to sit on the sidelines and take potshots at those who are succeeding where he failed, because it makes him feel better about his inability to do it.

And yes, you must call it a failure. A man who had the opportunity that he had to go over, and was unable to find a woman to marry him and live with him -- and then quit -- is a failure.

Plain and simple. You can't spin it any other way.

He tried to do what Stan did. Stan succeeded and LP failed.

No wonder he hates Stan so badly.

Every blissful day that goes by in Maui is a reminder that Stan succeeded where LP failed.

So... after all of this brilliant strategy and intellect LP FAILED!!!

He took his best shot and FAILED.

So, why should ANYONE on this board even care what he says?

He's just a loser who had to settle for an AW because he was unable to make it work with a lady from the FSU.

End of story.

... in response to Actually, it's been over 2 years now, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

You must be kidding, "Let Claire back"?

Noooooo way! After busting her as posting really nasty, demeaning remarks as Leo, MarkH, Greg, Jack Bragg, Karl (see a pattern here), Belzak, Kevin, Jim, Roberto, James, Donald, Vinnie, Victoria, Monique, Sharon, to name a few, we would be crazy to suggest that mooooooo cow be able to post here. He11, she tried posting here two weeks ago as KingC but was nabbed 30 seconds after she posted!

No way, anyone that sick, with that much hatred for Russian women and the men who pursue those women, this is the wrong board for such a scum bag.

... in response to NOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo, posted by Jack on Aug 22, 2002


Ummm... I was just being facetious, actually...

I'm glad that Patrick's policy of "No Trolls" seems to be working...

... in response to Re: NOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooo, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

I know, just trying to get you two off the subject you were on.

... in response to No more mooo-mooo, posted by Jack on Aug 22, 2002

Thanks... But I think we've talked each other out on it

... in response to Actually, it's been over 2 years now, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

It is clear that you feel deeply-affected by what LP wrote on this board. That - in itself - is quite telling.

It is equally clear that I was correct when I wrote in my previous message that it is a waste of my time to respond to you on the topic.

In return for my answering your questions, you resort to demeaning comments such as my "swooning" over LP. You also resort to mis-quoting me - I never said he had a "dazzling intellect" - that was YOUR words, not mine - though they are probably applicable.

Look ace - I am no-one's fool. I don't take anyone's comments here at face value and I put no more stock in the words of LP than I do in anyone else - UNTIL he has proven to me (and LP *has*) that he has more to offer than some others. The fact that you cannot see it - as I said - is your loss.

I honestly don't care if you see it or not. It just doesn't matter to me.

When you resort, however, to using my responses as a foil for your missives - it does, indeed, offend me. Particularly when you make the overt effort to be offensive.

I suggest you do a little self-examination and ask yourself why this whole issue is so important to you that you cannot let it go.

While you are at it - you may want to take a look at your definition of "success" and "failure." I don't buy YOUR definition.

Nor do I agree with your "summation" of LP. If you only knew.

Well - that's quite enough.

I neither plan to be the board apologist for LP - nor do I care to invest any more time and energy into the debate with you Mark.

While I find some value in some of your posts - frankly, this debate just is not worth my energy to keep it alive.

But I will look forward to your response - and I'll read it with amusement.

- Dan

... in response to OK Mark - You Win (Happy Now?!?)  . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 22, 2002

"If I only knew..."

Oh yes... I am sure.. If I only knew THE TRUTH about LP, I am sure that I would happily renounce all of my posts, and beg him for autographed pictures so I could put them on my wall, and stare at them with wonder...

Yes, yes... That's right... LP... International Man of Mystery. Better than all of us. A superior intellect to mine, and almost everyone else this board (now that DavidSD is gone, anyway...)

So good that he was too good for any woman from the FSU.

So profound that I should spend my days pouring over his words of insult and pettiness to gain understanding and nirvana.

Yes, Dan... if I ONLY knew...

But, I don't... and I guess I never will.

My mind is just too small to understand "The Greatness that is LP..."

Now, to answer your question:

Why does LP bother me so much?

He doesn't.

However, when Greg, who seems like an intelligent man, and you -- who most of the time seems reasonable -- can't see him for what he obviously is... it is exasperating.

I don't give two figs for anything he says. Do you see me responding to one word "Mr. Magificent" writes? No. Because I don't care what he says. I know what he is.

I am just dismayed by the fact that reasonable men defend him. Not all, of course. Most have stayed mum.

But the reason I make a point of all of this is that there are a lot of lurkers out there who read this. And they would LIKE to post (some of them) but bullying tactics from jerks like LP keep them from doing it.

How do I know this? Because they write to me. I get emails all of the time from guys who want advice, but don't want to post questions on here because they don't want to wade through the attacks.

No one wants to be attacked just for looking for love.

And it is a loss to the whole board when guys like LP keep these well meaning men from posting.

Because, despite any disagreements we might have, there is one thing that we can agree on: LP isn't married to anyone from the FSU, isn't looking, and isn't going to be married to anyone from the FSU.

So why should he have a forum to spout his venom here?

Really, honestly... considering that he abandoned his pursuit: What the HELL is he even doing here?

The only reason he gets a forum is that guys like you and Greg keep the door open for him, and keep stroking his ego. Don't kid yourself, he eagerly reads every word written about him.

Why do you think he continues to post, even though he has told us many times: "That's it, I'm done with you all! No more posts from me!"

I've said it before -- he'll never leave as long as you guys stroke his ego.

He gains no value from the board, clearly, since he isn't involved with women from Eastern Europe.

Despite your thinkings to the contrary, he hasn't posted anything which actually contributes anything... at least not in a very long time...

But he stays here.

What does that tell you about him?

-Mark

PS: For your information, when I put words in quotes, I am not always quoting you! Sheesh! Get over yourself already. Sometimes I put words in "quotes" merely to signify sarcasm.

If I mean to quote you, I will put it like this:

You said: "I'll read it with amusement"

... in response to Deliriously happy , thanks . . ., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

Always satisfying to learn that I've helped someone become "deliriously happy."

As for our respective positions on the issue of LP - you have your opinion and I have mine. I assure you that; (a) I know him better than you do, and (b) nothing you say will change my opinion of him - just as I am sure you will not change based on my comments. So be it.

Classic case of an impasse - and we should agree to disagree.

Now as for your statement that I should "Get over" myself. That was yet another unnecessary comment seemingly borne of your admitted exasperation in this matter. I was simply responding to your use of quotations - and was ignorant of your unconventional application. I interpreted your use of those graphics in the fashion nearly any normal half-intelligent person somewhat familiar with the English language might interpret it. The fact that you *somehow* interpreted that to suggest that I was in any way acting out of (what was it Mark - piety?!? What exactly does "Get over yourself already" signify?!?) anything other than a direct and unimpassioned interpretation of WHAT YOU WROTE, is wrong. It might even suggest that you are guilty of the very act you seem to (sort of) accuse me of - that is, being awfully full of yourself (assuming I've interpreted that one correctly - did I Mark???).

Give it a rest.

- Dan

... in response to Glad Of It Mark . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 22, 2002


I'm done discussing LP with you, Dan.

Full of myself? Hardly. I got over myself some time ago when I became a father and suddenly realized that not only did I not have all of the answers... I very often don't even have the questions...

I'll even go one step further, and prove that I am man enough to admit when I am wrong.

I thought you were a reasonable guy.

I was wrong...

... in response to Re: Glad Of It Mark . . ., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

I am, indeed, a reasonable guy Mark.

Look back at the litany of this thread to see where it became a runaway train. I was responding to someone else - and it was YOU that decided you hadn't had enough of an opportunity to castigate LP - and decided to use my comments as your foil.

You then decide to take a very personal swipe with each passing response - no matter that I suggested several times we just accept one another's different points of view.

Yes Mark - *someone* is clearly being unreasonable here. And it ain't me ace.

- Dan

... in response to Yeah - That's Proof Alright . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 22, 2002

asd

... in response to I'm done             n/t, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 23, 2002

n/t

... in response to Yeah - That's Proof Alright . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 22, 2002

......just leave it to me.

lol, "if you only knew"...truer words, eh?

I sure wish he'd stop aging me though. ;-)

... in response to you rat bastard - the board dominating b..., posted by BrianN on Aug 22, 2002

I think you are spitting into the wind Brian, as much as I applaud your spirit..  I think the guy should be banned from the board for his innuendos about another mans girl.  That simply should NOT be allowed.

All I can say is one thing-  That the guy is amazingly unhappy.  Now he will vehemently deny this of course, but it is very obvious to me that he is one very deeply unhappy person..

Later

... in response to lol, I'm so misunderstood......, posted by LP on Aug 22, 2002

Let me paraphrase and translate for those uneducated in LP speak:

"I got what I got, my way is better, mine's bigger, and it's more than you have and probably will ever have... so.... ROFLMAO... piss off"

Pretty close?

-blm

... in response to Your message is clear to me...., posted by BarryM on Aug 22, 2002

...good *is* the best revenge Barry, you outta try it. ;-)

... in response to Living....., posted by LP on Aug 23, 2002

"revenge" is not necessary. Living good is relative and according to one's perspective.

-blm

... in response to Mr. Nice-Guy, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 20, 2002

Mark,

I saw things a bit differently here relative the posts by LP that are being referred to.

LP's so called supporters did not support LP in the thread we are talking about. I for one came forth and said that LP had crossed the line in that I felt his posts insinuated issues such as possible sexual contact even though he did not say this directly. I agreed that this was out of line.  

As far as I was concerned, this dialogue should have been between you and him in private if they were to be discussed at all. I do not recall anyone supporting LP in that thread.

Yes there are people here who have acknowledged that LP had some excellent posts that had strong merit. These comments were prior to that thread as I remember things. No one as I recall supported LP's comments in the tread we are talking about based upon past posts of merit. Go back and look at the archives if you want.

I do not think that I was the only one that could be labeled as a supporter of/tolerator of LP's posts that felt he crossed the line in that thread.

... in response to Re: Mr. Nice-Guy, posted by thesearch on Aug 20, 2002

First off, although you did in fact state that he crossed the line, not another of the "old timers" did. (And, as I recall, it was a reluctant "slap on the wrist".)

Yet if a new guy were to say something that is even a little off-base, those same "old-timers" will come out of the woodwork to flame him.

And then when you make pleas: "Oh where is LP, I miss him so!" .. and others echo -- and that is all that is heard from the "old-guard" -- then what he says is endorsed. It is that simple.

You say that his discussion with me should have been in private? I say it shouldn't have happened at all. For one thing, he was mistaken... and even if he were not -- why would any decent man say what he said?

And, I repeat... NOTHING he has said in the past year is anything that we haven't heard from trolls a hundred times -- and Patrick banned them. (And, to my mind, his "drought" goes back much longer than that...)

Brian makes a valid point.

You don't see it only because you're the president of the LP fan-club...

Which is fine... just go back to printing up your "I wanna be LP" bumper stickers and buttons, or whatever it is you guys do in the "LP Treehouse..."

... in response to Silence implies Consent, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 20, 2002

Mark: First off, although you did in fact state that he crossed the line, not another of the "old timers" did. (And, as I recall, it was a reluctant "slap on the wrist".)

Greg: I think that the only thing that would have satisfied you is if I had taken a full head on attack. I think that you will note that this has never been my modus operandi. Had LP persisted, you would have seen my posts adjust to the need. He dropped it at that point and has not returned to repeat.

Mark: Yet if a new guy were to say something that is even a little off-base, those same "old-timers" will come out of the woodwork to flame him.

Greg: I do not agree with you on that. I do not see this anymore from these so-called "old-timers" than I do from you or anyone else. Also I think that it is exaggerating it some to say "even a little off-base" Of the people that have been the most vocal about appreciating certain aspects of LP's posts I quickly think of KenC and Dan. There have been others. I do not see these people being on the attack with something that is a just a little off base. Maybe I do not understand what you are referring to.    Mark, there is a reason for everything. Why do YOU think that LP has gotten away with being so blunt with a sizable number of people. Just the lack of retaliation "silence" from people on this board suggests this. I would be interested in your take on this.

Mark: And then when you make pleas: "Oh where is LP, I miss him so!" .. and others echo -- and that is all that is heard from the "old-guard" -- then what he says is endorsed. It is that simple.

Greg: I do not think that it is that simple. There are times for a little sobering LPism as I would call it. Rarely do I agree with anyone totally here and with LP and me there is not an exception. I did not approve of LP's writing style. I tolerated it because intermingled in his "roasts" was a well worded dose of some realities whether you liked them or not that applied to this whole process of going to the FSU.  

Mark: You say that his discussion with me should have been in private? I say it shouldn't have happened at all. For one thing, he was mistaken... and even if he were not -- why would any decent man say what he said?

Greg: No I said if such discussion ---Happened At All---- that it should have been only in private - I am not endorsing it's existence and I already agreed with you that he crossed a line that I can not condone. BTW, I think you handled it very well. However, if you did not discuss this with him, how do you know he did not come across your lady? How do you know that he is mistaken? I suspect you really do not know the truth about this -- that you are wanting to just ignore it. So what if she met him? I mean a lot of these women have met several men in their quest to find the right man for them.

Mark: And, I repeat... NOTHING he has said in the past year is anything that we haven't heard from trolls a hundred times -- and Patrick banned them. (And, to my mind, his "drought" goes back much longer than that...)

Greg: You are dead wrong here as far as I see it. The Trolls come here with some truth many times --- the problem is they use a truth, a circumstance, an example and make it into a sweeping statement. However, there is a truth that is distorted. Why do you think that Patrick has not banned him? What makes him different from the trolls? Mark, there obviously has to be something that makes him different.

Mark: Brian makes a valid point.

You don't see it only because you're the president of the LP fan-club...

Which is fine... just go back to printing up your "I wanna be LP" bumper stickers and buttons, or whatever it is you guys do in the "LP Treehouse..."

Greg: Don't you think that you are being a little condescending here LOL - Do you really feel the need for that? And, do you approve of Brian's way of posting? I am not talking about who is right or wrong here, I am not talking about the content but the crudeness of the post that was banned.

Now, here you go again assuming with me - telling me that I do not see any sign of validity in Brian's post. I do not in the one that was deleted but this last one, I do. However, I have never found that I have much in common with people who feel that violence is the answer to solve their problems. We are simply a cut from a different cloth. So, you approve of Brian's approach hmmmmmmm. If that is the case you can not be opposed to LP's way of writing. This is nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. If you look at LP's posts you will see that his writing style became more aggressive - this is when he crossed the line as I  stated.  Why did that happen? I would not have a clue.

You do not have to worry about LP returning - my call is that is just not going to happen - maybe a cameo appearance but nothing more than that if that at all.

However, I will call for some down to earth LPism if it appears that someone needs a dose of reality because they are presenting too overtly the symptoms of real time distortion that is associated with intoxication of  being to strongly footed in LaLa land. It is the only decent thing to do. Agreeing with people for sake of wanting to be liked is not what is always in everyone's best interest.

BTW I am not the president of the LP fan club. I only believe in being the president of one's own fan club of one with the only purpose being that you use such to allow yourself to honestly say each year that you are a better person than you were the year before. If you can say this then the club has served you well. BTW, I have failed at least 60% of the time to accomplish such goal. That is ok because I succeeded the other 40%. Heck 40% is better than 30%.

If you would accuse me of being the President of the LP fan club certainly it holds that you are the acting  President of the LP hate club.

... in response to Re: Silence only implies, suggests the p..., posted by thesearch on Aug 20, 2002

just wondering LOL

... in response to Just curious does anyone else read this ..., posted by greg2 on Aug 21, 2002

Dominance of the board by a few loudmouthed, ignorant blowhards (not you Greg) in combination with a general apathy toward setting the record straight and spending more time with my wife, has resulted in my only occasionally reading some of the posts on the board these days.

- Dan

... in response to Less and Less . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 21, 2002

Hey, your life with you lady is the most important thing at this stage of the game.

I still feel you are one of the most valuable resources this forum has and I do not want to lose you if I run into a problem. Just selfish.

... in response to Re: Less and Less . . ., posted by thesearch on Aug 21, 2002

What problem can you run into dating an AW.

Wait... let me rephrase that...

What problem can you run into that Dan's resources will be able to help with?

(We are ALL aware of the problems you might run into ;-)

... in response to Just curious does anyone else read this ..., posted by greg2 on Aug 21, 2002

asdf

... in response to Re: Silence only implies, suggests the p..., posted by thesearch on Aug 20, 2002

OK... a few things.

FIRST, apparently, you are wrong when you say: "Had LP persisted, you would have seen my posts adjust to the need. He dropped it at that point and has not returned to repeat."

The fact is that LP DID return to make the comment again, which is what drew Brian's attack. I didn't read it, but apparently Brian did. (And so did MarkH who also mentioned the comment...)

Secondly, when I said that Brian makes a point, I was not referring to his blatant attack, but rather his explanation in this thread, where he explained why he felt irked enough by LP to attack...

Brian simply took LPs tactics and expanded upon them when he claimed to have "knowledge" that LP had dated Claire. Was he telling the truth? Only as much truth as LP was saying when he said that he met my fiance... which was Brian's point. If you don't produce proof, and no one challenges you... you can get away with saying anything. Brian was simply illustrating his point by using extremism.

How do I know LP never met Victoria? I have said this before. I know because she tells me she didn't. Would I care if she had been on a date with someone else? No. But she says that she didn't, and I believe her. Furthermore, although he back-peddled later, he clearly hinted that he had been intimate with her, and she didn't live up to his standards, so he dropped her. This was a blatant lie. When called upon it, he started disseminating, and claiming that he never actually SAID that... yeah right. He's a blowhard and a jerk, who just wanted to act superior. Plain and simple...

Do I "approve?" of Brian's initial attack? No. But Brian didn't ask me for my "approval." He has his style, and I have mine. But if you are going to accept LP's, I can't see why anyone would take offense at Brian's...

You ask me why I think LP gets away with his trash? I think there are a few reasons. One, I think some people are afraid to "take him on." Not many people like to engage in flame wars. (There are a few who seem to thrive on it... but most find it unpleasant.)

I also think that some people are just happy when they are not being the one who is getting attacked. It is always funny when it is the other guy...

Finally, I think that there is a certain "Good Ol' Boy" mentality that persists. Those of the "old guard" are hesitant to take on other members of "the old guard."

You are also incorrect when you say that the old guard are not quick to flame newcomers. Although Oscar's style is combative, there was a time when any post by him could immediately draw an attack from Dan or Ken -- even when his posts were fairly innocent. Happily, they all seem to have made a truce now... but for awhile there it was completely predictable: Oscar would post, and Dan would attack.

And that isn't all. There have been plenty of examples of this.

As for me being the "President of the Anti-LP" club... I would think I am more of the head of the "Everyone ignore the idiot and he will stop coming here" club. But if you are saying that I have decided he's a jerk and virtually nothing he can do now can change my mind... you are right. Mainly because I don't read anything of his anymore, so even if he made a decent post, I wouldn't know.

I think you are wrong that he won't "be back." His ego needs stroked, and he will "be back." In fact, he has never left. If you don't think he reads every post about him, you have completely misjudged him...

... in response to Silence ... played at 33 1/3 speed..., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 20, 2002

Well, I think I would probably make a better nomination for the president of the anti-lp club.  After all, I was one of those dudes way back when that asked... "where the heck is lp".

I'll tell ya what happened, he got laid - then he got an ego.  Our styles (yours and mine) differ only because of anger-trigger points that cause us to go off.  My sensitivity is a little less than yours, and I've had my share of "claire crocodiles" in my life too.

That said, I don't care if my wife or fiance was the biggest ugliest pig in the usa, any dude that comes up and starts mouthing off about her, be it here, in person or via telex who cares, is gonna get his butt slammed.  Does that make me a jerk?  No. Does it mean that other well meaning people with more tolerance in life are wrong to think I'm too hostile?  In my opinion, no again.

But that's just my opinion, based on my own biased point of view at the moment.

Let's look at the flip side of this whole thing and imagine that the puke decides to apologize for his behavior.  IE, be a REAL man, and do the right thing - (it takes a bigger man to admit his mistakes and correct them than to make them).  Given the right level of "perceived" sincerity it just may provide for some type of positive outcome where everybody can kiss or make up, even though you... You Mark, have actually taken it personally and have sworn him off by your above statement, the rest of us just might be clamoring again to read another one of his posts after he's "cleaned his slate".

You see, while you disagree with my means and methods (fight fire with fire... no, nuke the hell out of'em), you have taken the overall insult of the whole situation and  stashed it in the corner, never to speak to this wizzle wizard again.  The truth is, is that this formerly somewhat respected tough guy, has resorted to underhanded means to stroke his ego, and thrown you the hook line and sinker.

Probably, on your gentlemanly terms, you won by being the better gentleman.  But I'll guarantee you that he thinks his worthless butt won because you've retreated to oblivion in your corner, never to be heard from again.  How many Marks does it take before somebody puts this pos out to pasture where he belongs?  And you too Greg...  You really should pay attention to the subject line of Mark's posts, as that is where the real key to this whole thing is, not in the details where he goes head to head with you and tries to tweak your mind.

Now, who can I offend next?  I'm looking for a dude, divorced, just got back from the FSU, had a great time and is really proud of his new "wife to be", and his new life, expresses himself in great detail about his emotional experience for the world to see...  Yeah, another victim, even posted the pics of his babe on a website somewhere too!  I can get my rocks off with this weak minded sort of guy that's proud of himself, after all I'm a pilot, found me a woman lately, didn't have to go the same route these jerk-offs did... so that makes me king and I get to play with'em.  Hey, ain't none of my buds gonna gimme crap cause I'm the MAN!

This kind of dude, is the one that gets taken out to the shack and his ass beat.  And don't think you wouldn't be laughing about it later cause a few dudes decided to do it for you on their principles alone.

This guy should be BANNED from posting on this board.

WHY?  Hmmm.  Business reason this time.  Let's see when the next "great" trip report that comes in here.  I think we've seen the last of them for a long time if any of these dam fool newbies read the archives in any detail.

Good day.

... in response to hmmmm., posted by BrianN on Aug 21, 2002

YOU are the President of the I hate LP club. Now you state that MarkinTX has dropped things with LP. No way - look how he and I have bantered. He has not dropped things - he has just changed in who he addresses his upset to. Just because I think that LP had some good posts -  I am the target. He should deal with LP and get it out of his system or not even respond to me or anyone else.

Sad to some, clear to others - LP did bring some truth to all of this - that is why he was tolerated. Each based upon his position/truth responded differently.

I am not condoning his tactics or methods - just that in it all there was truth plain and simple - not all of it but enough.

... in response to You are correct, posted by greg2 on Aug 21, 2002

Actually, you are "the Target" for two reasons:

One, I think you are a sincere, and intelligent person, with whom I can discuss things without it degenerate into senseless name-calling... and two, you keep throwing out posts that say things like: "Where is LP when we need him?"

My answer is, and always will be, "No one needs him. Anyone can be a crochety idiot... that doesn't take any talent at all... We DON'T need him."

As for me continuing the posts about LP, I actually never post a thread about him, but I will respond to them. When he posted something about me and my fiance (again) Brian responded, and it brought the discussion back up. So I responded, and our discussion started anew.

But it is your last comment that bothers me the most, Greg.

"I am not condoning his tactics or methods - just that in it all there was truth plain and simple ..."

Well, shucks, then I guess you think that Osama bin Laden is a pretty good guy, too then. Because there is SOME truth to his claims, too.

I just happen to think that no amount of truth justifies terrorist means.

Which is what I have against LP.

Remember the sh!t he threw at Stan? Was he right about Stan and his wife?

No. Was what he said justified? No. Was he "helping" Stan with a "dose of reality?" No. Was Stan in "lala land?" No. (Maui is paradise, not lala land :-)

Did you take LP to task for his attacks on Stan?

Stan has been a gentleman, and has been around long enough to show everyone class, and that LP is just a mean old man -- not some sort of prophet.

He was able to tolerate it for a very good reason: He knew what he has in his wife.

I can ignore LP for the same reason.

But it's not fair to the other guys to have to hear his crap, and then have some guy like you sitting on the sidelines and urging the bully on...

... in response to Re: You are correct, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 21, 2002

Mark: you keep throwing out posts that say things like: "Where is LP when we need him?"

Greg: Personally I can only remember twice - me doing that. One had good reason the other I was more an issue of frustration as I recall.  

Mark: But it is your last comment that bothers me the most, Greg.

"I am not condoning his tactics or methods - just that in it all there was truth plain and simple ..."

Well, shucks, then I guess you think that Osama Bin Laden is a pretty good guy, too then. Because there is SOME truth to his claims, too. I just happen to think that no amount of truth justifies terrorist means.

Greg: I simply can not see how you can suggest that I support Osama bin Laden because I see some truth in LP's posts.

However, I think that you have revealed the problem in your comment - that what really concerns you is that  amidst LP's "roasts" I find that there has been some truth. If you can not see that then there is no discussion in the world that is going to resolve any of this. My take is that you are not going to see what I see regardless other than the harshness of some of his posts and the area I agreed with you on regarding your fiancee. I just do not think that any amount of words that I might use will allow you to see what I see that is beyond that. You can't see what I see and herein lies our difference.

Mark: Remember the sh!t he threw at Stan? Was he right about Stan and his wife?

No. Was what he said justified? No. Was he "helping" Stan with a "dose of reality?" No. Was Stan in "lala land?" No. (Maui is paradise, not lala land :-)

Did you take LP to task for his attacks on Stan?

Greg: Prior to your post I gave a comment to Stan under the 100th girl thread. Go take a look if you like.

You see, you and I are never never going to agree on many things - just the way it is. It is not that I am right and you are wrong it is about what is right for you and what is right for me. We all have different lessons to learn and we seem to naturally gravitate to certain mental attitudes so that we can find our way to events that can provide the experiences we need in order to grow. I am not saying that either of us is more evolved than the other as it is not such a linear thing. However, I would suspect that we will manifest very significant differences (you compared to me) in our lives.

You see I still feel that LP's post to Stan was warranted and, it has nothing to do with how successful Stan's marriage proves to be or that it was right and meant to be. It was about the rushed nature of Stan's courtship that warranted a strong word of caution.

If it was going to be a mistake for Stan and there were red flags that he had observed a strong warning might have gotten him to slow down before jumping to the K-1. The warning is presented and Stan I am sure thought about it but felt that in his situation the warning was not needed.

You see only Stan has the information to base a decision on. Others only have the information of how quickly it all was happening. Therefore, that is all that an outside source can comment on. It is up to Stan to come to his own conclusion.

So, we know that you do not feel any warning is indicated for someone who goes over meets a lady in short time, does not know her, and proceeds with a K-1. Can it work - sure it can. Does that mean one does not need to consider the risk of a rushed marriage? That is what it is all about.  

Mark: But it's not fair to the other guys to have to hear his crap, and then have some guy like you sitting on the sidelines and urging the bully on...

Greg: My answer to that is if that is how they feel they should not have been sitting on the sideline and doing nothing at all about it when it was happening. But, they did exactly that in force. Very few came forward. Now, with Lp's latest with you, I would suspect that would change relative to that last barrage if it had continued to go on. You state they did not. I think that many were just looking at this wondering what the heck was going on.

... in response to see things differently that is all --- n..., posted by thesearch on Aug 21, 2002

I still think you mis-read much of my last post... and I'm sure that you feel the same way...

I'm going to let it drop now...

At least until the next time LP says something crude, and Brian (or someone) takes offense and mentions it.

Then I will again pipe up and say: "Yep, he's an idiot, and only slightly better than a troll..."

And you will say: "Yes, but remember that post in 1998? That was a good one! So, he is all right..."

And then we'll go round again...

Until then... I've said my last about the weenie...

... in response to I don't know about you, but I'm bored..., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 21, 2002

asd

... in response to You are correct, posted by greg2 on Aug 21, 2002

LP DID have some good posts.  
Until he decided to take the low road.

At that point the team quarterback becomes the town thug.  Time to lock him up and throw away the key, not stand back and watch him continue to be a thug... which was the only reason for the "where's the MEN" in this place bit that I posted.

Unfortunately, silence does condone his activity because the written words remain long after the fact.  If the moderator would've banned this fool in the beginning for going after a persons fiance, (subtle or not), then we wouldn't have anything to talk about.

After all, he hasn't contributed anything worth reading in months.

... in response to Silence implies Consent, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 20, 2002

"Why would any decent man say what he said?"  

... in response to Mr. Nice-Guy, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 20, 2002

.

... in response to Too true Mark.. He doesn't merit respons..., posted by Oscar on Aug 20, 2002

somehow i just don't see you laying down for this.  I could be wrong, but it ain't happened yet, so nobody knows.

... in response to Re: Too true Mark.. He doesn't merit res..., posted by BrianN on Aug 21, 2002

Oh Brian, I had my short lovely stint with LP.. In my opinion he is sociopathic.. It's like spitting into the wind so what's the point?  He posts so little now that it's not worth the bother.  I mean if a guy posts one lousy post, that's one thing, I think he can be called on it, but when every word out of a persons mouth is lousy, what's the point, it's just who they are.. Do you think you would have been able to change Ted Bundy by talking to him??  Don't think so.  That is what I mean by why LP really doesn't merit responses..

... in response to Re: Re: Too true Mark.. He doesn't merit..., posted by Oscar on Aug 21, 2002

"Do you think you would have been able to change Ted Bundy by talking to him?"

HEY, I think Ted was a wonderful, kind, caring, sweet, man's man and knew how to treat his wife, why I learn so muc,....ooopps, I mean Al Bundy!

... in response to a man's man!, posted by Jack on Aug 21, 2002

.

... in response to Re: Extending flame wars from other foru..., posted by BrianN on Aug 20, 2002

I thought the thread deleted was from this forum and not from anywhere else!

... in response to Re: Re: Extending flame wars from other ..., posted by Jack on Aug 20, 2002

Mark H is bragging about the fact that the heated exchange between you two is being reposted on RWG or some other board. I think there is something really wrong with him. He has lost it.

-blm