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Don't know quite why we got on the topic of correspondence the other night, but she told me that any letter she received from a guy living in an apartment she just trash canned...never even considered responding no matter what the guy looked like.

She said that she wanted to live in a house and that was that.  What about those guys who were just living in an apartment until they got married?  Well, she said, that might be OK, but she didn't want to take the chance that the guy would stay living in an apartment.

Any way, something to keep in mind when corresponding.  If you don't already have a house, but plan on getting one once you are married, you might want to mention this is your first letter.

Stevo

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

I think there are lots of methods of finding an AM to marry, the method that I used worked for me.

I didn't have any profile or picture in the internet, nor was I a member of any agency, I was totally by myself, I knew English and found an internet cafe and knew where and how to search.

So I didn't put myself in the market and said "Ok, guys, here I am, come and see me." I was not passive, I was active. I myself went to the guys’ profiles and it was me who was choosing at the beginning, and it was impossible for me to get letters from guys who didn’t fit my description, as I initially contacted only those who fit. So I didn't have problems with that, I was choosing within guys who already fit my desire, after that it was the matter of clicking, interests, honesty, sincerity, seriousness, readiness to come to me, to marry...

But again I don't say that other methods are bad, they are just not for me.

The idea is to find a method that will work for you, for each of us.

Anastassia

Notarized and Certified Russian/English Translations
Moscow Diploma with Honors; Cambridge
http://www.translation.wasem.net

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

So when I go to my timeshare (apartment living) in New York over looking central park I will just leave here at home at the house out in the country taking care of the garden and feeling the chickens.  Hey if that’s what she wants, great you must respect a woman that knows what she wants even if she is being a little silly.  

No really what it is was another cultural difference thing.  They have no idea what some apartments are like in this country all they know are those drab Russian looking complexes that only have hot water certain hours of the day.  

In the end she got what she was looking for and this is all that really counts.

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Ryan on Aug 22, 2002

Hey we have had some real dozzies around here lately, like some you used to be involved with, where you been?

... in response to where U been?, posted by Jack on Aug 22, 2002

I saw it and was so tempted to get involved but I am taking the good advice and started some other hobbies etc.  After so many years of posting I think I have learned enough from you guys that I know what I have to do and how I have to conduct myself.  It just seems like we all go over the same stuff over and over.  All I have to do now is go and meet the women.  I have my Visa for Russia and I’m going in a couple months, I’m busy corresponding with a few RW getting stuff together and working my ass off.  I really should not be posting until I need some help with the Fiancé Visa and paperwork stuff as the rest is really up to me now.  I read and keep up with the Visa stuff, once in a while I might take a pot shot at a post for old time sake but really I think you guys have the market on giving the good advice.  Some might not think so but I really have grown in so many different ways from writing in reading this board for as long as I have.  I will defiantly post when I have a trip report.
Have fun I’m still reading and laughing…

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

MarkinTx said:

Stevo's wife didn't say that she wanted a mansion with a swimming pool... she just didn't want to live in a cramped apartment where four people have to share a bedroom (which is how a lot of the women there have had to live.)

She probably wanted hot water, too. Does this make her a gold digger?

___________________________________

And he cought this idea absolutely right, any decent and honest RW wants to improve material situation and to move not into a castle (from a tent), but into a separate flat (from a flat with parents) or into a house (from a separate flat). I mean this change is just one or max 2 steps up, something that is NORMAL, a place where a couple can start a family.

And i think that material status is very important, but agian while searching for a husband it is NOT on the first place (for me) it is on the 4th or 5th. Some women don't pay attention to that at all saying that "Love is such a pure thing that i don't care where he lives, what he does..." And some (like me) still pay attention but it is not the primary preference.

Here is my preference

1. faith/race - Christian, white
2. high education
3. cute, handsome, attraction, chemistry
4. age (27-33)
5. successful, stable

And these are a MUST for my future husband to have, all 5 MUST be present.

Anastassia

Notarized and Certified Russian/English Translations
Moscow Diploma with Honors; Cambridge
http://www.translation.wasem.net  

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

I can understand how she feels.   I kept my old house a two flat with two bedroom, about 1500 square feet in both apartments.   I lived in one apartment for years.   Now I have a new house with 2500 sq feet and this has made a world of difference in my quality of life

Robert D.

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

Yes you are exactly right.

100 percent.

Ain't no use for any fsu lady to have an interest in a man that cannot support his new family in the same decent means that he has afforded himself in the past.

Provided he's living "ok", and not in a dumpster somewhere.

But somehow, your words irk me a little... and only a little...  Maybe I'm just too easily offended these days.

We'll see.

Best wishes to you and your family Anastassia.

... in response to Sorry about that, that came off a bit ho..., posted by BrianN on Aug 22, 2002

Why do my words irk you? :-)

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

Now that you've been here and done this... and possibly known other AW/RW, what are your REAL thoughts on this thing Asya?

Your number 2 strikes me as being a bit.... ahem should I say.. pre-disposed that possibly you might not have known the difference between "high" education and knowing how to make a living here for a man?

Just because we're not all brainiacs with phd's behind our name and elongated monikers to sign off with doesn't make us losers.  

Smile.

Brian
Certified Loser/Non-Educated
Trailer Park Extraordinaire
PL Diploma with Honors; LP Certified
http://losers.com

... in response to wow., posted by BrianN on Aug 22, 2002

HI Brian,

I know the difference between "high" education and knowing how to make a living here for a man. It just when it comes to finding a man of your life, forever, then I cannot marry a man who has higher education, but doesn't have enough of money for a renting an apt or a house, nor can I marry a man who has lots of money but doesn't have high education. I need both, I need all of those 5.

And if you have enough money for this endeavor and don't have high education it does NOT mean that you are a looser, maybe you will enter any university in future and get this education, God knows, and you should and will find a lady who doesn't care about this that much, you will find a lady who fits your desires and she will find you because you will fit her conceptions.

My search was very strict, and was narrowed to many things, and I think I have a right to be so strict to my future husband because I am asking NOTHING MORE than what I myself have.. I think this is fair. Don’t you think?

Anastassia

P.S. Nobody had any problems with my signature, you are the first one. :)

... in response to Re: wow., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

I think you are coming across as a bit of a snob..  It really is in poor taste to put your "credentials" out there with every post.  I have two Master's degress and was Phi Kappa Phi through all of it, but here, I simply say I am a therapist..  It's just not that big of a deal to people and it is condescending to keep throwing it at people.  I am sure there are men here who have much higher educations than yourself but they never feel it necessary to advertise it.

This from your post-

"nor can I marry a man who has lots of money but doesn't have high education. I need both."

This kind of talk does not inspire men here.  To many, you come off sounding like a gold digger, only interested in status and money, something most of us men here do their very best to avoid.  
You could easily find a man who has tons of education and makes great money.. problem is, he could also be a child molester or an extortionist!  Perhaps you might look more at the MAN and less at what he HAS (i.e. university paper, money, big house, etc..).

It's fine to have "standards" but when status and money become more important than kindness, support, honesty and love, it will not go over really big here..

For what it's worth..

Oscar

... in response to Annastassia-, posted by Oscar on Aug 23, 2002

Hi Oscar and MarkinTx,

About my signature – I don’t think I am putting it out too often in comparison to others, and I sincerely don’t think we should discuss this here, everybody is happy with my credentials and that I show them from time to time, (I won’t this time) Actually the reason I do this is to LET ALL OF THE MEN who are in this endeavor KNOW that I can help them with any translations, and K1 cultural advising, that i came through this myself, and so on, this is the field of my profession, this is how I can prove the quality and responsibility of my work. When I write my signature I am not bragging (though I am very proud) but I am just saying that this is a TRULY professional who can help you. i see some other nice translators, but they for some reason don't have such signatures, maybe because they don't have such credentials, so if i have why not putting this out once in a while, this is who i am, you cannot take my education away from me. Again i am not bragging or boasting.
I am very glad for your degrees and professionalism, and I think that it would be natural for you to go to some therapeutic boards and advertise a little bit there. On this board we are all talking about the theme that my profession has LOTS to do with. Also there are many men with lots of degrees who cannot figure how to detect a scam, how and where to search for Russian learning materials, K1 details and so on. This doesn’t mean they are not smart, this is just a new field for them, it takes lots of time and maybe some mistakes to figure this out… i came through some of these mistakes and now i want to share with you for you not to make them, how to avoid them.
This is where I step in and actually save men money and what is more important time.

Now about gold-digging. In this chain of emails we are talking about what place material interest takes in a woman’s head while searching for an AM, that some women are ok with living in an apt and some want a house, and some a mantion with 5 cars and swimming pool…In this chain in particular we are not talking about love, devotion, faith...
You are saying “It's fine to have "standards" but when status and money become more important than kindness, support, honesty and love, it will not go over really big here..
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you, i DID NOT say that they are more important than kindness, support and honesty...

We are not talking about this here, it is like for granted in this chain, we are discussing WHAT ELSE apart from all the things that you mentioned IS NECESSARY for women.

If I don’t write this in my email it doesn’t mean these things don’t exist for me, not at all, as MarkinTx noticed, the first thing on my list is Faith.

I wanted to say this: When you or any man makes a search, and let’s imagine that IT IS A REALLY DETAILED SEARCH that allows you to both see a lady’s picture and choose the whole list of things such as: age, height, weight, hair color, eye color, children, education, location, profession, hobby, faith, languages, smoking and drinking, salary… Would you look through all of these and check and specify what you would like, or you would say ‘Doesn’t matter’ on some of them???

There are very few agencies with such kind of search, I wish there were much more, both for men and women, on most of them they allow you to choose just age, height, weight, children…

I would pick exactly what I need (what i actually did), I would check everything according to my preferences.

Now this is very important moment right here. At this point this is just INITIAL SEARCH. First contact search. THIS IS WHEN PERSONAL THINGS START, this is when one should start looking and wondering OK, LET’S SEE WHAT IS INSIDE OF THAT PERSON, who and what she really is, what is her character and how it reveals itself, here when we start talking about love, friendship, sincerity, honesty, kindness, support, we are talking/corresponding with a REAL PERSON trying to figure out all these human traits… and finally fall in love….And develop these feelings, and prove to each other and ourselves that this is a person we need.

So this whole process involves 2 parts I should say: 1 – initially searching for data/information of a person, 2 – building a relationship, big, true, eternal, sincere, strong, trusting, deep, forgiving relationship.

Oscar, you just assumed something based on a phrase that you took out of the context, looking at that very single sentence. Those people who know me closer or personally will probably understand me better or can explain or prove to you better about me.

I would never marry a man without true sincere love to him, my decision to marry him was made based on all the things that I talked about combined together, but the greatest of them all of course is MY FEELINGS, how we managed to build this trust, how we were patient with all of these K1 visa problems, how our feelings were developing. I was paying attention to everything – emails, letters, little gifts, how often he wrote and what he wrote, how much time and effort he put in to me, HOW HIS ACTIONS COINSIDE WITH HIS WORDS…

....And I tried my best from my side...

So Oscar, please, don’t rush to judge me, ask me any questions, I would do my best to answer them, only then you can come to some little conclusions. By the way you can read all of my posts here on this list, then on RWG and RWL, just typing in “Wasem” (my surname) in search. This will let you understand better who I am and how I got here.

You are saying: So I am not saying that this Anastassia is a complete jerk or anything. I am saying I can see where some guys would be ruffled by her style, where she comes off as a bit of a snob..

Oscar, please tell me who will be ruffled by my style??? Those who I chose to correspond with won’t be at all as they fit my description and desire initially, I can say that those who don’t fit will be ruffled, but it is impossible, as I won’t even contact them and they won’t know about my existence!!! You are talking about some weird case where a woman who likes lets say very tall men would for some reason contact a short man and will start telling him her concerns about his height, humiliating him!!!

I don’t fully understand you, please clarify.

I am not a snob, I am very confident of myself, I know my ‘price’, I know my level. I am also a very touchy and tender person, friendly and ready to discuss things instead of coming to some hasty conclusions.

MarInTx, thanks for your support and understanding.

Anastassia

P.S. sorry for mistakes if you find any. :)

... in response to To Oscar and MarkInTx, posted by Anastassia on Aug 23, 2002

Anastassia-

From the reactions in the posts of a few of the men I read on the board with this thread, it seems you were coming across as a bit of a snob.. I say you were "coming across" that way, I am not saying you absolutely are one..

As for your "signature", there was a comment or two about it from other posters and I happen to agree that this is not the place to advertise as it is supposedly against the board rules.

About "goldiggers", I again did not say you WERE one, I said some of the comments I saw and from what some of the other posters reacted to, could make you "seem" like one.  From my post-
"Hi Mark..
I did not say she WAS a goldigger, I said some of her comments (like the one I quoted) could make her seem like one. It obviously ruffled more than a few feathers on the board."

Concerning guys being "ruffled by your style", that is what happened here with a few posters. I read their posts and they were "ruffled" by some of your comments, Brian and a couple of others.
I am not judging you Anastassia, I point out that you have offended a few posters with this thread and they have made that known.  I am not saying it makes you a goldigger or a snob, perhaps its just the phraseology you use and partly translation.  I have been to the FSU four times and I know that your countrie does not put the same value on tact that is stressed in the USA.  It is not right or wrong, it is "different" as I am sure you are aware.  I would simply say that one must be careful in the way they phrase things.  I know when I first saw it, I didn't like the quote of yours that a man must have both a lot of money and a higher education.  It may not be exactly how you feel, but it is what we read and see.  The only way we know you is by what you write.  If we sat down with you and actually had a conversation, perhaps it would be different.

Oscar

... in response to To Oscar and MarkInTx, posted by Anastassia on Aug 23, 2002

I admire all of you women who stick with us.

It gets to be quite a "Boys Club" here sometimes...

If you can wade through all of our posts about hotties, babes, and even discussions of the latest Victoria Secret catalog... it seems like the least we can do is cut you a little slack :-)

Guys... believe me... you don't want to run off all of the women folk.

Sheesh it will degenrate into Lord of the Flies here quickly if you do...

... in response to Annastassia-, posted by Oscar on Aug 23, 2002

If you look at her list, wealth isn't listed until number 5. And actually, it is not called "Wealth" on her list...

The FIRST thing on her list was religion. I'm surprised that none of you picked up on that...

I think you guys are being a little hard on her.

All she is saying is that a woman wants a man who will provide her a better life than she can have without him.

That doesn't sound like a gold-digger to me.

In fact, I think she is right.

Just as all men are "hoping" to find a drop-dead gorgeous babe... all women are hoping to find a stable man who can make all of her financial troubles go away.

That doesn't mean that a guy won't fall in love with a woman who is not as drop dead gorgeous as he first hoped, nor that a woman won't fall in love with a man who lives in a trailer and grows tomatoes...

But when you start your search, you are hoping for the best.

As for her "signature" ... she isn't bragging... she's listing her services in hopes someone might want to hire her sometime.

Yeah, it's a slight "end around" Patrick's "no advertising" mandate... but it's gentle enough... don't you think?

It's not like she's always on here pimping her services...

... in response to In all fairness, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 23, 2002

Hi Mark..

I did not say she WAS a goldigger, I said some of her comments (like the one I quoted) could make her seem like one.  It obviously ruffled more than a few feathers on the board.

As for her signature, I do, along with a few others it seems, feel it is inappropriate and unecessary.  It does again come across heavy handed.. my opinion.

And for the record, I did not go to the FSU looking for a drop dead gorgeous babe.  If I would have wanted that, it is certainly not difficult to find there.  I met a lot of women there and found one that is kind, patient, loving, honest and a fantastic Mother.  She is attractive (some here saw her photos) but I do not think she is physically a 10 necessarily.. But with her inner qualities, to me, she is an 11...

So I am not saying that this Anastassia is a complete jerk or anything.  I am saying I can see where some guys would be ruffled by her style, where she comes off as a bit of a snob..

My 2 cents

... in response to Re: wow., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

putting your academic credentials after your name in a bulletin board post just seems kind of pompous...its just isn't done

... in response to it does seem...kind of pompous, posted by johnnydudeman on Aug 23, 2002

To put too much emphasis on degrees and education as a judge of intelligence and strength of character is a bit overstated.  I work every day with a bunch of officers in the Navy that can't do anything without holding their hand and walking them through even small decisions requiring simple analysis.  I am an enlisted man in the Navy with 21 years active service and have received a Master's Degree, but most of my education has come from other than my evening university work.  Yes, I can relate to people that work hard to receive their education, but not all people even struggle to obtain this.  Many do with papa's money and have only to study and nothing else.  Some do it with real sweat, tears and even work full time in the process.

I am marrying a woman that is a Doctor, but would have married her if she were a hairdresser if we were simularly matched, spiritually, emotionally, physically and intellectually.  

I do believe that any person that comes to this board should be respected for their different views on subjects, but also see that many will defend a woman who comes here much faster than a new poster who asks a poorly worded question.  Think cooperation and respect without compromise is the best way to communicate.  I have seen people post here for the first time and produce terrible sentence structure and spelling mistakes, but their message was clear.  The only response they received was correction and rebuke for poor grammer.  Of course this is the best site available for us folks who have a common thread in our lives and we all need the help and experiences that each bring to the table, but need to always keep it friendly and approachable.  We all have a sort of kinship through our experiences and few can relate to our search, except us folks who have endured the distance, the pain of waiting and the step of faith to venture into another country to search for our soulmate.  Go Navy!

... in response to Re: it does seem...kind of pompous, posted by James B on Aug 23, 2002


You say: "I am marrying a woman that is a Doctor, but would have married her if she were a hairdresser..."

But that's true of men in general.

I read a survey where they asked men and women how important a woman's job was to them. Something like 5% of the men said it was important and 80% of the women did.

Who would you rather marry... a Jenifer Anniston look-a-like who is a hairdresser or a Meryl Streep look-a-like who's a doctor? (If you could somehow normalize for age...)

I think you get my point.

We can say whatever we want, but we are attracted to beauty.

Women can say whatever they want, but they are attracted to success (or security, ofr money, or however you want to put it.)

There are exceptions... but over-all it is true.

And, in my opinion, a woman who wants a man with money is certainly no less shallow than a man who wants a woman with big boobs. (Or even big lips...)

Everyone has their criteria. A woman who is honest enough to admit that she looks for security and a good income should not be flayed alive here... Especially not after all of the "Hey look at this babe!" posts that go on around here...

... in response to But Men and WOmen are different, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

If you are a guy and you are ugly all you have to do is make a lot of money and all of a sudden you do not look so bad to a woman LOL

... in response to The good thing about that is..............., posted by greg2 on Aug 25, 2002

Everything has its extremes, I guess...

But it kind of explains Hugh Hefner, doesn't it? (And Larry Flynt, and that old geezer Anna Nicole married... and... and....)

... in response to But Men and WOmen are different, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

I choose my woman because she told me that there is not much she does not like doing, and her looks were not a factor. I discovered when I got there she was a "babe as people Call It" I thought from her photos she was average as we would say. I had a ex-wife who was of model credentials, that was great but, To put up with her Bullship every day was to much. never wanting to do anything and when I did things for her it was never right to her liking. No matter how good it was and I had many other people tell me she was a witch. She became that after marriage. She was great before and appreciative. My point is, I rather have compatability before anything else. Beauty is only skin deep but, mean goes clear to the bone. PS what good are looks, if you can not stand to be with that person

... in response to Re: But Men and WOmen are different, posted by snowwego on Aug 24, 2002


Well, I think that you are getting off track from where Anastasia started her topic.

It was not: "Who will you fall in love with" but rather "Who are you looking for at the start?"

And I must say, anyone who tells me that looks don't matter is either lying to me... or themsleves.

You honestly went to meet your woman "because she told me that there is not much she does not like doing..."? Really? Honestly? Believe me, if you just wanted a sincere woman who likes "doing things"... you couldn't find that here in America?

I know of several really nice women who would love to have a chance. Of course, they are forty pounds overweight and never wear any makeup ... that's not a problem, is it?

Listen... we need to be honest about this. Looks matter. She has to be attractive to you, or you won't give her the time of day.

And I refuse to believe that anyone travelled 7000 miles just to find someone who is "average".

If you're going to insist that you didn't care at all about looks, then you and I will just have to agree to disagree -- but I still don't believe you.

Now... would I take an attractive girl with a great personality and a match for me in every way over a drop dead gorgeous model who was vain and brain-dead? Of course!

But when I was first looking for a woman abroad, and I broswed through catalogs, I looked at the pictures ... didn't you? I will even confess that I looked at the pictures first, and THEN read the profile.

Did you just shut the images option off on your browser, and just read the profiles because looks didn't matter?

I don't believe that. I just don't.

Looks matter.

Anyone who tells you anything different is trying to sell you something...

... in response to Looks and Skin Deep, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

I got the idea of going for a FSU women when I was skiing in switzerland, for I met the most out going and plesurable couple there he was swiss and she was russian. We ate together and skiied one day. That is when I started looking for the a compatible women and not a babe. That is the truth That is probably why I hit a nice girl on the first try and I am happy with her.

... in response to Looks and Skin Deep, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

Actually I agree with much of your post.  Looks was important for me in finding my wife in Ukraine.  I must say though, I was not looking for the most gorgeous possible, because I also had a list of other criteria that when the aggregate of these things were met, I was satisfied that she was the one for me.  Of course I had to look in the mirror and make an honest determination of what I could have vs what I wanted.  I think that Anastasia(although I don't know here and have not seen her) is probably a 10 in all respects and could reasonable ask for a 10 or 9 in her search criteria.  This discussion has been great and I think it has helped people to see how much different we all are and how we all look for something a little different.

I have a friend on the military base that has asked that my fiancee help him find a woman from her hometown.  She told me that she does not like to do this, because she does not know what he wants or needs.  She says that all the women are different, with different needs.  With this, he gave me a list of physical characteristics and nothing else.  He even said that she should have red or auburn hair. My fiancee asked me why this was the most important to him, because she could just dye her hair to his preference.  You see, you are right Mark, the physical looks of a woman are extremely important for a man and a very high priority.  I must say though that my fiancee and soon to be wife could change drastically in her looks and she would always be the most beautiful woman in the world to me, because we are so close and the early criteria don't have such an importance as they did when we were searching.

... in response to Re: Looks and Skin Deep, posted by James B on Aug 24, 2002

Hi James B, though some people won't like that i post the link to my website but you and others can see our pictures, of me, my husband, my child, husband's relatives, my mom on my website.

I am not hiding. ;-)

http://www.translation.wasem.net

... in response to Looks and skin deep, posted by Anastassia on Aug 24, 2002

I was interested in a comment you made in your post where you said:

"But we follow both ways, Lance and I were married in a Russian Orthodox Church and our Andre was christened in a Russian Orthodox Church in Seattle and he was also dedicated in our Non-denominational church here in Redmond."

Which church do you attend every Sunday? Or do you go to both churches?

How would you feel if Lance had decided that he belonged to a church, and that now you were his wife, he wanted you to belong to that church with him, and you would not go to the Russian Orthodox church any more?

And, I have one other question, if it is not too personal.

In your message, you say: "When in Moscow, Russia I didn't really go to church that often but here we go every single Sunday"

I am curious about this. You mentioned in your post that the most important thing to you about your future husband was that he was a Christian. And yet, you rarely went to church when you were in Russia, so it would seem that the church was not a large part of your life.

Now, you happily go to church every week, and consider your faith a very large part of your life.

Did you become more devout through all of this? Or did you always feel the way you do, but it was difficult to get to church in Russia? Would you say that God was always a large part of your life, even when you didn't go to church regularly, or has your faith grown since finding your husband?

I know this is very personal, so if you don't want to say here I understand. I could email you privately, if you would prefer.

I only ask because I see some similarities in my Fiance.

... in response to To Anastassia -- About Faith, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 25, 2002

We should talk about this on the phone, too much to write! And yes it is very personal, you can reach me at 425-702-1924 or please give me your phone number and i will call when i am free (translations and Andre)

... in response to Looks and skin deep, posted by Anastassia on Aug 24, 2002

Thanks for the pictures and introduction to your business. It's too bad that there aren't opportunities to insert your business link on this page, because I think that your services would be extremely valuable to many who are going through this process.  I am sure that Brama could put you on their main page if you looked into it?

You do look like a nice couple and yes, your credentials, beauty and obviously internal happiness deserve only the best available.  Nice to see your mother also found her happiness and she too is a beautiful woman who takes good care of herself.

I am happy to see you have put faith at the top of your list as I too find this to be a very important element of my search.  My fiancee and I enjoy prayer every evening and know the importance of God's blessing and guidance in our relationship.

I will be marrying my fiancee September 21st if all goes well with with her arrival on the 12th and the little bit of paperwork we need to finish after arrival.  Of course these last days of waiting feel like an eternity, but we have waited for two years and can endure.

... in response to Re: thanks and  nice family, posted by James B on Aug 24, 2002

Hi James B,

Thank you very much for all your compliments! :-) And yes, i am so much happier and complete now that my mom is here too. :-)

I will look into Brama.

Faith is very important to me and Lance, we also pray every single evening thanking God for the past wonderful day and the health and his protections and so on. It makes us so close. When in Moscow, Russia i didn't really go to church that often but here we go every single Sunday, the whole way of praying and praising God is totally different, i have to come through some changes here...
But we follow both ways, Lance and I were married in a Russian Orthodox Church and our Andre was christened in a Russian Orthodox Church in Seattle and he was also dedicated in our Non-denominational church here in Redmond.

My sincere congratulations to you and your fiancée, why did it take you so long??? Is your case complicated? Or they lost your package (God forbid)?

Great true happines to you and our future family,

Anastassia

... in response to Re: Re: thanks and  nice family, posted by Anastassia on Aug 25, 2002

Anastasia,

It took me a long time because we wrote for four months, then I took a couple of visits before asking her to marry me.  We were at 13 months and then she send me the required papers and since I am in the U.S. Navy and living in Iceland I submitted the papers and the process took 9 1/2 months to complete approval.  She was in the international driving school when the approval came and we decided it would be worth her finishing the last 3 1/2 weeks and then coming to me.  She can drive in Iceland with this license and later we will work to get her one when we move back the U.S.A.

I too have a similar relationship spiritually as you and your husband.  We pray every night and it's wonderful.  She still has her own faith, but now reads the bible and it's opened a whole new world to her.  She just loves to read and discuss what she learns with me.  I appreciate and embrace all her differences and we are able to merge all of our culture and experiences with joy.  I am sure that our spiritual lives will mirror yours very much as we experience our life together.  She has been here to Iceland on two occasions for 45 days each time and has experienced our church which has different form, but she enjoyed it.  I have also visited her church in Sumy and we enjoyed spending time in prayer for our family and our future together.  Yes, there is a great emphasis on prayers for health and happiness in the Orthodox church, but it's important to all of us and we do pray for these things every night. Jim

... in response to Re: thanks and  nice family, posted by James B on Aug 24, 2002


I don't think anyone has waited as long as you have!

I don't know how you've stood it.

We're all rooting for you two and Sep 21st!

... in response to Looks and skin deep, posted by Anastassia on Aug 24, 2002

Hm-m-m-m... I would prefer Auntie Leigh! (Just for my taste...)

... in response to I would prefer..., posted by PrincetonLion on Aug 24, 2002

That is because she is an American.
As to appearances, she is a really cute lady. But she has already married (as you can see) a Christian guy with 2 children.

Tastes differ. :-)

... in response to Looks and Skin Deep, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

Any of these women will be the first to tell you that they also need to be attracted physically to their man!  This is hardly exclusive to men.  As I said before, I met a ton of "model types" in Russia and Ukraine who were demanding, selfish, unkind and just plain witchy (not so much with me, but everyone else around them, waiters, waitresses, taxi drivers, shop clerks, etc..) I had absolutely no use for these women.  I kept looking until I found a woman who was kind, selfless and sincere, just like some of the other men here were looking for and found.  Sure, there are a few sugar daddies here that just wanted the eye candy, but I do not think it is representative of the majority on this board at all.
So I do not think it is an accurate comparison that men just want beauty and women want money.  EVERYONE wants to be attracted.  Certainly there is a difference between attracted and blowing your socks off, but ALL want to be attracted.

Oscar

... in response to C'mon Mark-, posted by Oscar on Aug 24, 2002

Well, at least you will admit that looks matter.

Now we just have to agree on how much...

All I am saying is that looks matter more to a man than they do to a woman.

And, conversely, a job matters more to a woman than it does to a man.

And that doesn't make a man shallow... nor does it make a woman shallow.

It's the way we are wired.

Some say this goes back to the day of primitve man. Man would seek an attractive mate, because he was a hunter. The woman, being a nester, was more interested in how well the man could provide for the family.

She was attracted to his ability to protect and provide... he was attracted to what caught his eye as a hunter. (There is also a thought that a man was attracted to a woman with large mamory glands -breasts- because it was thought that she could nurse healthier babies)

Now... I don't know if I buy all of that. But the fact that scientists have actually come up with theories to explain this does indicate that it is something that is real and measurable.

So, when a man goes to Russia in search of a gorgeous woman ... or when a woman is interested in a man's ability to provide ... this is simply something that is built in to us.

For whatever reason.

And when a man says that looks don't matter... or when a woman says that she is just as attracted to a stock-boy as a stock-holder... then what we have is someone who is not telling the truth to someone...

... in response to Ahhh... Common Ground, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

::the fact that scientists have actually come up with theories to explain this does indicate that it is something that is real and measurable.

Mark - "theory" according to the American Heritage Dictionary:

1. A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.
2. The branch of a science or art consisting of its explanatory statements, accepted principles, and methods of analysis, as opposed to practice: a fine musician who had never studied theory.
3. A set of theorems that constitute a systematic view of a branch of mathematics.
4. Abstract reasoning; speculation: a decision based on experience rather than theory.
5. A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment: staked out the house on the theory that criminals usually return to the scene of the crime.
6. An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

Nothing in there equates 'theory' with "real and measurable."

The 'theory' you recounted is merely speculative - though plausible. Still - miles away from "real and measurable."

Do you believe everything you read?

- Dan

... in response to Naw Mark - You're Too Gullible . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 24, 2002

I hurt your feelings during our last "debate", so now you're going to quibble with everything I say... like you did Oscar a while back, eh?

Well... feel free.

But... just to set the record straight...

I did not say that the fact sociologists had theories made those theories true. That wasn't what I said at all.

I was simply saying that if people are out there doing studies and getting grants to try to understand WHY something is happening... it means that there is enough evidence that it IS happening, that it becomes more than just "my" opinion. There must be SOME evidence of this, Dan, because people are spending money on finding the cause.

And, it logically follows, it MUST be measurable to some extent, because the scientists and sociologists had to provide some level of proof to get backing for their studies. The fact that you don't think that they had to show any proof at all simply tells me that you have never been involved in getting a grant.

Furthermore, this is not one abstract study. The fact that men and women are attracted to different things, and behave differently in a relationship, is a well established and accepted fact of human science.

Finally, it has been established in many studies that men are attracted to appearance more than a woman is, and that women are attracted more to security.

I don't have time to prove the obvious (what is next Dan... will you want proof that the sun rises in the east? Shall you look up the definition of sunrise, and want me to defend it???) So... I will simply cite one...

Dr. David Buss, in his in-depth study of sexual attraction (published in 1994) entitled: "The Evolution of Desire - Strategies of human mating"  makes this rather bold statement: " Men worldwide want physically attractive, young, and sexually loyally wives who will remain faithful to them until death.  This is universal across cultures and are missing in none” (P.  70 of his report)

Conversly, he states this about women: "Evolution has favored women who prefer men who possess attributes that confer benefits ... so over time women have evolved to focus on certain traits that are more stable.." (P. 21).

He goes on to list the traits based on an international study. Guess what was number one? Yes, Economics. (I quote from pages 24-25)

"Women tend to value economic resources about twice the rate of males... This was confirmed over 50 years of studies, different methods, different cultures..."

(Incdentally, another interesting side note:   Women prefer older men – 2 to 5 years, world wide...)

Now, if you want to say: "This isn't true. It just can't be true! LOOK, I have a dictionary here, and it has a definition of the word THEORY in it... doesn't this prove my point???"  Then, feel free. You go right ahead, if it makes you happy ...

I mean... don't get me wrong... it IS a nice service of you... giving the board a "Word of the Day"... I just don't see how that contributes significantly to the debate.

However, if all you are seeking is to be contrary... well then congrats, Dan... mission accomplished.

... in response to Oh... I get it, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

Yeah - I figured it'd get under your skin that I (of all people) would point out the logic inconsistency in your statement.

No Mark - I don't care to quibble with you at all.

And no - you didn't hurt my feeling previously at all. I sort of thought it was YOU that got your knickers in a twist - not me.

All that has nothing to do with the fact that your comment in the previous message, was, indeed, illogical. The fact that you feel so compelled to prove your point is - well, let's just call it 'interesting' for now.

Cheerio Mark,

- Dan

... in response to Maybe . . ., posted by Dan on Aug 24, 2002

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Glad you're enjoying yourself, though... You are making no sense at all -- But you seem to be having fun...

(I'm starting to wonder if you read my posts at all, or whether you're just recycling random posts you've made in the past. Honest to God I've had more intelligent conversations with my dog...)

... in response to Whatever..., posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

And again for the hundredth time everybody stayed stuck to his/her opinion.

I am wondering where are other ladies from this list, are they just passive readers and look at all this thread entertaining themselves!!!???

I actually post rather rare as i just don't have time for this but when i have and a theme touches me then i post, but such kind of reactions from men here don't give me any incentive to write on this board and share. Leave alone i have already found my love.

... And please don't tell me i post here for the sake of my link... The length of my letters speaks for itself. I bet it takes a bit more time for me to write a page than for you guys.

MarkInTx and others who understood me pretty well, thanks for your support and sharing your ideas, i agree with you.

Good luck to everybody, let you find what you really want in a woman and God bless.

Anastassia

... in response to Re: Whatever..., posted by Anastassia on Aug 25, 2002

I guess all of the other ladies have watched the treatment you got for being honest, and decided that they didn't want to run the guantlet of the bullies.

Once again, thanks for posting, and stick around! Please!

... in response to Ahhh... Common Ground, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

not being honest.  You start with catalogs (paper variety or internet) and say "Wow!" when you look at the FSU women.  THAT'S why you start searching there in the 1st place.

Stevo

... in response to Ahhh... Common Ground, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 24, 2002

No Mark.. You keep saying all men are going to the FSU looking for a "gorgeous" woman..  It's just not true.  Myself and many other men want a woman we are "attracted" to but she certainly does not have to be "gorgeous"!  If that is YOUR criteria that is ok, but please don't lump me in with you..

And as far as women looking for the ability to provide, I agree, I think that is certainly a factor and a legitimate one, but for a woman to say "he MUST make a lot of money and have a high education", I think that is just too blatant!  That is beyond reasonable to me.  

Oscar ;-)

... in response to Re: Ahhh... Common Ground, posted by Oscar on Aug 24, 2002

well put, I think if someone is going to be so blatent to tell any one and keep it to themselves. When people are so blatent it tends to put people on guard.

... in response to Re: Ahhh... Common Ground, posted by Oscar on Aug 24, 2002

Oscar, I said FOR ME he must have high education and make decent money.

i didn't say for all women you are searching the most important is big money and high education.

I wrote FOR ME, i described MY OPINION, the method that worked FOR ME, that I AM HAPPY ABOUT.

And i put decent money much lower than faith, age, appearance as you could have noticed.

those who got offended by my words, i am sorry, but at some  point it is thier fault because they tend to think that the author of any post teaches them, shows them how to do this and that and tells them "If you guys don't do as i did or don't think as i think you will be total fools"

Not at all. At least not in MY posts.

All posts should be just stories of other people, just an example, just an advice...

The main idea for the men who are in search is to read posts and filter them, decide what may be true for him, what may work for him.

I DID NOT IMPOSE any ideas on anybody, i am just sharing. If we take all things that we see and read on the internet close to heart and personally we would be all dead already. :-)

I was blessed to find a man who is everything for me:

both christian and 29 and handsome and sportive and smart and with high education and with good paid job and with a house (we rented at first and moved into a town home 2  years ago) and values me a lot and loves me a lot and possess all human noble qualities of a man i have been dreaming about all of my life.

He is number 10 or more for me.

... in response to To Oscar!, posted by Anastassia on Aug 24, 2002

Anastassia-

You did NOT say in your post that a man should make "decent" money, you said-

"nor can I marry a man who has lots of money but doesn't have high education. I need both".

LOTS of money is different than "decent" money..  That is the only thing I found uncomfortable in your post..

Again as I said before, perhaps it's just the phraseology or translation so why don't we just let it go and move on ok???

... in response to Re: To Oscar!, posted by Oscar on Aug 25, 2002

I am sorry for my phraseology that put you on a different path of thinking.

I agree, let's move on.

Wishing you all the best and coming through K1 visa without any complications and fast.

... in response to Re: wow., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

Anastassia,

Don't read too much into Brian's "signature."

He probably wasn't really meaning to insult your signature.

... in response to Re: wow., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

I would guess that you are a woman who simply has good self esteem.

I say  this because when this is the case, individuals more readily expect more in a mate relative to thier own needs and are not afraid to hold out for it.

I for one see your approach as being healthy. I, as a male, expect a certain amount of physical attractiveness for me to be  interested. Clearly this is a superficial requirement but, it is only one requirement on my list.

As for Brian, if he does not have a higher education, it is not important as there are many women who do not see this as being important. There is usually someone for everyone -- it is merely about finding your match. Education does not make a person, looks do not make a person, it is who you are inside and that ultimately is what seals the deal on how someone chooses you vice versa..

... in response to wow., posted by BrianN on Aug 22, 2002

You have to remember the only good men in the fsu/russia is the ones with a high education and a good job (not many). Most others, not all can not afford a family. My point is that they only know that a good education is a better life. The poeple from the FSU/russia, for the most part, do not understand the middle class thing.

... in response to Re: wow., posted by snowwego on Aug 22, 2002

I hadn't thought of it that way.  I can appreciate how this could be the case for many seeking such.

Anastassia ---- is this how you were looking at it?

... in response to Good Point ---Anastassia?, posted by thesearch on Aug 22, 2002

What of my posts are you referring to, please clarify, i couldn't understand what email are you answering. Could you please copy and paste my letter to which you were answering?

Anastassia

... in response to Re: Good Point ---Anastassia?, posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

I was referring to the comment by Snowego above my post  concerning why some women might ask for a higher education.

Snowego:  "You have to remember the only good men in the fsu/russia is the ones with a high education and a good job (not many). Most others, not all can not afford a family. My point is that they only know that a good education is a better life. The poeple from the FSU/russia, for the most part, do not understand the middle class thing."

... in response to Re: Re: Good Point ---Anastassia?, posted by thesearch on Aug 22, 2002

Here is my letter to one of the members of this board, i hope that this will clarify what i meant.

__________________________

I will try to explain what I mean by higher education.

It is not enough for me if a guy is very smart and informative and cultured and has his own business – money, I also want him to have higher education which means he is highly educated in so many fields, you cannot get the amount of information that you learn while in the university learning it by yourself, and most of all a person who graduated with good results knows what stands behind each exam, each mark, each course work, each lecture, he knows what discipline is, thus he will value me more, he will value my Diploma with Honors more, he will realize much better what that means, that it is not just a paper, that it is lots of time, dedication, sweat, nerves, tears, persistence, smartness, not having fun and parties and disco for 5 years. This is my life, this was my life, huge part of it, I want him to come through the same.

Also not in all cases but in most you will have a better job with higher education than without it, it’s definitely a plus.

I am not comparing high education (lots of money) to no education (no money) I am comparing high education (smartness, wisdom, university experience, literacy) and no education (plain, simple, not interesting, funny simple language, worker)

Everyone here in the USA can make decent money, it depends on his/her business skills. So I am taking this a little bit for granted. Let’s not talk about money here. Let’s talk about brains, degrees, smartness, literacy, knowledge of languages, cultures, politics, geography, literature, history. Only such person can be really interesting to me. I can make money myself and was doing much much better than average $100 a month in Moscow, Russia. And I am making relatively good money here. :-)(thanks God!)

All I want to say is that FOR ME Higher education is very important, because I myself have it and came through student life, maybe for someone else it is not and they have a right to choose according to there preferences, we all should choose based on what we ourselves have and can give to a person. I was not searching for a Nobel prize journalist with a huge house and a swimming pool, and a personal airplane, I was asking for exactly what I had, only material part is of course better. But I think all Americans are just lucky to be born here where with all your skills and high education you can make much money, I am sure if I were born here I would make even more than what my husband is making now (he is in Microsoft) I am not boasting at all. So what he is making here and what i was making there are compatible, even more...
________________________________________________

High education definitely means a better life, but not only. I don't know what you mean by middle class, I think poor in Russia is $50 a month, middle class $250 a month, high class  $800 a month, rich and very rich may earn the same amount that AM earn here (these are mostly real estate businessmen) :-)And i think that there are people belonging to all of these classes, 2 last classes are growing very fast actually. There are much fewer people of a middle or high class than of a poor level class, but we cannot say that there is no middle class in Russia at all. All is relative.

Anastassia

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Good Point ---Anastassia?, posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

I would clarify that Russian middle class as incomes from $400 to $2,000/ month.

Do no forget the "new Russians", maybe classify them the upper middle class..incomes of $2,000 - $20,000 /month.

Then the upper class, the ex KGB(russian Mafia)...and other ex soviet politburo who stole millions if not billions from the Russian economy when the empire folded.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Good Point ---Anastassia?, posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002

Thank you for your response.

The one thing that was very obvious to me when I was in Russia was that the women seemed to be more cultured, sophisticated, educated and classy compared to the average American woman.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Good Point ---Anastassia..., posted by thesearch on Aug 22, 2002

And more than the average American Man, as well...

... in response to And, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

What does this tell you about the USA?

... in response to Re: And And, posted by thesearch on Aug 23, 2002

Well.. this alone merely tells you that the average American is not as "exducated and cultered" as the average Eurpopean.

I think this may be skewed somewhat. After all, the women we are meeting mostly have internet access, and mostly have higher degrees, because if she didn't, she woudln't think she could learn English and move to America.

So, its hard to say that our anecdotal experiences mean much in the scheme of things.

I do think, however, that the state of higher education in America is apalling.

Have you read: "The Closing of the American Mind" by Allan Bloom?

He makes a strong argument that Political Correctness has robbed our education system of it's solid grounding in the classics.

That is a shame...

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Apart from the drunkeness and woman chasing, (which it must be said a lot of Russian men don't go in for). Very few of the young men earn enough money to support a wife and an apartment, often having to bring the new bride home to live with the parents if they are lucky enough to have the room.

Some of these ladies will just not have the opportunity to hope for a marriage under these circumstances, this is what gives western men the advantage. They also know very well they won't find twentysomethings out there on the internet, which gives the older men something of a chance. The alternative for a lot of these women is to become old maids.

Amongst these women it is taken for granted that western men are able to support them, house owner or not.

My wife has established quite a network of Russian women friends since her arrival in England, some of the husbands have £500.000 houses, others live with mum!

I really don't think being a home owner is top of these ladies agenda when choosing a mate. They just want a decent life and some romance, like everybody else.

... in response to And my wife said..., posted by Pordzhik on Aug 21, 2002

I would make the same points. Economic security, a good man, and escape from the prospect of growing old in an apartment with Mom and Dad drive many of these women. If the woman is childless, I would add to the list: desire for children/family.

The apartment/house distinction is not something my wife has every talked about.

... in response to What my wife said..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Wouldn't it be a little more reasonable to try to find a wife who loved you with an apartment or a house.  

Isn't that the real fear of this whole process.  Finding a women who has alterior motives.  Upgrade the country and the house.  How about finding a women who just falls in love and considers all the other stuff secondary.  

Maybe later down the road you both can work towards a house if you choose.

This kind of talk is a real turn off to me.  It is one reason many of us try to get away from American women.

A women looking for the "full package" is a little too opportunistic for my taste.

There is always a guy down the road that is younger, fitter, and has a larger house and income.  You don't want to find a women who is materialistic, because she may upgrade you.  Some of these girls get the "kid in the candy store" syndrome when they get here, just like some of us do when we get over there.

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

I am talking about a 'full package' inside a man, in a man, of a man, i don't mean possessions, that come and go, for me full packages is - white, Christian, 28 years old, high education, tall, sportive, cute, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke... and materially successful.

Isn't this good? Does it mean that I am a heartless, calculating predator? :) Not at all. God forbid.

Lots of AM want to find a simple lovely Russian lady who won't even make a sound, will never argue with him, will always be 'under' him and won't complain, won't be against anything, and if SOMETHING, then here is your ticket back, au revoir!

For me 2 people in a marriage MUST be equal, it is hard to be equal for a lady when she comes to a foreign country, even if she knows English perfectly, still there is so much ahead to understand how everything works, how to find a job, how to pay bills, how to file taxes, how to buy a house, how to refinance... so of course we cannot be equal here at once.

Anastassia

... in response to Re: Re: What my wife said..., posted by Anastassia on Aug 22, 2002


I agree that  a girl is not on an equal plain but, I would make every effort to make her feel that way.

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

Wayne1,

Yes you brought up a good point but I think with RW's the fact that they are looking for an American with a house vs an apartment is quite different then the point of view of an AW (gold-digger). RW's (JMHO) are looking for someone who is stable, financially secure.

This is important to them, part of the whole package. They don't wish to waste their time with someone who can't provide and/or support a family. Isn't this why many Western men seek women in the FSU is traditional family values?

I don't want to speak for Stevo's wife, but unless I'm grossly mistaken, this is probably close to home. Also keep in mind that Russian Apartments are probably not up to par as to what you can get in the U.S.

The cost (rent) of an apartment in Russia is $10 - $25 mos (depending on locale), and if RW's are under the impression this is what Americans pay, (even taking into consideration we obviously have higher income), they might falsely assume anyone living / renting an apartment in the U.S. could fall under the category of white - trailer tr###.

Bottom line, most RWs want a better life, so be it that it has to occur in another country, they wish to find a suitable companion w/stability. Brad Pitt look alikes doesn't mean you can support a family, unless of course you are Brad Pitt :) so you might want to take this into consideration, the RW's that I have come in contact with are not looking for the golden goose. just my nickels worth.

regs -
chuck

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

screening process?(and that's all she was talking about here)  Guys do lots of intial screening....weight, height, hair color, education level, english ability, you name it.  And women use their own initial criteria, and you would be naive to think that it is the same criteria a man uses (never has been).  Men go for looks and youth while women look for stability and maturity.  For lots of women, a house is a sign of stability and financial werewithal.  It may in fact not prove out in the end, but you've got to start screening with some type of criteria.

Does it bother me she didn't respond to someone in an apartment?  Not at all.  This gave me a better shot at what I was looking for by cutting down on the competition.

And if you think that RW aren't interested in the same things that AW are interested in, then you are in for a rude awakening.

I didn't go shopping in Russia under some misguided belief that RW were more 'traditional' than AW.  On the contrary, I went to Russia to find a young and beautiful wife knowing that I had an advantage over my Russian counterparts because of what I could offer her in terms of materialistic things.  Hey, if an RW wasn't just as materialistic as an AW and believed in love over everything, then why in the hell would they wan't to come here in the first place?  Be honest, materialism is what is driving women out of the FSU, and is what is making them available to us western men.

Stevo

... in response to I don't know, doesn't everyone have some..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Stevo wrote:
I went to Russia to find a young and beautiful wife knowing that I had an advantage over my Russian counterparts because of what I could offer her in terms of materialistic things. Hey, if an RW wasn't just as materialistic as an AW and believed in love over everything, then why in the hell would they wan't to come here in the first place? Be honest, materialism is what is driving women out of the FSU, and is what is making them available to us western men.

Hmmm,

I thought the big reason they were looking abroad was because most American men are not drunks, womenizers and know how to treat a women better.

I firmly believe that if you find a women who puts much importance on upgrading her material life, then it won't be long after she gets here that she is running off with another younger, fitter, dude.  Going for the total upgrade.

If the real reason these women are marrying us is because they are trying to better their financial situation, then the whole process smells really bad.

Now don't get insulted Stevo.  I am generally speaking, and not talking about your wife OK.

Peace
Wayne

... in response to Re: I don't know, doesn't everyone have ..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

Bothers you that a woman would take material things into account?  Want to know how important your money is to her?  Well, think about yourself and how important her beauty is to you - that's about how important your financial situation is to her.  I think that is the best way to put things into perspective.  Of course, it only works if you can be honest with yourself.

Think about our conversation.  Imagine if this was a list of RW's talking about whether AM only valued them for their attractiveness.  And then the RW equivalent of Wayne pops up and says, "Well, I don't want an AM then because beauty fades and he will surely want to trade up...."

Now first - I don't think any of us value RW for beauty alone.  But it is a factor.  And I don't think we are so shallow as to trade up.  But if they talked about AM's money as much as we talk about their beauty it would sure be a turn-off to a lot of guys.  Fortunately, they don't generally want the money as an end unto itself.  They just want to know all the elements are there for the fairy tale to come true.  And usually fairy tales aren't about destitute couples.  Now love and devotion can and will overcome all forms of despair (financial hardship included).  But when a woman is initialing weeding out 'applicants' the love bond isn't there to guide her decision.

Want an RW who will value you from the start regardless of your money?  Find an ugly woman - the uglier the better.  Now this is no guarantee (there are no guarantees in love), but it will CERTAINLY increase your odds manyfold.

Of course, you could instead find a woman you deem to be sincere and trustworthy and just let go of the insecurity.  You'll be a happier person all-around.

John

... in response to Try this...., posted by oldbutspry on Aug 22, 2002

As the posts continue, the original question gets lost sometimes.

No, I don't think it is bad if a women considers if a guy will be able to support the family.

What leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the women who just throws away the letters from guys who live in apartments and don't own houses.   That was the original issue.  Jeeez many guys around here don't have a house because their ex now lives in it.  

There are many wonderful different types of Russian women.  It's the calculating opportunistic ones that I tried to stay away from.  For any guys that have been over there, they know what I'm talking about.

Wayne

... in response to Try this...., posted by oldbutspry on Aug 22, 2002

asd

... in response to Re: I don't know, doesn't everyone have ..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

This is really an interesting topic.Is marrying for economic reasons bad? Well if that is the SOLE reason that someone is marrying for then maybe it is.
 However it wasn't but maybe a short 80 or 90 years ago when here in the U.S., women didn't didn't have all these nice rights,education and access to good jobs and good pay like they do now. The women lived with their parents until they were married, because of social pressure and also for economic reasons. When they finally married you just didn't divorce. You HAD to stay together to make ends meet. A women just didn't move out and get an apartment and a job or else get on one of our various generous welfare programs or draw a child support check from her ex. You had to stay together to "run the farm" so to speak. So it appears as though economics had something to do with marriages and marriage stability back then.Obviously, divorce rates were ahell of lot lower back then, than they are now and finding a mate far less complicated for my grandfather than it is for me.

Well we have lost that economic component in these modern United States. American women are now educated ,independent ,and earn more than ever ."Just" having a "good" job and home,  no longer cut it as far as making you more desirable to these American women.Money in these United States only makes a difference if you are VERY well off. As a case in point I offer you the example of the all too common attractive women with the exciting /good looking / bad boy / jail bird/jerk type man who doesn't work and can't hold down a job. The women knows in this society she will have a roof over her head ,food on the table , ect ect. regardless of who she is with. So she will pick the more exciting,better looking ect. jerks over you, "the average decent American male".

You don't believe me! Well why don't you go try going to your nearest and most down trodden ghetto and try see if any of the attractive young women will date you.Are you kidding! They don't want a nice decent man like you who will rescue them from the ghetto. They want one of those slick rico suave none-working,wise guys.Not that you would want them either. This is just an example.
My conclusion is that since we have have lost that economic component, divorce with all its associated negative social impacts has risen.Finding a wife in America has become a nightmare. And to answer my theme question,"Is Marrying for Economic Reasons Bad?" Not necessarily

                           Nico

... in response to Is Marrying for Economic Reasons Bad?, posted by Nico on Aug 21, 2002

I fell on this one more than 20 years ago...

absolutely.

Dumbass dope dealin fools dumber than a stump... got'em all.  What's intriguing to me is that back then, the playboy centerfold was Candy Loving.  heh heh.  Now that's old.

Is there any place on this earth that a woman can respect and WANT a nice guy geek?

Ain't nothing changed Nico.

... in response to Is Marrying for Economic Reasons Bad?, posted by Nico on Aug 21, 2002

that is so true, I believe that todays women are looking for excitement and they see it in the lowlifes that treat them bad.

... in response to Re: I don't know, doesn't everyone have ..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

I think that women are all a bit different and we all look for something a little bit different.  My fiancee stayed in my little one room barracks for 90 days total when in Iceland and she saw the military apartments on the base and was extremely excited at their size and cleanliness.  She has told me many times that if we had only one room, she would be happy, because she was together with me.  She doesn't care at this time in our relationship where and what we live in...although time could change this.  Of course she has told me that her friends who also use the agency have different values than she does.  For instance, one girl was very much in love with a man from the U.S.A., but ended up marrying a German man eight months ago who had a nice bank account and big house.  Well, the marriage is dissolving now and this woman has said that she married for the wrong reason.

I believe that if a woman told me that her precondition to marriage was that I was a homeowner, I would dump her in a second.  I would do this whether I owned a home or not, because my preference is to find a woman where our emotional, physical and spiritual needs are most important in our relationship and the other things I will provide because I want to give her all possible as her husband.  I remember telling my wife's sister that I was buying all new furniture for the housing on the base, because I don't have any since divorce a couple of years ago and she told me that furniture is not important because our love will find a way.  Well I do have the means to furnish our home nicely, but it did tell me that at least this family has different values than espoused by others.

... in response to Can't put all FSU women in the same mold, posted by James B on Aug 21, 2002

After Victoria and I had met, and we were discussing our future, I was trying to explain to her that it might be a year or so before I have my credit repaired enough to buy a house.

In the meantime, we will be renting a house.

Her reposne -- via email -- was interesting.

I don't know if this is just a mixed metaphor, or whether she was using a translator that botched her intent, but she said:

"My love, with you I would live anywhere! Even in a tent on a desert of sugar..."

Hmmm... There's an interesting mental picture...

... in response to True... how's this for phraseology, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 21, 2002

of being divorced!

I said the same thing, but she doesn't want me to sell my house and move us to Florida before she gets here.... lol!

I'm getting a sense that more of us divorceeeees are as normal as ever.  All we need are women that think the same.... Normal.

Life is hell, then you live it.

:^)

... in response to Re: I don't know, doesn't everyone have ..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

If I didn't personally think that materialism was the main reason for RW looking west, then I probably wouldn't have bothered looking east, since my 'advantages' would be severely compromised.  Hey, this is just my take...everyone is entitled to judge RW primary motivation themselves and come to different conclusions.  Certainly lack of drunkeness, womanizing, etc. are pluses for us, just not the primary factor as far as I am concerned.

Seems to me that you should use your relative material wealth in comparison to FSU men to your advantage.

Stevo

... in response to No offense taken..., posted by Stevo on Aug 21, 2002

Very good... very good...  n/t

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

Remember what their vision of apartment life is. (Or many of them.) Dingey, cracked apartments with limited running water, and scheduled blackouts. Often time many family members share a bedroom. The rooms are tiny by our standards, and they are not always well insulated.

Would YOU want to live in that?

They are looking for a man who is a provider.

Yes, you want a woman who will love you no matter what -- but let's be reasonable. Part of our fantasy is finding a beautiful and traditional woman... but part of their fantasy is finding a man who will make their life better.

Stevo's wife didn't say that she wanted a mansion with a swimming pool... she just didn't want to live in a cramped apartment where four people have to share a bedroom (which is how a lot of the women there have had to live.)

She probably wanted hot water, too. Does this make her a gold digger?

I know that when I first started writing Victoria, I lived in an apartment. But it was a "luxury" apartment. I sent Victoria pictures of my daughter and I in and around the apartment, and she was amazed.

She told me later that the apartment thing was a concern to her in my first few letters, but she was more interested in finding a good man. Then, when she saw the apartment I lived in (complete with swimming pool, hot tub, and park) she wondered why I wanted to move into a house!

But when she tells me about the apartment that she lives in in Kherson, I can understand why she was hoping to live in a house when she came here...

... in response to I'm not so sure, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 21, 2002

Reason why I ask is that most people in these backwards places have well adapted to their means without the thought of "joe" from the usa, and can continue to go on in the same way regardless of whether or not they got a man stateside.

Of course, Victoria doesn't want to do a repeat of the former-soviet union thing all her life, or anything like it, but it doesn't make her in-capable of dealing with it.

And thanks very much for this personal post Mark, it makes the point of what's worth having...

working for.

It's the man and the relationship with his woman that makes the difference in the long run.

... in response to How many countries you been to?, posted by BrianN on Aug 22, 2002

I always felt California was different enough to be considered a whole different country...

Seriously... not as many as I would like... but I have seen a few.

Usually, when I go, I am sheltered from the countries poverty, though. It's like the Bahamas. You go there and stay at the Atlantis Casino, and you are surrounded by huge yachts and the richest of the rich... but if you travel one mile inland, you see poor people living in crumbling houses and huts...

But, you are right that people adjust, especially when its all they know.

When Victoria told me that their apartment had scheduled black-outs during the winter (Everyone has a time when they don't get electricity, bceause there is not enough to go around...) she wasn't describing a horror to her mind.

I can't imagine having a sick child though, coughing in bed, when the heat went out because of "scheduled" down-time.

... in response to Do you count California?   ;-), posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

Nah, you must be talking about LA...it is not a seperate country...but of another world!
LOL!

... in response to Do you count California?   ;-), posted by MarkInTx on Aug 22, 2002

Some say Texas is like a another country.  (smile0

... in response to Re: Do you count California?   ;-), posted by Robert D on Aug 22, 2002

Country?

Hell, Texas is a whole 'nother State of Mind

:-)

... in response to I'm not so sure, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 21, 2002

my fiancee had to heat water on the stove to take a bath and then mix with what little cold water. That trickled  out of the tap. NOt mention do not drink it or wash your teeth with it. Then to use the old wash water to pour down the toilet. The girls only know a little of what it is like here and they do know that some poeple have nice homes there.  They do not understand that we have many levels in the standard of life here. Yet we all can live decent. Over there you are either have very good money or poor. basically they have no middle class

... in response to Re: I'm not so sure, posted by snowwego on Aug 21, 2002

on where they're from to be able to evaluate a "middle class" standard.

... in response to Re: What my wife said..., posted by Wayne1 on Aug 21, 2002

I agree