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I might be changing my mind.  :)

Some posts have got me thinking and got me worried. Perhaps I am going about this all wrong AGAIN. Maybe I should meet more than one girl on my trip. Hmmmm.

Mark H.

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

tired just reading your post! Interesting analysis, partially true and partially untrue.

As for speed dating and whirling around with mulitple women....just not my style. I hate to say it but your description takes all the fun out of it for me. I've been 5 times and have had a ball all five times. I'm in no hurry to rush out and screen 4000 women to try to find Ms. Right. I like to take vacations and have fun, period. The nice thing about FSU areas is that you can combine the beautiful women with the travel. If I find the right girl, great. If not, great. I still write to several people who I have met along the way.

Also, my situation is not typical. Don't hate me because I can travel multiple times, not feeling the stresses of economics controlling my trips. When I was a struggling anesthesia student, I made 5 trips. It's not hard. You can be frugal and make the trips on less than what you would spend going to Vegas. I spent less than a grand on a couple of my trips. Airfare, apartments, etc... included. Just because I am making money now doesn't mean I have to throw my frugal personality out the window. I still shop for the best tickets, still search endlessly for the best apartments, etc...

I see alot of guys posting about the huge expense incurred with one of these trips....doesn't have to be.

Here is my approach. Write a few girls. Find a few that interest you. Narrow that field down to one primary who you want to visit. I've done that. I have one girl who I want to visit now. The list was down to two, one in Kazahkstan (awesome little beauty) and one who is in Kharkov. I've made my choice, I'll make my choice public in a little while. I'm working something as we speak.

Next, set up a connection with an agency in that city. I am going to rent my flat from this agency and have them as a backup. If I don't click with my #1 choice, I'll contact the agency and go from there. Simple, yes?

Mark H.

... in response to Dang Barry, I'm ......, posted by Mark H on Aug 12, 2002

Nasty ole' warthog Claire keeps posting abusive comments about you on the RWA forum. She does it almost every time you give any details about your plans.

-blm

... in response to P.S....., posted by BarryM on Aug 13, 2002

Barry,
That's because Claire hates me. I refused to have sex with her and now she is mad. She tried hard, very hard to seduce me. Over and over and over again, she threw herself at me, begging me to spank her and call her mommy. I refused, told her to get a life, and rejected her. Now she's pissed. I've never even seen this other board you speak of, I don't think I have. Have fun with her, tell her I said she's a dipshiiiiit.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: P.S....., posted by Mark H on Aug 13, 2002

Same here, she wanted me to milk those milk duds of her's, I refused. Nothing like a cow scorned.

... in response to Dang Barry, I'm ......, posted by Mark H on Aug 12, 2002

Gee Mark, my plan is not much of a speed dating thing. If you think about it, 20 girls over 6 weeks is not that many. You screen out most of them during the first 10 days. That's not so fun, but the rest of the time is all gravy. You'll actually run out of things to do by the 4th week. The idea is to give you enough time to find the right girl and for romance to develop.

Sure, you can accomplish the same thing by going over every 2 months or so, but you'll need to focus on one city for a while, rather than going all over the map. Any destination in Central Asia is going to cost you more than double compared with Kiev or Moscow. You may be able to get a cheap Aeroflop connecting flight in a rickety old Tupolev to a city such as Almaty but I would keep the motion sickness pills handy. I don't hate you for being able to make the trip over so often... I'm glad that you're able to. I actually have the cash to go over but my revenues are uncertain and I don't have enough backup cash in case of trouble. When my situation is stabilized I'll be making the trip over.

It seems to me that your approach is like playing darts while bleary-eyed drunk. You throw the dart in the general direction of the board but you often miss it. You eventually get lucky and hit the center target but how many tries is it going to take? If you're having fun in the process and you're not in that big a hurry, then keep doing what you're doing. Finding a good woman is never as simple as it may seem. Some people just get lucky sooner.

-blm

... in response to Re: Dang Barry, I'm ......, posted by BarryM on Aug 13, 2002

if you consider a guy is looking for a wife or soulmate.  Actually,  depending on the criteria...the #20 is miniscule.  For instance here.  If I go out with friends to a club for say 2 hours---I can easily in 2 hours meet maybe 7 different girls and have a little chat and do a little dance.  In that 10 minutes of time I know whether a) we have any chemistry, b) whether I like her personality c)if I or we should pursue this any further.

  So 20???  Not a big # in my mind.  Especially if you are looking for your mate.  Everybody has a different way of doing things and different tastes and needs and it does sort of defy probablity thinking that one could blow the time and money to go there and meet that one girl you have corresponded with and everything clicks....but it can happen.  There is a certain beauty to that,  but not something most will acheive.

... in response to 20 is not a big #, posted by tim360z on Aug 13, 2002

especially if you meet them all in the first few days..

Oscar

... in response to 20 is not a big #, posted by tim360z on Aug 13, 2002

In my opinion you are correct in that 20 is really a very small number to see. I guess those who met only one, fell in love with the only one and married the only one Russian woman they ever met would tend to disagree.

Tim it is my goal for each client I work with for him to have from 6 to 8 sincere ladies to see in each city. These are ladies that he has chosen. Maybe he had to write 20 or 22 ladies to find 7 ladies to see in and around Odessa (as an example). It probably took anywhere from 3 to 4 months of work and effort to come up with these 7 sincere ladies.

I tell each of these guys that if in your heart and mind you could marry any of these 7 ladies, you have done your homework and should have an enjoyable trip. In this guys mind, he is excited about each of these ladies, he could marry any of these seven ladies. Now the first full day in Odessa he has a 11:00am and 2:00pm light lunch and a 5:00pm and 8:00pm light dinner. The next day he has a 12 noon lunch and a 3:00pm and 6:00pm light dinner. After his first full two days he has meet the 7 ladies, each meeting being two hours long, each meeting three hours apart. Now, after two days he has meet all 7 ladies, and he has not spent two days with each lady, but two hours!

On AVERAGE, after meeting 7 ladies, a guy might have potential chemistry with one lady and he will be d@mned lucky if he has potential chemistry with two ladies, BUT only three days earlier he felt he had chemistry with all 7 ladies! This is reality and the sooner guys realize this the better off they will be. This is why you don't plan to spend 2, or 5 or 7 days with a woman you never met, you spend two hours with her, then if you discover you have potential chemistry with a woman, you spend the remaining 4 or 5 days with her, before you go to city number 2 and repeat the process.

It is a numbers game, you must meet a lot of SINCERE ladies in a short period of time looking for that lady who has that potential chemistry that you are looking for. This is why you spend 2 hours, not two days, with each lady. And of course the exception to this rule is when you have a lady come to visit you from another region, in which case you almost always have to commit two days to this lady.

And I will repeat for the 1,114 time, all men are different, what works for some guys, will not work for others. Some men cannot see more than one woman, some men cannot write more than one woman at a time, so each guy must do what he thinks is best for him.

... in response to 20 is not a big #, posted by Jack on Aug 13, 2002

I'm not finding fault with your methods but I want to explain why I can't do it that way. First off I write long letters and don't believe in the carbon copy method ie. everyone gets the same letter with just the name changed. Every letter I write is original. I also write in Russian with the help of a translation program. It takes some time. The ladies who write to me tend to write long letters usually only in Russian. When I'm not busy I can handle a couple of letters a day. Quite often the ladies I write to write me several times a week. 20 women, 2-4 letters each a week, leads to a massive overload of information.

If I wrote or met that many women at once I wouldn't even be able to remember who's who. It would be hard to even keep the names stright let alone remember any individual details. I'd most likely go after which ever one I found was most physically attractive and that isn't neccessarily the best woman for me. The way I think is that any of these girls could be what I'm looking for. Therefore they all deserve at least a little of my time and concentration. For me this is about finding the best match not a race to get married.

Many of the qualities that I think are most important don't show up in a short interview. Oh, I could discard women quickly for little differences from my ideal. But the thing is my ideal is a fantasy, I'm looking for a real woman and I won't  hurt a good lady because she's not perfection. Maybe a girl who doesn't match all my criteria will be the right one. Won't know that until I've spent some time with her. There are very few things that make me dump a lady out of hand.

And for the guys who say they can't afford more than one trip to the FSU... If you can't afford a trip you won't be able to afford a family. Save everyone a little pain and trouble and don't start making aquaintances until you think you can afford a future. These girls deserve that much.

... in response to My reasons for going small., posted by Zink on Aug 13, 2002


Dude... if I "went small" I don't think I'd be broadcasting it on a BBS...

Besides, I always thought that it was cold water that made a guy go small... At least that's what the Seinfield episode on Shrinkage said...

... in response to What an unfortunate expression!, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 14, 2002

I thought 300 pound AWs was what made guys do that.

... in response to Re: What an unfortunate expression!, posted by Zink on Aug 14, 2002

asd

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

Mark,

I think you are wise to re think this. Mark, what post(s) or thoughts got you to look at this again and rethink it all? Verbalizing this might help someone else who is or arriving at your situation.

Here is why I felt better going over to see one woman.

1) I am the romantic type - herding a bunch of women in front of you and then choosing is not romantic.

2) I am the loyal type - so, once I initiate letter writing and if it evolves over time, I find myself feeling that I need to be loyal.

But, if it was here in the USA, I would rather go to a gathering where there are a lot of women and check them out.

Once I saw one that got my attention, I would want to talk to her and get a feel for who she was. Things would either click or they would not. If they did, well that would be hurdle two accomplished.

Then, dating would be the next step and seeing where it took us.

So, this would be my normal comfortable way of going about this.  

Now, we get the FSU thing in here and it throws me all off.

So,  how can I do it my way and not feel like I have to go over and meet just one woman?

A) Do not get involved in any long letter writing campaign that tends to promote loyalty that is really unfounded as I have not met her
B) Therefore, the first thing is to decide which approach is to be used.
1) Is it to go with an Agency like Jack's - not a bad choice in  my way of thinking. An excellent introduction for a first trip and could be  the one that gets the results.
2) Go, with the big socials - not for me- I have no confidence in such.  
3) Just scan all the photo's and bio's and find a lady that you are really interested in and then make contacts with her and many women from her area. Make the contacts fairly close to when you have decided you will go so that there are no attachments. Let the attachments be a result of real time life and not fantasy thoughts from letters and photographs.
4) Pick a city that you think you would like to visit for a vacation or where you think the ladies are at and send out intro's to a ton of ladies before you go and/.or run ads.

By taking these approaches, I get to do things the way I want and do not find myself in a corner that I have created. In other words do not do activities before your trip that would get you attached - plain and simple.

Just my thoughts.

So, what does that mean for me. I am not writing now to anyone until I commit to going over. Right now, I am dating a wonderful AW and may not have the need to go over anyway. Time will tell.

Why am I still here? Because I have not dropped the idea totally. My life is too busy right now and I want to see how things turn out for others I have gotten to know here. Also, in the early days, there were many who gave me a great deal of help. If I can return any of that to anyone who was in my situation when I first came here - I want to do that.

.

... in response to :), posted by greg2 on Aug 12, 2002


2 Questions if I may, Greg...

When Mark H was dating an AW, you predicted that he would be "back"... and you were right...

Why did you think that?

And, if someone were to place a wager on your AW relationship and whether you would "be back"... where do you think the smart money would lie...?

... in response to Hmmm, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 13, 2002

About MarkH and him being back?  I don't know - just a strong hunch.

Myself - it is not as easy to read yourself sometimes as it is situations for other people I think. As for myself - where would the smart money bet? Can't say. I would prefer that things evolve nicely with the lady that I am with but, there are all sorts of possible pit falls to that end yet to be possibly  encountered.

If this does not work out, it is a sure bet that I will be back on track with this approach. At that point, I will refuse to date AW and will be %100 on this. The chances are that I will make my first trip with Jack.

... in response to Re: Hmmm, posted by thesearch on Aug 13, 2002


::: lifting a glass of Shiner Bock :::

"Here's to Greg and his Lady... may she show herself for what she truly is sooner rather than later..."

(That toast isn't as obvious as it seems...)

... in response to Hmmm, posted by MarkInTx on Aug 13, 2002

Mark,

 With Greg, in my opinion, it is even money, 50-50. If I were a betting man I would think he could just as easily get hooked up with an AW.

... in response to Re: Hmmm, posted by Jack on Aug 13, 2002

Wow... I would need odds to take that bet.

Even money, eh?

Nope... I won't take that one!

... in response to :), posted by greg2 on Aug 12, 2002

Greag,
Hey guy, how's it hanging? I hear you about the busy life. !! As for a post or something said to make me change my mind...not sure. Just a compilation of posts I guess. In the end, I still do it my way (BarryM is right there!). My way is to find one girl and go see her, book your apartment through a third party or agency so this girl has no control over your situation at all. In the past, my mistake was that the girl arranged the apartment for me. That was okay when I was broke, now it's not okay. I paid on average $10 bucks a night for a nice apartment...Rooskie prices my girl got for me. Now, I would rather pay more and have the control of having the apartment on my own. If we don't click, I can pursue other venues. Use an agency for your flat and they are ready and available should the need arise. I think this provides you with the chivalry of seeing "one girl" with the latitude of having "back up plans" if the need arises.

There is a waitress in Kiev I'd love to see......perhaps drop by the pub.

Later,
Mark H.

... in response to Re: :), posted by Mark H on Aug 12, 2002

Sounds like a  plan. When do you anticipate going over anyway?

... in response to Re: Re: :), posted by thesearch on Aug 12, 2002

Hey Greg,
I just did quite a few priceline.com bids and got nothing. I can't believe it. It was like I was possessed. I went as high as $1200 bucks and still didn't get a flight! Weird. I called gotorussia.com today and spoke with them, it seems everything into Kiev is booked on 23 August and the return on 30, 31, 1, and 2 september is booked also. Must be alot of people going over this summer.

Almaty was 1600 bucks. Hmmm. Seems high to me, I'd rather go to Germany, Spain, and Ireland on 3 different trips for that cash. Not sure when I'll go. I did find a trip from Chicago to Kiev for under 900 bucks but I'd be cutting my trip by a few days. We'll see.

Mark H.

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

After reading the responses here, I see that most people here are simply not paying attention. Mark H's situation is a logistics problem requiring good project planning. Let's take a look at the data.

1. Mark H has plenty of funds and fairly large blocks of time in which to travel to the FSU unlike most of us "poor" folks.

2. Mark H has expressed his displeasure about buying addresses or personal ads and letter writing campaigns.

3. Mark H is pretty headstrong and he likes to do things his way.

4. Mark H has many years of experience in traveling to the FSU and has had many unsucessful attempts in the pursuit of a RW/UW bride.

5. Mark H has concentrated most of his trips in major cities such as Moscow, Kiev, and St. Petersburg rather than areas that haven't been overfished.

The above case study is different than for most of us and the conditions require a different approach.

Solution:

For #1.Mark H should plan at least a 6 week trip to a target area. He seems to have the flexibility to take that much time and a well planned trip would be in order.

For #2. For most of us, the screening process requires searching thousands of ads and several months of responding to ads and letter writing. Writing campaigns are very time consuming but are economical and seem to be the best way of screening for most of us. Mark H doesn't seem to want to use this approach. He will have to rely on multiple agencies to perform the screening process for him based on his preferences. Clear communication of intent with these agencies is essential. He should pre-screen at least 150 girls that the agencies hand pick for him and choose at least 20 of them in his selected target area.

For #3. Well, given his past experiences, there's not much that can be done. He is going do things his way and when he makes mistakes it will cost him time and money. Hopefully his experience will help him avoid that. The best thing to do is to stick with a plan and not change things midstream.

For #4. Mark H's travel experience is a positive thing. He knows what to expect, how much things cost in general, and how to avoid potential problems. Mark just needs a well though out game plan.

For #5. Mark H needs to avoid the past MOB "hot spots" and focus on less popular areas. Western Ukraine, Moldova, the Baltic states, and Central Asia would be my targets. There is still plenty of good fishing in Siberia and other less popular areas in Russia. I would avoid the popular cities such as Tver, Moscow, and St. Petersburg. Keep and eye out for more economically stressed areas since there will be a larger pool of available women in those areas. Central Asia is becoming more popular now because of ethnic divisions.

Let's say Mark H chooses Kazakhstan as his target area. Kazakhstan is ethnically slightly less than 50% Russian and is controlled politically by Muslims. Ethnic Russians want to leave so there is a pretty good pool of girls to choose from. Before Mark makes is trip, he chooses his 20 girls and sets up dates with them through the various agencies. He also understands the conditions in which the agencies do business such as interpreters, fee's, taxi service, etc. prior to sending them any money. He also may want to choose a few alternates at each agency if one of the agencies screws up.

The first 10 days are to screen and choose the best 5 - 6 girls out of the 20. Basically, a slow paced 1 - 3 dates a day. The next 10 days are to get his choices down to no more than 3. Mark may want to take a look at a few more girls if he is not satisfied with the current crop during that time. The remainder of the trip is to get his choices down to no more than 2. I would not get engaged this early on. Save that for the next trip.

A few months later, after letting the romance develop long distance, plan a 7 day trip back to Kazakhstan. Have a backup plan in case things don't work out with a few girls who didn't make it on the first trip. This is the trip where Mark would make the decision to get engaged and go through the k-1 process.

If the first 42 day trip to the chosen target area does not produce satisfactory results, then plan another 42 day trip in a different area and follow the same formula. I'm convinced this process is a numbers game. Keep playing and you'll eventually hit paydirt. Don't do anything without a good plan and always have a good backup plan.

-blm

... in response to 20 or more girls, 42 days, the best plan..., posted by BarryM on Aug 12, 2002

Mark,

From what I have gleened from agency owners and experienced people looking for their companion, I believe than most of the women understand that this process of screening the women for compatibility and spark is quite a normal thing for both parties.  The pressure or obligation you feel to protect a woman's feelings shows you are a good person who is sensitive.  It's a good trait, but looking for the right one for your life is so vitally important that I believe that your change in direction is the best choice.  Spend some time with a handful of women after writing some letters and see which one is perfect for you.  I believe that these women are doing the same thing if they are truly looking for a lifetime of love and compatibility and if they are not, it's a possibility that they are only looking for the first man to ask for marriage and too would be at risk for stopping short of their ideal mate.  Of course, if you write to a woman for a long period of six or eight months and feel an incredible mutual attraction through letters and telephone calls, then some flexibility in this course of action might be appropriate.  Good luck, Jim

... in response to 20 or more girls, 42 days, the best plan..., posted by BarryM on Aug 12, 2002

This is a nice piece of analysis and a good plan.  However, one of your assumptions is wrong: according to Mark H, he can not get more than 9.5 days off in a row. (See his message below: http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/russian/messages/74191.html

... in response to Re: 20 or more girls, 42 days, the best ..., posted by Alfred on Aug 12, 2002

The plan can be scaled but the costs would more than quadruple. You could have a series of 6 day trips(3 days for travel) but that's airfare for up to 6 trips. Now if Mark H would do the more traditional screening process of personal ads and writing campaigns over a 6 month period he could eliminate the amount of women to screen while on the trip and reduced the amount of time spent in the FSU. It's just a lot of work. My plan for Mark would take less than a year from start to finish. Most of us are on a 2 year plan since that seems to be typical in the search.

-blm

... in response to 20 or more girls, 42 days, the best plan..., posted by BarryM on Aug 12, 2002

and are you going to go?

... in response to so whats your plan, posted by Stan B on Aug 12, 2002

I've been affected adversely by the recession.

-blm

... in response to 20 or more girls, 42 days, the best plan..., posted by BarryM on Aug 12, 2002

....just to get a date!

... in response to Seems like a lot of work............., posted by Jeff on Aug 12, 2002

Yes, it is a lot of work just to get a date.. It is NOT so much work if you are actually looking for a wife!

I just can't imagine guys wanting to go all the way to the FSU with all the time and expense involved, if they are not really serious about finding a wife!  Geez, if all I wanted to do was "date", I would have stayed in the USA to do it..

I have seen some guys go who were major daters here in my city who are older now and just can't "draw" the women like they used to anymore, so they go to the FSU where they can feel at the top of their game again, but they aren't anymore serious about finding a wife now than they were then, they just don't know how..  Pretty sad really..  

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

I was lucky i went over for one girl and only one girl and it has worked for me. Not usall for this to happen

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

Mark,

You might consider writing a personal ad.  If you place a personal ad a couple of weeks before you leave, you will have a bunch of letters and photos waiting for you when you get there.  This way you will not feel like you have "cheated" on your #1 or anything because you have not been writing to or calling these women before you go.  Once there, if you hit it off great with your #1 girl, great, you don't need to contact any of the women who answered the ad.  If you don't feel like your #1 is "the one" after you get there, you can start contacting the women who were interested enough in you to answer your ad.

If you just start writing to girls in agencies, you will have "started" a relationship with them by writing and they will certainly be upset if you never contact them once you are there, and you will likely also feel bad just dumping them.

If you do decide to place a personal ad, a couple of things-
Be sure to have a local address and phone number for the girls to call and ask questions about you and to send their photos and letters.  You will get a much greater response than if they have to send their stuff (at great expense to them) all the way to the USA!  So you will need an agent or representative in the city you are going to.

This is how I met my fiance.  She saw and liked my photo and what I had to say and she responded, along with many others.  She had never been in an agency and had no desire to join one.  She just happened to see my ad in the newspaper and liked it.  

For what it's worth,
Oscar

... in response to Re: Here's a shocker....., posted by Oscar on Aug 11, 2002

If the girl he's thinking of meeting lives in the city where the ad is run, what will she think of it? There is a very good chance she will see it in a local paper. Could kill the budding relationship they've already got going. If the ad is run in a different city then you get travel/logistics problems. I like the idea of ads, just not this late in the game.

... in response to One problem., posted by Zink on Aug 11, 2002

If the girl he is writing to is from an agency (I think he said she was), then she is likely writing to all who write her as well!  Didn't he say she was writing to 3 guys??
If so, I don't see why it would be a problem.  
I made it clear to all the women I wrote to and spoke with by phone before going that I would be meeting another woman there.  There was only one woman out of 18 I had written and spoken to to who said it wasn't for her, that if I was coming to meet anyone other than her, she was out.  So I told her where the door was!  No other woman was offended or thought this unreasonable, that I would be meeting another woman, coming so far at such expense looking for a soulmate.  
I was writing to quite a few women and also ran an ad, but none of them ever saw it..  Maybe I was lucky?? LOL!

I could just never recommend going to meet only one woman you have never met...  So I would do whatever I had to to make sure and have some backups..

Just my 2 cents,
Oscar

... in response to Re: One problem., posted by Oscar on Aug 11, 2002

Honesty.

At this point in the game, if he runs an ad, he needs to tell her. The truth is not going to hurt him. He wanted to come to meet just her. His friends (here) told him no do not do this. He is doing it to be practical, but the whole reason he is making the trip in the first place is because of her. If she does not like him, or vice versa, his trip may not become a total waste. But the facts are, this trip is really centered all around HER. The only reason that he is running an ad for that area, if he decides to, is because of her.

If she does not understand this, he does not want her anyway.

The other option is to not run an ad but use every source he can to make some introductions in the area that will not be so visible. Also, to find agencies in the area he can contact when he is there if needed.

... in response to Re: One problem., posted by Oscar on Aug 11, 2002

Good points. I wasn't thinking about the fact she was already writing many guys.

I've got no problems with going to meet one girl. But I definitely advocate backups. It is a lot of time and money wasted if meeting the wrong girl was the whole reason for your trip. I guess I've been lucky that I've always connected with my #1 choice. Just haven't met the lady I can't live without yet.

... in response to Re: Re: One problem., posted by Zink on Aug 12, 2002

Even though the woman that he is going to meet may be writing more than one man, seeing his personal add will still have a negative effect on their relationship.  It explicitly states that he is less than 100% commited to the relationship.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: One problem., posted by Alfred on Aug 12, 2002

Just how in Sam Hill can any mentally and emotionally balanced person be 100% committed to someone they have never spent 1 second with???  Maybe someone desperate.  Gggeezzz!  And I am a  bit of a romantic.  Most girls I have met from Russia and Ukraine are very very practical.  You have to be to live there.  To be committed...ya gotta have a real in person relationship...not a pile of emails and translations. To ever become 100% committed to 1 person you have never even met seems...delusional.  Now,  I still do beleive in magic happening---but keep your eyes wide open.  But,  there is no relationship here...just virtual pitter-patter.  Hopes and dreams,  smoke and mirrors.  You can bet that the girl is not 100% committed to this "relationship" with a guy she has never spent 1 everlovinsecond with.  In fact,  she would probably think that if,  after a few emails and this guy is 100% committed to "their relationship"...that he is 1 crazy Americanitz.

... in response to Huh???  Thats Delusional, posted by tim360z on Aug 12, 2002

Come on Tim, don't hold back, express how you really feel about it!

... in response to don't hold back, posted by Jack on Aug 12, 2002

Hiya Jack,

That was it buddy.  I hope I wasn't too,  well,  you know...like LPish on that one.  I just can't conceive how anyone with a balanced brain can ever consider he's got a "relationship" with zero in-person time. Let alone,  100% committed relationship.  Now,  perhaps I am kinda old-fashioned,  or I grew up in a poor neigborhood,  or my life's experience is lacking,  but...I just don't think you got a relationship until you spend time together in the real world.  Methinks.

... in response to Gee,  Jackie Bragg.......Methinks, posted by tim360z on Aug 12, 2002

Hey Tim,

You know, some people are ready enough to get married in their lives that they really can make a decision to love sight unseen.  When you realize that still much of the world marry without ever having seen, let alone dated the person they end up marrying, it helps put it into perspective.
Love, like marriage, is, in my opinion, a choice we make.  There are many men who go to the FSU and say that they found a hot, fantastic woman or women etc, yet they still don't choose to get married, they aren't ready for whatever reason, often they don't even know the reason.  So they sabotage it unconsciously, thinking maybe her ankles are just a bit too thick, or she just isn't quite slender enough or her hair just isn't the right color etc.. they just aren't very good at committing.  
But some men are very ready and may be able to make that decision without meeting, based on things other than appearance alone.  I admit it would be the rare guy that could do this, but some do and I personally won't put them down for it.  Perhaps they are wise not letting their little head do their thinking for them! ;-)

... in response to Re: Gee,  Jackie Bragg.......Methinks, posted by Oscar on Aug 12, 2002

Oscar,
Please tell me you don't think it is OK to decide to marry someone before meeting them.
KenC

... in response to you have GOT to be kidding, posted by KenC on Aug 14, 2002

Ken, I am saying that for some people, it can be their way and it can work.  This is where the term "mail order bride" actually originated you know.  It was a guy working next to another guy laying railroad ties in the 1800s and one guy says hey, do you want to write to my sister back in Ireland?  The other guys says sure.  They write for a year and they decide to get married, he sends for her, end of story.  This kind of thing happened all the time.  
And with the advent of the internet, many are doing it this way again.  I have heard of many people who have written and decided they were the right ones for each other before actually physically meeting and did get married and are happy.  I actually know one couple personally that did exactly this and they are really great together.  It's a very interesting story.

There are more people in the world today Ken that marry people they have never dated before than those who date first and I can tell you that their divorce rates are MUCH lower than ours!  What do they know that we do not?  That love is a choice we make..

Is it for me personally?  No. Is it possible?  Certainly.  If you believe that loving someone is a choice, it is very possible.

Oscar

... in response to Re: Gee,  Jackie Bragg.......Methinks, posted by Oscar on Aug 12, 2002

is doing the thinking there or which quadrant of the brain. However,  in life,  one can be lucky.  But...not always.  There is the question of human dynamics face to face,  in real time.  No letters,  no emails,  no telephone calls...just face time...one to one.  It is far easier to "fall in love" than to maintain a day in and day out healthy relationship for life.  And this education does not begin until you are married.  One may wish and want it,  one may have a fantasy,  but there is no substitute for real life in realtime.  In marriage,  one should exercise some degree of judgement in choosing a spouse.  And it is far easier to jump into it with a "leap of faith"...than to get out of it.  Is it possible to fall in love in letters??? Sure.

... in response to Re: Here's a shocker....., posted by Oscar on Aug 11, 2002

Please return any photos with a short "thanks, but no thanks" note to any lady who writes you that you are not interested. Show so manners for those that follow in you footsteps. These ladies don't just have tons of photos to squander and if you are not interested, please return them. Show some American class.

... in response to Out of courtesy..., posted by Rags on Aug 11, 2002

Certainly that would be the courteous thing to do..  He could even do it once he got home if he wanted, or have his local representative take care of that end.  I know Jacks people do return photos and thank them for their responses etc if you want them to..

Oscar

... in response to Re: Here's a shocker....., posted by Oscar on Aug 11, 2002

n/t

... in response to so, Oscar, who's photo did you run?  LOL..., posted by KenC on Aug 11, 2002

.

... in response to Tom Selleck!  LOL  n/t, posted by Oscar on Aug 11, 2002

Great comeback.

rotflmao.

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

Why not use my method. I find 1 or 2 girls in the same general area. Usually my selection process is seeing who will still write to me after a month or so. I have a great initial response that dries up quickly. After I've found a nice girl who wants to meet me and know where I'm going, I do an intensive search for anyone who looks interesting in that city and make a large backup folder. The only flaw I know of in my plan is I have yet to use my backups. I always planned on contacting them if things went badly. But I've always really liked my #1's and spent most of my time with them.

I'm a one woman kind of guy. I've tried to do the 100 woman speed date like WmGo. It just doesn't work for me. I'd rather spend a lot of time visiting and making friends with a lady I'm not going to married than speed date. The qualities I'm looking for only show up after spending plenty of time with a girl. I don't feel that I'm under any kind of time constraints either. I want to travel every year. So if I travel to Russia once or twice a year and date 1 or two women each time, that's good enough for me. Do what you're comfortable with.

... in response to Re: Here's a shocker....., posted by Zink on Aug 11, 2002

Zinkster,

After numerous trips and a lot of learning I am slowly gravitating towards a middle of the road approach. Instead of meeting several ladies a day and going to multiple cities, my latest approach is to schedule just two a day  and to stay in one city :)

I am going to St. Pete in a couple of weeks.

Regards from the South!

WmGOinagaintothefarnorth

... in response to Re:  Speed Dating, posted by WmGo on Aug 11, 2002

I've got nothing against your method. I just can't seem to pull it off myself. For some guys it works. I just can't make this go like a job interview. And because I don't use agencies for help in Russia I don't have the option of letting them set up the dates for me. I've considering doing that but I'm content with my slow paced, laid back approach.

Regards from the south(of Canada).

... in response to Re: Re:  Speed Dating, posted by Zink on Aug 11, 2002

caught the sarcasm of my referring to two meetings a day as a "middle of the road" approach :)

... in response to Noone, posted by WmGo on Aug 13, 2002

You're right. That went right over my head. Out of curiousity how many girls do you meet on your trips? I know you've got more experience over there than most of the guys. I met 3 on my last trip. I was supposed to meet more but it didn't work out. For me that was enough.

... in response to Re: Here's a shocker....., posted by Zink on Aug 11, 2002

For what it is worth, I like this way best and really it is pretty much what I am doing this time.  (First time I went with one and blew chunks with the girl but learned lots about everything else) I find the logistics of a berryM method tuff to carry-out and only looks good on paper as what might happen is that you could piss off a good one you were counting on by putting her on the sideline to check out the others.  You can’t always go back!

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

Tim360 and others are correct as much as I cannot stand finding other women when I think you have the one you just must do it.  I still date AW threw the personals here in the U.S.A. and one after the next it is the same.  (I still date here as it can be fun if you don't care and it's better that sitting at home and putting in a tape)  You have to have a few other women that you can call and meet you someplace.
Good luck,
Ryan

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

Hiya Mark,

You just don't know how the old "chemistry" will be until you have spent some real face to face time with the girl.  And "chemistry" is quite important to most girls.  Within a minute or 2 they feel whether or not you are a candidate.  Instead of a click---there could be a clunk.  And there you are standing there in St. Petersburg or Krememchug...alone and thinkin'....its a long ride back home for a date that didn't work out.

This "date" of yours is not a 10 minute drive.  In that case,  not much of a loss.  But,  in your scenario you are dropping a few grand to go and meet your potential date.  You owe it to yourself to have some well thought out plans and the option to meet other girls while you are there. A little "risk management" is not a bad idea.  A little insurance.  You buy insurance for your car???  Right?

You owe it to youself to do a little thinking here.  Nothing wrong in being a little practical when you are jumping on a plane to go to the FSU and blowing alot of dough and time.  The odds are this 1 girl could be your 1 and only.  The odds are also that she ain't.  This world hands out no awards for being stupid...so think it over.

How about if I told you that I exchanged some emails with a girl here n the USA and I am driving 3000 miles to go and meet her for lunch.  You might think I was totally outta my mind and....you would probably be right.  

But,  if I said I was driving 3000 miles to meet 20 girls and have lunch,  you might think that...I got a pretty good plan.  Think it over.

... in response to Chemistry 101, posted by tim360z on Aug 11, 2002

...is that women get very jealous of men that go see other women.  That can really blow it for you if the woman thinks she's just another one of the crowd.  Mark_H has to be either completely honest with the women or lie very convincingly to the woman he is with that she is his one true interest.  Personally I have very selective tastes and I could never find 20 women that I am actually interested in at any one location.  

Still, always have a backup plan like you said and the phone numbers for several agencies in the area.  Contact them before you go over and check out their websites.  These small agencies got very little that would interest me.  

... in response to The flip side of risk management..., posted by BubbaGump on Aug 12, 2002

I would be either bored or worn out.  But,  emails and photos and even telephone calls are rather virtual.  Nobody really knows nothing until some realtime is spent together. Now,  conceiveably one could encounter a person through that method and go over and meet only her and everyting will "click".  However,  I think that would be rather exceptional...yes,  it can happen...that you get to know only one girl and go over and "she's the one".  Conversely,  it could be a big disappointment.  I think a balanced approach is best.  Even if you are per-sold on this one girl---have some options ready that you can implement in case things go "clunk" when you meet.  Over and out.

... in response to Chemistry 101, posted by tim360z on Aug 11, 2002

I agree completely.

... in response to Chemistry 101, posted by tim360z on Aug 11, 2002

I like your use of the phrase "risk management." That is a pretty good way of looking at it.

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

You must remember that there are those on this board who are in the business of offering services to guys who are looking for women from fsu.

All kinds of scare mongerering and other sublime tactics are being used to subvert the indipendent traveler and the "One woman approach".

Be ready for those who will jump to the defence of our resident agency owner.

... in response to Cronies and moneymaking, posted by Pordzhik on Aug 11, 2002

"Poser Dick", the troll enabler and the source of the mythical $17 a night flats in the center of Kiev wants to be your consultant in the matters of romance.

Just be aware that "poser dick" doesn't give a rats &ss about you or anyone else here... he just wants to take shots at the boards' "resident agency owner".

I believe "poser dick" is one of the stealth personalities of an previously banned dirtbag.

-blm

... in response to Of course, Mark, you can always follow t..., posted by BarryM on Aug 11, 2002

I rest my case.

... in response to Be ready for those who will jump to the ..., posted by Pordzhik on Aug 12, 2002

I didn't know that, poster dick, you got flats in the center of Kiev for $17?  Is this a well kept secret you are trying to keep or will you share this information with the other posters?

... in response to good information! , posted by Jack on Aug 12, 2002

For those who wish to check the archives, the 17dollar flat was in lviv www.lvivhotel.boom.ru

The mention of Kiev was jacks dis-information.

The mention of central Kiev is barrym's blunder.

Although recently I did find a studio in Darnitsa for less than this,  anyone can find them in Aviso

And gentlemen please.....a little less of the schoolboyish name calling?

... in response to 17 dollar flat, posted by Pordzhik on Aug 13, 2002

My mistake Pordzhik, I didn't take the time, and not about to, in going thru past archives to verify your previously mentioning flats in Kiev for $17. I know that is a crazy price, unless your name is Max. I assummed, and apparently incorrectly, that Barry must have saw something written by you indicating flats in the center of Kiev for $17.

 And about this schoolboyish name calling, are you referring to "scare mongering, sublime tactics or subvert the independant travler"?

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

Mark,
Be SURE you wear "Nike Air Jordans - size 11.5".
If you cannot walk properly in them, don't worry - it's not the shoes - you're just not walking correctly!
After all, one size does indeed fit all.

... in response to Here's a shocker....., posted by Mark H on Aug 11, 2002

It gets expensive in both time and money to travel to the FSU for one girl at a time. Wouldn't it be better to spend 6 weeks and see 20 girls ?

-blm