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My wife has an acquaintance that came over from Russia and married the man on the second day. They have been living in California for the past 3 months or so.

The man is doing very poorly in financial matters. He lost a job and for the past several weeks he just sits at home reading newspapers. And I don't mean looking at the Jobs Offered section.

When her mother calls (she is living here in Georgia) to her, the man now won't speak to her, like he once did. Now, mama has learned that they are planning to fly to Italy to visit his parents.

Her green card interview was scheduled for the next week (or at least soon), and he called to reschedule it. The girl said it was set for six months out.

I have a feeling that he's not planning to come back. He is in credit card debt for many thousands of dollars ($20,000 to $40,000) and is heavily upside down on a house he paid a premium price for.

My wife said that the man got visas to Italy for both. I didn't think the person that came over on fiance visa could leave the country and come back without a green card of something? I came to the US with my wife and I already married, so I am not fully aware of all details of the special conditions involved for travel.

Any thoughts about this? What would be the result if they did leave and actually try to return to the US?

Thanks

Chris

... in response to Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

Geez...  Folks this is a perfect illustration as to what can happen to YOU...

Any one here worked for WorldCom ?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2463-2002Jul25.html

... in response to Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

Chris,

Ya know it's a really bad habit to meddle in peoples lives like this.  Even though you haven't posted names, I don't think it's even right to be posting details such as you have.  I'm sure if they read what you posted, they would not be happy.  It's very personal stuff your mucking around in.  The fact is that she is not a child.  She is a grown women and can make decisions for her own life.  He is not beating her that you know of.  They are both adults in an adult world.

This is precisely why alot of guys don't encourage their wives to make friends with other Russian women.
Because of stories like this.

Just because it is a Russian/American marriage does that make it any more right for you to get involved?  There are probably at least 10 or 12 far more serious injustices on your neiborhood street that you could try to get involved in.  You lookin to get into social work or something?

When I was married to my Russian wife, she had some friends giving her some real crappy advice on the basis of one side of the story.  Be very careful, because the same thing could happen to you when you hit a few bumps in the road, and I guarentee you won't like reading about your details on this board posted by someone who only heard half of the story.

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Wayne1 on Jul 26, 2002

Well, I asked a question about the ability for the girl (grown woman) to leave the US and return.

My wife is concerned that the mother may lose her daughter. She has no idea who the man's parents are, nor where they actually live in Italy. We are suggesting that she get all details before they leave, which is very soon.

So far, I am not "involved" as you say. I am throwing out some information because it all seems very strange. If a pattern in the situation sounds familiar to someone, I hope they can say something.

Is something terrible going on here, I don't know. I don't want anything bad to occur to anyone. You can read on a few major news agencies about how women get sold into "slavery". Sad fact, but it happens.

I did give them all "names", just to avoid confusion.

After saying all that, I do understand your point. If I can urge the girl's mother to become more involved, I will do so. If someone here can offer better insight I'd welcome that too.

But, to sit back and turn a blind eye, I just find it difficult to do. The mother calls to speak to my wife almost daily. None of them is fully aware of all the legal  complications that can arise now.

Thank you for your input, it will help keep me focused.

Chris

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

While it may sound fishy to be fishing in dark waters, the concern is well placed, as it is SHE that may not be able to get back in.  Yeah baby, we'll go to Italy for a while, then we'll see what happens after that.  Charles is correct on this point for sure.  There ARE TWO sides to it, BUT, this could eventually turn out to be a tradgedy for ONE.  The risk is just too great for her to leave imo.

... in response to Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

Chris,

I certainly understand your desire to help and give advice, but I am afraid stories like that always have two sides to it, so it is dangerous in a way to give any sort of advice.

There is a strange behavior on both sides - him postponding interview when it is almost there (it is much easier to buy tickets or go to Italy week later) and hers decision to marry on the second day, especially since her Mom is already here.

Assuming that the story you posted is the only facts you provided - my very simple advice would be for her not to go to Italy. Plain and simple. Whatever decisions he takes while he is there, that will be another story.

I am sorry, but sounds like she finally has to make a choice.

Russian Wife

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by RW on Jul 26, 2002

You are quite correct about the strange behavior. The whole situation stinks. I met mama and daughter when I was in Russia. Mama came here to Atlanta on a student visa to be with a Frenchman. Now he's moved to Costa Rica and she quickly married a US citizen. She did find a rather nice average man and they seem happy. I'm glad for that, but I don't like how she played the government.

Even though her daughter didn't like them man, her mother wanted her to marry this "rich man" in California. They could take care of mama, because life with the Frenchman wasn't working as she thought. He wasn't a US citizen and that created problems.

But then mama married the American and is much happier. I wish them well.

I don't think that mama nor daughter are aware of restrictions of returning to the US if she leaves. That may really be what the man wants. That is, to leave the US and not come back.

It's not looking good from the replies I read so far.

Chris

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

fr

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

Folks, this story sounds really flaky....are you going to swallow this story - hook, line and sinker ?

... in response to Question about leaving the US, posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

If she leaves the U.S. before her green card interview, she cannot reenter unless she obtains advance parole from the INS which will allow reentry.  Without advance parole, an I-485 applicant is deemed to have abandoned the green card application when she leaves the U.S.  She should obtain the advance parole application form from the INS website and file for advance parole at the local INS office. The time to process this application appears to vary signficiantly from office to office, so consult the local procedures. Since 9/11, advance paroles have been limited to sixty days absent exceptional circumstances.  In other words, you must return to the U.S. within 60 days or your green card application is deemed abandoned. I would strongly advise your wife's friend to take control of the immigration process from her husband if her long term plans are to stay in America.  She may want to claim abuse and abandonment because if her husband's financial situation and, more importantly, his attitude does not change, he may not meet the economic requirements to sponsor the green card application.  If she needs help, there is plenty of free advice on this board

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Charles on Jul 26, 2002

Would you want your wife to claim abuse if you or she decided to divorce?   To advise someone to lie IMHO is very irresponsible.  
 Would you want someone advising your wife to lie about you if your marriage does not work out?

... in response to Charles....what about your wife?, posted by donb2222 on Jul 28, 2002

I never said she should lie.  I said she may want to claim abuse based on her husband's total abandonment.  The man is not supporting her and isn't trying to get a job and is further requesting that she go with him to Italy without a green card and without advanced parole.  Based on the original post, there is no evidence she is a green card shark as you suggest, but there may be another side to the story that we don't know about.  In any event, if she is interested in staying in the U.S., she ought to get some independent legal advice.

... in response to Re: Charles....what about your wife?, posted by Charles on Jul 28, 2002

Not looking for a job is not abuse, and getting your wife a visa to go to Italy is not abuse.
Advance parole was not mentioned, maybe she does have advance parole.
It sounds to me like he wants to run off to Italy to avoid his fiancial responsibilities, and he DID get a visa for his wife to go with him.  Also, it sounds like the wife knows about his plan to stay in Italy, and since she came here to be with her mother, she does not want to go with him.
Anyway, nothing in the original post sounded abusive to me.

... in response to Charles....what about your wife?, posted by donb2222 on Jul 28, 2002

it sounds like the RW might be a green card shark.
Why else would she marry a deadbeat after being in the US for ONLY two days?  Sounds to me like she just wanted to come to America to be close to her mother.

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Charles on Jul 26, 2002

What kind of advice is that, (claim abuse) where is the abuse in this case????? Maybe he mislead her on his financial situation, or he lost it all after she came here, (stock market) but I see no grounds of abuse. My question is if he is in such a financial mess, how could he qualify for a k1 visa for his fiancée? If he did mislead her on his financial situation, and he doesn’t seem to care, have her talk to an immigration lawyer.

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by mudd on Jul 26, 2002

If I read his post correctly, he apparently had a job at the time of the K1 application, and then lost his job.  Remember that the financial scrutiny for a K-1 is much less than for the green card.  In Moscow they no longer require the I-134 affidavit of support.  It's been a few years since my wife went through Warsaw, but the reports I have read from more recent board members indicate that they don't even ask for financial data for the K-1 in many cases.  I am not saying there is definitely abuse here, but there are some very strong indications that would suggest that the lady see a lawyer as you suggest.

... in response to Re: Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by mudd on Jul 26, 2002

Given that her husband doesn't have a job and doesn't plan on getting one, wants to go to Italy, it is doubtful that she will be able to obtain a green card unless she can prove abuse.  Yes, I am sure there are trumped up cases and as a lawyer I have seen my share of those, but from the original post it appears that the husband has abandoned his wife.  He is not supporting her and is leaving the country and apparently wanting her to go with him without advance parole.  There may be more to the story, no doubt, and you are correct that she should seek independent legal advice.

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Charles on Jul 26, 2002

I am also disturbed that you would advise someone to file an abuse (yes, I am aware that there is both physical and nonphyical (often called verbal) abuse) as I suspect that there are some trumped up charges files so that the foreign spouse can file for Adjustment of Status on their own. It's just not something we should encourage.  (I do not mean to discourage legitimate claims.)

In my opinion, a better recommendation would have been to seek legal advice to determine what she can and should do in her situation.  Many areas have sources of low or no cost legal services available.

... in response to Re: Question about leaving the US, posted by Charles on Jul 26, 2002

I find it distressing for you to counsel: "She may want to claim abuse and abandonment because if her husband's financial situation and, more importantly, his attitude does not change, he may not meet the economic requirements to sponsor the green card application."
A fraud is a fraud is a fraud!

... in response to disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Del on Jul 26, 2002

Hardly disgusting in my view, since, if the story is true, she had no involvement in the "fraud."  There may be more, to be sure, but for a RW to have to return to her country after marrying a foreigner is not a pleasant experience; it is most embarassing for them.  If ChrisB's account is accurate, I see no harm in this woman attempting to try to stay in America.  There is an additional responsibility that goes with this process since few of these women are immediately capable of supporting themselves in the U.S.  If the story is accurate, this man has been totally irresponsible.  Why should the woman be further punished by having to leave when there may be an argument to keep her here.

... in response to Re: disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Charles on Jul 28, 2002

Charles,
Please don't get me wrong because I am no saint, but you think it would be OK for this woman to out and out lie about being abused?  That is a serious charge and a serious lie.  I don't know if it would be on the guys record or not either.  I know the guy is painted bad in this story, and he deserves little compassion, but a false accusation like that is just wrong.  Stretch the truth.  Embelish the truth.  But to make up your own truth for convenience, is wrong.
KenC

... in response to so the end jusifies the means?, posted by KenC on Jul 28, 2002

Ken, that's not what I am suggesting at all.  What I said was that it appeared that this man had totally neglected his wife, is deliberately not trying to get a job and perhaps is trying to get rid of her by taking her to Italy without getting her the required advance parole so she can't reenter.  She may be able to claim abuse based on these facts and obtain a green card, but she should seek a lawyer for that as others have suggested.  I have practiced law for over 20 years, and I have never been accused of suborning perjury, a frivilous lawsuit or anything of the kind.  If my comments suggested that, then I apologize.  I was simply trying to find some angle where by this woman could stay in America with her mother.

... in response to disgusting, simply disgusting!!!!, posted by Del on Jul 26, 2002

While I don't agree to give advise for what he suggusted, I don't feel it is disgusting.

If you understood the real situation, you might agree with me. I understand better about the situation and I think the girl should have been denied her fiance visa. In fact the interviewer told her they would deny it only if the US citizen wasn't standing next to her. They saw through the disguise, but having the American standing there, they would have had trouble defending the denial.

Charles has a point. He promised to love and care for her, but has put himself into extreme debt. This was something he walked right into. He bought a house on a $5,000 mortgage and had a $6,000/month income.

No joke here. I don't know how he pulled this off, but I am told it was by using 3 or more banks doing financing at the same time. I just wonder what will happen when all the banks try to claim title at the county office at the same time.

The girl, followed her mother here, and didn't realy like the man. Mama said all she needs to do is wait for the 2 years and she's free.

I'm not out to help nor hinder anyone. Shoot, they both deserve each other. ;-)

... in response to A bit harsh..., posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

LP contends that for most of these ladies, getting here is first priority. There is no doubt that no one knows the real percentages of women who view things like this young lady.

It is an interesting form of prostitution is it not? It really is no different than typical prostitution as far as I am concerned.

... in response to LP contends...., posted by thesearch on Jul 26, 2002

I must have missed LP being canonized... shucks!

Will all of your posts now read: "According to St. LP..." ???

Why should his opinion be more respected than, say, Jack's -- who certainly knows a LOT more FSU women...

But...worship him it makes you happy...

As for your statement: "It really is no different than typical prostitution as far as I am concerned..." I'm shocked. That is rather small-minded at best.

Let's apply your thinking to American Women...

What about the woman who marries the doctor hoping for a better life? Is that Prostitution?

How about a woman who chooses a man who has a degree over a local mechanic, because the man with a degree has a better future? Shall we scream Prostitute?

What about the single mother who marries a man so her son has a father-figure in his life? Is she a prostitute?

What about the woman who has sex with a man, finds out she's pregnant, and then marries him, even though she really doesn't love him, but so her child won't be a "bastard". Is she a prostitute?

The woman attracted to the man in the corvette?

The woman who's head is turned by the man in the nice suit?

All of these examples show someone attracted to wealth, prosperity, or an image of a "better life."

Are these women all prostitutes in your book?

So... I guess that the men who chase after women with big breasts are OK in your book, but the woman who chases the man with a big wallet is not?

Nice that you can sit here in America and judge women half way around the world that you have never met...

Nice that we can know their motives without having to live their lives...

Prostitutes all!

Let us ready the tar and feathers, and Scarlet letters!

... in response to Re: LP contends...., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 26, 2002

Being attracted to Mr. Rich Gringo and the possibility of a better life makes her human, not a prostitute, but marrying the first person to come along, screwing him for two years solely for the green card, then, then taking off the day it arrives is something else entirely. I believe that is rare but it has happened. Very likely far more men scream scammer when their own relationship skills suck, than are actually scammed.

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: Re: LP contends...., posted by Jeff S on Jul 27, 2002

A woman who married a guy, slept with him until she got a green card, and then took off ast the first chance she got...

Yes... OK... you can use the word Prostitute there.

But Greg's original post said:

"for most of these ladies, getting here is first priority..."

First off, I rather doubt that. This is American hyperbole. These women aren't as interested in America as some men on here seem to think. Victoria would MUCH rather have me move to Ukraine... but that's not a possibility...

Secondly, even if that WERE true, that ALONE does not make them a prostitute.

In your scenario, they bolt at the first chance. I think that is an exceedinlgly rare scenario. I would be willing to bet that we are talking about less that ten percent of all foreign brides who come here.

According to Greg's post, you would think it would be 51% (or how else do you define "most?" )

If the woman accepts a man who is "less" than she can get in Russia, but marries him for the better life of security and prosperity, and makes an honest attempt to make the marriage work... that is NO different than an AW who chooses the banker instead of the mechanic for the same reasons.

And what I really object to is the idea that because a woman marries an older, more established man, she is somehow shallow (or worse.) (And, I will state again for the record that Victoria is not a lot younger than I am. We will not raise any eyebrows when people see us together... so I am not objecting because of personal bias. But it still gripes me...)

Is the woman who married the guy who has six-pack abs and looks like Brad Pitt less shallow somehow?

But think about that... two couples walking into a restaurant:

One is in his late forties, gray hair, dresses nicely, but not extravagant... on his arm is a twenty-eight year old hottie. But he is deferential to her. treats her like a gentlemen... holds her chair for her... everything...

Next couple walks in: Guy is a model type. Great looks, great body that he shows off by wearing a tight shirt. He walks in, and flirts with the waitress while his date follows behind. She's also a twenty-something hottie.

In both cases, the women chose their date (perhaps mate) based on what was important to them.

The first lady will have to bear insults and stares: "Look at that. She is a whore. She is just with him for his money!"

In the second case, people will say: "Wow. She's got a good catch there, huh? Look at him!"

in other words: Choosing a mate based on looks is completely accepted and expected in our society. Choosing based on other qualities is not.

I think THAT is shallow.

... in response to Re: LP contends...., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 26, 2002

...something you don't. Because I did the research in a way you didn't. Because I didn't marry someone I met on one trip in a few weeks. Because these girls tell Jack only what they want. Because most lie through their teeth until they know their outta the game, just like our girl did.

Moron.

Btw, I loved your post below. You really are pretty screwed up ain't cha?

Lol, hows the petition coming? Heard anything yet?

... in response to LP contends...., posted by thesearch on Jul 26, 2002

..it was do anything to get here.  Now I do condemn her method of getting here, but, if you look beyond that fact, she treats her new husband nicely. I hope they stay happy together.

As for the daughter, I just hope she doesn't get over her head. She started out on the wrong foot by marrying a man, over 20 years her senior, whom she didn't like to start with. She said he was "rather weird." (her words)

The day's almost over for me and I'm off for a week in Florida. Hope the waters are calm for the boat trip fishing. And thank God my parents live there and will baby sit. :-)

Chris

... in response to A bit harsh..., posted by ChrisB on Jul 26, 2002

He bought a house that has a $5000 morgage and makes $72000 a year?

Hmmmm... I make quite a bit more than that, and couldn't qualify for that mortgage!

He shouldn't leave.

He should start doing infomercials about how to get financing! Hey, if he offered a video course, I'd buy it (3 easy payments of $59.95 a month plus S+H)

(I think someone isn't telling the truth somewhere, Chris. Somewhere along the way, you are being lied to...)

... in response to Amazing... and he's leaving?, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 26, 2002

That's what I was thinking, but it's all info from the mom and from Lana, who is a good friend of my wife's. Lana lives 2 miles away from this girl, Anna, in Santa Clara.

I couldn't beleive it, and still have a had time understanding how this guy pulled it off. It seems he borrowed a chunk of cash from his brother. Once he closed, his bother wanted his cash back. So the guy ran up all his credit cards.

The house cost about $580K. @ 7% that'd be $3,858 plus taxes and insurance. I don't see how any bank would lend such a large ammount to him.

Anna said Seth (husband) brought home about $6,000 every month. Seth told Paul (Lana's husband)about the deal with three banks. No details, just that he used three banks at the same time so they wouldn't see the credit checks??

Paul repeated this story to me when they visited us two weeks ago.

I wouldn't put a lot of faith in any of it, had I not heard this from Paul himself.

This is sounding like a TV soap.

Chris