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She called when she got home, I wrote the post as she was driving. Many times over the last 3 + years I have had so many people ask me "why a russian chick?". I've heard all the banter about AW stink, and so forth, never really agreeing. I don't think AW stink, not at all. I think they need a different type of guy than me. I think I have finally realized just what it is, that I don't care for, in an American woman. It's along the lines that Mark, KenC, and Yoe spoke. Commitment, devotion, and affection. I have never been with a more affectionate women than a russian or ukrainian woman. The feeling you get is astounding and quite addictive. Last night, I shared with my girlfriend that things didn't "feel right" to me, something was missing. She said "are you dumping me?" "If you are, get it over with so I can get some sleep."  Hmmmmm. I tried to reason with her that all was not well. She kept reiterating that "everything is fine, don't worry". I said I wasn't worrying just felt that she was distant and that I was chasing her all the time. Next comes the typical AW response "Look, I'm not going to get into it with you, if you want to dump me then dump me. I have stress at work, responsibilities at home with my daughter and I MUST have smooth and easy in my dating life". I agreed wholeheartedly. She never saw MY needs or MY feelings as anything at all to worry about. Everything was fine for HER. It didn't matter how I felt. She had a great guy doting on her, spending a ton of money on her, planning a trip to France for late AUgust for her and her daughter, what could not be perfect? I on the other hand, have a chick that I see once or twice a week if I'm lucky, hangs out with her ex-husband and his family all the time (of course the ex-husband has a new girlfriend who is there also but it still freaks me out), is NEVER affectionate, and always busy.  Hmmmmm, she looks darn good and it's easy to fall prey to the fact that she is HERE. Right here, right now.

Now I'm back in the hunt and not sure which direction to go. I've been to the FSU 5 times. I've gone on my own all but one trip that I took with Jack. I met many wonderful women all who wanted to get married but none that I chose. Am I a jerk? I guess. I just don't want to do the email/scam/BS search anymore. Any suggestions?

Still dating an AW,
Mark H.

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Get yourself a fat chick, they're low maintenance.  Or how about a homely looking lady, she will give you the devotion, affection, and commitment that you desire.

... in response to Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by Ramblin on Jul 12, 2002

My suggestion to MarkH is...don't be such a big baby!  Maybe you and she are not right for each other.  And maybe you and she have different expectations as to how quickly your relationship should progress.  So what?  Move on.  Find an AW who is as needy as you or find an RW who is as needy as you.  Whatever.  But what does this ONE experience with ONE woman (who does not give you the proper appreciation and affection you need in exchange for the $100 you spent on dinner) have to with the difference between AW and RW?  You say you've CHASED AW and you said you've CHASED RW.  Maybe you are just a CHASER.  Maybe that's what you "dig."  But I think when someone really wants to be caught, they don't have to be CHASED.  Maybe "Rhonda" was just turned off by your neediness and starvation for appreciation, affection, and attention.

I've got a flipside experience with an AW.  I was recently casually dating a very nice and very pretty woman here and we had some good times, and I guess she was "appreciative" (whatever that means).  And, like your Rhonda girl, I thought seeing each other "once or twice a week" was perfect (busy and stressful schedules...and occasional dates with other girls).  But she called me way too often and she was way too affectionate and she was way too clingy and she wanted us to be together way more often than I wanted.  She also complained that she felt she was constantly CHASING me.  So, after a while, I told her "I've gotta go" and stopped calling her.  Rhonda was quick to ask if you were breaking up with her.  Maybe Rhonda was getting bored with you and just wanted you to break things off with her?  

We've all got our own reasons for seeking a RW woman and I have met enough RW women to have learned some things.  And while I don't profess to know the "mysterious Russian soul," I DO know that there are very FEW, if any, common character and personality traits that ALL RWs share with each other (just as there are very few traits that ALL AWs share with each other).  I also know that men here have expressed different attitudes and experiences with AWs and RWs.  I have seen some men here say they met RW who were SO appreciative for the simplest things, and I have seen some men here say they met an RW who expected everything and that their RW wouldn't know how to say thank you in any language (as mark loves to say...read the archives).  I've also personally had different experiences in this area.  The last time I went to Moscow, I took a "genuine Texas Cowboy Hat" to one of my Moscow girls.  And she smiled and kissed me and said thanks.  I also paid for transportation to bring in another girl and I had a Mercedes pick her up at the train station and take her to a "too many dollars per night Moscow hotel" and I took her out for dinner at nice places and took her shopping and bought her an expensive pair of boots at a Moscow mall.  And she smiled and kissed me and said thanks...and then she asked me to buy her a purse and a new jacket and two new jackets for her two young nephews back home.  I said "nyet, let's just go for a walk now."  (I'll be seeing my "cowboy hat girl" real soon...and I'll probably never see my "take me shopping" girl again).  But, the point is...I didn't expect either girl to kiss my a@@ for what I chose to do for her.  That's just a loser attitude.  You say "I spent $100 bucks tonight to buy steaks, shrimp, roses, and condiments for this dinner. I had one kiss tonight. One. I think that is pretty lame."  Sounds like you think she's not appreciative enough because she doesn't kiss your a@@ after you do something nice or spend a buck on her for dinner.  Now, THAT'S pretty lame.  I hear many AW groan "where are all the good guys?" and they use guys like YOU as an example of "all the losers out there."  Good women (whether they are AW or RW) want a man who is truly good...not just a man with a truly good wine collection.  And good men want a truly good woman...not just a "darn good looking" woman who is good partly because she is "here" and partly because she will kiss his a@@ for every simple gesture he makes.  You say the difference between AW and RW "is that the FSu woman is appreciative."  I say that is pretty simple minded.

... in response to Re: Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by johnnydudeman on Jul 13, 2002

you mean she really and truly appreciated a "genuine Texas Cowboy Hat"!  No BS ????
Either she's a real keeper or she's never been to Calgary!!

... in response to WOW !!!!!!!!!, posted by Del on Jul 15, 2002

Yeah, I'm thinking she may be a real keeper.  And I'm glad you didn't take the "genuine Texas Cowboy Hat" comment so seriously.  (It was meant as kind of tongue in cheek, which is why I put it in quotes.)  She actually wanted a "real Cowboy hat" after seeing Madonna wear one in one of her videos.

... in response to Re: Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by johnnydudeman on Jul 13, 2002

I think you're reading into the situation, and finding as much bad that you can, and then flying off on a tangent.

Look, none of us really knows what happened with Mark and this girl.

In one post, he's telling us he met someone really great, and she's making him forget about travelling over-seas... and then he says that he is having second thoughts... he briefly outlined some of the reasons... but it is really more of a "feeling" that it wasn't right.

To jump from that and call him a "big baby", "a CHASER", and lump him in with "all the losers out there" is an amazing leap in logic... Even for you.

I will agree that no one character trait is shared by any nationality of women.

But, Mark can certainly make an assessment of the type of women he has dated in America, and compare it to the type of woman he dated in Ukraine (or Russia.)

And, really, anything he says there is valid... because it is his experience. If he had dated twenty blondes and twenty brunettes, and then said: "You know what? From all of the women I have dated... blondes really do have more fun..." How can you possibly argue with that?

He is only stating his opinion based on the women he has dated. You can be argumentative and say: "Well, I think Brunettes have more fun... so there!" But what's the point? He was only commenting on his own life experience.

Your buying some girl a cowboy hat hardly invalidates that.

He specifically said that he was comparing the women he had dated... not making a blanket statement of all American Women, or Russian Women.

Sheesh! You need to learn to read for content.

Although any statement that starts with the words: "All American Women are..." is invariably false... there still are cultural differences that exist.

If you are too stupid, or stubborn, to admit that, then you are too stupid or too stubborn to waste any time with...

What you want a woman to do with your a@@ is your business. But if you honestly think that women in Russia are not culturally different from women in America... then do us all a favor and stay home...  and leave the search overseas to those men who have grasped the obvious: Women in a different country are different.

Huff, Puff, and BLOW all you want... nothing you say will change that simple incontrovertible fact.

... in response to So... do you just tee-off on anyone name..., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 13, 2002

I didn't call him a "big baby" just because he says he is back in "the hunt" after a he got a bad feeling caused by being shunned by an American woman.  I called him a big baby for saying "I spent $100 bucks tonight to buy steaks, shrimp, roses, and condiments for this dinner. I had one kiss tonight. One. I think that is pretty lame" and for being upset because a woman has (in his own words) "taken my devotion and admiration for granted" because he's spent a few bucks on her for dinner and trips.  Now, those are not grown man statements...those are immature "big baby" statements.  After his complaints of not being appreciated and being taken for granted, he says he will probably continue to date her.  Now, grown men accept certain realities and move on...big babys just complain and stay in the same situation.

I also did not call him a chaser, HE CALLED HIMSELF A CHASER, over and over again.  HE said (in his own words) "I FEEL LIKE I AM CONSTANTLY CHASING HER."  And HE said "that's right, chasing."  And he said "I sit and wonder why I was ever chasing FSU women."  And he said "I'm tired of chasing this chick and I'm done."  I don't think its a jump in logic to call someone a chaser when THEY say they are a chaser.

You say MarkH was not making a "blanket statement."  But,  again mark, you are wrong.  He DID make a blanket statement.  He said he has (in his own words) "pondered the differences of AW and RW" and "the difference is that the FSu woman is appreciative."  THAT is a BLANKET STATEMENT.  And its stupid.  You say buying a girl a hat "hardly invalidates that."  Huh?  Well, I DO think that showing the contrast of my experience between a Russian girl being happy with a small and personal gift from home, and another Russian girl being a less happy but still wanting more, more, more, SHOWS that NOT ALL FSU are always so appreciative (whatever that means).  That's my experience and that's the experience of so many others on this board.  Read the archives; its full of men telling how their sweet FSU girl was happy with something small they brought them, and of others who say their FSU girls could not be pleased with anything.  "Appreciativeness" is NOT, as MarkH says, the difference between FSU women and others.

You wrote of "cultural differences."  I did not even make a statement about cultural diffences in my post, YOU did.  That's a simple "straw man" argument drawn upon when there is nothing really on the merits to argue about and when someone just wants to argue or when someone is not smart enough to make a real argument.  What I said was that there are few, if any, common CHARACTER and PERSONALITY traits which set FSU women apart.  Yes, there are cultural differences, which is not what I was even talking about.  Obviously there is a difference between American and FSU culture, but that does not mean that we are not similar on the INSIDE.  Russians and Americans are people and have similar needs and desires and feelings as all other people.  That's what I mean by character and personality traits.  And there IS a difference between cultural traits, and character & personality traits.  Culture goes mostly to HOW AND WHERE YOU LIVE (on the oustide) and character & personality goes more to WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE (in the inside).  One thing you will learn eventually is that even FSU women, who you agree are shaped outwardly by their culture, may change some things about themselves when they come to America and become somewhat more "Americanized" (cultural changes), but that does not change WHO or WHAT they are on the inside (character and personality traits).  I mean, let's take you, for an example of cultural vs. character similarities and differences between Russian and American people.  You want a wife and love and to be happy...and Vladimir in Russia wants a wife and love and to be happy.  Okay?  Similar character traits, right?  But you drink beer and work as a salesman and have had multiple fiancees and are hopelessly optimistic that the next one will be "the one" and you live in an apartment...but Vladimir drinks piva and works at the formerly state run factory and is optimistically looking for a nice girl (but the're all looking for American men) and he lives in a "flat."  So how are you two so different inside...really.

Yeah, as you say, anyone can state an opinion...even that blondes or brunettes or redheads have more fun.  Whatever.  And I wouldn't even argue with that.  I would just say that's a stupid general statement.  And no, I would not take issue with someone just because they are named mark and they make a stupid statement.  But I WOULD call someone to account when they make stupid statements on a public board and expect to get one BIG GROUP HUG.

... in response to Yeah I have a suggestion : ), posted by Ramblin on Jul 12, 2002

never make a pretty woman your wife
if you want my personal point of view
get an ugly girl to marry you
joe :)

... in response to if you want to be happy for the rest of ..., posted by yoe on Jul 12, 2002

Joe did you follow your own advice? :)

... in response to Re: if you want to be happy for the rest..., posted by greg2 on Jul 12, 2002

n.t

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hey...you didn't meet this cheeky woman at CHAMMPS at Heubner Oaks, did you?

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by johnnydudeman on Jul 12, 2002

fda

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hey Mark,

I did not think that my prediction would come to fruition so quickly.

Gotcha on this one MarkInTx :)

Mark, I have watched every trip and the approach you taken. I do not have time tonight to give you my take on advice but will perhaps tomorrow. I will give you a clue, it will be close to the same advice I gave you before when you wrote about one of your upcoming trips. From my observation post,  I will warn you that I am very opinionated about how you should do this.  

But for now about this AW. There are some good posts below and perhaps mine will not shed any further light just some different words dancing around the same ending.

Some time ago I got blasted for my Zero Tolerance theory that I still feel is a valid approach to women in the courting stage or searching stage..

First of all, there are many selfish people in this world - men and women alike. Believe me, women have the same problems that we do in finding a good mate. Besides being selfish there are many women who view the male female relationship issue as a slave and slave holder concept molded by the control factor.

These women view men as slaves to their needs not uncommonly using tactics of manipulation and control to achieve their end desired result.  These women however, can not really hide who they are or what they want. Men just choose to ignore all of the indicators.

A woman who is really interested in you lets you know - there is no question about it. She will work darn hard to please you. You can not miss it plain and simple. If you ever find yourself questioning her feelings and there is a consistent pattern to it - she is not for you for whatever reason. Now, I will admit that there are women who do not show their interest as overtly and in these cases you have to be a better observer - but even these ladies will show it.

This lady you are dating seems like a selfish user plain and simple. In the end run you would be happier with a very average looking nice AW than this person. She is not going to change. She is not for you. Of course you knew that.

You are a good man and you deserve a good woman. It sounds like you are not willing to settle for anything less. Good for you.

Hey Mark, it is good to have you back - really

... in response to Re: About the next night and the next an..., posted by thesearch on Jul 11, 2002

Thanks Greg, nice words and they are not falling on deaf ears. It's good to be back I guess. Not sure what approach or avenue I will take this time. Taking it all in and will decide very soon.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: About the next night and the next an..., posted by thesearch on Jul 11, 2002


When are you "coming back" Greg...?

Aren't you still with an AW...???

... in response to Speaking of which..., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 12, 2002

Mark,

I will address that later in a new thread in a few days

... in response to Re: Speaking of which..., posted by thesearch on Jul 16, 2002


Hope it's good news :-)

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

...now David SD? This is a "jerk".
If you have lost touch with all previous relations here and abroad (listen to me) ...it IS a roll of the dice and you take your chance. Putting my chips on the best bet came easiest with experience. Something...no one can teach :(
Karl

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

You are probably more educated on the FSU scene than anybody here! :) Asking is would be like asking the pizza delivery boy hot to make great pizza pie.
I personally feel that you just were not ready. That is my opinion of course. So my great advice is to go with what you know. Now that you are done with your education you can empty that part of your brain and think more of that lovely woman who is waiting in Eastern Europe right now waiting for your email. Good luck
Joe

... in response to Mark I have some bad news............, posted by yoe on Jul 11, 2002

I say this because I rarely agree with the rantings of Yoe Joe but I have to agree with the point that I believe you were not ready... LOL I guess even a broken clock is right a couple of times during the day...This is only opinion so take it for what it is worth... I have followed your story longer than most people on here including yoe... only exception perhaps ken c. I have at times been exasperated by some of your posts and at other times heartened by some of your posts. I think you are sincere in wanting to find a mate but I think the reason you were not successful was because you were not ready.... Here is a clue Mark... an opinion I will probaly get alot of silly heat from others about... THERE IS NO PERFECT GIRL OUT THERE FOR YOU!!!. Repeat it 100 times... Live it, learn it, love it!! But do not let your heart be troubled... there are many very good women out there that if you let them (by changing some of your thought patterns)will make you an excellent wife  Mark-- no matter who you find there will always be something that you will have to learn to live with... Did you ever watch Seinfeld???  I remember one episode where Jerry says to George... What are we?? We are acting like children. Every girl we find something we do not like... sometimes it was something as trivial as how she ate her vegetables... one pea at a time LOL that drove Jerry crazy.  Now the thing is Mark... I was single for a long time... and some of that time I was quite happy being single... there is always good points and bad points but then I reached a time in my life where I wanted to be married. When this happens you have to be sure about it... because being married is fantastic but it is different... you will have to give up some things you have in the single life... some selfish things and the rewards are great but still you have to give these things up... you have to be understanding... you have to go with the flow... no pun intended lol... you have to be 100% per cent committed to making it work... okay I have to go... and this letter is long... I remember all your adventures.. and I hope I have not said anything that got your dander up... I have only said some things that I hoped would help... I believe in being a straight shooter... and the other caveat- I only know you from your posts so take it all with a grain of salt-- you know yourself the best- so to your ownself be true as the bard said... all the best,
Keith

... in response to Did hell just freeze over???? LOL-- very..., posted by keithandkatya on Jul 12, 2002

Keith,
Thanks for the input and my dander is not up! I keep it controlled most of the time these days. If I remember correctly, George and Jerry decided to get married....we all know what happened next!

Mark H.

... in response to Did hell just freeze over???? LOL-- very..., posted by keithandkatya on Jul 12, 2002


It takes me longer to warm up than that post :-)

But I thought what it lacked in length it made up for in intelligence :-)

... in response to Mark I have some bad news............, posted by yoe on Jul 11, 2002

Joe,
You're right. I am ready now and perhaps that is why I'm not going to take this AW's crap. I'm regrouping and deciding how, when, where, and who with for my next trip. I'm thinking of going as early as August 24th. We'll see. I have 9.5 days off August 24, I gotta go somewhere. Thank god I didn't buy the tickets to France that I had reserved. No way am I taking this chick to france.

I don't think I was asking for specifics, just some ideas. I'm kind of stuck in the idea department. Not sure whether to go Russia or Ukraine. It's been a while since I"ve been involved with the FSU thing, most of my old "free" sites don't work anymore. Just looking for those kinds of tips on sites, etc....

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Mark I have some bad news.............., posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

If you can read or translate Russian easily I have some free Russian only websites you could try.

... in response to How's your Russian?, posted by Zink on Jul 11, 2002

Zink, would love to try them. Post them or email me:

stockmanmark22@nospam.com

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hummmmmmm   sounds like the reason I did not date for a while.   Me lots of women looking at me as a way to retire, the others I felt more like a past time.   I am great alone. I cook better than most women I know, don't mind being alone, have many interest, travel, sailing, reading, etc.  But when I get involved I make sure the other person knows that they are important.   I would like to feel the same in return.  Not that I am a personal retirement account, or just someone that is good to go to parties and have everyone impressed by status.   I am not sure Russian girls are the way to go because of the difficulty in getting to know someone here and taking the year or more to really trust them and take the risk.  So it is hard under the current immogration climate for me to consider a long term relationship or marriage with a few months of e-mail, and a few meetings, not to mention the issues of culture etc.  I also do not know if having someone you like very much come here with the expectation and pressure of "will he like me enough to keep me" That sort of seems like K mart shopping and deciding you got a second and returning it.   Just seems like a way to hurt peoples feelings over and over until you find the right one.   I would feel terrible, and did, when I met just one lady in St. Pete, and spent time with her and came home.   I suspect I felt badly because her expectations must have been very high, and mine were more of a real interest to see if such a thing could work.  
   I guess I write this not to lecture but to say, I admire those who found a good mate and are happy.   I am more impressed with the faith they had in each other to take the leap of faith with someone they could never really get to know until they married them.  Perhaps I have commitment issues?  I don't think so.

Robert D.

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by Robert D on Jul 11, 2002

Robert,
Doesn't sound like you have commitment issues, just a good head on your shoulders. I agree with all of your points and I do think of those things. I wonder if we can truly know these FSU women well enough in letters and a few meetings to trust them in marriage. It is a good question, one that deserves alot of contemplation. I think you will know, like MarkinTX does, when you find the right one. I've spent wonderful vacations with beautiful FSu women and am still not engaged or married. They just weren't the ones, it's that simple. I'll keep looking though! Good luck to you and perhaps just take a chance, in 100 years none of it will matter.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

I think I will not again try a Russian woman.  I  liked very much the one I met and she was very nice.  Just to difficult to get to know them so far away and I am sure I hurt her feelings a bit.  
Too much catholic guilt I guess.
But I admire those who try and have success and the faith to take the big step into marriage with someone they do not know that well.   Perhaps I am just to cautious.

Robert D.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: About last night......, posted by Robert D on Jul 12, 2002


... then what WILL you do?

You know... if I were a devout catholic, I would seriously look SOB...

... in response to So, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 12, 2002

sorry I am not clued in to the internet lingo.   What is SOB.   The catholic guilt thing is a left over as I do not practice that or anything else.    But through 12 years of catholic school before college, well it sort of finds its way into parts of my being when it comes to attempting to be fare to others. I think it is funny some times.
that was all

Robert D.

... in response to Re: So, posted by Robert D on Jul 12, 2002

It's not an internet thing, actually.

FSU = Former Soviet Union

SOB = South of the Border

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Mark,

When you are single, at least you have hope for something better in the future.  When you are with a women like your ex-girlfriend, there is really no hope.  You know you are screwed and you better get used to it.

Wow...you have been to the FSU 5 times!!!

I certainly can see why.  I had one of the best times of my life over there.

I am not recruiting for the Latin board, but if you have been to the FSU so much, you might try going south for your next trip.  It will give you a little contrast, and a few good stories at the least.

If I was single again, I would visit the FSU, and Latin American both.  FSU for the blonde haired, blue eyed beauties, and Colombia for the dark haired, brown eyed wonders.

Good luck,
Wayne

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by Wayne1 on Jul 11, 2002


Wayne,

One thing about Mark H is that he speaks fluent Spanish!

I would say that for someone like Mark H... educated, intelligent, multi-lingual -- he should find a lady ANYWHERE but Abilene...

... in response to And, one thing about Mark H, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 11, 2002

Now Mark, you know I'm from San Antonio and I dated latina's many many many times. I love latinas but I am more attracted to white women. It's just my preference. I wish I was attracted to latina's, I'd love to go to Peru or Venezuela! True, it is a waste that I speak such good spanish. :(

Mark H.

... in response to And, one thing about Mark H, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 11, 2002

I'll be the first to admit that I know little about the FSU ladies, but from what I've read, it sounds like there's more women there into doing things like going to the opera, plays, etc. than in Latin America.  I like the Latin ladies for their fun-loving ways, but if I were a champaigne and caviar type guy instead of the beer and pretzel type that I am, I think the FSU might be better hunting grounds.

... in response to I think it depends on what you want, posted by Patrick on Jul 11, 2002

I agree that you have hit the major difference I have seen.

Although, I never went to Colombia... I did go to Brazil, and I have dated Mexican women.

But there is a different style to the women...

The FSU women are more "classically" educated, and do enjoy things like opera, ballet, and museums.

That doesn't mean that they are champaign and caviar though...

I drink beer. Wine gives me a headache. Ukraine had beer flowling more freely than Vodka when I was there.

I don't think you need to be a champaigne kinda guy to head to the FSU.

But you are right that the women are more likely to have high education degrees, and will have probably been to more ballets than you have :-)

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hey Mark,
Sorry to hear what happened. Not a stunning revelation though. I don't really have any advice for you. Hell you've been around the block as much or more than I have. The e-mail relationships do start to wear on a guy after a few years. The best letters I got are from RWs. That's why I've spent so much time there in the last 2 years. Lots of pretty faces and some heart as well.

But what I wanted to tell you is what my current RW girlfriend told me. She was grilling me about why I'm 28 and never been married. So I told her what had happened with my local girls. Nothing devastating, just enough small attitude problems that I knew they weren't forever. I don't have anything against North American girls, but some of them seem to have something against me. Anyhow, when she heard what I said she told me,"Canadian girls are crazy. They don't know what a good man is." And then she explained to me how a woman should treat a man. And as far as I can tell she honestly believes what she said. The Rw's I know aren't perfect, but they are willing to put some effort into a relationship. They're strong, tough women who want a man to take care of them and will take care of the man too. Who could ask for more?

It's easy to settle for the warm body that's with you right now instead of looking for more. But if you aren't happy with anything except that body... There's got to be a girl somewhere who's got more going for her than a pretty face. I guess I do have one little piece of advice for you. Don't settle unless you are happy. I know people who got married because they felt it was time, not because they were in love. It leads to messed up marriages, often with messed up children. Don't ruin your future wife's and/or children's lives by marrying someone unless you really want to be with that person!

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by Zink on Jul 11, 2002

Great wisdom from an obviously wise 28 year old! Good for you finding your girl.

I know all about FSU women, that is true. I guess the only advice I'm looking for is a good agency, one that I don't mind spending my money in. That is all, one with sincere girls. I think I may use KenC's recommended agency LTP.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002


Before you do that... you should read Squirecam's report in full.

And Bobby Orr.

Even Ken admits that LTP might not be what it once was...

I don't know one way or the other. I'm just saying that the two most recent reports have not been exactly stellar...

... in response to Re: Re: About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

You need to be aware that the average age of the women at LTP is about 19-20 years old...  I've been there and although Ken I am sure found a lovely wife there, that was a while ago and many guys who have been there (myself included) feel that Tver has been pretty fished out.

... in response to Mark-, posted by Oscar on Jul 11, 2002

Thanks for the info. I'll take it into consideration. They are pricey also. Do you really think a city could be "fished" out?

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Mark-, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

There are 2 factors that make this a reality, one, the economy is getting much better in Russia, two, there seems to be less interest from RW in the major areas such as Moscow.

If you choose to go to Russia, you may want to consider Siberia, Vladivostok, or some of the other cities further away from the major economic regions. Russia seems to be getting fished out. I've been noticing this for the last 2 years.

Ukraine is still good hunting but I would be looking in some of the smaller cities rather that Kiev, Kharkov, etc. Moldova, Uzbekistan, Kazahkstan, Azerbaijan, Kyrgizstan and Latvia seem to be very good hunting grounds. Russians in all of these former Soviet republics want to leave. Finding the right girl is tough but I think you may find a better more unpretentious wife in an area a little off the beaten track. If you're looking for a high society gal, then stick to Moscow, although you may find an RW with the "princess syndrome" there.

I have had similar experiences with AW such as what you descibed with your latest girlfriend. It's the "me me me" syndrome. You're not being a jerk to dump her since she knows she has treated you with disrespect and inconsideration. She probably figures she is pretty enough that you will put up with it. After all, good women in our age group are scarce these days so they don't have to compete. Tell her she has to compete with Russian and Ukrainian women who have a much better attitude. You shouldn't have to compete with an ex-husband nor should you have to pay for her perception of his transgressions against her.

Just remember this, "Eager beats pretty every time". Tell her that :)

-blm

... in response to Re: Mark-, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Well, Tver is not a huge place, only about 200,000 I believe, but KenC would know that better as his wife is from there.
I will say again that LTP is in my opinion a legitimate agency.  But the girls for the most part are very young (there's a University there) and many of the girls I met there had been in the agency for a long time, like 2 to 4 years!  And when they have been in that long, they tend to get burned out.  They do often "recycle" women on their web site saying they are "new" profiles, yet I know some of these girls and met many of them and they have been there for a LONG time! LOL!
There was also a constant problem of no-shows for appointments.  Many of the guys who were there when I was complained about this.  Many of the women just had a very casual attitude about the whole thing (maybe these were the ones who were burned or were burning out).  Read the recent posts of the guy who just got back from there, he had plenty of no-shows.  I never found this in Kiev, Odessa or certainly Dnepropetrovsk.

As I have said before, I personally like their concept, going to an office and meeting and interviewing women there for the first meeting, because you can meet 6 women a day, but I think it would be better in a larger city, where the same girls are not so burned out.

Again, just my opinion/experience.

... in response to Re: Re: Mark-, posted by Oscar on Jul 11, 2002

Oscar/MarkH,
LTP has been around a long time and some of the "fished out" sentiment may be true.  I don't think that the younger age is a problem for Mark.  (Mark is a lot younger than us old farts, Oscar) LOL.  BTW, I believe that Tver is somewhat larger than you said, closer to 500,000.  I did not have any problems with no shows when I was there, but it has been a while too.  Once there, in Tver, Mark could also get the lay of the land and use the interpreters to meet the locals at any club.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Mark-, posted by KenC on Jul 12, 2002

Yes, I did notice in his profile he is 38 (not like us old farts! LOL!) but a girl of 19 in my opinion is still just that, a girl.
He could try to meet some locals at clubs as you say and he could also try running an ad there I guess.. I just didn't like Tver that much, certainly didn't like all the no-shows.
I found my girl in Dnepro where I had a great time but I am sure there are some guys who have gone there who have had a lousy time too.. We all have our own experience and what seemed to work for each of us.. Some guys like the smaller towns some the larger, etc..

Oscar

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Mark-, posted by KenC on Jul 12, 2002

Actually,

I doubt that Tver is "fished out."

However, if LTP is not getting an influx of new ladies, then the ones who have been there awhile would probably get very jaded.

And then if the new ones come in, and meet and talk to the older ones who are jaded... you end up with an agency that is "burnt out" as opposed to a city that is "fished out" I think...

... in response to Fishy, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 12, 2002

I went to Tver in May and matched.  Didn't have much problem with no-shows (there were a few, but not anyone I had written to before-hand).  I'm not sure if I would say they were jaded but it didn't seem they were desperate to leave.  Of course, that's not really a bad thing when you think about it.
I think the women with really good photos get dated to death or get matched up quickly.  But several of the prettiest women I met had mediocre (and sometimes lousy) photos.
Want an example?  Look up Anna Savelyeva on the LTP site.  Certainly not someone you would be interested in, right?  In reality she is quite striking!  If anyone is interested in seeing a recent photo of her tell me and I will email it to you....
The girl I matched with had been in the program for quite a while and had not been active (noone asked to meet her).  Then she got a new set of photos taken and suddenly was one of the most popular girls there.  Right away most every guy suddenly wanted to meet her.  My interpreter told me this, by the way.
Of course, who wants to pick the unattractive girls just hoping they look better then their photos?  Nothing worthwhile is easy.
I suppose those of us that have gone and matched could share photos or opinions of girls that we thought were more impressive than their profile would suggest.  I don't know if this is workable - what does everyone else think?

John

... in response to My thoughts...., posted by oldbutspry on Jul 12, 2002

John,
Most of my "data" is obsolete because I was there too long ago.  It is kind of funny though, because two of the women I met were on the website for almost three years after my visit.  They were both good looking, with one being breath takingly beautiful.  They always seemed to pop up in LTP's web photos of group activities and such.  I thought it was interesting that they were available for such a long time and only recently been removed from the site.  I think LTP's practice of "renewing" the girls profile with new photos is a good practice and I don't understand the criticism that comes from some.
KenC

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by Zink on Jul 11, 2002

Zink,

Good post.

Most of my friends have settled for less then their dreams.  Most of them have unsatisfied lives with too much conflict.  They all have one thing in common.  They weren't willing to go the extra mile and do what it takes to find the right match.

Sometimes it takes for then 1 mile, it takes thousands of miles.

One of my friends married a Russian women with 2 kids.  3 and 17 years old.  And they are planning to have another child soon.  They are very, very happy.

I think most of these bad relationships are what they are because of appreciation.  AW are very, very spoiled, and they don't appreciate basic kindness and consideration.  It always has to be more.

There aren't that many good looking AW because of such poor diets, and the ones that are half way good looking get too much attention.  Too much attention spoils and attitude quick in my opinion.  If the roles were reversed and we all had 10 gorgeous AW chasing us at one time, I'm not sure if American men's attitude would be any different.

Wayne

... in response to Re: Re: About last night......, posted by Wayne1 on Jul 11, 2002

Wayne,
I think you have this nailed.  Beauty doesn't seem to spoil foreign women like it does American women.
KenC

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Start now by compiling a list of ladies to contact, shoot for 300, some will never show of course.

Be a dating machine and a tourist, as well.

That's the direction I would take.  Start saving up and getting ready for your April'03 trip to Ukraine.

... in response to Re: Do what Oatmeal did.... 30 day vacat..., posted by wsbill on Jul 11, 2002

Maybe you're not such a dipshiiiit after all. What trip bill? What are you talking about? I'm not waiting until APril 03 to go to Ukraine. I'll go next month.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Do what Oatmeal did.... 30 day vacat..., posted by wsbill on Jul 11, 2002

And although I am VERY happy for Oatmeal... considering that Mark H just landed his dream job after years of study and work... I doubt he wants to lose that to go to the FSU for 30 days...

I can't answer for him, of course... but somehow I doubt that he would be willing to do that...

... in response to Oatmeal lost his job over that!, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 11, 2002

You can answer for me, you know me. You are right, NO FREAKING WAY!

Mark H.

... in response to Oatmeal lost his job over that!, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 11, 2002

Of course, why did you think I said April'03.

A good year away.   Dream jobs come and go.  

Nothing stays the same - except for true love.

Better to get your priorities straight now and live happily ever after.  Than to settle for a AW. gulp.

... in response to Oatmeal lost his job over that!, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 11, 2002

I don't think that WS Bill is advocating that anybody should loose, or even risk, their job over this.  What he is trying to say, I think, is that when one goes over there, one should do it right and allocate as much time as possible for the trip.

... in response to Re: Oatmeal lost his job over that!, posted by Alfred on Jul 11, 2002


You would like to think so, wouldn't you...?

Look at his follow-up post though...

"Dream jobs come and go... get your priorities straight..."

Sure looks to me like he is saying go... whatever it takes...

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Mark,
It is ALL in the attitude. "are you dumping me?" "If you are, get it over with so I can get some sleep."  Does this mean that her sleep is more important than you?  I can understand a woman prioritising her child over you, but give me a break on the value of one night of good sleep.  The way I see it, you gave a single Mom a "dream date." And on a weekday too!  The very least she could have done is APPRECIATE the effort you gave.  Instead you are "put in your place" by her criticism of your choice in furniture and decorating.  She should have came away thinking: "Mark put forth a great effort to make the night special for me and my daughter.  How can I reciprocate?"  Like I said it is all in the attitude.  A good relationship is about GIVING not TAKING. My adivice is to hire an interior decorator, so you have a cozy home for your Russian honey.
KenC

... in response to attitudes, posted by KenC on Jul 11, 2002

Ken,
Good points. I thought I did a pretty good job with the decorating, very bachelor though. As for WsBill's comment about my new TV, what a joke. All my male bud's here in Abilene are ready, willing, and dying to watch some football this year at my house. We'll have a ball. For goodness sake, my parents have a 52" and love it. SO does my brother. Most people I know have large TV's, it's kind of cool.

Anyway, I didn't want to decorate my new house too well, I wanted whatever woman I get involved with to decorate it herself. I wanted her to be able to stake some sort of "claim" to the place and feel good about being there. I bought very nice furniture but not the furniture I wanted. I knew, just knew..that as soon as I find the right girl, she's going to want all new furniture. Why spend thousands now when some chick is going to personalize the place and change everything? I want her to change everything, I want her to make the house as she wishes...that would please me. As for hiring a decorator, not a bad idea!

Mark H.

... in response to Re: attitudes, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002


When I divorced (the last time) I left the 61" behind.

I have a 54" now... Been slummin' it :-)

But I did add the DVD surround sound.

I don't watch as much sports on it (Well... OK... hockey...) as I do movies.

Hey, we all spend our money on something.

You probably don't belong to a country club... or you don't drive a mercedez... everyone has something that they splurge on...

Nothing wrong with that...

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Seems to me that she expects it, and wants it. You need to do it.

Mark... I'm not saying swear off AWs... but this one you need to swear off of.

The positions are set and you have already lost the high ground here. From here on out, it is just a battle of attrition with you slowly losing more and more ground to her.

I've seen it before.

I actually had a girlfriend once who's favorite expression was: "It's all about me." I mean, she would say it with the cutest little smile... but she honestly felt that way.

She, too, was a single mother.

Let me tell you what I found dating single mothers. (Almost ALL of the women I have dated have been single mothers...)

First, most of them have been hurt by some guy, that's why they are single mothers.

Secondly, most of them have sacrificed for their children. This is noble. And it is real. Some of them have made incredible sacrifices.

Third (and this is the important part) almost all of them feel that the next guy they are with needs to "make it up to them" for one and two.

They have spent nights home alone, actually thinking: "You know the next guy I am with is going to be different. He is going to be ..."

And they have drawn up a list.

Do you see where their focus is? My girlfriend was at least honest when she said: "It's all about me."

Now, someone could say that those of us heading to the FSU have done the same thing. And, maybe they'd be right.

But I'll tell you where that analogy falls apart:

I was miserable trying to be the "Single Mom's" superman. It's a hard job. And I seemed to be spending a lot of time walking on egg shells.

By contrast... Victoria keeps telling me that she has never been happier than she is right now. She is what I wanted *by nature*. She doesn't have to do anything special for me to say: "Wow! Where has she been all my life!" She isn't "working" to be what I wanted. She never walks on egg shells around me. She tells me she has never felt more free to be herself.

She "matches my list" not by what she does, but by who she is. I match her list the same way.

Now... look at the list your AW has made. Has she said, "I want a guy who is loving, good looking, and good with my daughter?"

Or is her list more like: "Well, I need a guy who makes at least $100K a year, has a nice home, who can take care of me, and be there for me. And who will let me buy the furniture -- because Lord knows he has no taste -- and who can afford to get me a nice car... send my daughter to a good college some day... and... and ... and..."

If you go back to her now after she has thrown that gauntlet down, then she has you right where she wants you.

She is setting the pace and conditions of your relationship, and you have accepted them...

And another thing, about affection: It is either there or it isn't. And, it has been my experience, that affection DIMINISHES over time... it does not increase. If you have a woman who has no trouble keeping her hands off of you, and who can "take or leave" affection... then believe me, she will be able to "take or leave" sex, too.

I've been married to one of those. She wrapped sex up in more conditions and layers than than you'd find in an Enron contract. The result? Well.. how'd you like to be married to a woman and go six months without sex? And believe me, the times you get together are no picnic, because you're afraid of doing something wrong and getting cut off for another six months...

If lack of affection bothers you now... multiply it by ten. That is how you will feel when you are married. Feelings don't change when a ring goes on her finger. (If she's abstaining for moral reasons, fine... but that doesn't explain her lack of AFFECTION...)

As for advice in the FSU... I have been told that the most beautiful women are from Kherson ;-)

But, seriously, if I were you, I would contact RW...

... in response to You mean you didn't dump her?, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 11, 2002

Mark,
Excellent post as usual. I replied to your email, you've got mail as they say. You also know that I haven't been around much the last 6 months or so. I don't even know who RW is? I saw you explain it to someone else in a post and I know she sets people up but I don't know her or know how to contact her.

My last trip to Kiev with Jack was a good trip. I don't want to go to Kiev though, I think the agencies are full of crap. Like I said in my post trip report, I felt the ladies had ringers in their books who make a living out of "dating" american guys.

They were professional daters, I don't want any part of that. Sorry Jack, but they were. There were sincere girls also but many were pro's.

Jack, I also notice you have Milena's photo on your site still. You KNOW she is a scammer, how can this be? I'm not busting on you but you are always so quick to jump on other "scammers" and "Scam agencies" yet you have  a KNOW scammer plastered right in the middle of your site? Why?

Mark H.

... in response to part for Mark, part for Jack Bragg........., posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Mark,

Since I complained about Jack using this term in reference to Kherson Pearl, I will apply the same standard to you.

Milena and you had a bad date. As I recall (correct me if I am wrong) she picked the most expensive resturaunt she could, and gave you some song and dance about not being able to leave Kiev right away...

And, since at the same time I was getting emails from her telling me that I was the love of her life...

OK... I will admit... she is maybe not the most sincere lady in Kiev...

BUT... scammer?

I don't think you can say that. She never asked me for money. To my knowledge, she never asked you for money.

Maybe she's having fun "dating" right now... and isn't really serious about getting married... but that isn't the same thing as being a scammer...

... in response to part for Mark, part for Jack Bragg........., posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Mark, I will not tolerate any scammer on my site. I am not scam-proof, as I have discovered now five women I have had on my site over the last 4.5 years that I feel were scammers. And it is with the help of other men that I was able to confirm that the women were indeed scammers.

The only Milena I know of is on my page 1, ID number 15. If you are insinuating that I KNOW this lady to be a scammer, you are dead wrong. I know of some men who have met her and have taken a great interest in her. Without getting too deeply into private matters, I know that she has had second visits. Everything I have heard from any man who has met her has had good things to say about her.

If you think she is a scammer please tell me now what she did and how she scammed you. Your's would be the first scam report I have on this lady and I think you know my policy in that I need two confirmed, independent reports before I will put a woman on the known scammers link, but if you have a good verifiable case against her I will put her on the suspected scammers link. Please send me any letters or e-mails she may have sent you in which you think would help identify her as a scammer. Show me where she ask for money, gifts, had a sick child or mother? Please tell me and show me what you can so that if she is a scammer I can remove her QUICKLY and give you four free addresses in return for your help.

With regards to your feelings towards Kiev women. These were the same exact feelings you had expressed to me sometime ago, I forget now, maybe a year and a half ago. Because you felt this way about Kiev women we went to great lengths to make sure you would meet several sincere ladies in a city that I thought you would do well in, Dnepropetrvosk. Our original plans were you were landing in Kiev one day, and the next day you were taking a train to Dnepropetrovsk, so our original plans were for you to be in Kiev like a day and a half, not a week. As I re-call, you were the one who wrote me and said, and this is not your exact words, I will add a little to it, "Jack, am having a great time in Kiev with these ringers and professional daters, will not be going to Dnepropetrovsk".

Mark, I didn't want you spending a week in Kiev! Remember, we had already discussed your feelings about Kiev ladies, you said you did NOT want to spend time in Kiev. We were landing in Kiev, spending the night and leaving the next day. You felt that Kiev ladies were not the type of ladies you were looking for, so we made plans for you to meet ladies from Dnepropetrovsk. I was as shocked as anyone to see that you, on your own, had decided that these bad Kiev women were now good.

... in response to !!!!!!!!!....Help please.....!!!!!!!!, posted by Jack on Jul 12, 2002

Jack,
I'm not interested in digging up old dirt. You KNOW and I KNOW that Milena is NOT for real. MarkinTX knows she's not for real either. She's full of crap and she's a scammer. She may not be talking about sick mothers, sick kids, or asking for cash but she is not serious. She did inform me that we could get married "unofficially" and I could "take care" of her for 2 years because she could not come to America just yet cuz "her dad was in the military and it would jeapardize his job" but I could "send her money and visit a couple of times a year". Sound legit to you? She's a scammer. If she was on any other site, you'd be fileting the owners. Of course she's on YOUR site so she's okay.

Hmmmm, looks like a pig, sounds like a pig, smells like a pig......it's a pig. She's a scammer.

As for my trip, yes I did want to stay in Kiev. For two reasons. I already had a girl there that I could call on if I needed to, a good friend that went sour due to dating other women and I was having a blast with Ilya. No need to go to Dnepetrovsk. I guess I knew I couldn't get married anyway and we were having a ball chasing chicks. Old news, no sense in rehashing spilt milk. Don't take it so personally Jack, I just asked a question. I have always said your company provides outstanding service. I have always championed your staff. I am simply wondering why a scammer hawk such as yourself has a scammer on your site?

That's all.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: !!!!!!!!!....Help please.....!!!!!!!..., posted by Mark H on Jul 12, 2002

MarkH, I will respectfully disagree with you. I think Milena is a good woman. No other guy has ever said or mentioned that she was a scammer. I do know for a fact that she was very interested in meeting MarkinTex, she passed her excitement and feelings on to Rostick, who told me. I was hoping the two could meet. Something happened, I don't know what exactly, it might have been when MarkinTex went underground and stopped communicating with everyone, including Milena, and I don't know what happened there but I think MarkinTex basically dropped her and everyone he was communicating with, again I am not sure, maybe I'm totally wrong. But MarkH, this is why I don't post any woman as a scammer from ONE report. You don't offer any proof, only what you say. The great majority of scammers will say something in writing, in a letter, or e-mail, which will help to identify a woman as a scammer. In your case, I guess, you are saying this and that. I would just like to ask you for some proof. MarkH, when guys report scammers to me, and I get scammer reports everyday, they do not tell me the woman said this or that, they show me what she wrote him, what she said in her e-mail, he sends photos of the ladies in the outfit he bought for her, etc. It is not so hard to know which ladies are scammers. I do not believe Milena is a scammer and just because the two of you did not have an interest in one another is not nearly enough for me to even consider her a scammer.

YOU are mistaken, when you say I KNOW she is a scammer, I DO NOT know this woman to be a scammer, period! If I thought for one second she was a scammer she would NOT be on my site!

If she looks like a good girl, sounds like a good girls, and thank god smells like a good girl, she is probably a good girl!

You smell a pig, and are the only man to date that has smelled a pig, other men smell a good girl. I need a few more pig smellers with just a little more than she said-he said proof before I can post her as a scammer.

D@mned MarkH, I really wish you would have told me a few days before your trip you were only going to stay in Kiev!! Up until the day you left for Germany before you got to Ukraine you had me and Galina working like crazy in setting dates for you in Dnepropetrovsk. D@mn, and to think all that could have been avoided by you just telling us you had already changed your mind about going to Dnepropetrovsk and you were going to be staying in Kiev all along.

And MarkH, I only take it personally when someone with seemingly no or little regard to others feelings or emotions does something that effects a lot of other people, ESPECIALLY those of several sincere ladies.

... in response to !!!!!!!!!....Help,  please help, just ne..., posted by Jack on Jul 12, 2002

2 headstrong folks butting heads only leads to headaches.

Mark, you didn't work Jack's program like you should have, therefore you didn't have satifactory results. Milena may be a "player" and not as sincere as she should. Not a scammer, but just a poor prospect for a wife. People who wish to do business with Jack have to work his program. There is another Texas agency based in Houston that may be more to your liking, Marianna's Marriage Agency:

http://www.mariannasmarriageagency.com

The phone # is 281-358-5399

This is a mom and pop agency that only works out of Chernovtsy, Ukraine. The principals are Cecil and Marianna Sandstrum. Jack and I have met them both and Marianna sometimes comes to my church. Be warned though, Cecil is very headstrong and sometimes he rubs people the wrong way. He screens his clients for sincerety. Their program is much different and more streamlined than most agencies.

Jack, there is no point bringing up this old crap such Mark's trip to Ukraine. It makes both of you look bad. You should investigate Milena and determine her sincerety. She's probably not a scammer, but not necessarily sincere.

-blm

... in response to !!!!!!!!!....Help,  please help, just ne..., posted by Jack on Jul 12, 2002

I'm not going to wade into this fray.

I'll let you two duke it out...

However, I didn't "drop" her. She dropped me. She didn't email me (inexplicably) for two weeks (after emailing me a couple of times a day. BTW, she speaks English, and had email access at work and at home, so there was no problem there that would explain her sudden silence...)

This was a pretty critical time to stop writing, becsuse we were trying to finalize our meeting. I started trying to confirm dates with her and -poof!- she vanishes.

When she writes me again, I asked her what happened, and she says that she went away for a couple of weeks. (This was during the time that MarkH visited her in Kiev.) I told her that it was fine with me if she was seeing someone else, or whatever, but I needed her to be honest.

Then she got kinda pissy with me. She told me that I was too old for her anyway. And I said, OK... good luck...

Actually, to be honest... I think she may have gotten MarkH and me mixed up.

But then about a month later, she writes me again and says that she was still interested in meeting me when I came to Kiev, and that I shouldn't let what MarkH told me about her color my opinion.

I wrote her back and said, "It has nothing to do with anything MarkH said. It has to do with the fact that when I was trying to make arrangments, you disappeared, and when I asked you about it, you were not honest with me."

So... Do I think she's a scammer?

Not by the purest definition.

Is she a sincere lady who wants to find a husband? I can't know what's in her heart... but she seemed to be playing games to me.

It may well be that she is simply immature. She is only ... what 24? That is really too young for me, anyway. So, she was right about that...

... in response to Milena, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 12, 2002

MarkinTex,

  Of course I hear a lot of little things about how women feel and what they say about the guys who are corresponding with them. I don't remember all the details as to how you started corresponding with Milena or when, but I do re-call Rostick telling me how excited Milena was in getting your letter, and this was something she had not done up to that time.

 Maybe you are right in that she confused you for MarkH. And I have no problem in a woman telling a man that she went away for a couple of weeks. I can tell you this, she was not with MarkH during this time as I believe she saw him on one evening for one date. So as many of us guys tell the ladies we are corresponding with when we are asked where we are going when we are going to see some Russian women, do you think most guys tell the ladies this or do you think they tell them they are going on a little trip or vacation for a few weeks?

I would be very surprised if many good Russian women are going to tell a guy they are writing with that they are going to go spend a week with some guy who is coming to see them. I think for her to say that she was going away for a few weeks was a very proper and fitting thing to say at that point in your's relationship.

... in response to Re: Milena, posted by Jack on Jul 12, 2002


Nope. That's fine.

But when you are trying to set up details for a visit, and she simply stops writing, it will flat out put the breaks on the "relationship."

And, unless she was "going away" with a guy for two weeks, I fail to see how she can't send an email (even if it is just "I can't write for a few days...") when she has access every day at work, and every night at home.

And there was more, too... I just don't want to get into it.

I do think that she was simply enjoying "the dating life."

Just a feel I got, expeically when she wrote me later.

Some of her letters were pretty mean, too.

But it doesn't matter to me one way or the other...

... in response to !!!!!!!!!....Help,  please help, just ne..., posted by Jack on Jul 12, 2002

I remember hearing about this when it happened.  I think Jack is quite right, when you commit to meet certain women, you really should follow through and meet them.  
My situation was no different.  I went to Dnepropetrovsk for a week, met and fell for my girl, but I had women waiting to meet me in Odessa as well.  It was difficult to leave but I told her I needed to follow through and meet these women and that it would be terribly rude of me not to.  I expected her to be upset about it but guess what, as much as she really didn't want me to go (I could tell just looking at her face) she told me she respected me for it and not once did she ask me not to go!  I went and the whole time I was there, I was thinking about her!  I called my interpreter back in Dnepro from Odessa after a few days to see if she had heard from my girl and she said she had and she said my girl wasn't sleeping well or eating hoping that I would be coming back.. When I had met the women I had agreed to meet in Odessa (took me about 5 days), I left and went back to Dnepro and my girl was waiting for me at the train station with a single long stem rose she had gotten for me (first time a woman ever gave ME a flower!).  But I was glad I went on and met the women I had scheduled to meet because coming back to my girl, it just made me know all the more that she was the one for me, I didn't have to wonder "what if?" about any of the women I was supposed to meet.  And although it was hard for her, my girl also respected me for not just ditching those other women I had promised to meet.

My 2 cents,
Oscar

... in response to Re: !!!!!!!!!....Help,  please help, jus..., posted by Oscar on Jul 12, 2002


That's not the discussion...

MarkH DID meet Milena.

He thinks she is a scammer.

Jack thinks she is not.

This has nothing to do with MarkH reneging on his trip to Dnep...

... in response to Yes... but, posted by MarkInTx on Jul 12, 2002

Mark, I was responding only to Jacks comments about MarkH reneging on meeting the women he was scheduled to meet.  I also remember it when it happened.  So I guess it's MY discussion! LOL!  
I can't comment on the scammer discussion as I know nothing about that..

Oscar

... in response to part for Mark, part for Jack Bragg........., posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

OK... since we're long time friends, I won't tell you to go read the archives...

RW -- AKA Russian Wife. Long-time Poster. (Almost always makes a great deal of sense when she posts!)

Lives in Washington State, married an American.

Her web-site is: www.ladaconsulting.com

(Got all of that from her profile...)

I almost went with her twice. First time I contacted her after I had already made my St. Pb arrangments, so the timing was not right.

Second time I was considering hiring her, and then fate played a trump card, and I was given a free trip to Brazil.

Victoria found me there...

But, I liked the way that RW explained her services. I think you are a prime candidate for using her services. I think that you should only hire her when you are serious about getting married...

But, I have never used her services. I've just always liked her posts. She seems like a classy lady.

If you decide to go on your own, and don't want to go to Kiev again, (and we all know that you and Jack -- by mutual decision -- won't do business together again...) why don't you contact A Kherson Rose? Kherson has... I've been told... the most beautiful women in Ukraine ;-)

You can talk to Tim from Kherson Rose. He lives in OKC. Not too far from you if you wanted to visit and go over things with them before you made your decision.

Glad to have you back, btw!

... in response to About last night......, posted by Mark H on Jul 11, 2002

Hi Mark,

You have one more trip under your belt than I do but I will tell you that I completely understand your feeling about "the search"..  It can be tough to mentally get up for starting over again.  
My first trip I went on I used an agency for everything, never again.
Next 2 trips I went it "alone" as you mention, writing girls on my own from the internet, my own interpreter etc.  My interpreter would take me to different small agencies in Kiev and I would pick girls from the different catalogues.  More than HALF of the agencies I went to were rip-offs in my opinion.  Example- I went to one with my interpreter and bought like 10 phone numbers.  Well, of the 10, 2 had gotten married and another 3 were out of town, so we contacted the agency thinking they would certainly replace those girls and we were told "forget it"! LOL!  One lady who ran an agency was very nice at first.  Found out later that she literally threatened to put curses on her girls if they didn't do what she told them and pretty much terrorized her girls!  After I had found a nice girl in her agency and we went out about 4 times, the owner told me that I would of course need her to help it get it to lead to marriage and that I would need to pay for that (of course this was not discussed in the beginning when I paid $15 for the girls address and for a date to be set up).  I asked her how much and she told me "oh, 2-3 thousand dollars, what is that to you rich Americans!"  Can you believe that?  Well, I told her no way, that I had bought her address and that I could take it from there.  She then got this smug look on her face and wished me good luck.  Well, I then understood that if I didn't pay what she wanted, she would basically sabotage things with this girl, telling her I was a bad guy, or threatening her etc..  Well, I talked to the girl about this and she told me it was true, that this lady was pretty much a "monster" (her words).  Well, I told her we certainly didn't need this ladys permission to do what we wanted, but amazingly, she really cooled off after that, became "unavailable".  Of course she was in on the scam and when they realized I wasn't going to pay anything more, I got dumped! LOL!  After that, I was so done with agencies for girls!    
I liked it better on my own than the full agency thing, just didn't happen to hook up, LOTS of scammers and scam agencies.
My last trip, with Jacks help, I ran an ad for the first time and I found my girl that way.  She's never set foot in an agency (not that there are not some good agency girls out there, but I just don't want to deal with it!).  Most of the women who respond to ads are not in agencies.  
I can say that if I were going back, there is no way I would do so without a personal ad.  And my ad was really run too late (my fault).  I would run an ad about 3 months before going and again a month before going.  You would have a large amount of really nice women to meet and likely zero scammers..  You correspond with women from the first ad, then when you get there, you get all the responses from your second ad, have your interpreter and go it alone that way.  I did not have one single no-show or even one girl being late for a meeting who responded to my ad!  These women were all serious and very considerate.

My 2 cents,
Oscar

... in response to Re: About last night......, posted by Oscar on Jul 11, 2002

Nice post Oscar and you make some very important statements. I'll keep your advice tucked away in the crevices of my mind for future use!

Mark H.