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Mark,

Have you told your fiancee about prenuptial yet and if no, are you going to at all, when and how? I remember a while ago you thought it was necessary. If yes, how did she react?

... in response to Question for MarkInTx, posted by Phillip on Jun 28, 2002

Gentlemen, it is the easiest thing in the world to just say, "Get the advice of a good lawyer in your area."  But that advice is just as worthless as the advice you are likely to get from "a good lawyer" in your area.  The fact is, anytime you deal with anything in our (or any country's )legal system, it is all a crap shoot.

To begin with, you are not likely to find a "good lawyer" in your area.  Does it mean there are no good lawyers?  No it does not.  There are good lawyers everywhere, but it is like a coin toss whether you are going to find one.  And it does little good to get advice from friends regarding a "good lawyer."  What was good for them may not be good for you; the lawyer may be having a good day or a bad day or a good year or bad year, or just slip up in doing something he was supposed to do . . .  ad infinitum.

This is just like saying, "have a good mechanic you trust check out the used car you are planning to buy."  Yeah right.

JR

... in response to The lawyer thing, posted by juio99 on Jun 30, 2002

I agree completely, just ask my tooth about the dentist a coworker rcommended.

... in response to Question for MarkInTx, posted by Phillip on Jun 28, 2002

Actually, I tried to broach the subject with her, and she sort of agreed, but I got the feeling that she didn't understand what I was saying.

So, I spoke with an attorney. He said that since Texas is a community property state, that pre-nups aren't very effective. What I need to do it protect assets, and there are ways of doing that.

Hahaha...

The fact is, that I don't have any to speak of right now. The dot-bomb wiped out a few hundred thousand dollars of stocks for me, so I have nothing there.

I don't have a house yet, so I can't protect that.

So, I guess it is something I should have worried about before my LAST divorce.

The good news is that Texas has no alimony, so I won't be on the hook for that like so many guys are...

... in response to Pre-Nups, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 28, 2002

Well the reason for such a device is not just for community property, for frankly you can get your net worth established by a cpa before you marry and set up separate checking accounts in most states, so there is no comingling of assets and then only your retirement and increases in net worth would be at risk.   Also you can get out of paying alimony possibly in some states which in some states is a real problem if wife does not work, has no skills and becomes accustom to living at a certain level.  That issue varies from state to state. (I am a lawyer)

Robert d.

... in response to Re: Pre-Nups, posted by Robert D on Jun 28, 2002

You can document your net worth prior to the marraige without having a prenup. Using a CPA or other professional might be a good idea if you have enough.

I suspect (though I am not an expert at this) that this might go a long way towards minimizing any problems where you have to split any increase in you non marital property.

... in response to Re: Pre-Nups, posted by Robert D on Jun 28, 2002

So the best advice is to get a second opinion from a domestic law attorney, which I am not, in your state and pay to get a good one, and perhaps one for your bride to be as far in advance as possible.   Some states have made null prenups obtained too close to the date of the marriage.  ie the woman claims to have been under duress and could not make a proper decision. etc.

Robert D.

... in response to Re: Re: Pre-Nups, posted by Robert D on Jun 28, 2002


Thanks Robert. You have echoed exactly what my attorney told me...

... in response to Pre-Nups, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 28, 2002

Sheesh mark...are you giving legal advice now?  'Cause what you're saying is misleading and just ain't right.  And bad information coupled with a "Hahaha..." isn't going to help anyone.

Yes, Texas along with several other western states, is a community property state.  That means that property acquired during a marriage is presumed to be property of the marriage and may be subject to division by the Court upon dissolution of the marriage.  However, parties to a marriage may also contract in advance (before marriage) with respect to their respective property and income rights.  And, guess what smart guy?  Premarital agreements, even in the great state of Texas, can be effective...or not, depending on the circumstances.

There are ways of protecting assets (premarital agreements are one way), but if you think putting property in your Momma's name is going to work, just wait 'till "Natasha"  (or Svetlana or Irina or Olga or Yulia or Vika...) gets a good lawyer who discovers this and see what a Texas judge will do.

And there IS a variation of alimony in Texas.  In Texas its called "spousal maintenance" and either spouse may be entitled to spousal maintenance under certain statutory circumstances.  Call it spousal maintenance or call it alimony, but I bet any guy who's paying "spousal maintenance" sure FEELS like he's paying alimony.

[And as always mark...please use keep using them small words when talking to JohnnyDudeMan.  I mean, I'm just a simple country guy trying to "git me a wife."]

... in response to Re: Pre-Nups, posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 28, 2002

Let me go back and check, but I don't THINK my post was under the heading of: "Hey Guys, here's some legal advice for you!"

I was simply relaying, in a very distilled version, what an attorney told me.

My "hahaha" comment was not referring to the ways of protecting my assets, but instead a comment on the fact that after my stock went south, and two divorces, I don't really have any assets to protect. (See, even when I use small words, you still manage to miss all meaning and content... I'm trying JohnnyDuude... but you're making it hard...)

Richard put in legal terms what my attorney told me about pre-nups, and protecting assets.

You want to go get a pre-nup, be my guest. But I had a divorce attorney tell me: "I've never seen the pre-nup that I couldn't beat." And I believe him.

In order to have a contract enforceable, there are several things that are needed, but one of them is that both parties have to understand what they were signing.

I don't think that Victoria would understand what she was signing, no matter how much I tried to explain it to her, simply because she does not fully understand the economics of the USA.

A divorce attorney would have a field day with that.

I am very sure that a crack Divorce Attorney could either A) render the pre-nup moot, or B) cause me so much grief in a battle that it would be cheaper just to settle.

You think differently, go right ahead and wrap yourself in the protection of a pre-nup. If it makes you feel better. I decided, after consulting with an attorney, that it was not worth it.

As far as alimony, you are quite wrong.

I've been through two divorces in Texas now, and I kind of know the ropes there. My first wife looked into it, believe me!

A Texas wife can only get spousal support under very difficult circumstances: The first requirement is that she has to have been married for ten years. And, I have to tell you, if Victoria and I are married ten years, I think she would be entitled to something, anyway... There are also stringent guidelines about how much she worked during the marriage, etc... So, yes, Alimony is virtually impossible in Texas. Sorry to rain on your parade...

I know you seem to enjoy lying in wait and pouncing on my posts, and go ahead if it makes you happy.

Finding my future wife is what makes me happy, and nothing you can say or do will disrupt that...

... in response to Hmmm... I think you must have misread, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 28, 2002


Did it again... sheesh!

... in response to Re: Pre-Nups, posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 28, 2002

Robert D gave the best advice, contact someone who knows IN YOUR AREA.  I did the same thing MarkInTx did.  I spoke with three attornies specializing in family law in California.  I came to much the same conclusion-  In my case, a pre-nup would not provide any protection that I wanted that was not already incorporated into law.  I ended up taking the advice that all three attornies gave me- Simply documenting my net worth going into the marriage and keeping pre-marriage assets separate from post-marriage assets.

If Texas works the same way California does (and I'm not saying it does-  You need to talk with a real attorney instead of asking a bunch of anonymous guys on a message board) then a pre-nup can not protect you from alimony (or in your case, spousal support).

The only thing a pre-nup could have done for me is to protect earnings and accumulations that occurred after the marriage, which in my mind should be shared.

I was told that the people most in need of pre-nups are those who either own businesses, or are part owners of businesses, or those who wish to insure that at least a portion of their estate in the event of their death goes to someone other than their wife.

I've always been of the opinion that those who talk loudest about pre-nups are generally the guys who really don't know what a pre-nup can, and can not, do for them.  The bottom line is talk to an attorney in your particular state to get the straight facts.  I firmly believe that every man going into this should consult with a lawyer early on.  Once you know the facts in detail, then you can talk intelligently about pre-nups for your particular state.

Absolutely nobody should take advice on this matter from anyone on this message board.  To get the real facts, which vary from state to state, you must talk with an attorney.

... in response to You need to talk with a family law attor..., posted by Patrick on Jun 28, 2002

Excellent advice there, Patrick.

Its nice to have a place to informally share information.  And its nice to be able to rely on what others have to say about certain topics, but when it comes to legal issues...its ALWAYS better to seek the advice of a qualified lawyer in your own state and local jurisdiction.

... in response to Re: You need to talk with a family law a..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 28, 2002

duuude, let me know if you need the name of a good attorney from your city!

... in response to Re: Re: You need to talk with a family l..., posted by Jack on Jun 30, 2002

duuud

... in response to Pre-Nups, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 28, 2002

I don't have a house yet, so I can't protect that

Didn't you say before that olny your daughter will get your house? We lived in an apartment right after marriage for 3 years and then bought a house. What about you?

No assets - no trouble! :)))))

... in response to Re: Pre-Nups, posted by Phillip on Jun 28, 2002

Yeah... not having any assets certainly simplifies things, huh?

I talked to Victoria about the assets and "my daughter needs a future" stuff...

But it is all so foreign to her, she just didn't understand.

Frankly, I am sure that if I got her to sign a pre-nup, and later things turned ugly, she could have a lawyer say that she was operating in a virtually diminished capacity because she didn't understand the extent of what she was signing.