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A long time regular poster to the board here who does not want to be identified has asked me to warn any and all about the Athena Agency. Evidently they have been, and are scamming him. E-mail me privately for details of the scam (without mentioning the poster) for any non-believers.

Patrick don't know how you will feel about this? The poster has been scammed but does not want to publish his name. He has gone into some details. I guess he could always write you privately for you to verify and still be able to keep his identity un-known.

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

watch out next time I send flowers. I would hate to see my bunch of flowers end up, well, wherever .....

Hey Mate, I say this with respect and not as some smart @.. sitting on the sidelines making jibes; but the triviality of some posts around here lately, has gone beyond a joke.

Last Christmas I sent (or thought I had) some chocolate & flowers to a lady in the FSU, they were very special and so were my thoughts. Neither the flowers nor the chocolates reached their destination. Perhaps the chocolates melted in one of those stiffling Moscow stinkers and the flowers had lost some of their petals. Maybe the messenger boy needed them more than anyone else ... goodness knows. Stiff.

However, I didnt jump to PL and start warning the world of such corruption and dishonesty, of bad agencies, of scammers or anything else. It appears that when sitting back and looking at this board from the 'big picture', you take every opportunity, trivial or otherwise, to jump straight on top of anyone who appears to fall short of anything perfect, especially agencies or anyone with any sort of service to offer. I say this with respect. Then if thats not enough, suggesting that Patrick get involved and offer his services as the "Moderator" in this instance, Pppppppphewwwwwwwwww .. God help Patrick ! LOL
As one other poster has already stated, "what a web we weave" over such petty issues. Petty it is, Patrick has already split his sides laughing (or grimacing) !
And if thats not enough, I read in a later post, "But we can do it .... send flowers, buy airline tickets etc etc" something like that anyhow. Imagine, that if someone got on this board and made a post, 'Oh, warning ... I sent money to Jack's agency, they didnt deliver the flowers, they are a Scam' and this happened all because you unknowingly overlooked an email request or something simple and stupid. Your reaction would be so explosive in defence, as LP would have graphically put it, 'the people would be screamin and shoutin, bullets flyin, and   when the dust had settled no one would no who had won and who was left standing' and of course everyone else would be a @.... and a liar. You see Mate, none of us are perfect, and as a result, we who live in glass houses watch very carefully where we chuck our stones (or should) just in case we foul up.

I believe our actions speak louder than words. Your humility  is staggeringly amazing. You mentioned a few weeks ago, "I am the best in the world at this... " or something like "I am in the top five in the world at this game ...."  Geee ...... thats an awesome call from oneself.It has just jolted me to quote from the Scriptures, Proverbs 27 :2 (Let another man praise thee, and not thine own mouth; a stranger, and not thine own lips). From what I have seen over the last few years here, your actions and posts on this board have fallen way short of showing any sort of professionalism.  I believe many great posters, and even some wonderful women from the FSU just disappeared from here, they really didnt want to read any of the board's trivia or become involved in  childish behaviour. Theyve gone.So have a lot of other wonderful informists, they just couldnt compete with the best in the world.

Now that I have that load off my chest, I feel better, sorry, but I had to say it, and I believe (from email communication) I have spoken for a few other posters (and X-Posters) here at the same time.

Sincerely, good luck with "The Dream", because if you dont keep persevering it will never happen, and, I wont have anyone to criticise LOL After all, someone has to be 'The tall poppy' in this world.

Good luck to all,
J

... in response to Re: word of caution - Oh, No, I'll have ..., posted by JohnL on Jun 22, 2002

Good day mate,

 If I, or any man, paid an agency to deliver flowers and chocolate and they never arrived, the lady never received them, I would want to know why they were not delivered! You electing not to ask question, getting an explanation is totally your choice. Are you not curious as to what happened? If you were scammed by the agency, why would you not want to tell others?  Since the creation of this board, and a few others, scam agencies once identified have had a short life span. True many only change names, but the reporting of scam agencies on the whole has benefited and helped a lot of guys.

The gentleman who was recently scammed in Kiev is p!ssed! He wants to report how he was scammed and who he was scammed by. This gentleman is a long time poster to the P-L board. You, and most everyone here, has read his post's. After meeting who he thought might be his future dreambride he told her of the Planet Love board. Maybe not such a wise move but it happened. Not being 100% sure that this woman will be his future wife, and as he is making another trip, wisely he will meet a few other ladies. He cannot openly report the scam in his name. He has since sent Patrick an e-mail identifying himself and with a brief explanation, so Patrick knows who he is and knows him to be a reliable P-L poster.

You, and others, decide not to report a scam, he, and others, do decide to report being scammed. Yes John, you are correct, I will jump at every opportunity to report ANY scam agency. I will jump at the opportunity to report any "known" scam woman.**   When one can sit on top of the mountain knowing he has NEVER scammed one client and never will, having no skeletons in my closet, I have no problem in reporting any scam agency.

 I have addressed some of your statements above now I would like to address a few of your other statements more directly.

"And if that's not enough, I read in a later post, "But we can do it .... send flowers, buy airline tickets etc etc" something like that anyhow. Imagine, that if someone got on this board and made a post, 'Oh, warning ... I sent money to Jack's agency, they didn't deliver the flowers, they are a Scam' and this happened all because you unknowingly overlooked an email request or something simple and stupid. Your reaction would be so explosive in defence, as LP would have graphically put it, 'the people would be screamin and shoutin, bullets flyin, and when the dust had settled no one would no who had won and who was left standing' and of course everyone else would be a @.... and a liar. You see Mate, none of us are perfect, and as a result, we who live in glass houses watch very carefully where we chuck our stones (or should) just in case we foul up."

Mate, you are probably assuming that I (Firstdream) was offering to send flowers or buy airline tickets for this lady, right?  WRONG mate! One shouldn't assume everything!   I recommended to this man, Johnnydudeman, the name and agency of another reputable marriage agency in Odessa. Sure I could have done it, I deliver flowers every week in Odessa, but I also use and recommend other, what I consider honest and ethical agenies thru out the FSU. See Mate, when I can, I do not mind sending business to the few foreign honest agencies. It is my small way of trying to help these other honest agencies to stay in business. My business is booming, this $50 (or whatever the total might be) would help another honest agency a lot more than I need the $50. I will guarantee him that it will be done and professionally, but it may be by another agency I deem as reliable and honest. Gee, I hope I didn't burst your bubble with this news!

Mate John, I have repeated many times about the glass house I live in. Do you think I could have offered my services to over two thousand men and run a scam operation?  @ss holes and competitors take there best cheap shots at me John, and my glass house still stands, un-shatteresd.  When one lives in a glass house one had better be honest and reliable. My address, name, phone number and e-mail is published to the world, I hide nothing. John L, you cannot tell me anything I don't already know about living in a glass house.

To further quote you...."I believe our actions speak louder than words. Your humility is staggeringly amazing. You mentioned a few weeks ago, "I am the best in the world at this... " or something like "I am in the top five in the world at this game ...." Geee ...... thats an awesome call from oneself."

John, one had sure better have a lot of confidence in one's ability to make such a claim, don't you think?  I am not the biggest, never will be, do not want to be, but I am, or close to, the best.

Everyday of the week John I average 5 guys in some part of the FSU. Twice a year I sponsor a group tour, once in the spring, once in the fall. Everyday it seems I get another letter, e-mail or phone call from some guy thanking me for my part in helping him not to get scammed or helping him to have such a productive trip. Almost every month now I have two or three former clients getting married and with the current group of guys engaged of completing there K-1's, I suspect that average will go up.

Every week it seems I get a call from some guy who just realized he is being scammed or suspects it and he is only days away from his trip, what can I do for him? And with each of these calls, once I am convinced the guy is sincere, we go into action. Seven weeks ago I get a call from this one guy, a school teacher from New Jersey, who is going to Odessa and can I help him get a flat. In the process I ask a lot of questions, do not like the answers I hear and tell the guy I think he is being scammed. Well, that was the last I heard of this guy, until three weeks ago, three days before he is to leave for Odessa. He writes that he was scammed, what should he do?  I told him he should forget this trip, to start over, work hard, find several ladies that he has interest in and that they have interest in him and then go on his trip. He said as a school teacher he really only had the summer off and he really needed a vacation and already had the tickets, could I please help him. I agreed to help.  Here is a copy of the e-mail I received from him two days ago,......

Dear Jack,

Just wanted to say "THANK YOU"...I had a GREAT time. Your responsiveness to my last minute needs really saved the day, and made my trip an unforgettably pleasurable experience. And believe it or not, sixteen days in Odessa wasn't enough for me! I like to take my time in getting to know a lady, and there just wasn't enough time to do that with the seventeen women I met--only with two of them.

My interpreter, Anna, was terrific--she was much more than just my interpreter, as I'm sure you are aware--she was also my personal agent, social director, dating "coach", disco buddy and even more.

You also have a wonderful mother-in-law, Valentina, and sister-in-law, Nasta. Anna and I had occasion to go to Valentina's place one afternoon to search her database, and were treated to champagne and caviar while looking through your wedding album! She is a first class lady and excellent businesswoman.

..........

And JohnL, I get these type of letters every month and am d@mn proud of it. It is these type of letters, it is these type of feelings I get, that keeps me pumped and going.

I think very few men in the world see what I see everyday with regards to the pursuit for a Russian bride. EVERY day I receive one or two reports on scam women, and I do mean everyday!  I have probably some 20 to 30 new scam ladies I need to add to my website now, just haven't had the time. I now have a list of almost 300 women who I have single reports on as scammers. I suspect many of these 300 are scammers but without the second needed, required report, I cannot post as known** scammer. I have probably 200 new good ladies to add to our website, again, not enough time in the day.

I know and will be the first to admit that I have gotten a somewhat cocky attitude over the last two years. When you are good and you know it, it is reflected in your attitude. I can usually spot a scammer a mile away. When a man will tell me a few things about his relationship and his concerns, I can usually tell him if I think he is being scammed. Am I always right, no I am not, but I think I am about 95% accurate.  In addition many of the scam agencies hate me because I have had an impact on them in some way or another. Here on Planet Love you guys only see a small percentage of what I see and do. Over 90% of my clients have no idea about Planet Love or the other discussion groups. When I tell these guys they are dealing with a scam agency and they stop dealing with the scam agency, do you think that scam agency is happy with me? I guarantee you they are not. I do not mind going toe to toe with @ss holes either, and so you see these things and maybe you don't like them about me. I am outspoken, I know it. I love what I am doing. What was once something I could spend two hours a day with is now something that is taking 12 to 14 hours a day and I still can't stay caught up. I am making mistakes now due to the volume of business, but they are not scams, they are mistakes. Am I perfect, no I am not. But I do think I am the best in the world at what I do and I have many clients who will agree. And there are many people, probably like yourself and of course like the luzzer Shame from the Russian Women Never Accept Tackless Twits board who despise me. I am either liked or hated, very little middle of the road with me, and guess what JohnL, that is ok with me because like I said, I still love what I do every day. I do live in a glass house, the Internet is very big and un-forgiving, there is no way that my actions are going to please everyone and I know when I tell 55 year old men who write me and ask for my help in trying to meet a 22 year old hottie that I think he is sick, of course they are offended, I don't care! Nobody is forced to do business with me. If they want the best, they come to me. If they do not like my attitude or want second best, they will go elsewhere. I am happy with my morals and my standards. They are not to please you, they are to please me.

Good day mate!

... in response to Re: word of caution - Oh, No, I'll have ..., posted by JohnL on Jun 22, 2002


Sheesh... did that post have a point?

After reading it three times, I'm guessing that basically you were saying that Jack brags too much?

Listen, I'm not so sure about anonymous tips about agencies, either... but your blathering on for 8 paragraphs or so about nothing isn't bringing the quality of the board up...

believe me...

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Athena agency is not a scam!  At least not in Sevastopol.  I do not know about Odessa but the agency in Sevastopol is the best agency I have ever dealt with and I recommend them highly.  I did not find my fiance from that agency but before I met my fiance I had great results from Aethena agency in Sevastopol and I recommend them highly as one of the few honest and reasonable agencies.  This guy whose flowers weren't delivered should follow up with the Athena agency in Odessa.

... in response to Athena agency, posted by Ramblin on Jun 22, 2002

This was in Kiev.

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Have him re-register with another profile, now he can be a split personality.

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

I fail to understand why a poster would want to remain unidentified in this.  In the first place, pretty much everyone on here is aready anonymous, so what he's apparently concerned with is his board persona, not his real life image.  Why on earth would someone worry about posting a story about losing money on phoney flower delivery?

If you want this thread to remain, you're going to have to post significantly more details than you've already done.  If this guy's afraid to post his own story here for whatever reason, then at least post the full story, including how he knows the flowers were not delivered and exactly what the nature of the things the agency told him about a lady he's already visited were and how they differ from his perception.

Why is it that so many scam stories are more shadowy and shrouded in secrecy than the agencies themselves?

Writing me privaty is not an option.  If something's claimed on the board, I want it explained on the board.

... in response to Re: word of caution, posted by Patrick on Jun 21, 2002

Patrick, he is not so anonymous, like you and I, he post his real name, his profile indicates where he lives.

He wrote me that a lady he is courting READS this board!  (no offense, but can you say not so smart!)  So he is afraid she will see what he has written and it would not be so easy for him to explain this as well as future plans he may have.

I know your guidelines and was concerned about posting as such. The only thing to do is so have him write you directly. You will know who he is and will probably have no problem with his story, but I think he messed up by telling a lady he has been seeing about Planet Love and now she reads it on ocassion. In his current position I can see where he had best not be saying a whole lot that can directly tie him into various details of his pursuit for a Russian bride.

If I may inject something here for other guys. Sometimes it may not be so wise to tell ladies who you are corresponding with about Planet Love. Think about it!

... in response to Re: Re: word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

n/t

... in response to Re: Re: word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

How is the fact that an agency scammed him a problem that needs to be kept anonymous?

Is it that he doesn't want his "first" lady to know that he sent flowers to a "second" lady?

... in response to I'm confused, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 21, 2002

Mark, I am thru with trying to be the middle man in this.

This is my last comment on the subject, but if you reported an agency as scamming you, this agency was to deliver flowers or a gift to this one lady but the agency did not and kept your money and in the process of reporting this there is another lady who you are corresponding with in the same city and she knows about Planet Love because you told her about it and she knows that you did not send her flowers or a gift at this time because maybe she was away from her city, maybe you would not want to report this agency under your own name, you want to report the scam agency, but not under your own name because one of your ladies would know you were delivering flowers or a gift to another lady.

... in response to Re: I'm confused, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned, but why can't men be honest with the women they are writing to?  I guess it goes both ways, the women seem to do the same thing, and maybe it is best that neither side knows what the other is doing, but it seems like it's a bad start to a relationship to be doing this to each other.

... in response to Honesty, posted by Jeff on Jun 22, 2002

I guess that depends...

I think an RW could accept that he is writing to someone else, but sending flowers might be a whole 'nuther story.

She wouldn't understand that.

And yet... what is one of the main reasons we send flowers? To see if the woman is real...

But try to explain THAT to the other woman you're writing...

"She means nothing to me...I wasn't even sure she was real... so I sent her flowers..."

I think that would be a bit much to expect her to understand... don't you?

... in response to Honesty, posted by Jeff on Jun 22, 2002

Honesty is very important but volunteering to an FSUW the existence of this board would be an act of stupidity.

Not telling about this board would not be lying about anything.

The definition of a lie is "an intentionally false statement."

Regards.

... in response to Re: I'm confused, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

n/t

... in response to that's the longest sentence I've ever re..., posted by DJRandy on Jun 21, 2002

@/@

... in response to Re: I'm confused, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

I wonder how many ladies, that  read this board from Russia are now asking themselves, Is this the one that I have been writing?  :)

... in response to Re: Re: I'm confused, posted by terry on Jun 21, 2002

Read this board must have his head examined...  Some bring up some real ridiculous issues that get bounced around like crazy while we might understand the point of view I don't think the RW would.  Great way to start uncalled for problems.  But for the RW reading here now...  Most of the time we are just learning and do not always mean what we say...lol
Ryan

... in response to Any guy that lets his Russian Friend......., posted by Ryan on Jun 21, 2002

Just wait till you are married...my wife showed me some of the Russian web sites, the amount of men and women posting advice for the fiance visa process is incredible.
I did not see any flame wars but lots of joking and "bad" advice..

One thing all of you guys that are not married yet will find out just how much "propoganda" and misinformation your new wife believes that is true...I could tell stories that could fill a book..of conversations my wife and I have had...such as: the USA has never landed a man on the moon...it was a Russian! including a dead cosmonaut still on the moon...and she showed me the internet sites that describe it in detail!

My favorite: there is a alian space station on the dark side of the moon...and the Russian government knows all about it!

I am not making this stuff up...there are actual Russian web pages with all of this ..er, propoganda..

... in response to Any guy that lets his Russian Friend......., posted by Ryan on Jun 21, 2002

It's been almost 24 hours since we had any big flame wars, let's start one Ryan!

So what have you been up to?  Are you writing, are you looking?

... in response to Oh Ryan, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Hey jack,
Ya I am still in the game the Judge let me walk except for a little community service..  Shmokin weed, shmokin weed drinkin beers, drinkin beer...  Time to grow up.

Anyway sort of hit financially for a this fall so I am going to Kyrgyzstan for the fun of it..  I just can’t seem to get into Ukraine anymore just sort of burned out I guess.  I might be back to try it out…  
Ryan

... in response to Re: Oh Ryan, posted by Ryan on Jun 24, 2002

Ryan, there are some beautiful ladies there. How many ladies you going to see in Kyrgyzstan? One, maybe two?  

Ryan, if this is where you are going to go, concentrate ONLY on this region. Work, look, find, write 20 to 25 ladies who really interest you. Get your letters hand delivered or sent via registered mail, one or the other. With work, hopefully you will be able to find 6 to 8 sincere ladies who have a real interest in you. I would hate to think you would make this trip and see fewer ladies.

Wish you the best.

... in response to Oh Ryan, posted by Jack on Jun 24, 2002

Your right I’m only writing one right now.  I’m sorry Jack; I just can’t see going to see 6 to 8 after writing to 20 to 25.   I just can’t see doing it.  I like to write to one and make sure she knows she is special.  They plan their whole life around me being there when I say I am going to be there.  They take me into their house and let me stay with them and let me experience all that they do.  I really get a feel for what they are like, what they look like when they wake up and all that jazz.  The other way is just so not me.  I know your way is the right way, I know it is stupid to just see one girl but that’s me.  I have this agency and I talked with this woman that run it.  I told her that if I do not see chemistry in this one girl I am writing to that is from her agency that I wanted her to play the match making game and set me up.  (She claims she has done this before lot like you do for people).

Ok I promise, I just have to do it this way one more time.  If I don’t make it I’m going on a tour with you for sure.  No backing out…  I wish I lived in a country where my mother could have just fixed me up and be done with all this crap…lol NOT…
Ryan

... in response to You got me pegged......, posted by Ryan on Jun 24, 2002

Ryan there is nothing wrong with you having wonderful feelings about this one lady, but just stop and look and consider the whole picture.

What, if after meeting you, this lady realizes she does not have the feelings for you needed to be hr future husband?

What, if after meeting her, you realize this women does not project the feelings you were hoping, dreaming for, in your future wife?

What, if after both of you meet you realize the other is neat and cool and likeable, but the stong, over-whelming chemistry needed for a lifetime relationship is just not there.

You must know that there is a good possiability that one of these factors could happen Ryan.

Why, no let me rephrase that, "WHY would you wait until you get half way around the world and HOPE that there might be another woman in this ladies catalog that you will fall in love with". This is a little crazy Ryan. You know, this is something that other guy who used to post here last year by the name of Ryan would do!

Ryan, whatever city or region this special woman lives, you need to be looking now for other ladies of interest in this same city or region! You are going to hope that in this other agencies database of what, maybe 100 women, that you will like one of these women! Let's see, of these 100 women, they range from 19 to 48. You will rule out the ladies from 19 to 22 (I think) and you will rule out the ladies from 31 to 48. So you, as a young man himself, now you are hoping of the remaining 29 ladies from age 23 to 30 that there is one in here you will like. And your going to travel half-way around the world hoping to fall in love with this one, but if not, maybe 1 or 2 of the 6 ladies you picked out will have an interest in you. Just pure Bullsh!t Ryan! You should take control, you should lessen the chance of luck by you finding another 4 or 5 ladies in this city that you are attracted to and that these ladies are also interested in you. It is called work Ryan! You want to better your chances of success, then go to work, but don't put all your hope and dreams into ONLY this one woman you first e-mailed 6 weeks ago.  

Are you thirsty yet Ryan?
Why do I ask you say? Well, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

... in response to are you thirsty yet Ryan?, posted by Jack on Jun 25, 2002

My friend went to kazicstan to meet a woman-total scammer. Luckily he had an agency there to set him up with a few dates. He actaully did meet a great women who just happen to come a long distance to meet him-because of the agency. So, for guys who are lucky enough to be informed-at lease have some phone numbers in case you guys actaully do just not 'fit'.
Joe

... in response to are you thirsty yet Ryan?, posted by Jack on Jun 25, 2002

Yes I know I am being lazy.  I will start look for more women from Bishkek.  
Thanks again,
Ryan

... in response to word of caution, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Jacl, could you give us the gist of the scam on the board without revealing names etc.

Thanks

... in response to Re: word of caution, posted by hockeybrain on Jun 21, 2002


This guy, who I know and believe to be very reliable, says he paid for flowers to be delivered to two differnt individuals with photos to be taken.  The photos were never taken and sent to him as agreed to, although he paid for this, and the flowers to be delivered to the intended recipients did not happen. In addition this agency was telling him various things that didn't add up, some about a lady he had previously met (they did not know he had previously visited her), and he knew some of the things they were telling him was not correct.

... in response to sure, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Sounds minor in the nature of $ loss, but the more I hear about scams out there the happier I am.  Thanks Jack.

... in response to sure, posted by Jack on Jun 21, 2002

Speaking of flower delivery...I sent money to an Odessa agency last week for the same service.  Thay have done work for me in the past but now they seem to have disappeared and I have not heard back from them.  Will you contact me with details about doing something like this for me in Odessa?  I may also need help in making visa and travel arrangements for this girl to go from Odessa to Costa Rica or some other nice place close to home where she won't need a visa.

... in response to hey Jack, posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 21, 2002

No problem, or as we say in Moscow, nyeet a problem!

You want some flowers delivered in Odessa send me address and name. We can buy her airline tickets for her and hand deliver it with flowers if you want.