Planet-Love.com Searchable Archives

This is kind of a follow-up to Patrick's post below.

I have been to Moscow and Kherson and Odessa and Kiev...and on every single visit I ran into many American men who were also there "searching."  That's my personal experience.  On my last visit to Moscow, I was sitting in the lobby of the Marriott Avrora and there were three American men sitting at the table next to me in the lounge with their "prospective brides." When I flew from Kiev to Odessa, there were two other men who also "were searching" that I met at "the airport" while waiting for the same flight (and the planes on that route are really really small).  And in Kherson, there are so many American men there that its almost a joke, or a cliche.  In Kherson, I go to an ATM machine and there's an American man.  I go to the Nobel restaurant and there's an American man (the waiters at these restaurants in Kherson even have a kind of "wink wink" attitude as if to say "I know what you're here for").  I go to the nightclubs and there are American men.  Yes there are many arm chair MOB seekers, but there are also quite a few men visiting these days.  Its getting busy out there guys.  

But, how about those "professional daters?"  Those are the women out there who meet so many American men that they become almost jaded.  They expect a nice dinner in a nice restaurant and they often expect a gift from the American man.  And, yes, there are many such women out there.  There is a website based in Kherson which refers to Kherson as "the city of brides."  But I think it would be more accurate to call Kherson "the city of professional daters."  I have been to Kherson twice and I have met more Kherson women than I can remember, and every single woman I met in Kherson, without exception, had met numerous American men.  I met one, who is on every Kherson website and other larger websites, who told me during dinner that ten men had already proposed to her.  But she's "still looking."

So, yes, there are many arm chair MOB seekers out there who live out their fantasies vicariously by hearing others "wax poetic" about their travels.  And there are chair MOB seekers who just want the thrill of seeing pictures of good looking women and thinking they have a real connection with them by writing a few emails and letters.  But there are also LOTS of guys out there actually making the trip.  And, unfortunately, there are lots of girls out there who are professional daters and who have met MANY American men...but they just keep playing the dating game.

... in response to Arm chair MOB seekers and professional d..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

from dating scene in any country.

In USA and in Russia there are always category of women who just "spin off" guys for as much as possible. There are guys who play the field and never think about getting married.

The major difference is that in your native country (US for american men and Russia for ladies) you would identify such a "player" sooner or later and move on (at least there would not be a drama of lady burning the bridges at her native country, was she a green card scammer? questions and other things).

Going to Russia/Ukraine for some reason guys think that they can figure out woman without speaking the language to her + using "cultural difference" excuse for everything else abnormal. Oh yes, there is a magic "chemistry" feeling, but many forget that there are many other qualities you at least need to KNOW about your future partner before you make such a serious commitment.

The most scary part is most of the men are not even behaving their regular selves when they go over there - because of foreign country, stress, or that burning desire to impress the lady and throw money around.

There might be a lot said in defense of proposing after couple days, but that is still pure gambling on both sides... What are the odds?

Russian Wife

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

I remember a scam story i read a few years ago. I am going to paraphrase-my memory is not so good.
But, this guys is pizzed off because he fiance left him. What had happend is that he had gone to the Ukraine and this girl was somehow under the impression that this guy lived differently that what he did.
How did he live?
He lived in a trailor, was basically unemployed. They argued regulary and it was so bad, the guy wrote, "I had to step outside and smoke a joint!" hahahahaha
His fiance was in Medicine and had no idea he was a doper.
Now what you must rememeber is this guys was writing the story complaining about the girl scamming him. She was yelling at him and calling him a loser...............
get it.
And I have talked with 3 other women who have had similar experiences.
But I must confess, we make our own beds. I feel bad for tehe men and the women who get scammed, but it really does take two to tango!
I tell my wife daily, that she got exactly what she desereved when she got me-and visa versa.
Joe

... in response to Reading Ryans post below, posted by yoe on Jun 24, 2002

I see your point and understand exactly where you’re coming from.  I probably see it more then you do, but not necessarily just with RW.  I’m not saying that I am different or special I understand what might be the consequences of someone that tried to hide some other sort of lifestyle from their wives or girlfriends.  Actually I watch many of my friends do everyday.  It is not the life that I want to lead I assure you that.  I used to think that if I could just get a wife that I would quit all that bullsh!t and start living up to my full potential.  However; I am smart enough to know that just will not do.  In my case I will never really have to worry if I am unemployed or about not having enough to support a family but that is no concession especially when it comes to RW. (Well from what I understand anyway) Everyone changes, grows up and learns how to live life to it’s fullest I have always had a good head start.  People that think they are higher then god all mighty just because they have lived some righteous lifestyle their whole life, also have their little quirks that can lead to relationship disaster.
nice post Joe,
Ryan

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

There is a lot of truth in what you say Russian Wife..  I have known a few guys that have gone to the FSU from my city and often, all I would hear when they got back and were thinking about a girl was "she's so hot" etc..  I think it is often the case that men who go there do fall in "lust".  It would not be hard to do as there are so many lovely, willing women there!  On my last trip, I thought I might have found "the one" but I did finally realize it was 98% hormonal!  She WAS hot, no doubt!  Then you come home and start to feel the withdrawl symptoms and think "oh, I must be in love!".  But I look back on many of her inner qualities and I am so grateful I didn't follow through!
The girl I have submitted papers with now, I just feel so calm about, as a person.  Yes, I am attracted to her physically, but she is just such a great person!  I spent a great amount of time there speaking to her family and friends about her and I am so glad I did.  They didn't seem to think this was odd or anything.  I wanted to know everything about her from THEIR perspective because I knew that THEY knew her much better than I possibly could!  Well, they all adored her and pretty much to a tee agreed that she was one of the finest people they knew.  I'm serious, I really grilled these people and I think that is a smart thing to do.  I didn't do like the 3rd degree or anything, but asked a lot about her, asked for stories, about what kind of friend they thought she was, if she was someone they felt they could trust in any situation etc..  I asked a lot of fun questions too, just to keep it light.  If she is not for real, you are going to find some inconsistencies with these people at some point.  I never could.  I wanted to spend a lot of time around her family and firends to see how consistent she was with them, and she was, it was just normal for her.

Sure, we did the kissin and huggin stuff, and had lots of fun, alone and with her family, but we also stayed up till 3am talking about thoughts on child raising, spending money, saving money, religion, careers, life in America, what she expected from a husband, what I expected from a wife. etc..  And we just felt extremely compatible on these issues.  I had the advantage of seeing the kind of Mother she was (very important to me) as I saw her with her son a lot.  The kid is amazing, and that doesn't just happen, it takes good parenting.  I have met some other FSU women whose kids were not very well raised and the difference was night and day (I'm not judging them as I know life can be very unforgiving there for a single mom).

I think I felt fortunate as well in that my wife has never been in an agency before.  She said she never had any desire to be in one.  She read my ad in the newpaper and she said she kept thinking about it and finally decided to respond (THANK YOU JACK FOR TWISTING MY ARM ABOUT AN AD!!).  This is the first trip where I did an ad and I am so glad I did!  I met some of the nicest ladies this way!  Most had never been in an agency.  I am not saying there are not good girls in agencies, but I have met an awful lot of spoiled (usually the men's fault!) women through agencies, on 3 different trips.  

But even as good as I feel about it all, I have yet to "propose".  I think the 3 months together once in the USA is just soooo important!  To be together 24/7 for 3 months is actually a LOT of time together!  It would be very difficult not to see some warning flags by that time, if there are any.  Now, a guy may not want to admit to them, or acknowedge them, but I think they would most likely see them.  
It's easy to put your best foot forward (for both the man & the woman) for a couple of weeks dancing, going out to dinner, having fun etc.. I mean Ted Bundy could have fun with a date doing all that for crying out loud! LOL!  But when you are doing the daily grind, 24/7 for 3 months, especially with a child, you are going to learn a lot!  
I would personally not really recommend doing the "big trip" entertainment thing when the woman first comes here.  I think it would be best to just do the normal, daily life thing for 3 months.  THEN, once you get married, go on the trips., etc..

Just my 2 cents (ok, maybe $2.02!) ;-)  

... in response to Re: not different, posted by Oscar on Jun 24, 2002

I think you are off base a little when you put any reliance in what the people you talked with thought of your lady.  

After all she certainly wasn't going to put you in contact with anyone who was her enemy.  So these were all people who had positive thoughts about her.  They were good friends and family who wanted she and you to make a go of it.

Not trying to be a wet blanket here, but let's be a little realistic about some of this.

JR

... in response to Understand and agree mostly, but, posted by juio99 on Jun 25, 2002

JR, I hear what you are saying but I would say that it would be a big mistake (in my opinion) for a man NOT to meet a womans friends and family if at all possible.  As far as the info they gave, certainly I understand that they are prejudiced about her but as far as them wanting us to "make a go of it", I can't say that's true..  Some of them I am sure did, but her Father was very skeptical at first, and was very upfront about it!  As we came to know each other better, he came to like me and loosened up.  He then started telling me all about her- what she was like as a little girl, what she is like now, what he thought her short comings were and what her strong points were.. He told me a lot of stories about her growing up that showed a lot about her character.  It was actually very touching.    It was really informative and helpful to me.  And was she upset by any of my "questions"?  Nope, she was as calm as could be, I think because she knew she really had nothing to hide or worry about..  She really took a backseat when with her family and friends because as I found out, they really wanted the time to question ME too!! LOL!  Not once did they ask about things like money etc., but they wanted to know about my character and how I felt about marriage, etc..

Another thing that was very telling for me was the fact that even though her ex-husband had pretty much been a jerk during their marriage and a lousy Father (confirmed by others), she doesn't have bad or vengeful feelings about him.  She was more than happy to have him see their son anytime he wanted (usually he chose not to)..

And one thing I left out-  Something I also found completely invaluable was the feeling and imput of my interpreter..  Well, this is one of Jack's managers in Drenpropetrovsk.  She has been doing this for a while, knows what she's doing and she knows a scammer easily.  Well, she so liked my girl (and had never met her before she had responded to my ad) that they are now friends!  She thinks the world of her.  She kept telling me while I was there, (and I was still meeting other women) "I really don't think I will be able to find a nicer, more sincere, unspoiled, as well as beautiful woman here for you in my city!".  Well for me, she turned out to be correct.. ;-)

Later

... in response to Understand and agree mostly, but, posted by juio99 on Jun 25, 2002

JR,
You have a point, but much can be learned from friends and relatives.  Who she chooses as friends sure tells a lot about her.  Relatives can give you a background as to her up bringing and such.  None of this is 100% for sure.  But you take a little info here and there, and pretty soon you have a good idea who the lady is.  I see no negatives in meeting friends and family, only positives.
KenC

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

And then there are the very weird lucky stories-

My friend went to Russia (Tver) about 3 years ago.  He was so culture shocked that he hated it and actually came home after just after 10 days (4 days early!).  The very first woman he met (met her there for the first time) he interviewed her at the agency office for about 45 minutes and that was it, he didn't call her again or see her again before he left.  He met about 12-15 other girls while there, went on a few dates, but nothing at all special.

He comes home and about 4 weeks later this first girl that he met for about 45 minutes writes him a letter asking what happened to him..  So they start writing and do so for about 6 months and he does papers on her, goes over to pick her and her 6 year old daughter up in Moscow to bring back.  She spoke literally zero English too!  They have now been married for over 2 years and although it was a tough start for both of them (he was pretty set in his ways, he was 51 and she was 31), they are now totally happy together! LOL!  Go figure!  I think of it often as just blind luck, but to be honest, it was really hard work that got them through it!  
That was a real risk that he took.  When we talked about it he told me pretty straight- "look, you can call this FSU dating anything you want, but the bottom line is that is is an arranged marriage, a mail order marriage.  I was ready for marriage, she was ready for marriage, and we CHOSE to love each other (love being an "action", something we do, as opposed to just a "feeling"), and it worked for us.".

I thought it was a pretty unusual story.. ;-)  I could never have done it the way he did, but hey, if it works for some, fantastic!

Later

... in response to Re: not different, posted by Oscar on Jun 24, 2002

Last week my husband and I were visiting the couple who introduced us originally. They have been married for 53 years, both are still very outgoing and happy.

That's what they call fantastic. That's when you can say that it is "really hard work that got them through it!" :)

Stories like yours scare me. I don't see anything great about it. Real risk, no kidding.

RW

... in response to who knows...., posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

RW your leading post in this thread was very good and to the point.

However, in reply to Oscar's post about the gentleman who processed the papers without knowing his future wife and how that scared you, I do not see that most of these marriages are really much different.  

Another guy may have spent more time on the initial visit and may have gone back a second time with correspondence in between but, the courting stage is a different world from the real world. It is a world where things get veiled with anticipation, hopes, dreams and hormones.

I have not read one story here where I feel the guy really knew the lady enough to not be considered anything more than "I like the way you look, I enjoyed your company, we seem to get along, lets get married and see if it works"  versus lets date and see if it works.

The bottom line is few of these marriages are not essentially arranged marriages in the final analysis with people being sensitive to this, not wanting to accept this by rationalizing to extremes how their case is different.

To the outsider, this is very clear and words of I love her so much and she really loves me can be perceived as pathetic, almost like the way junior high school kids get as they first venture into romance.

... in response to who knows...., posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

Oh, I totally agree, I think it was way unusual, but it seems to work for them.  Like I said, I could not do it that way, but I have met couples before, and many American couples, that have been married for 25-50 years that say they were married a week or 2 weeks after they met!  It can happen..  It's just different, that's for sure! LOL!

... in response to Re: not different, posted by Oscar on Jun 24, 2002

youhave two people who have similar goals, enjoy each other, have chemistry, are both 'ready' to start a new life with a mate-I don't know but that sound pretty rational to me! The heck with all of that love crap-I bet even Lp could endorse that product!
Joe

... in response to I think that is the bottom line........., posted by yoe on Jun 24, 2002

..

... in response to Re: not different, posted by Oscar on Jun 24, 2002

Teenagers fall in love.  Grown ups grow to love each other over time.

... in response to Re: not different, posted by Oscar on Jun 24, 2002

I remember years ago reading a story (can't remember the name of it now) but one of the characters was from India, and he was married to a woman that had been arranged by his parents.

He said to someone in the story:

"In America, you fall in love and then get married... In India, we get married, and then learn to love..."

Not that I would want an arranged marriage!

But I never forgot that line... there is a grain of truth there, somewhere...

... in response to Re: Re: not different, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

Mark,

Yes, there is truth in his words. There is also another great saying "love is not when you look at each other all the time, but when both of you look in the same direction". So to paraphrase it, when both of you look in the same direction you do learn to love.

All the best to you,

RW

PS I read another story about Indian woman who had a big struggle with that type of arrangement here in USA.
Did not sound like such a great arrangement to me. She was very unhappy.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

I would like to think that I had a choice in my marriage...

Although, I didn't have a choice in my Divorce... so maybe we don't always get what we want, eh?

... in response to Re: Re: not different, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

And much of the world still believe in and do "arranged" marriages..

Yes, if you look at the concept of love as being an action, something we do, not just feel, it helps with these types of marriages especially..  It's GREAT to have those infatuaion feelings BUT, they will always wear off.  If at the time they do, you do not have the respect, friendship, compatability etc.. that is when it goes doen the tubes.  Most marriages fail in the first 3 years for exactly this reason, the "infatuation" wears off and the people think they have fallen out of love and think they must go out and get that feeling with someone else.
When I say it always "wears off", that doesn't mean that it cannot be recaptured at times.  That is where the work comes into play..

Just my 2 cents.

... in response to Re: Re: not different, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

SPECIAL!
There are a little more pragmatic and have a different capacity for loving someone. Maybe that is what the whole intrigue is with these women-I cannot speak for other cultures.
AW do not have this-they still want that knight in shining armor-they are not willing to grow with someone-just change them.
I do know (I think I know) one thing about my wife. Regardless of how much she despises me at times-she knows we are together and that there will be difficult times-especially with me. As I have said before-my wife has staying power. She is not going to bolt if things get hairy. And for a guy like me-that is a necessity. I think AW are great for the average guy who does the 9-5. pays his bills on time, drives the All Amreican car and you can pin point his whereabouts for the next 5 years.
But for guys like me...........I need someone with vision!
x-ray vision at that.
Again my take
Joe

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002


"" Oh yes, there is a magic "chemistry" feeling, but many forget that there are many other qualities you at least need to KNOW about your future partner before you make such a serious commitment.

There might be a lot said in defense of proposing after couple days, but that is still pure gambling on both sides... What are the odds? ""

In my opinion only, I would say the odds are not very good at all. The odds of a happy, successful marriage would not be as high as those of men who have been able to meet several Russian ladies.

Maybe more lust, than love....Maybe I cannot find such a woman like her in America and I should act now, not take the chance someone get's her before I do....Maybe it's because the trips can be expensive and I don't want to keep looking. The 6-month, or 1 year, between visits can be very lonely...... Maybe there are many good reasons why a guy will marry the first or second Russian woman he meets, one such reason being maybe they are both truely in love.

I do not know of one man who took his time, meet several ladies and in the process truely learned something about Russian women, there culture and there way of thinking, who was ever scammed by the woman he chose.

It seems to me that of the men I know who took there time, met several ladies, they have a much higher percentage rate of being and staying happily married than those guys I know who only met one or two ladies.

Percentages is all I am talking about here, not people, only percentages, only numbers. Numbers and percentages generally do not lie (unless your a book-keeper for Arthur Anderson). Numbers do not have hearts or feelings, people do and as such, some people (a much smaller percentage) will choose wisely even if only meeting one or two Russian ladies.

... in response to not different, posted by Jack on Jun 24, 2002

that would be the Joe Factor..........
38 years old, never married, has dated 'enough' women to be considered a womanizer. Has been in 7 serious relationships (1-3 years) and a few 3-6 months and numerous 2-3 hours.
And yet, the moment by the third day with my wife, I 'believed' she was the one.
I cannot explain all of the 'odd' coinicidences that kept me going. I cannot explain that the 2 very pretty girls in the US that stayed with me (seperately of course) met with me daily (seperately again) never meant anything.
I cannot give you and 'REASON'.
In my life I usually know at first glance if something is for me or not. I know what I like. Yes I have met 'nice' girls that would have been wonderful wives-so someone else. But the 'chemistry' was not there.
So, even though I agree with you, I have dated enough women to know that I do not need to date 2-100 more RW to know if if love my wife.
Like the ole saying goes, "times with weed and no money will get you through better than times with money and no weed?" Oh wait that is a different story-you get the picture though.
If you do not have the chemistry all the blondes in Siberia won't cure the ill.
Just my personal experience.
Joe

... in response to what about the J factor..., posted by yoe on Jun 24, 2002

Jack had a good point about men who feel pressure to propose.  Spending lots of money and investing the time, emotional energy and effort to get there, plus the fear that if they don't move ahead quickly, someone else will, can put a lot of pressure on men.

Then there's a few men who suffer the "B" (babe) factor.  Some guys are on a mission to marry the trophy wife they couldn't get here in the US and doggedly pursue the sexiest women doing whatever it takes to get them.  Throwing lots of money around and quick proposals before they get snatched up by someone else.  These are the men at greatest risk IMHO and we see a few of them on this board from time to time.  Wasn't there a fifty-somthing year old guy who was searching for a wife around 19 just a while back and complaining about an agency who didn't meet his expectations?  They apparently weren't able to supply enough women in this category who were truely interested in him.  I wonder why?

There's a lot more to a woman and a relationship than looks.  Looks fade and the effect they have on a man fade even quicker.  If she's not beautiful on the inside, no amount of sexiness is going to compensate.

... in response to The "P" and "B" fact..., posted by Patrick on Jun 24, 2002

What this whole thing boils down to is like all things in life-what is the intent.
I intended to go meet some girl that I enjoyed talking to and have a cool vacation. Never was the love word mentioned in 6 months. Never money mentioned.
I must admit though-I was paying an agency for all of my emails. And after my trip and phone call expense (.85) back then. I was down a little cash. It would have been hard to just walk away.
I have no doubt that I was lucky and would not recomend my way to anybody. But, I am here and my situation is better than any of my friends and/or relatives. All of my family thinks she is the cat's meow.
But, I did not go after a 24 year old-I joke about going back and trading her in for a new model though! :)
I just know that it is C   R   A   Z   Y!
I do not have any answers, just my experiences. One thing that you and Jack have is an agency point of view and can see many things that I do not. But I have met some guys that went over and I know they are divorced now-they got their Golden trophy. But I think that is one of those cholcolate bunnies wrapped in Gold alumanum. I hate to see what happens when things heat up.
Hey sometimes you win, sometimes you loooooooooose. Goodtime Charlie's got the blues!
Joe

... in response to The "P" and "B" fact..., posted by Patrick on Jun 24, 2002

asd

... in response to not different, posted by RW on Jun 24, 2002

n.t

... in response to Arm chair MOB seekers and professional d..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

Wow... Sounds like you are quite experienced...

A couple of follow up questions? (And a comment)

One: You've met many women, and have not yet found the right one... but you must have found several that you could have asked... but didn't... So how are you different from the jaded and professional women Daters? (that is an honest question... not trying to zing you...)

Two: How did you meet all of these women?

And the comment: I think that Patrick was simply relating percentages...

You met...  what, three men in Moscow? ... a few in Kiev? Even looking at it expansively... how many American men have you really seen in your travels? 100? 200? Compare that to how many addresses are sold by just the big three agencies alone, and I think you can see Patrick's point.

(BTW, I was in Kiev for a week, and I didn't see many Americans. Maybe it was because I wasn't staying at the Marriott? The couple I actually met were Ex-Pats or Military. The only MOBers I met were at the airport, but that's a lot more common, I think... we all have to fly home, and there aren't that many flights in and out of Kiev in a day...)

... in response to Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profession..., posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

Yes, Mark, I have had many experiences (many good and some bad), but I don't claim to be so experienced that I can't learn from others.  That's why I read this board and sometimes it has some good and useful information.

You ask how did I meet these women?  I met some through introduction agencies where the meetings were arranged.  I met some by requesting their information from agencies and by making the meeting arrangements on my own.  And I met many women on my own by just saying "hello" on the street or in a cafe or in a club.  R/U is no different...its the same way men meet women anywhere in the world.  But I have never been on a "tour" or a "social" (not that there's anything wrong with that).  And, no, I am not yet jaded (although I am somewhat more disillusioned and a little wiser now than I was when I began).  I continue my search with skepticism and confidence that I will find what I am looking for.  The difference between you and I is that I did not have sex with the first girl I met in person after just some emails and phone calls.  And I would not ask a girl to marry me under those circumstances.  "That just don't seem right."  

I have met many great girls and I am holding out for the right one...and I am definitely not willing to settle.  I have even met one or two who could be the right one and I'll be back to re-visit before just jumping in.  I hope no man who goes there settles so quickly.  I'll take my time and do this right and I'll find the right girl for me.  I mean, how crazy is it to go through the great effort and expense just to settle for the first girl you meet?  Its like the saying, "you get what you settle for."  I have a friend here in my city (and I think you know who you are) who did that and he's happy, but also apprehensive as to whether he rushed in too quickly.  And now he says "johnnydudeman" I've got to admnit...you're doing it right. :)  So, we all make our own choices and we must live with them.

And yes, I also agree that Patrick is right about "armchair MOB seekers."  I think I even mentioned that in my post.  Its true and undeniable that there are RELATIVELY few men actually taking the trip in proportion to the "wannabe" men who just seek addresses and just write emails and correspondence and I agreed with him in this assessment.  However, to say that many of the women on these websites who are "seeking an American man for a relationship which will lead to marriage" have never met American men doesn't jibe with my experience.  Yes, I did meet women who had never met American men and I also saw many American men over there and I also saw many professional daters.  And I think they often found each other.  That is my experience and I'm not saying I am "oh so experienced."  Come on Mark, you really believe that a woman who is attractive and savvy enough to get her picture on the internet is not going to meet some American men?  And do you really believe YOUR Kherson girl hasn't met a few American men?

You mentioned the Marriott.  You should check out the Marriott Avrora in Moscow.  Its kind of nice.  They offer butlers who can help out with all kinds of things. :)

... in response to Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profes..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

Dude,
I agree with most of what you posted here.  However, you need to open your mind up for all the exceptions. I went over to meet one girl that I had gotten to know through many months of phone conversations.  Neither of us were shopping for a spouse even though we "used" an agency.  After another trip, I helped her get a visa to spend time together here in America with me without any proposal of marriage.  While she was here, we took the plunge.  That was three years ago and we couldn't be happier.
Just as a side note, I did go on a few dates with other RW while on my first trip.  I did this on the very good advice from the agency.  These dates verified to me that my feelings for my wife were real and not just a "Russian thang".  She on the other hand had met many AM during the 4 year association with the agency.  She had at least 4 "proposals" from AM.  She usually deflected the romantic advances of the AM and converted them into friends. She even helped a few to find "good women" to marry in her city.
BTW, we stayed at the Marriott when it first opened and were impressed with it.
KenC

... in response to there are no rules, posted by KenC on Jun 24, 2002

n/t

... in response to BTW, I never felt like I "settled&q..., posted by KenC on Jun 24, 2002

Ken, you married the first woman you met!

You barely dated anyone else at all!

Before the second trip, you had made your mind up...

Maybe you settled.... Aren't you eaten up at night wondering if you made the right decision???

Oh... wait... it just occurred to me that every night you are in bed with Lena...

I withdraw the question....

;-)

... in response to Really?, posted by MarkInTx on Jun 24, 2002

n/t

... in response to DOG!  LOL  n/t, posted by KenC on Jun 24, 2002

asd

... in response to Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profes..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

However, for the record...

Victoria was NOT the first person I met with.

You seem to feel vastly superior to me because you feel that I "settled."

That's an interesting sentiment, since you know absolutely nothing about my life outside of the seven days I wrote about in Kiev.

But, if it makes you feel better... go ahead...

... in response to Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profes..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

I must agree that there are a lot more men who have gone over there than in previous years.  While I agree with Patrick below that the vast majority of those who write are of the "armchair" variety, my personal observations of my visits over the past year to Ukraine correspond with those of yours.  In the big cities, it is not unusual to find AM with RW.  Moreover, most of your "competition" for these women comes not from the U.S. or Canada, but from other Western European countries (Germany, U.K., Netherlands) where it's a lot quicker to get there and in most cases you can get a visa for the girl just to visit you there which you can't do here.

... in response to Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and profes..., posted by johnnydudeman on Jun 24, 2002

I must agree that there are a lot more men who have gone over there than in previous years.  While I agree with Patrick below that the vast majority of those who write are of the "armchair" variety, my personal observations of my visits over the past year to Ukraine correspond with those of yours.  In the big cities, it is not unusual to find AM with RW.  Moreover, most of your "competition" for these women comes not from the U.S. or Canada, but from other Western European countries (Germany, U.K., Netherlands) where it's a lot quicker to get there and in most cases you can get a visa for the girl just to visit you there which you can't do here.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and pr..., posted by Charles on Jun 24, 2002

there are very few AM that go over-in the hundereds
there are many more Europeans, Austrailians, Middle Easterners, and Isrealis. Some guys may see Americans when he is there just because he is familiar with this-he cannot see a true picture. After I began writing my wife-I met more Russians in 6 months than my entire life. does that mean that there was an influx of Russian came then. NO. I was just aware of that particular part of life. We have a tendancy to see what we wish to relate to.
The truth is much different that perception.
Joe

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers and pr..., posted by Charles on Jun 24, 2002

My wife is helping a Russian girlfriend get her ad on some of the "free to post" internet sites...her frind is a 45 y.o. woman from Kaliningrad...and for the past few months has been recieving a few letters every day. My wife shadows the activity of the correspondence so she can help her friend with translations and advice. The letters that she is recieving are not from USA....mostly from England, Norway and Germany. I try and not get involved...and I tell my wife to not get too involved also...but to see some of these "impersonal" letters is quite the opposite of my letter writing to my wife.

What I find that is "funny" is the terrible writing skills of English men...the Germans are more into showing thier photographs of thier homes and the Norwegian letters are short and "just trolling" for a quick get togeather.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Arm chair MOB seekers an..., posted by Apk1 on Jun 24, 2002


Yes, there are letters... and then there are letters, eh?

I helped a couple of guys send out their first letter a couple of times. Especially when I went to Brazil, because I had a computer translator program which supposedly did a pretty good job (I heard that from some of the ladies I wrote... they thought I spoke Portuguese!)

I was apalled at some of the banal letters the guys put together. I have no idea if they ever got a response...

But in this process, we all have ot do what feels natural and comfortable, so I resisted all temptations to rewrite their letters.

I did sometimes give them advice about how to phrase things so it would translate better, but that was it.

I would hope that if they got a reply that they would have spent more time on their second and third letters...

But, who knows?