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Hey guys,
Just a quick note to say I'm done. I graduated Saturday and 30 months of pure hell is completed. Now, my Anesthesia boards are all that remains. I won't take them until July sometime. I start work monday the 20th, thank god.

Others may find this interesting. I received an email 2 weeks ago from a Russian girl that I had written to.....2 years ago. When we were writing hard and heavy we became quite close. It became apparent to me that my program was too intense to actually bring someone here to America so I let her go. It was difficult.

ANyway, she emails me and gives me her phone number. She's in Alabama. Hmmmmm.  Turns out she met and married some guy here in the states, they were together about 1.5 months and she left him. She contacted a russian girlfriend in another state and moved to the same city as this friend. She filed police reports, etc... against the guy and has restraining orders against him, etc... Sounds like she is following the "HOW TO LEAVE YOUR AMERICAN HUSBAND IN 90 DAYS OR LESS" home course. I think they ALL may be aware of the: what to and not to do, stuff.

She is in the process of getting the divorce and the guy has some cash. She wants none of it. She has her own job already, has a little daughter who is in school and her own apartment. She wants to meet me now. SHe kept all my letters and my email address. Hmmmm. I'm not sure what to think or do on this one, any ideas?

She seems very legit and left the guy because he was "weird". She said he wouldn't let her go to her ESL classes, and basically wanted her to sit at home and never leave the house. THe bird in the cage scenario. It is nice, she is already here.

Some answers you may want, she was married in Russia and came as a wife, not a K1 visa. She said it took 5 months to wait for the VISA to come as a wife. Is that a K2? I don't know.

Mark H.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

he has just stirred up the biggest 'Ant's Nest' since the Pre Troll days ! He is laughing all the way to work soon !! Do any of you really believe, knowing MarkH, after all his committment to the last three years or so of Night/Day/ Study/Tutoring +++, he is going to go out and take up this piece of second hand 'Trollop', who has no MORAL MEASURING CONSCIENCE in life, and date her? Only a FOOL with his education would do that. Get a grip you Blokes, he just 'sucked' you all in. He has no more intentions of getting serious with her than flying to the Moon.

However, what he does have to gain could be some of the most incredible and fascinating experience, of seeing first hand, how these women work & think. I look forward to hearing of any adventure (hopefully excluding temptations) MarkH might share with us, which could further enlighten this Board.

I say this, trusting MarkH knows where he stands in relationship with his Creator, after all, I was young and rebellious once too, I know what he is going to be tempted with. Just handle it "Dude"(to use Mark's favourite expression) and share it with us !!
Good Luck, Best Wishes in the Profession & Good Fun !
JohnL

P.S. Hey Mark, who won the 18 with Arnie?

... in response to MarkH is Laughing .. ALL the way ......, posted by JohnL on May 15, 2002

John,
Long time no hear my friend. How are things down south, and I mean waaayyyyy down south? I still want to get over there and throw you a visit, see how the Aussie's hang!

You are correct, I'm sure many interesting stories are on the way and I'll keep everyone informed. It is interesting finding out the things I am finding out. I DO want to know how these girls think OUTSIDE of their environments.

I do want to see how she is away from VISA's, FSU, and other restrictions. She needs me for nothing. I need her for nothing. I plan to learn alot.!

See ya Dude,
Mark H.

... in response to Re: MarkH is Laughing .. ALL the way ......, posted by Mark H on May 16, 2002

"She needs me for nothing. I need her for nothing. I plan to learn alot.!"

There are three parts to this sentence and with the first part of the sentence you simply do not know at this point if that "She needs me for nothing" is true. Don't assume my freind - thats all.

... in response to MarkH is Laughing .. ALL the way ......, posted by JohnL on May 15, 2002

John,

I know, I know - in many ways this does not look good - even worse than that - however, she could be innocent.

My call is Mark is going to move on this. I just can not imagine him not doing such. Mark will figure it out and I, like you, think that if he is willing to share, what transpires will be interesting. Mark is no fool, he is not without suspicion, more than I think his posts reveal IMHO.

In the hidden arena I am sure everyone is mentally taking bets on this one. And without the trolls, this is a welcome Sherlock Holmes event to get one thinking vicariously.

So, we know your bet :))

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

Mark you once knew me as greg or greg123.

Mark, who knows what is going on here. From my experience, you are a very nice guy. Nice guys as a rule are more prone to being trusting - even when they think they are experienced enough to be worldly enough to not be concerned about such. This is my only concern here. Trusting is a good trait but a trait that has its vulnerability issues. I know, I am of the trusting sort and have some wounds to prove it although from my posts in the past it may not be so obvious that this is my nature.

I do not remember you mentioning this lady before but there are no tieing references to the past in your post. However, subsequent to her, you did make other trips to the FSU - so even though you say that you did not have time in your life to bring someone over - evidently something kept you returning.

Now that your program is through, I would suspect that the arena of options has changed and that some restraints are now gone and you can look at all of this somewhat differently. And now that you are finally freed from the shackles of your program bingo here this lady pops up from the past.  

I had two reactions to your post - one my optimistic positive side envisioning that she never ever got over you and brought your address with her just in case she ran into problems with this guy. The other reaction was the realistic pragmatic side that thought something is fishy about all of this.

The truth will surface for you if you keep your wits about you. It is my opinion that you need to have both sides working full time -that being your skeptical side and the other being the trusting side.

However, with all that said it would be my advice that with this lady, IMHO, you need to view as a scammer or one with an agenda until proven otherwise. If you are interested in her, you need to pick up right off where you ended it, all the while being a second clandestin person behind it all who is the guy who is going to find the truth and not trust what she tells you. I personally think this is the best way to have her reveal the truth - not by questioning her right away but by being the person that she feels she can trust, that she can rely upon because if she is a woman who simply got in a bad situation and she is really the right woman for you, that will be exactly what you will continue to be for her until the day you walk down the isle with her if that end result is meant to be.

If the lady has agendas that are priority and thus her USA husband was merely a ticket, she is not going tell you any different and in fact will continue the program with someone else if they are needed. And thus, she could have an agenda with you also but is giving you information or lack of information to throw you off or not allow you to see this.

There are so many things that are or could be yellow flags here of which a few are if one takes the skeptical side approach:

An honest sincere lady would not marry a man that she does not feel that she is in love with. And, any woman who thinks she is truly in love will forget about prior men as she has found the one. She should not have brought your address to contact you or anyone else. She came prepared.

She left the guy so soon? I mean they did not try marriage counseling or anything?

He bought her a vehicle which would give her freedom yet denied her classes? This sounds conflicting.

If the guy is that much of a loser, how come she did not pick up on any of this before? Possible sure but, I do not know.

How could you be part of the agenda? === She is not sure if the charges will hold and needs an ace up her sleeve if things get tight. She needs a man to step in and marry her if it looks like deportation time is around the corner. She may be just being smart by hedging all her bets.

She told you all the good things to corroborate her story and got her friend to back her up about him being weird and how she gave back the vehicle and does not want any money. Yes sounds good, something you would want to hear. Is it true? I am telling you that you do not really know this. Her husband does for sure. But, will you get reliable information out of him and how will you get it?

Just be careful. I for one really would like to hear how this all unfolds. I wish you luck.

... in response to Hi Mark, posted by thesearch on May 14, 2002

Greg,
Hey! Nice to see you're still around. I had no idea you were this "SEARCH" person. HOw are things? HOw is your son? I hope all is well.

As for this situation, you hit it on the head. WE think very much alike. I have proceeded with extreme caution but not overbearing caution that would give her reason to suspect my suspecting????? long sentence????  Anyway, I'm doing exactly what you are saying.

Nice to see you around my friend,
Mark H.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

I may be from the backwoods but I at least have some common sense.  

But when she takes you for a ride, well, you'll know just about everyone said "lookout".

... in response to Re: The truth hurts..., posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

Caution definitely in order - Conclusions are premature

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

Hey Mark,

I just saw an article in USA today that said that Nurse Anaesthesiologists are in high demand right now, and are namingf their price, all over the country...

Looks like you graduated just at the right time!

... in response to USA Today, posted by MarkInTx on May 14, 2002

Mark,
YOU are correct and that is why I had such a hard time deciding where to go. Sometimes you can have too many options, never thought I'd say that.

See ya,
Mark

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

That he called her and didn't give us these facts.
Now you have left out, where she is living now (city)?
And how far away she is from you.

But of course, your going to date her... Is it going to be a long distance romance? A state or two away? That's great, your in there!

Where is she working at?

If she's that fine looking in short dress, you can bet she'll be dating more than just you. Which is cool. I'm all for her establishing ties here in the states and getting with the local customs.
--
Maybe I am wacked on the kind of woman that I am looking for. That I want a good motherly lady to take care of ME. I want my lady to have her own business at home raising our kids, as well. (prior to me, meeting any woman I do look at her current job skills, I don't want to marry a woman that is a accountant or a rocket scientist, where she could be making more money in Russia/Ukr. and living a decent life over there, I don't want her to have to lower her standards for me, only to be unhappy and think the what-if-I stayed home mental game. The girl that I get will, not be going backwards in life, but always forwards in her economical well being.

If it means, marrying a country girl with no college or university education. So be it. I am realistic to my surroundings and opportunites.

I'm looking for someone with a background that is similar to mine. No doubt, I pass over alot of women. But ya just gotta have some sort of bearing on what you think will work out in the long run than just picking anyone off the street or internet mail order bride site.
---

You didn't tell the size of the town she came from in Alabama. I know in the big cities you can wear short sexy dresses, but out her in the rural areas. The lady will be deemed something less than honorable, if she wears something too sexy all the time. I'm not against her where something sexy at home or nice occasions out. But, if she knows she's the hottest looking girl in the county. Why fan the flames and get more attention than warranted. I will adress this to her, but not take her clothes away. (Ya got to admit, most guys will try and talk it out before something drastic of that magnitude would have had to take place). If she speaks english and can write it, she has a pretty good education where she rationalize with the other person. (I do know about a guy on this message board who is a rancher and would have to tell his wife to put on jeans to come out of the house and give him a hand doing something in the barn. Dress are great don't get me wrong, but if you live in the country she really needs to know when to wear jeans and when not to... She complied with his wishes).

It's really how comfortable you would be with the gossip factor, if you lived where I lived and the type of people that I live amongst (a bunch of two faced a%%&#$@#!). Or, if you lived in a big city, well your just another face in the crowd.

... in response to Re: facts left out of his inital post, posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

Hey idiot,
THis is a forum for public discussion of topics, insight, and whatever the heck else someone wants to write. I don't need some dimwit, backwoods, 40 acre and a mule recipients' permission to do anything. I fail to see where I ASKED your freaking permission for anything. Dude, you gotta get a life. YOu have way too much time on your hands. PUt some of that time to good use, learn to read and write correctly.

As for what you describe as your ideal mate.....I feel very sorry for that chick. Also, as far as stepping UP economically, you'd better find a backwoods, small town poor russian girl, even she won't take your drivel for long.

Mark H.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

is so little bonafide info.  One can guess and suppose and come to either conclusion...but the conclusion is based on insufficent data.  Its just not there.  Is like a rorsarch ink blot test...what does one see from an undefined and undileniated glop.  All we see is who we each are,   with our own opinions...right or wrong.  Then again she will be moving on ( in due time ) to husband # 3.  Not such a great track record.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

If you asking us for permission to go see this girl.  What are you waiting for?

You yourself question her integrity with the statement in bold letters "HOW TO LEAVE YOUR AMERICAN HUSBAND IN 90 DAYS OR LESS".

You left out how long she has been stateside.

She's probably written you off, if you delayed calling her to ask for our permission, to call her.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

Is call the dude up and ask him what happen.

My guess is she bolted.  (now that's just me).  What kind of a half-wit would get married in Russia and not do the 90 Day marriage visa trial period.

Heck, for all you know she slipped into the country via Mexico and she's gonna use you to shack up with...

If she won't let you talk with the other guy.  Well, just think.  You've never met this person - only e-mailed her and your going to let her walk into your life.

Keep us posted... So that when she dumps you and takes 1/2 of everything you've got and go on to the next guy, we can all chuckle about it.

... in response to Re: What I would...before you even meet ..., posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

You know WS Bill,
You just don't make sense. Recheck the dosage instructions on your lithium. Also, get a life. The concept of you sitting around "waiting to be posted" on other's lives indicates the lack of your own. What a geek.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: What I would...before you even m..., posted by Mark H on May 14, 2002

Your in denial, because you are the party that this lady is calling on.

Had you gone and met this girl?  Not according to your post.

After 45 days this girl is already claiming abuse!  Because the guy keeps her at home.  Sounds to me this marriage was a sham and she's calling you for help!  Go ahead, bring her into your house...Somebody elses wife.  What do you think she'll be saying next.

Get real. LOL.

... in response to Re: What makes you the foremost authorit..., posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

Get real? Perhaps you should heed thine own advice. I've never claimed to be an expert Bill, you seem to. You don't know her story, just little tidbits. Yet you are calling her a scammer without knowing the story? Why? You seem very bitter, very bitter.

Based on a couple of posts you have tried and convicted her of being a scammer, lying, cheating, and that her marriage was a sham. I never said I was bringing her into my house, where did you get that from?

I think your post gives all those with a clue in life, what type of guy is out there soliciting FSU women. You're the classic nutbag these girls have to put up with. I could see your wife running before 6 weeks, I would.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: What makes you the foremost auth..., posted by Mark H on May 14, 2002

I don't recall saying she was a scammer.  But that I took a very wide approach to what she was saying to you in a e-mail, and that you were posting/asking our opinion.

Call her Mark H.,

Why do you post a message, where in which with one phone call you can get all the facts.  Find out what Alabama town she is from and then contact the law enforcement there and hear from them or the social service people the gist of her complaint of spouse abuse.

But Nooooo.  You want to ask for OUR thoughts on this matter.

I know, before I would open my house up to a STRANGER, I would get the fact.

Hell for all you know is she just got out of prison with her kid and she married the first bus leaving Moscow for America.

If she thinks Alabama is bad, wait til she gets to San Antonio.  And see's all those Mexicans/Hispanics*, like 65% of the population, (the Russian ladies that I have met are  very racial, calling blacks bad things..{when we were walking in Kiev, she was very vocal as they walked past}).

You can bet she'll be thinking there needs to be a ocean around here...this is like the Crimea (hot) but without water.  That ole'sewage canal running through town is a real novelty, but it ain't an ocean.

And with you going off to work at the hospital everyday to leave her home alone, she'll be claiming abuse, too.  

She will no doubt, contact her friend a state away, and then contact a old e-mail aquaintence in San Diego, San Francisco or Los Angeles...

*in Alabama it was the high percentage Blacks she objected to.

... in response to Re: Classic denial response..., posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

The Russian girl goes to Alabama, experiences culture shock with an ethnic group she doesn't care for and hits the door right away.  Foreigners think Califonia is the place to be; that's what they have told me.  They don't wait long enough to figure out that the South is a good place to live, and vacationing on the beach of the Florida panhandle is a heck of a lot better than the beach on the west coast if you actually want to go in the water.    

I think this girl would also be surprised when she goes to California amd finds even more ethnic diversity.  Less than half the population in California is caucasian now.  Can you trust a girl that didn't even give the marriage 2 months of effort?  You can gather more evidence, but the preliminary stuff doesn't look good.  I think Bill is just talking common sense here.  She took advantage once, why be guinea pig number two.  

... in response to I think Bill has some good points, posted by BubbaGump on May 15, 2002

First of all, Bill doesn't have any common sense.

It amazes me how people can distort words and come to weird conclusions. Where the heck is California coming from? No one has mentioned California? You also write "The Russian girl goes to Alabama, experiences culture shock with an ethnic group she doesn't care for and hits the door right away."  Where the heck did that come from?

This board amazes me.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: I think Bill has some good points, posted by Mark H on May 15, 2002

Mark, it is just common sense to avoid a girl in this situation. If you can't see that, I can't make you see it. These girls have incentive to claim abuse to stay in the USA.  The rules are set up that way now and all the women are supposed to be informed of that before they come over.  I think she took advantage of that.  You don't want to find yourself in the last guys position do you?  If a person has a bad past history, avoid a relationship with them.  

The comment about California was brought up by me because I have heard it from several immigrants.  They get the impression from movies that California is the greatest place to live and they have to move there.    

Bill and I and several others have both noticed that Russians don't like minorities at all.  There have been a lot of comments about that on this board.  If a Russian girl is uncomfortable with minorities, then there are a whole lot of places in the US they won't like and California is one of them.

... in response to You're still in denial, posted by BubbaGump on May 16, 2002

I can relay to you the experience my Russian teacher had. She is in her sixties and doesn't offend anyone but she doesn't seem to get along with black people. She said that some black folks have been expecially offensive to her. They hate her accent and call her a Nazi along with other offensive words. She has experienced abusive behavior from blacks many times so she feels very uncomfortable and threatened around them. Some of this abuse she has experienced was on the bus she took to get around town. She finds Houston to be very unfriendly and is surprised that people are so horrible to each other.

She gets along with other ethic groups. When she was in Russia, she was friends with Jews, Tatars, Germans, Chechens, Muslims, and others. She has many Jewish Russian friends here in Houston.

There are Russians who dislike other ethnic groups and Russians who get along with just about anyone.

One thing that is important in get along with and the respect of Russians is to be polite and gracious with them. Some Americans are arrogant toward them and that upsets them and makes them feel uncomfortable. Avoid such behavior as much as possible. Often the language barrier can create a problem. The best thing is to have patience when they have trouble understanding you and don't make them feel nervous. I have met some absolutely brilliant Russian scientists who have difficulty speaking English. You would never know how brilliant they are unless you took the time to listen to them. Most Russians are highly educated and are far advanced in math and sciences than Americans. Those of you who married RW/UW with teenage children can attest to this. One newly immigrant child at my Church is 3 years ahead of her American peers in her studies. She is only 12.

-blm

... in response to You're still in denial, posted by BubbaGump on May 16, 2002

I haven't read your bio in a long time and I thought you were from California.  I also thought you were much younger.

... in response to Re: Classic denial response..., posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002


I feel I simply must speak up on behalf of San Antonio -- truly one of the coolest and undiscovered cities in the United States...

First off... Bill, why did you mention it? Mark H isn't from Texas, and isn't moving there when he passes his boards... so, why do you feel you need to mention San Antonio, of all places?

Secondly, I think it may be a bit of a broad brush to say that all Russian women are rascists.

Thirdly, in terms of population, I am quite sure that more African Americans live in Alabama than in San Antonio, so I am not sure what your point was... San Antonio has a large population of hard working Hispanic people... And I doubt that any Russian Woman would be presumtively prejudiced against them.

However, for all of you who are looking for a great place to spend a few days, I would like to highly recommend San Antonio. True, if you are a rascist you may not enjoy it... but the city is the ten largest cities in the US, and you would never know it by visiting.

It has wonderful character, and the Riverwalk downtown is one of the most romantic spots I can imagine (in a city) to walk with your lady. (TIP: Do a Priceline search for a hotel before you go. I regulary get a four star hotel on the riverwalk for $69 a night!)

Of course, the Alamo Shrine is there, and I highly reccommed that you see the IMAX movie "The Price of Freedom" before you tour the Alamo.  It will help put it in perspective. And don't skip the gift shop. There is an amazing model display in ther ethat really brings the sense of the Alamo home, I thought.

Not far from Downtown is Sea World, where the crowds are almost always much lower than you would expect. There are also Japanese gradens, and a wild animal park.

So... please... ignore WSBill's slurs on this fine city, and visit it for yourself...

Commercial Break over... we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming...

... in response to For The Record -- San Antonio, posted by MarkInTx on May 14, 2002

n/t.  I don't have any problems with people of color.  I've been to San Antonio, but my town of choice would be Corpus Christy or Austin.

... in response to Re: Look at Mark H. profile sez he's fro..., posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

Pay attention to his posts... he's in PA now...

... in response to But he's not there now, and won't be, posted by MarkInTx on May 14, 2002

I respected him as a TEXAN...

but now........... I don't know. :)

(Thesearch sumed it up pretty well)

I don't know about you guys, but there are some hot looking and very nice american nurses in hospital!

Now who works going to work in a hospital ?

... in response to Re: Oh Christ... HE's a YANKEE, posted by wsbill on May 14, 2002

You know dipshiit, you really should proof read your posts before you post them. Of course, that would insinuate you could actually read. You are certainly the lead dweeb.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: Oh Christ... HE's a YANKEE, posted by Mark H on May 15, 2002

Moron like you is going to read it.

... in response to For The Record -- San Antonio, posted by MarkInTx on May 14, 2002

Mark,
I AM FROM SAN ANTONIO. This dork must know that. Actually, San Antonio is now the 8th largest city in the nation and I love my city very much. YOu are correct, I am not returning after boards. This guys a dweeb.

Mark H.

... in response to For The Record -- San Antonio, posted by MarkInTx on May 14, 2002

I believe this website is based in San Antonio. It was the last time I check it out.

http://russia-in-us.com/

-blm

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

Mark,

Congratulations on finishing your degree. Good luck on the boards.

In assessing the bona fides of the FSUW, consider the fact that she brought the names and addresses of you and probably every other AM she ever wrote to with her to America. Does this sound like a woman who is in love with and has made an honest commitment to the man? Does six weeks have any ring of sincerity?

Obviously not.

Just think about it: she marries the man in *Russia* and makes sure that she has the address (email or otherwise) of every American man she ever corresponded with when she comes to the States (don't flatter yourself by thinking that she only brought yours).

Only a woman who was plotting and planning ab initio would do such a thing. And of course she *has* to blame the man in *some* way. What else is she going to say? Have you noticed throughout the history of the FSUW phenom that the "bird in a cage" claim is the most common? There is a reason for this - all FSUW compare notes. It is the easiest claim to make as it requires essentially no corroborating evidence and is difficult to refute, and is not so sticky as a claim of abuse. Is six weeks even sufficient time to support such a claim? Clearly not. If he was "weird", why did she marry him in Russia in the first place? By making such a claim she basically admits that she just used him to get to the States.

If she was sincere, she would already be back home with momma. She would not be utilizing her "resources" to stay here.

I wouldn't trust her with a ten foot pole.

Caveat emptor!

Regards!

WmGo

... in response to End it before it starts, posted by WmGo on May 13, 2002

Wmmmmggoooonnnna say it straight!!!

Hey guy, you are correct. I've thought of all the things you are saying and I have all my 'sensors' in check. I'll be watching what she says, how she says it, and so forth....I also realize what the heck...she's here!

Mark H.

... in response to End it before it starts, posted by WmGo on May 13, 2002

I think this is a bit premature to think she is nothing but a scammer after leaving a guy 6 weeks into it!  There are a LOT of guys who can be rather strange, to put it mildly, looking for women in the FSU!  Who is to say that the guy wasn't a total loser and was deserving of being left??  I hardly think this woman would have to resort to looking up past guys just to land a man here..  If she's cute at all, there are plenty of new guys that would likely accomodate her..

All I am saying is to get the facts before you jump to conclusions..

Later

... in response to Re: End it before it starts, posted by Oscar on May 13, 2002

We *were* provided sufficient facts from which to draw a valid common sense conclusion. Although many, perhaps most,AM writing and traveling to the FSU *are* "weird", the saddest reality is the fact that most AM, weird or normal, ignore the multitude of red flags waving in their anxious faces....

... in response to Re: Re: End it before it starts, posted by WmGo on May 14, 2002

very true statement.

... in response to Re: End it before it starts, posted by Oscar on May 13, 2002

it is rare that I can not spot a total loser (woman) within minutes that I am around her. How did and why did she miss this one? Yes some people can fool you. Too many questions here - so many that no one can comment with any certainty but only speculation.

... in response to Re: End it before it starts, posted by Oscar on May 13, 2002

And as WmGO said, the facts do not speak to someone of good character.

There are, quite simply, too many great women over there for anyone to be content with anything less than a person with whom (and in whom) they feel implicit and complete trust.

I almost never respond to posts of this sort - because the 'truth' is just impossible for us to 'know.' Still, the few salient points in this instance are just too much to ignore - IMHO.

FWIW

- Dan

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

First off, I'd call her. I mean... why not? You wanted to meet her before, and now meeting her just got easy... might as well... (Have her meet you in Vegas ;-)

But... three things that would be interesting to know:

1. Does the fact that she left her husband mean that she needs to find another way of staying in the US. I know that it is possible to stay, but it might be a struggle, and marrying someone new might simply be easier...

2. How many other guys did she send an email to? (I know, you can't know this, but it would be good to know...)

3. Is the Restraining Order a gimmick? Or was she really abused in some way?

I don't think that anyone can really comment on her character until they know those three things. If she needs a new meal ticket, sent out 30 emails to "old flames", and just got the restraining order to have leverage in court... then, of course, stay away.

But, it is also possible that she a) could stay in US easily anyway, but b) she always was interested in you, and still wants to see you (did you give her a time frame as to when you would be graduating, btw? If she remembered that, it is a very good sign) and c) she got scammed by some guy who romanced her, and seemed like a good guy, and she discovered she made a huge mistake.

If scenario A) she's a nightmare. If Scenario B, you may have just become one of the luckest guys on the board, because your Princess is here and waiting for you.

Who knows, though?

My vote: Call her. You'll never know until you do.

... in response to Three Questions, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

Mark,
I'll try to answer your questions.

1. Does the fact that she left her husband mean that she needs to find another way of staying in the US?

NO. She doesn't need anything from me or any other American man to stay in the country. She is here and will not be deported. She's going to court within the next 2 weeks to force her husband to sign the divorce papers. He's refusing to sign. Her lawyer is handling everything. As for money, she has her own job and her own money. She wants NOTHING from her new ex-husband. He had bought her a nice SUV, she gave it back to him and doesn't have a car. She wants nothing from the guy. I thought that was cool.

2. How many other guys did she send an email to?

No sure. You're correct, I have no idea. I remember when we were writing, she had to go to her mothers work to write me, and she did...every day for almost 4 months. She's a quality chick, I don't see scammer at all.

3. Is the Restraining Order a gimmick? Or was she really abused in some way?

I've talked to her on the phone several times and even talked with one of her American girlfriends. The American girlfriend told me some interesting stories and validated how freaky this guy was. One of the first things he did was take all her clothes she brought from Russia. He said the dresses were "too short for AMerica" and he didn't like everyone seeing her legs. SHe's quite beautiful.

Soooo, I've called her and we've talked alot already. I"m planning to see her in a couple of weeks and we'll see how it goes.

One thing I think is nice about it is this: we have no 90 day waiting period! We can actually DATE and get to know each other as long as we want. We can even live together if we want without any time constraints. I like it. Also, I will never have to "sign" for her to be here. I know she wants to be with me as she can pretty much have her pick of any American guy she comes across. We'll see. I'm too busy to worry about anything, I"m taking it as it comes.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Three Questions, posted by Mark H on May 14, 2002

He bought he an SUV?  That is one generous guy.  I'll bet she was just taking advantage of some geezer for the plane ride over.  As for getting rid of her dresses, a lot of stuff the women in Russia wear would not be appropriate at all over here.  Maybe anything goes in San Diego but not in the conservative South.  I have seen a lot of Russian women advertising on American dating sites and I wondered what their story was.  

Remember, the women cannot be deported if they claim abuse under current immigration law.  All the women have to be informed of this law.  This rule was pushed by feminists that wanted to encourage this type of reporting so they could say what crazy guys we are.  A rule like that only encourages all the Russian women divorcing to claim abuse whether true or not.  Before the new immigration rule, the reported abuse of Russian women was extremely low.  

Believe it or not, very few immigrants are deported.  Over 250,000 immigrants a year are ordered deported but the INS is not doing it.  No wonder we have a terrorist problem.

... in response to Re: Three Questions, posted by Mark H on May 14, 2002

That you called her and didn't give us these facts.

Now you have left out, where she is living now (city)?
And how far away she is from you.

But of course, your going to date her... Is it going to be a long distance romance? A state or two away?  That's great, your in there!

Where is she working at?

If she's that fine looking in short dress, you can bet she'll be dating more than just you.  Which is cool.  I'm all for her establishing ties here in the states and getting with the local customs.
--
Maybe I am wacked on the kind of woman that I am looking for.  That I want a good motherly lady to take care of ME.  I want my lady to have her own business at home raising our kids, as well.  (prior to me, meeting any woman I do look at her current job skills, I don't want to marry a woman that is a accountant or a rocket scientist, where she could be making more money in Russia/Ukr. and living a decent life over there, I don't want her to have to lower her standards for me, only to be unhappy and think the what-if-I stayed home mental game.  The girl that I get will, not be going backwards in life, but always forwards in her economical well being.

If it means, marrying a country girl with no college or university education. So be it.  I am realistic to my surroundings and opportunites.  

 I'm looking for someone with a background that is similar to mine.  No doubt, I pass over alot of women.  But ya just gotta have some sort of bearing on what you think will work out in the long run than just picking anyone off the street or internet mail order bride site.
---

You didn't tell the size of the town she came from in Alabama.  I know in the big cities you can wear short sexy dresses, but out her in the rural areas.  The lady will be deemed something less than honorable, if she wears something too sexy all the time.  I'm not against her where something sexy at home or nice occasions out.  But, if she knows she's the hottest looking girl in the county.  Why fan the flames and get more attention than warranted.  I will adress this to her, but not take her clothes away.  (Ya got to admit, most guys will try and talk it out before something drastic of that magnitude would have had to take place).  If she speaks english and can write it, she has a pretty good education where she rationalize with the other person.  (I do know about a guy on this message board who is a rancher and would have to tell his wife to put on jeans to come out of the house and give him a hand doing something in the barn. Dress are great don't get me wrong, but if you live in the country she really needs to know when to wear jeans and when not to...  She complied with his wishes).  

It's really how comfortable you would be with the gossip factor, if you lived where I lived and the type of people that I live amongst (a bunch of two faced a%%&#$@#!). Or, if you lived in a big city, well your just another face in the crowd.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

One of my wife's best friends who happens to be a woman in her 50's came to the USA on a K-1 and left her to be after 2 months. Not to stay in the USA, as she plans on going back to Ukraine, but because her fiancee didn't want her to go out and basicly thought he was acquiring a 'live-in' maid.
So sometimes it is the man that can be the scammer and misrepresent himself and paint a picture of himself that isn't true.
Thus yours friends story might be true and that getting a hold of her might not be such a bad thing. Just proceed with caution.
And congrats on graduating & GL in your future endeavors...aloha

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

There is a character issue involved here. If she was willing to marry an AM on false pretenses just so she could get a free ride over here, why would you even consider associating with her? How do you know she is telling you the truth? As far as I'm concerned, she is a visa scammer and deserves to be deported and barred from entry to the USA for life.

-blm

... in response to I would stay away from her..., posted by BarryM on May 13, 2002

it does happen.  especially with insecure types...

... in response to My ex's first husb was just like this, k..., posted by BrianN on May 13, 2002

Except I was the one in the cage.  She was afraid other women would try to pick me up and sleep with me.

... in response to I would stay away from her..., posted by BarryM on May 13, 2002

Barry,
You are a little quick on the conclusions.  Maybe it is your paranoia that has your judgement clouded.  You have to be open to at least the "possibility" that she misjudged her current hubby and he turned out to be a bad guy.  I don't see things as "black & white" as you do.  It must be a gift that you have!  LOL.
KenC

... in response to a little quick, ain't ya?, posted by KenC on May 13, 2002

I hope you read MarkH's message. The marriage lasted 45 days... not 18 months, 6 months or even 3 months. That sounds pretty fishy to me. Even if her husband was abusive, she should be required to go back. Spousal abuse shouldn't be an automatic ticket to get a green card. It has been abused too much by immigrants.

-blm

... in response to 45 days is a little quick for even a sca..., posted by BarryM on May 13, 2002

I'm not so sure I agree...

If she was deceived by the man, and fell in love with the romantic notion... why should she be "sent packing" when he turns out to be a monster.

I agree that it can be abused, but I think we have to allow some leeway here...

If she came over here and was totally different than what he expected, you would be screaming foul and saying that he should send her packing. Don't pass go, don't collect $200.

So, why when he has been a con artist must she face the humiliation, and expense, of returning home. She probably left a job. She may have given up an apartment. In the case of the woman Mark H is referring to, she also has a child to consider...

Why should the woman assume all of the risk?

If he is abusive... I think it changes everything...

IMHO

... in response to Required to go back?, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

abusive do we?  We hear part of one side of a story.  Have many of you read the RWA forum?  The moment a RW posts that she and her husband aren't getting along, the first thing (or dam near the first thing) the other RWs post is that she needs to claim abuse!  The fact is, it is TOO easy for them to do this.

... in response to But... we don't really know that he was, posted by DE on May 14, 2002


My only comment was that BarryM is suggesting that she gets sent back, no matter what.

If the guy doesn't like her, or if she leaves the guy -- poof, instant deportation.

I'm saying that there are two people involved here, and that's not fair to the woman.

I speak in general. I don't think you can categorically say that any woman who doesn't make it to two years with her new husband should be sent back.

That doesn't strike me as fair.

Nor is it "fair" that a man have to support any woman for ten years if she comes over.

I would like to think that someone is able to look at the evidence and decide each case individually. I know that probably won't happen, I'm just saying what I think is fair...

... in response to Required to go back?, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

Gee, that's a loaded question.  Sounds like it's the guy that's taking on this HUGE RISK.

Especially, the bonehead that married in Russia and didn't go the K1 Visa route, that is insane.  You can bet if anyone went on a Social tour that agency would have had a talk with that guy.

This reeks setup.

Just like all the guys are saying, she's got all these e-mails from guys in her past to call on.  How convenient.

... in response to Required to go back?, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

Every side has two stories and the truth will probably lie somewhere in the middle.

Of course if he deceived her or is mis-treating her she should be allowed to stay, she did nothing wrong and more than likey he broke her heart and dreams. A man like this should not be entitled to the warmth and grace of a Russian woman.

However if this man did nothing wrong, and he was scammed, he probably is broken hearted and she should be deported.

So what really happened, who is in the right and who is in the wrong?  Certaintly it is not for us to decide, but more than likey a court of law and all we can only hope that justice is done accordinly.

... in response to Required to go back?, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

The way the laws work in most states, a husband can be charged with abuse without any sort of proof other than his wife's accusation. Even if she says she "feels" threatened, that can be enough for a conviction in some states. The INS only requires a charge of abuse to meet the requirements for a green card, not proof.

I think that requiring the woman to return to her home country is necessary to stop such visa scamming. What would be a better solution would be for the soon to be ex-husband to kick in $3000 - $5000 in living expenses for his immigrant ex-wife upon her exit from the USA. In most of Ukraine and Russia, that would be more than 6 months living expenses. There is risk for both parties but a free ticket on the gravy train here in the USA is completely unfair.

-blm

... in response to and what proof would be required?, posted by BarryM on May 13, 2002

Barry,
You obviously do not what you are talking about.  A RW comes here and has to start her life completly over again from scratch.  Her education and any work experience isn't worth anything in our job market.  Besides any language difficulties, she would have to work at a level that is way below whatever her education and or work experience was back home.  Let's see, a single mom with no work experience or education to open any doors, yeah, that sounds like a bed of roses to me.  How easy do you think it will be for her to support herself and child working at McDonalds?  I say that if she can make it here with the cards she is starting with, WELCOME TO AMERICA, BABY!
KenC

... in response to Gravy train?, posted by KenC on May 14, 2002

Sure she comes here without the necessary diplomas etc. that will easily open the job market for her.  Sure she leaves her friends and families, but, isn't this the RISK that she takes in marrying someone she barely knows?  The fact is, many of them take this risk knowing full well that the chance of success is slim.  But when it does fail, most will do anything to not have to return back to their country.  And they certainly find out very quickly that claiming abuse is the loop hole that will at least buy them the time to find someone else so that even if the INS doesn't buy into the abuse, they've been able to delay leaving intil the next unsuspecting victim (I mean husband) saves her.

And in this particular case, does "wierd" and not allowing her to go to ESL classes constitute abuse?  Maybe there are other reasons she is not telling that he can not take her to these classes (maybe they are an hour or two drive away)?

... in response to I disagree, posted by DE on May 14, 2002

DE,
I agree that we don't KNOW for sure either way.  That is why we cannot make a valid judgement in this case.  THAT was the point that I was trying to relay to MarkH.  Check her story out and be very leery.  I wouldn't automaticly write her off as a scammer nor would I necessarily believe everything she says either.  I like the suggestion that someone made to try and contact her soon to be exhusband before getting in too deep with her.  With her already here in this country, Mark has little to risk in contacting her.
KenC

... in response to Gravy train?, posted by KenC on May 14, 2002

Remember? Unless she becomes a US citizen, an immigrant sponsor is on the hook for up to 10 years in the case of an immigrant spouse. All those affidavits of financial support you fill out are for that purpose.

-blm

... in response to 10 years of support...., posted by BarryM on May 14, 2002

Barry,
Isn't the "support" you refer to actually a re-imbursment to the government should the woman go on public assistance?  This girl already has a job and her own apartment.  She doesn't sound like a slacker.  I also wonder if the support affidavit is the same for couples that marry in Russia.  (I just don't know the answer to that one)
KenC

... in response to Re: 10 years of support...., posted by KenC on May 14, 2002

I read this early on, shortly after I started my search. There was a long discussion on this topic on another board.

It almost scared me off.

From what I can tell... Technically, you are on the hook for any assistance that she gets from the government for ten years.

However, considering the Governments less-than-steller record at tracking immigrants in our country (did you see that two of the terorists posthumously got their VISAs renewed??) this is a clasue without much reality.

Even if she goes on welfare, the governement simply does not have the efficeincy neccessary to find you and bill you.

And if she has a job, then she is paying taxes, and you do not have to support her.

From what I read about a year ago, FWIW...

... in response to Re: 10 years of support...., posted by KenC on May 14, 2002

I do not expect you to know everything but you do come up with the answers a lot. Please read Ken's post and give your thoughts.

Thanks

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

You would even consider this cold, calculating woman?  Maybe all the studying has clouded your judgement.  Good luck getting through school and the boards.  I recommend you let this woman, who has now been divorced at least two times, meet her just fate.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

We have a girl who left for Chicago 2 weeks ago on a K-3 visa. They got married here in Kharkov and 3 months later she had her visa made up. If they did not mess their papers up in the beginning - they could have made it within 1 month!!!I think for now K-3 is the fastest way to make the US visa for a girl.
regards
Dmitry

... in response to That was K-3 visa..., posted by Dmitry on May 13, 2002

It was not necessarily a K-3 visa (K-3 is still relatively new), and the K-3 visa is not always the fastest way. In fact, I don't think the K-3 is any faster, for most countries, than a DCF (and I-130).

Just FYI,

- Dan

... in response to Not Necessarily - and Not Really . . ., posted by Dan on May 13, 2002


Who knows about the K-3?

If what Dmitry said is true, the location of your wedding could shave 3-5 months off of the whole process.

Does anyone have any information on this?

Dmitry... where did your girl get married... what was involved in setting up a legal marriage there, and where does she live now... do you know?

... in response to This would be good to know, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

It was passed along with President Bush's Life Act and was intended to abbreviate the time that families must spend apart while they are waiting for paperwork to work its way through the INS bureaucracy.

DR and Jimmy from this board (and maybe others) are both familiar with the process from first-hand experience.

The fundamental differences are:

With DCF and K-3 visas, you must marry in the foreign country. This is reportedly easier in Ukraine than it is in Russia owing to more lax (or should I say, less-enforced) regulations for the waiting period. Both countries stipulate a 30-day waiting period before ZAGS is to issue your marriage certificate, but it is malleable in Ukraine (to as little as a day or two).

With DCF you eliminate the INS bureaucracy altogether and deal exclusively with the Embassy's Consular Corps. Whether this is a good, or a bad, thing is dependent on the Embassy. For Warsaw, it is not bad at all.

DCF should take approximately 1 to 3 months from the time of the marriage to the time she is issued a visa and is able to enter the US.

For K-3, the timetable is approximately the same.

K-1 can take as little as 2 months (if using an INS Service Center like Vermont that is lightning-quick) or as long as 6 months (the other 3 Service Centers).

All of these are from the perspective of the first time you take an initiating step - such as marriage or filing the first form with INS - to the point that she is able to enter the country and join you.

It is also worth noting that INS is (finally) apparently starting to spread some of the workload across the 4 regional service centers. If done properly, it would be bad news for Vermont Service Center area residents and good news for CA, NE, and TX area residents.

The long and the short of it is - this is an ever-chaging terrain and the ONLY assurance is that - once you get started, it is best to plan to exercise a healthy dose of patience.

I hope this helps.

- Dan

... in response to Mark, K-3 Isn't Really A Mystery . . ., posted by Dan on May 13, 2002

From what I saw in the little roll call I started, Texas would take 5 to 6 months from the moment the paperwork is initiated until she actually touches American soil...

If you are saying that in Ukraine that might get cut down to 1-3 months, that is a significant difference.

I'm looking at it from this scenario:

Man goes to Ukraine, and meets several women. Finds one he thinks really might be the one. He plans to come back in two months to spend more time with her... He has her start the paperwork after the month before he gets there to get married there. (Is there such a thing as a Justice of the Peace marriage in Ukraine? Or does it have to be in the Orthodox Church?)

He arrives, and they get married and file for the K-3 (or DCF? I'm really not clear on what the differences are). She can come with him in one to three months...

The same scenario where he goes back, and then starts the K-1 has her here in six months.

That's interesting information...

I mean.. .I understand... patience is required. But, if you think about it... I'd rather be patient for three months than six...

... in response to Thanks -- It does help, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

Yes, you are correct that both are for marriages first take place in the foreign country. And both involve the filing of an I-130 - but they differ in most other characteristics. In the case of DCF (Direct Consular Filing) the I-130 is filed either with the Consular section of the American Embassy in Kyiv (which, in turn, send it on to Warsaw for processing), or you can file it directly with Warsaw. I'd probably opt for the former - even though it may add a week or two to the overall processing time.

From that point forward, they are processed quite differently. In the case of the DCF, the Consular staff in the Embassy is responsible for all processing and decision-making. The result is an approved *immigrant* visa which means that you don't have to fuss with such things as AOS and EAD.

In the case of the K-3, you return to the States and file an I-130 AND an I-129 with the INS. I believe they may have recently set up a central processing location for all K-3/K-4 applications, but I may be wrong on that. Supposedly, the K-3 (I-129) action will be relatively quick - but you are, once again, working through the INS and they must also coordinate with the Embassy's Consular staff for things such as the interview.

The K-3, as I mentioned earlier, was designed to eliminate the long waits for people that were separated from their spouses (and sometimes families) while waiting for their family members visas to be approved. Those waits were normally far longer than 6 months - and some lasted a year or more.

In that context, the K-3 is a dramatic improvement - and it probably is close to as fast as the DCF. However, having worked with the INS now for more than a year - and having spent some considerable time with the American Embassy Consular Staff in Kyiv, and to a lesser extent, in Warsaw - I'd opt for the Embassy Consular Staff every time.

A word of caution is in order however. Mike not long ago told of some stories in Russia where the American Embassy was somehow involved and NOT allowing marriages to be recognized for people that had lived in Russia for less than some minimum number of months (6, as I recollect). So - as I said in my other message - this is an ever-changing landscape that requires some considerable study and preparation once you've decided on the lady you want to spend your life with (or at least, the foreseeable future --smile--).

FWIW

- Dan

... in response to K-3 and DCF . . ., posted by Dan on May 13, 2002

According to recent reports, it should be noted, for those going through Moscow instead of Warsaw, that DCF is now limited to USC's actually living in Russia.

... in response to end and beginning........, posted by Mark H on May 13, 2002

Markster,
Congrats on your new life!  Be careful not to screw it up with Ms. Alabama.  Even though she is convienent, she has proved that she is not above being deceptive to get what she wants.  Not the best character trait I would look for in a relationship.  Because she doesn't need you for the free ride to America, I would check her side of the story out, but with a very leery attitude.  If any inconsistancies arise, I would run for the hills. She gave her marriage a whole 6 weeks, huh?  Be very careful.
KenC

... in response to the good, the bad and the ugly, posted by KenC on May 13, 2002

Good post,,,, all too often true. My wife has freinds, FSU, in all parts of the States and I've heard this kind of story more than once. I mean let's face it, there are 2 type of men that go to the FSU or abroad for love,, those that are fed up with AW or just love european and the type that would never find a wife here. Sounds to me like she's a sharp girl whose lonely and maybe wants to rekindle an old thing? Give her a call!   :)
Steve

... in response to Re: the good, the bad and the ugly, posted by Stan on May 13, 2002

Not that I disagree with your post... but it reminds me of something my father told me once:

"Son, there are two types of people in the world...

Those that divide the world into two types,

And those that don't..."

... in response to Two Types, posted by MarkInTx on May 13, 2002

Your father was wise!   :)
Steve