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I am curious...

You are 57. You said you want a woman with no children.

Are you looking to have children of your own?

If so... are you ready to change diapers and take care of kids when you are 60? 65?

If not... do you really expect to find a woman in her early twenties who will marry you, and give up the chance of ever having her own children?

I am wondering because I don't want to have any more children... and therefore, I assumed that I should be looking ONLY for women who have a child... my thinking being that a young woman (especially from the FSU) would not be happy living her whole life, and never having a child.

When you are talking to a 20 year old without children... do you discuss this?

... in response to Europete -- A question, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 19, 2002

Of course we've all seen the tat between a few of the other parties on this board and how it just drags the board down.

Even if this was someone else besides Europete, I would have stood up and said something.  Why post something so demorizing and negative.  Don't you think this guy had thought about it.  Sure everyone has.

What's to say, he finds one that works for him.  Who's to say he doesn't live to 99 and to watch his wife and child age gracefully.

What's to say, you find one that works for you.  And at 45 years of age you suffer a massive heart attack and keel over dead.

What's the difference.  I guess, the moral to the story is, make sure you have your life insurance policy up to date when your married.

----
My 1900 colorful & insightful posts are really what this forum needs.  Maybe not all my posts are on the topic of Russian/Ukraine life or wife hunting.

But I'm sure a fair amount of them were quite entertaining, since you did seem to remember who posted them. :-)
----

... in response to Re: Why attack some in a public forum ?, posted by wsbill on Apr 21, 2002

Attack?

Naa... I was just showing off all of the features on my nifty new calculator...

Look! It does addition and subtraction. Neat, huh?

... in response to Attack?, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 21, 2002

Well, I wasn't going to say anything, but since you just got a new calculator and all and might be able to get your money back, try 78 years of age, maybe 77, when the child gruduates from High School, not 72.

... in response to Math, posted by Jack on Apr 22, 2002


Forget to hit the store key after I added to the 66...

You are so right!

78 when the kid's out of high school...

... in response to Awww... shucks... My fault, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 22, 2002

Gee, didn't that ole'geezer leave her a cool couple of million.  

(sic).

... in response to Awww... shucks... My fault, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 22, 2002

Can you imagine that, 78 when your kid graduates from High School! And I am sure the 39 or 40 year old wife is going to like playing bingo at the old folks home every saturday.

... in response to Awww... shucks... My fault, posted by Jack on Apr 22, 2002


Yes... absolutely...

That's what we mean by "traditional values" isn't it?

I mean... after all... it's the least she can do for being "saved" from her fate of living in the FSU, and being brought over to America... right?

Makes perfect sense to me...

(Wow, Jack... you're not "attacking" anyone... are you...???)

... in response to Why... of course!, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 22, 2002

No Mark, I don't think I am attacking anyone, but am probably attacking a certain type man.

I am still learning everyday in this pursuit for seeking a good Russian bride. At first I was selfish during my own pursuit and did not care to share everything with everyone. Good example was how effective personal ads were in 98 and 99 (not quite as effective today in comparison). I did not care to tell the world then, as I was still looking. But after finding my own dreambride, I want to share all of the good, the bad and the ugly.

The age thing will never end. When I started my own pursuit I put a maximum 12 year age difference on the ladies I met. After meeting many ladies, getting to know them, I could see with there overall maturity that 15 years was no problem, and of course with more time, experience, meetings, I could see that 17 and 18 years age difference was no problem.

Today I know of many happy marriages where there is 20 years age difference, I know of a few 22, 23 years age difference. So over a period of time, as I see many things for myself, I can now work with men who are seeking 20 years age difference and will consider certain men seeking up to 25 years age difference. But when you get over 20 years age difference's, the chances for a good, lasting marriage lessen. It can, does and will happen, but the number of happy, successful marriages will be much less than those marriages say of 15 years age differnce.

I really do not want to waste my time with any man who is seeking a lady with 25 years age differnce. The chance's of this marriage being successful are so remote, so slim, I don't want to be a part of it. I have listed on my group tour section on my website that any man seeking ladies with more than 20 years age difference shouldn't sign up for my group tour. Most ladies do not want to waste there time with a man who is 22, 23, 24 years older than them, most, not all, but because there are so few ladies who will consider this age difference, it is really a waste of my time, my employee's time and the ladies time.

As we speak right now I have a man on our current group tour who is 55 years of age. He knows my feelings about this. He wanted meet to help him meet a lady who was 28 years of age some 6 weeks before our group tour and I refused. I told him, and I tell all men, you want a lady that much younger than you, then you contact her on your own and I don't want to know anything about it.  Now this guy is in Odessa wanting to see young ladies, in there early 20's and I won't allow our staff to have any part of this. Now I am a scammer to him, just taking his money, not providing a service.

I cannot please everyman, AFA, Eurpean Connection, Lugan Girls, Kherson Rose cannot please everyman and the way these guys get even with us when something doesn't go there way is to call us scammers.

So Mark in a very long way of answering your question, it is not attacking an individual as much as it is attacking a myth regarding Russian ladies who seek men 25 and 30 years there age and the men who believe (or dream) this.

... in response to Why... of course!, posted by Jack on Apr 23, 2002

I was hoping you were...

Guess that means that I am alone in my attack-dog status...

It's lonely at the top... or the bottom... or wherever I seem to be...

... in response to Re: Why attack some in a public forum ?, posted by wsbill on Apr 21, 2002

Bill,
The back and forth with europete has been VERY informative for all that care to read them. I wish that I could say the same about your ridiculous and inane posts.  Remember the saying, "it is better to close one's mouth and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt"?
KenC

... in response to Hello? anyone home?, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002

The less declarative statements you make, the less likely you will look like a fool in retrospect.

But then again, (like in that country song)

If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

Pick your poison.

... in response to Hello? anyone home?, posted by KenC on Apr 21, 2002

Hey, I don't care.  What anyone thinks.  It's like this marriage stuff... I'm not super desperate to find anyone.

Any future trips to Kiev or Russia will either in the capacty to be more of a tourist and I've taken on the role of a sort of ambassador to these Ukrainean orphages...

50% of all the vegtables that I sell from my garden, will be donated. (they hydronponic ones are selling well!).

I'll find a wife one of these days, I'm just not in that big of a hurry.  I'm going to fall back on the "fate" statement of oatmeal.  When it happens it happens.

... in response to Europete -- A question, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 19, 2002

I think many men are wanting to re-live their youth.

Some even think they can really buy a wife. It is called MOB.

However, in most cases it almost always will come out in the wash.

The bigger the age difference, the more problems arise. Throw in the culture thing and language barrier,,enough said!!!

Everyone has to make their own mistakes to learn.

... in response to Europete -- A question, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 19, 2002

To MarkInTx,
I am indeed planning to have children with the woman I marry, and as yet have not met any in Ukraine or Russia that do not wish to have children of their own. And I assure you I have given it a lot of thought, even going so far as to spend days together with a few friends who have children from near newborn infants to 8-10 year olds. I spent too much of my life working far too many hours, and have missed being with children and know it will not be easy. Like so many others, I have never liked dirty diapers but always changed them when I had to.
I always discuss with ladies what their interests and goals are with respect to a family; what they hope to have in a family, what they envision married family life being like, their relationship in the home, and many other related questions to try to determine compatability between us.
But then, isn't that what most of us do?

... in response to Re: Europete -- A question, posted by europete on Apr 19, 2002

Europete,

Maybe we're not in the same situation, but I'm late 30's and my wife is early 30's and I worry about being too old to have kids.  I imagine I will feel too old some days, if and when we do.  Still, I think that two adults can decide what they are comfortable with.  Just as an aside, when I was searching I also dicussed the "what if we can't have kids..." question, because there are couples taking fertility to bizarre extremes to make their own rather than adopt.  Just thought that might be an interesting thing to discuss, to find out if you are both on the same page.

... in response to Re: Re: Europete -- good luck with your ..., posted by HappyInBrazil on Apr 20, 2002


And, if I can make a quick commercial for adoption...

My daughter is adopted. We adopted her when she was 4 1/2 weeks old.

I cannot imagine life without her, and there is no way that I could love her more if "my blood flowed in her veins."

Those of you going to Russia and Ukraine actually have an advantage if you do end up wanting to adopt because there are many adoption agencies in these areas.

Many American couples are heading over there to adopt these wonderful children... and the agencies will give extra consideration to a couple where the mother is Russian (or Ukrainian).

So... please... don't look past Adoption as an option...

Commercial ended...

... in response to Adoption, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 22, 2002

Lady on my website called UkraineAngels seems to know how it is done and much cheaper than most.

www.geocities.com/eewife or ukrainianangels.com

... in response to Re: Europete -- A question, posted by europete on Apr 19, 2002


Hmmm... lemme see if I can do the math here...

You are 57.

If you found someone FAST, you probably won't have her here until you are 58... (and that is REALLY pushing it... since it doesn't sound like you have anyone in mind right now...)

Assuming you and she are REALLY fertile... you MIGHT have a child when you are 60... that is really pushing it, too... but...

So... changing diapers when you are 61...

Going through the terrible twos when you are 62...

Your child's first day of school when you are 66... it'll be nice that you are retired then... hey, maybe you can get a job as a crossing guard at your kid's school...

You will be 72 when your kid is out of high school...

The average male lives to be 80... so, when your child has graduated from college, you'll be in the retirement home.

Oh... and your 20 year old wife is 32 by this time and in the prime of her life.

You really think this is a good plan???

BTW... have you done a fertility test? Do you know if you even CAN conceive a child at your age? And... if you can't... what then? A sperm donar? How is that different than helping a woman raise a child that she already has?

I'm not saying don't do whatever you want... but I do think some reality is a good thing.

I have been a step-father... I can tell you... it's can be a real joy... you might be much better off if you considered a woman who already has a child...

Not trying to blast you... just thought a little perspective might help.

Of course... to each his own...

... in response to Really? Wow... Let's do some math..., posted by MarkInTx on Apr 19, 2002

What someone prefers is really no concern of your.  If you can't say anything good about anyone you should say anything at all.

What ever happened to manners.

... in response to Re: Markintx that's a shiit shot at pete, posted by wsbill on Apr 19, 2002

or agree that Mark came off a bit harsh but I'll admit that he does make a valid point about getting married in your late 50's and still planning on having kids of their own.

I think that Marks numbers add up pretty reasonable and I think it would be remiss not to consider the reprocussions of such an age gap and expecting to have children by the time a guy is already 60 years old.  Not to say it isn't physically possible but I am quite sure that parenting is a very active duty and what will be the result of having a woman of 32 who is in the sexual prime of her life and you are near 70 years of age.

I am not advocating that it is right or wrong, just that each man should really honestly think if this is the best choice and if this is really what he wants.  If after having closely pondered on this and he still feels the same then by all means pursue that.  Those are choices made only between the man and his intended bride.  Just consider ALL posibilities and reprocussions.

"Let the buyer beware"

PEACE.

... in response to Re: Markintx that's a shiit shot at pete, posted by wsbill on Apr 19, 2002

Come on guys, aren't we all going to the next Texas Appreciation of Russian Woman social next May?

I am, & would like to meet all of you folks, and hopefully without all of the "value judgements" thing going on, or is this turning into another drew vs jack thing?

It might be better to just let "sleeping dogs lie" where they are, without killing off each other you know.

Some things, are better left unsaid... or in the dark closet of confusion.

... in response to Re: Markintx that's a shiit shot at pete, posted by wsbill on Apr 19, 2002

Hmmm...

I thought I did that in the most polite way possible... And I thought I was very well mannered. Didn't call anyone any names... didn't accuse anyone of anything... didn't use profanity (even masked profanity, such as ...well shiit for example...)

And, I said that everyone is welcome to do whatever they want...

But... if you like taking a shot at me, shiit or otherwise... feel free.

... in response to Re: Re: that's a (shiit) Dr Laura shot a..., posted by BrianN on Apr 19, 2002

Markintx just sounds like the MoralMajority.
and
It's the way his message was delivered was not very tactful.

Why is there always someone out their who sez this is the only way it is done.  Maybe in mainstream america, but in these 3rd world countries where the older man really does have the pick of the litter,, it's no big deal.

It's not like Pete's reeling them in.  He said he's still single.  Think of it perhaps from a womans prospective.

Marry a wealthy guy who is seasoned/mature and will stand by her or marry some poor local guy, get knocked up and watch him walk out the door.  Who would you pick?

... in response to Re:  Whoever..., posted by wsbill on Apr 20, 2002

I must say, that I find it amazing to be lectured on manners from you, though...

I mean... there are a lot of guys on here who could certainly teach me a thing or two about manners...

But... Bill... honestly... considering the glass house you've been living in... do you really want to start casting stones?

Tell me... of your 1900 some odd posts... exactly how many have been about a woman's breasts, nipples, or some other horribly low-class gutter remark? Why, I can even remember comments about Victoria Secret catalogs, and Penthouse magazines, and Lord knows what all else...

I would love to see YOUR rules on what constitutes good manners sometime...

... in response to Moral Majority?, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 20, 2002

and who shot jr?

Lol...  Come on guys let's have a beer instead.

... in response to Where's PhilB when you need'em?, posted by BrianN on Apr 20, 2002

.

... in response to Europete -- A question, posted by MarkInTx on Apr 19, 2002

The women I have known that didn't want to have children also seemed to be that way because they were so self-absorbed.  (I would say selfish, but actually I think it's rather good for someone to decide not to have kids if they lack the desire to be a good parent.)  So then the obvious question would be:  Why would you want a mate with a personality such as this?

And granted, I am not intending to imply that all women (or people, for that matter) who do not have kids are self-absorbed.  There are many other circumstances:  some women have medical conditions that might cause deformities in their child, a few believe it isn't right to bring a child into this cruel world, others want the divorce to be easy once they get their green card, etc.