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Now,  I am not an expert.  But I have communicated with many nice Russian and Ukrainian girls.  Get it straight!  No self-respecting decent girl is going to ask you for a ruble.  Period.  In fact,  they will spend their money sending you emails and postal mail.  The agencies are of course going to try to get you to cough up some dough for emails and gifts etc.  The money corrupts it all.  They like your money very much.  And there are so many games--- that a new 1 is born each day...because of the money.  Take the money out of the equation and then you are talking with someone who really wants to know you.  There are so many nice girls there who write and speak English and have access to computers,  either at work or school or at home.  They are not with any agencies.  But,  they are out there.  The only time I ever encountered a minor scam---the agency ran it.  Money,  money, money.  A good, decent, self-respecting girl is never going to ask you for money.  Now,  if you are really in a big heat to throw some money around....give it to some babushkas...and their thanks will be real and sincere.

... in response to To all the scam threads below, posted by tim360z on Apr 11, 2002

Tim, I agree with one 100%.  I may just be lucky, I do not know. I decided to start wirting to a few more ladies for my trip over there just in case things did not work out for Mila and I. After reading alot here from the men that have been over there, I did not want to put all my eggs in one basket. Of the three that I wrote to, two of them had, after the third letter, wrote me and told me to write them at thier home on thier computer from now on.  They speak English and I have talked to one of them on the phone 3 times now. she has very good English.  The third one, that said in her ad that she knew English, still writes thur the agency, but the agency sents me an e-mail everyday asking me to pay for her e-mails.  This lady I do not trust yet, because they tell me they have to traslate her letter's for her, But in her ad, it told that she speaks english.
She has never ask me for money.

... in response to To all the scam threads below, posted by tim360z on Apr 11, 2002

I agree with what you are saying about the character of a woman who wants any money ie. run and run fast.  However, I think a good agency saves you time, effort and money.  In a short period of time when I have vacation from work I like to leave as little as possible to chance.

... in response to To all the scam threads below, posted by tim360z on Apr 11, 2002

Just my opinion only.

Without agencies that have been there, and done that, (scamming types or not), then how else would AM even initiate contact with RW?  (Or vice versa?)

Go through a russian phone book and send mail anonymously?  Hell, I wouldn't have ever imagined that I would be here now, if it weren't for a certain fsu agency, in nowhere land.

Of course, it IS about money.  After all, most people book cruises and full blown foreign tours through "U.S. TRAVEL AGENCIES", that get a cut of the commission, AKA MONEY, in some form or fashion.

The agencies, simply do one thing, and that is to make money, by providing a service.

Ever heard of the most common business forming necessity?  "FIND A NEED, and FILL IT".

That's what I do.  And I make money at it...

of course, then that makes me a scammer in the good old USA because I make a dime off of everyone else that buys crap from me, be it computer parts or leads on hot women...

Take the money out of the game, and there are no agencies.

Take the agencies out of the game and there are no women.

Take the women out of the game, and there are no men.

Then, there's some guy that comes up with an idea to hook up men and women... ummmm..... and make a living off of it.

Doesn't make him a scammer.  It makes him a capitalist.  We call that here in the USA, an honest living.

... in response to Tim, your view is really one sided I thi..., posted by BrianN on Apr 11, 2002

I hadn't read the board for 4-5 days and it was late last night and seeing all that supposed scam stuff... well made me a little grouchy before bedtime.  And I was not so clear.  I think many agencies are fine and provide very good service.  Some are nasty boiler-room operations where the staff not only translates---but writes the supposed letters.  I see nothing wrong with charging a good price for good service.

Also,  no guy should feel scammed because a few girls he wrote to---never replied.  Some girls get so many letters from so many guys that its silly.  Its like this...you saw the photo or profile of some girl on the internet and you thought you'd pony-up a couple bucks to write her...take a little chance.  Call it a gamble or your lottery ticket.  Well,  she never replies,  for whatever reason.  Probably she just wasn't interested in you and maybe shes already interested in a couple others.  No scam there at all.

I have absolutely no problem with the ethical agencies.  For many this should not be a do-it-yourselfer project.  And I did forget to mention that there are some ethical agencies out there...my mistake.

... in response to Yes,  it probably was., posted by tim360z on Apr 11, 2002

Tim,
Good post.  As usual I agree with your point of view.  I would like to add to your message on the volume of letters a girl may or may not receive.  I have read many posts here that tell about 100's of letters being received by fsu women.  I don't think a guy should ever assume that the girl is in that position.  A case on point: A very popular and honest agency tried a different approach four years ago.  They presented a handful (maybe 6 tops) of their English speaking girls in a special telephone promotion.  A guy could call the girls directly through a phone set up they offered.  Your call would go through the agency's phone system and then would be directed to the girls home via an extension number they assigned.  How much easier could that be?  Punch a few numbers into the phone and talk to the girl.  The girls chosen for this promotion were the best looking English speaking women in their agency.  Of course none of them were as breath taking as my Lena.  My thoughts at the time were that she was far too young, far too beautiful and that I probably would never get past a busy signal from all the calls she must be receiving.  As you say in your post, I took a chance and phoned her.  The rest is history as we close in on our 3rd aniversary.  Guess how many other phone calls she received? TWO!  I am sure glad that I was not detered by the logic of her being too busy for me.
KenC

... in response to Never assume, posted by KenC on Apr 11, 2002

keep both your feet on the ground.  Don't beleive or expect each girl you write to will respond to you.  Scammers will almost always invariably reply to you.  I think that if you can tailor your own "program" and be realistic and patient and objective that many guys would be pleasantly surprised with the results.  ie:  I have a friend,  a journalist who began this about 14 months ago.  A very pragmatic guy and somewhat successful and not really expecting great results.  But,  he was patient and realistic and almost methodical.  When he began,  he took it for granted there would be some degree of scamming going on.  I told him its part of the game...like if you are playing football...you are gonna take some hits and lumps.  Maybe it is part of the learning curve.  Nothing venture...nothing gained.  Anyway,  he did eventually find the girl of his dreams---actually she is far beyond his best dream.  He gets married in 2 weeks to a wonderful girl.  Yes,  she received countless emails...but in time she realized he was the only one for her.  So,  good things do happen.

... in response to Never assume, posted by KenC on Apr 11, 2002

Take the chance! Many people say don't go for the pretty girls. You never know what'll happen until you try. Many moons ago I wrote to one of the prettiest girls I'd ever seen. Things didn't work out in the long run but she gave me the most interesting year and a half I ever had.

I've had a decent response rate from the pretty girls. Some of them didn't get as many letters as you might think. Many guys are scared of the very pretty girls. I've found that many very attractive Russians aren't stuck up like their equivalents here. Some of the letters the girls did get were interesting and not in a good way. If you can write decent letters and aren't horribly disfigured you have a chance. It's working for me.

... in response to Re: Never assume, posted by Zink on Apr 11, 2002

Zink,
The fact that Lena's beauty didn't affect her personality was an amazement to me.  I have met AW with a whole lot less that thought they were Queen Bees in every way.  Early on in our relationship Lena made a great impact on me when she said, "OK, yes, I may be beautiful, but so what?  That doesn't make me any better than anyone else."  Hmmmm, can you ever imagine an American hottie saying such a thing?
KenC

... in response to very true, posted by KenC on Apr 11, 2002

I think my wife told me, or maybe I read somewhere that these pretty girls don't want to settle down with a man that is very handsom and the reason is they feel uncomfortable. I think they see them as people more likely to cheat, and also more likely to give them less attention. It's early and I'm not fully awake yet, so maybe I'm not correct down to the last letter of the word here. If you think about it and put yourself in their shoes wouldn't you suspect something strange in a very handsome man traveling there to meet a women? Or the answer could be that there are so many pretty women that they see themself as typical??If you want to see a photo of Inna and me you can go to www.cogwell.com ( it's a web page a guy started to build for us and suddenly disapeared before it was finished)Anyway you'll see that she's pretty and  I'm just average.( ok maybe I'm butt ugly but average sounds better)
Mike

... in response to Re: very true and it may have a reason, posted by Mike on Apr 12, 2002

Hey Mike,
You callin me a dog? (Don't make me kick yer butt) LOL.  Seriously, Lena has made the comment that because of all the good looking women in Russia, that she is just another one.  Where good looking women may be ho hum there, they sure stand out here.  She also had gone the "pretty boy" route before when she dated a photo model from Moscow.  She has said to me that that experience taught her that what was inside the man was much more imortant than the looks.  Good for me, I guess.  LOL.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: very true and it may have a reas..., posted by KenC on Apr 12, 2002

No Ken I didn't mean that you are a dog. Hell looking back at that post I'm not sure what the heck I meant! LOL. You're correct pretty girls are a dime a dozen over there. Actually my wife also looks at the inside more then the outside. ( thank god! )
Mike

... in response to Re: Never assume, posted by Zink on Apr 11, 2002

The girl I'm meeting in June was on Match.com; an absolute stunner.  While I did write her a lengthy introductory letter, I didn't really expect to receive a reply.  It had to be a scam or she's getting swamped with email, I thought.  To my great surprise, she wrote back several days later, having composed a lengthy reply that addressed almost every point in my letter.  She had spent 9 hours writing that reply to me!  Reserved and shy, but warm.  Within a week, she had voluntarily pulled her ad and stopped writing other men, essentially saying "you are for me".  In the weeks that followed, I discovered a modest, hardworking and funny personality behind those model looks.  It would never happen in the USA that a girl with her looks could be so genuine and modest.  And never a hint of looking for money; no "my dog died and I need $1000 for the funeral"! *smile*  So the moral of the story: You Never Know!!!

... in response to With The Prettiest Girls, You Never Know, posted by CornellGuy on Apr 11, 2002

Now that's a great story..

... in response to Re: Never assume, posted by Zink on Apr 11, 2002

Zinkster,
You got it right.  I have to admit that I never figured that things would go as far as they have with Lena and I.  In the begining, we were just friends.  I never pushed for more and our relationship grew from friendship into a great love in a most natural way.  Not that we are pessimists, but we were both realistic.  The biggest mistake from what I see here, is that relationships are put on a too unrealistic time table.  Couples don't really know each other until months after the wedding.  Take your time guys and enjoy the trip!
KenC

... in response to Tim, your view is really one sided I thi..., posted by BrianN on Apr 11, 2002

No agencies, you'll have a good time, and then you'll know what ways are best. A week or two shouldn't cost more then $2500 for everything. You will be wiser and educated as to how the life there works. Most of all you'll most likely get what you paid for and more.
Mike