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A few week ago, I posted about  the RW I have been talking to for two years now. How I just knew she was the one for me. well. turns out she may be one of the best scammers you have ever run across.  on friday, march /22/02. she messed up. she had told me she was not working with any ladies now in Russian to meet American men, but, she would be busy for the next two weeks with a friend of hers that she was going to help out and that she had some letters to write. well , I started doing some research. here is what I found out, I looked her name up in pal talk  and came up with 23 different accounts in her name.  can not explain why this was a red flag for me.  I wrote and ask her about this, she wrote back and said, I can't tell you everything. did not like this. so did a little more research. found 17 more accounts in her name in pal-talk.  she wrote me and  told me she was sorry for not being honest with me.  I do not feel I can trust her now.  She is telling me how much she loves me and  that I do not understand how life is there. however, she lied to me. and if they do once, then it will become a habit.  that's the way I fell. what about you guys.

I am getting ready to give her the direction to the next thing she can kiss

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

You know, It takes all kinds... but, a girl's gotta do what she's gotta do to survive, day to day, emotionally and financially.  If this girl's never had a chance in hell to meet anyone, and get serious with her, then you're going to see exactly what you're seeing.

Third world countries suck.  Economies suck.  Life sucks.  You do what you can.  I'm with Ryan on this.  Go there, and see her for yourself, then start to re-evaluate the red flags again.  They might not be as bad as you think.

I've stuck around for 3+ years here in the usa for a woman, (of course I'm a fool too), but if I were in Russia or Ukraine, I might consider holding out for six months to a year... but not any longer than that.  Afterwards, everything is fair game.  People do get worn out after a while and start doing their own thing -again-, because with so much time lost, it reverts to the simple game of life again.  

This is a two way street.

I'd definitely go see her anyway, just to see what happens.  You never know.  You've developed enough of a personal relationship over the two years, with enough knowledge about each other to at least give it a slight chance.

(and she actually paid you back for the scanner?  Sounds one hell of a lot better than ANY scammer report that I've ever heard.  This girl actually RESPECTS YOU!).

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

Terry,

You said that you found another guy she was writing to and you compared letters and they were similar. Was she professing love for him also? How did you find him?

I am starting to wonder how many of these women tell several guys the same thing to get them over and to meet them. I mean if most guys do not go, some may feel they have to do this. These to me would be the ladies who have a first agenda of getting out of their country. This is not good, or perhaps is not good. I am sure there are good marriages with women who wanted to get out of the country first and hope for the best with whom they marry.

However, it will be with these type of women that more failed marriages will result IMHO.

However. there is one odd thing here. You have sent her very little money and she has spent a ton of time on you. So, how much did she make an hour off you?  I would bet that it is almost non existent. So why would she spend this much time? She is either a nut, determined to get a foriegn man, or you could be high on her list - who knows, you could be number one and the others are alternatives.  However, I am with you, the lies are a problem.

... in response to Terry - I have a question., posted by thesearch on Mar 27, 2002

Sorry, one other thing, she told me she had to do what she was doing in order to pay for the internet service  so she could be with me each day. strange

She has also told me that many of these women get letters from men asking for nude pictures of them so they can see what they really look like. not thur e-mail as much as letter to the ladies home.

... in response to Terry - I have a question., posted by thesearch on Mar 27, 2002

I have a son that own's a hosting co. He is real good  at this. he and I got into a few of her rooms on pal talk while she was talking to another man.  From his user name , he was able to get his e-mail address.  I sent him an e-mail about it.  Now please don't ask me how he did this, I am not very smart when it comes to computer's, He is the one that found all the different rooms she had there and different e-mail address.

You may find this interesting. I am still talking to her. We were on pal talk for about three hours yesterday. she know that I do not trust her very much now, however still wants a relationship with me. I really am having a hard time understanding this because I did cause her a real problem with the other guys. Now she tells me she was just playing with the other guy. Told her it was not right to do that.

Now , I am not trying to defend what she has done. I do feel she is a good women. she has worked with hundreds of women there to try and help them find a husband. Here is what she told me. Most of the women get many letters from men not only from america, but other places. a lot from Germany.  Most only write two or three times and they never hear from them again. some have been writing  to men for years and have never had one come over to see them.  I could write a book on what she has told me about letters from over here to ladies over there. also about some of the thigns the ladies do .

It was quite sad yesterday on pal talk. I knew from time to time she was crying. she would try to keep me from seeing it. Oh, one other thing, when I sent her the money to get the web cam for her computer. she was very happy and could not wait to see if i really looked like the pictures I had sent to her. she had told me that some of the ladies had got picture of men that were 10 to 15 years old. they did not look like the picture when they got there.

I feel that the men that come to this board are very sincere in finding a RW. the one thing we do not know here, is how many men sit behind a computer and play with these ladies.  Now , I am going to get jumped on for this. She has told me many times that a lot of Russian women learned how to scam from american men.  What I am saying is , there are two sides to this.

I know this is long, I'm sorry, but this may help someone. she does not feel that she lied to me. here is how she explained it to me.  She lives with her mother and has a 20 year old daughter. her mother has to have medicine, but she does not tell her how much it cost her to get the medicine because it would upset her, she just keeps it from her. She really wants to be with me, but is not sure that will ever happen, so she keeps the doors open. she does not want to upset me so she keeps it from me.  She told me of a man that was writing to two women she knew that she was helping thur an service there and he was telling them both the same thing, he loved them and only them, etc.

Last, I ask her why after what had happen, she stills wants this relationship. she told me that the one thing she can say is I have allways been honest with her. even if she did not like what I told her.  Coming from her, there are a lot of women that just want a ticket out, but, there  are a lot of women that are really looking for true love also.

On the money, did sent her money, does not bother one bit. she could not live on what i sent her. but did sent a lot of gifts. On thing really interesting, I did loan her some money one time. It was more of a joke on my part.  she wanted a scanner so she did not have to pay to put pictures on disk.  she payed it back.  I tryed to tell her she did not have to, but she did anyway, not all at one time. when she would work as an interpeter. she would find an american man she could trust, write me a letter and ask him to mail it to me when he got back. she would put a little of the money in it.

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

Do you think you'll ever go see her?

Why don't you write a few and then 2-3 months later go a visit them.  Pick a city or region and follow through with your quest.

... in response to Re: The sad think is....you've been talk..., posted by wsbill on Mar 25, 2002

I think you missed the post  from a few weeks ago. I started writing a few ladies. Mila was never one that I wrote to. Mila would translate letter's for a lady I was writing there. It did not work out between her and I. A few weeks after I stopped writing this lady, I get an e-mail from mila explaining this and that she would like to writ e m e if it was ok. Mila was a very nice person. she would write me everyday. had her own computer. we were more friends, to me, than anything. she ask me one day when I was coming to see her. I told here at this time that I did not feel we would be right for each other. she was very upset about this and we did not write  for a while. but she would still send me e-mail on my birthday, etc. we started writing each other again about 6 , 7  or8 months ago.

 I really , at the time still looked at her as just a friend.  we know a lot about each other and i was getting ready to go there in June , this year.  she has a web cam, thatI sent her the money to get. we would get on pal talk each day and talk to each other.  we could see each other and talk to each other. I did start getting deep feeling for her, but never talk about love or anything like that. now she would . I knew that at one time she worked with a lot of women there writing to AM. She told me she did not do that anymore.  Which was no big deal. I could care less if she did  or not. about three weeks ago, I decided that maybe she was the one for me. I wrote and told her that I wanted to come see her.  she was one happy person . even told me she would have waited on me till she died. I guess that was good for the ego. But there was something that told me, be careful with this.  I was not writing to  any other lady, just her.  it is not the point that she is writing to other men. it is the point that she was lieing to me. never ask her, she would tell me this. up until two weeks ago ( or three weeks)  that was her business.

 She did get a little money out of me. no big deal. I sent the money as a friend, not a relationship at the time. I do have to say this, she is good:) I was a little mad yesterday. my ego got banged up alittle. but  after looking into this, she is good.   she does not run any ads she does not have to, she works with a lot of ladies there and when it does not work out, she just picks it up and write's to that person. I talk to a guy last night that is writing her also. we compared a few letters and they are alike. after getting over  the ego part, now it is a little funny to me, but sad also, she is a very smart lady. good English. computer. scanner, the works. and she is on it all day long. I think I will still write to her as a friend.

... in response to Re: Re: The sad think is....you've been ..., posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

Why don't you just get off your computer, get on a plane and meet her?  Have the names and numbers of agencies in her city and if things are horrible when you meet her, go meet other girls.  To keep on writing seems like a large waste of your time to me.  Additionally, it keeps you from meeting good girls - and the only way to go is to fly over.  If you snooze you loose.  Sitting behind a computer screen for years is snoozing.

... in response to Why not see her?, posted by Bobby Orr on Mar 26, 2002

Hi Bobby
I am going in June. Also , I am going to find a few more ladies  to meet while I am there.

... in response to Re: Why not see her?, posted by terry on Mar 27, 2002

Good luck.

... in response to Re: Re: The sad think is....you've been ..., posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

Just to totally verify you were writing to a lady and not some dude.

... in response to Re: Re: Did you ever use the telephone a..., posted by wsbill on Mar 26, 2002

also , will talk to her today. she teaches English there. when she gets in from school. I will get an e-mail form her telling me she is home.

... in response to Re: Re: Did you ever use the telephone a..., posted by wsbill on Mar 26, 2002

Sure did, many many times, talk to her on the phone sunday. she is who she says she is. I see her everyday, she has a video web cam and I do also.  I have seen her bed room, and all that is in it. that is where her computer is. we talk to each other, see each other about 3 hours a day. seen her mother, daughter and her daughter's boyfriend. her mother will walk up to the computer and wave at me.

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

Like Terry,

   I don't understand at all, pal.  2 years of communicating???  Have you been in-person with her?  Uuuummm!  Its really nice and all that she loves( says she does) you---but have you 2 ever been like together in reality.  Scam?  What are you scammed of???  How much time have you 2 spent together???  I really don't understand your post too much.

  But,   for openers...no good girl from there is gonna be telling you how much she loves you,  unless---well,  you are 1 heck of a letter writer.  Like in the Pulitzer arena.  And even then,  I would doubt it.  Thats more of in-person stuff,  than virtual stuff.

  Sounds like she's hooked on the internet...for whatever reason one can only surmise.  It sounds to me like you 2 have been talkin' for 2 years and thats about it.  So whats the problem???  I just don't get it???

 

 

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

Terry,

   I am ver curious what is Pal-talk ?   can you tell me more about it and where I can find it.

Thanks.

... in response to Re: I think I have a problem, posted by Cordobes on Mar 25, 2002

Tim pal talk is about like yahoo messenger. I had never heard of it. mila ask me one day if i had it. she sent it to me adn for the past year or so that is where we would go to talk. I think you find a lot of RW on it for some reason.  I really never look to see much about it. you can set up private rooms to talk in. I am going to look at it more. may be a good place to find them. Only use dit to talk to mila.

... in response to Re: I think I have a problem, posted by Cordobes on Mar 25, 2002

Text, voice, and pictures...assuming you have a keyboard, soundcard, microphone & speakers and a camera (if you don't have all that stuff, you can still use what you do have, i.e. you can still do voice and text and see the other people's pictures even if you don't have a camera). It has several hundred "rooms" devoted to various subjects from politics to music to looking for love to porn. You can communicate in a group or one-on-one. It's free if you can stand some pop-ups (not too many, actually) and still pictures. No pop-ups and real time full motions pictures you have to pay, but it's only about $3.00 per month. I'm not their shill, but it is a darn good product, I highly recomend it.

Go to www.paltalk.com and follow their instructions for downloading the pgm and signing up and (first time only) calbriating your speakers, microphone and camera.

I do consider this an "on topic" post, because they have several "romance" rooms, including Europe and Latin America (not sure about Asians, but probably they have them too).

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

A couple of thoughts!

First, if you have been communicating for two years, what is your relationship? If there is no formal commitment, then how can you say she is a scammer? Even if she says she loves you, how does she know you are ever going to follow through? Secondly, are you sending her money? If not, then how can you say she is a scammer? If not, then she is doing what I would do in her position - play her cards, and find a man that will follow through and commit to my future. Big scammer? I think not from what you have said. Little scammer, maybe! Maybe just smart!

Steve

... in response to Re: I think I have a problem, posted by Quasimoto on Mar 25, 2002

No, there is no formal commitment yet on my part. Now she has made a lot, which really should  have been a flag for me. She is  smart.  I have told her that I do not care if she works with other girls to help them find someone or not. but she would keep telling that she was not doing it anymore and did not want to. this is what got me to looking when I found out she was. she was really upset when she knew that I knew, so I ask her, why she just could not tell me the truth. she wrote me back and told me there was somethings she could not tell me because of the KGB. that was really funny. I will keep writing her, she is a lot of fun to talk to. but only as a friend. told her it could be no more than that now.

... in response to Re: Re: I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

She may think she is smart, but the KGB? Get real! It does not preclude my point, but she is also being evasive, or desperate!

STeve

... in response to Re: I think I have a problem, posted by Quasimoto on Mar 25, 2002

.

... in response to Agree     n/t, posted by DE on Mar 25, 2002

I have a question for the contributors; Why is it OK for a guy to write to 100 women, but it is only acceptable for each lady in this guys harem to write to him? It would be different if there was a commitment, but some guys disappointments really take me back! SHE is more at risk and vulnerable than the guy, and yet she is always seems to be made out to be a scammer. I have never even asked a woman if she was writing to anyone else. And now that I am engaged, it is the only time it is properly relevant as far as I am concerned. Is is insecurity? Or MACHO?

Steve

... in response to Re: I have a question for the board?, posted by Quasimoto on Mar 25, 2002

He just will not tell us so...  I don't have a problem with a woman writing to many others just like I do....  We are just friends nothing more, it is this that we all must keep our focus on... and believe me "MR. Givem the money himself" it is not easy sometimes....  Terry got sucked in but really if he just went to see her everything might still work out for the best.  YOU MUST GO AND MEET THEM! I myself am getting away from all the deep letter writing crap and it has taken me 2-1/2 years to get away from it...  Why do I learn everything the hard way.....  Oh well least I learn :-)

Ryan

... in response to I think ol Terry sent money....., posted by Ryan on Mar 26, 2002

Ryan
yes , I have sent her money, but it was more as a friend at the time.  really do not care about the money. if that is all i lose , hey great. I did start getting feeling for her.  I am a very hyper person. sometimes will not even stop to eat during the day. this is a lady that would write me every day from her own computer and tell she is worried about me because I do not take car of myself and she needs to be here to make sure I eat right. it is really funny now.

and I will still wirte to her, she is a lot of fun to talk to. but no relationship. told her that yesterday.

... in response to Re: I think ol Terry sent money....., posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

Yes I also send money as a friend "A whole bunch!"  As you it still does not bother me much...  I think you should just forget about her writing other guys, just be good with it and smile....  Blow it off..  Go and meet her in June... JUST DO IT!
Ryan

... in response to Re: Re: I think ol Terry sent money....., posted by Ryan on Mar 26, 2002

I still want to go over there in june anyway. don't really know if I will meet her or not yet. ha , I did just get an e-mail from her telling me good morning. She may not hav ewent to work today. it is a little early for her

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I think ol Terry sent money...., posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

I have two real good women friends in the Ukraine that I write to all the time.. (We are not involved just talking.. We help each other and are just friends)  This one I am talking to is just finishing up from working for one of the local politicians in Kiev...  She calls it a carnival.. LOL  I told her welcome to democracy.. LOL  Anyway she write with all sincerity the following:

American gives the ad that he is searching the woman for marriage, 70% of all calls will be from women who want not love but money and good life. You should understand it and it is quite normal..

Keep all this in mind...
Ryan

... in response to I think ol Terry sent money....., posted by Ryan on Mar 26, 2002

Again I think the translation thing is silly...  Maybe the first couple letter but after that use an online translator..(It is good enough in my opinion) But yes I can understand spending all that money on letter writing can create an attachment..  It's like an investment...  It's tuff...

... in response to Re: I have a question for the board?, posted by Quasimoto on Mar 25, 2002

and has more to do with some insecurity aspect.  Personally,  I do not have the time,  energy or desire to write anything to 100 women or 50 or 25 or 10 or even 3.  The couple I do communicate with---I expect that plenty of other guys have written to them.  And after awhile,  they loosen up and tell you about what they get in the mail.  Pretty incredible actually.  But,  there is no "relationship"  or "chemistry" or any of that stuff until you both spend some time together....anything else???  is just virtual.  Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

... in response to Re: I have a question for the board?, posted by Quasimoto on Mar 25, 2002

to say the least. Especially to expect someone to wait for over 2 years for someone that might never come to visit. Plus these women know that the odds are long even if the man does come, so...
Thus until your engaged it would be rather unfair to expect someone to be writing only you.

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

Hello Terry,

   Obviously I am no expert but I will give you my humble opinion about this with the intention of giving you another point of view.

   My first question would be if you have asked her "how many accounts do you have under your name" if she told you a number that is not the same as the one you find out about then she is a lier, but did you ask her this question ?    If you didn´t ask her I think she is not doing something wrong.

   I don´t know how to say this but for me it is a little strange that you have been in contact with this lady for 2 years and that you guys haven´t formalized your relation.  I am assuming that you guys have been together in several ocasion maybe you have visit her 4 or 5 times but for me 2 years is just too much time not to determined what is it that each one of you expects of the relation.    Again in my very humble and personal opinion I think that as far as you don´t completly formalized your relation with her your relation will not be solid enough and she will have the right to have as many accounts as she wants.

    I will see this as an isolated incident and make a recap of the good and bad things she represents to you and then take the decision.    I don´t want to sound like an idiot but there is an old saying that says that every time you are confused about a situation you should analized the problem with your head but decide with you heart.    What it is very clear in any relation is that with out respect things don´t work and if she is not respecting you and giving you a special place in her life then I see no future but if this was something that just make you feel uncomfortable or that make you feel second best maybe you should talk to her before finishing with a nice friendship.

    Obviously a good communication and mutual respect will always be the basic element of any relation.   But terry self respect is one of the basic elements of any man, we have to make others respect us and if they don´t respect us we don´t need them in our lifes.   I honestly think that nobody is indispensable and that we can choose the kind of people that we want around us so again if I were you I will ask her if she is capable of respecting your integrity as a man and if she will respect you 100 % of the time because what I see about this AM - RW   relations is that they are one sided and when a guy do so many things for the girl he loves it is natural to expect a little love and respect in return and when your lady dissapoints you it can really hurts.   because of this is that I think it is very important that you determined the kind of relation there is between both of you.

    Terry I am 29 and ended up with a lady from St, Petersburg almost by accident.    I had a girl friend at the time I meet her but my heart just told me that this lady was special and she really is.   So I finished my relation with the other girl and a few months later started a new relation with this Russian Lady.    In our case I was not desperate looking for a girl and she was not looking for a guy so when we started dating each other the first thing we make very clear to each other was that this relation was going to be very dificult because we are going to be half the world appart from each other and that we had no necesity to complicate ourselfs like this because both of us could date almost anyone we want back home si we understand that this relation had to be very special or it won´t last and it can not be a one sided relation because I will forget about her in 10 seconds so we decided to make the wish of having something special in our lifes and everyday we fight for this and with out been clear to each other about what we expect of the relation and without mutual respect our relation would be nothing close to special.

    I hope you take the right decision Terry and please remember that the bottom line is to find a lady that makes you feel special.   Take care and please have a nice week.  

... in response to I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 25, 2002

Some girls are just hooked on the internet thing and have fun with it, and some are just down right scammers. Whats your gut tell you? I'm married to one and from what I've learned, if she is saying the I love you stuff then that too would be a red flag. Typically it takes them a very long time to say these words with any meaning behind them, and some of them never say it, it is more important to show it then say it. From what my wife says these words are very very powerful and isn't used unless there is something there more then words could describe and usually that takes a longgggggg time of being together and proving all the many little things that are important in a relationship. Which isn't done 5 or 6 thousand miles away from each other.
Mike

... in response to Re: I think I have a problem, posted by Mike on Mar 25, 2002

Mike , I think it is a little of both, she is playing onthe internet, but when she can get money from someone , she gets it. I have give her some. no big deal. I never ask her if she was writing ot other guys, she is the one that would tell me  that I was the only one she wanted to write to.  If i wrote to another lady, I allways told her that I wrote to _____ in ??????.  she did not like it, but now I see it was just a part of the game she is playing.

... in response to Re: Re: I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

Have you considered that she seems to be willing to commit to you, but you seem to be unwilling to commit to her? (At least you seem to be willing to commit at this time.) Perhaps she is tired of waiting for you and has decided to move on?  In other words, it is not (or was not) part of a "game" for her - she wants a commitment and has concluded that she will not get one from you.

You sent a strong message when she tells you that you are the only one she wants to write to and you tell her about the other women that you are writing.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: I think I have a problem, posted by Richard on Mar 26, 2002

You are right Richard in that up into a few weeks ago, i had not make any commitment to her. and she may have decided to move on. But she is not saying that. Ihave got an E-mail from her allready this morning wanting to talk to me about our furture.  You know , I really do not think that  any of these others she is writing mean anything to her. the point is , now, she was not honest with me.  I do need to go see life over there. she keeps telling me  that I do not understand their way of life and that is why this is such a big deal to me. My thinking is, if she is not being honest about one thing, is there other things she is not being honest about. that is a lot of money to put into going to see one lady just to see what she is being honest about. so, may see her anyway, but i think I will see others while I am there also.

 Right now, it is her that keeps mailing me and asking me to forgive her and she stills wants to be with me and only me. how do you understand that. I will admit, there has been times over the last two years that I have not been very nice at times to her. not mean or anything like that. But she still keeps writing me and telling me how much she cares about me.  Just not normal to me.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: I think I have a problem, posted by terry on Mar 26, 2002

As I remember it, this woman started out as your translater.  This put her in a position to get to know you as she interpreted for you and the women you met.  These other women would have asked so many questions about you that she would get to know a lot about you.  

My guess is that, over time, she became quite attracted to you and developed some strong feelings for you.  Given that she is / has been helping her friends meet someone, she has met many men and has found no one that, in her opinion, is as good as you.

Given that you are looking for someone special, and she has become attracted to you, she has been hoping that you will develop similar feelings.  For reasons known only to her at this point, she seems to have decided to become more open to other opportunities.

That is my best guess.

Best wishes,
RIchard