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Ok, so I do the miserable (at least for me) 12 hour train ride to Odessa from Dnepropetrovsk.  Half the time I was wondering if I had done the right thing by leaving.  I mean, here is this great girl, who seems nuts about me, she's beautiful (at least to me.  If someone can tell me how to post some photos I would be happy to!) she's sweet, kind, very cultured, not sleasy at all and who knows I am leaving to go meet some other women and she doesn't say a word about it to me, no complaint, nothing.  I really respected that!

One poster asked me to tell more about her-  Well, she is about 5'5" and about 110 lbs, cute figure, gorgeous silky reddish hair, bright,  striking green eyes and skin like cream.  She even has nice straight teeth which is a major bonus and not easy to come by! LOL!  Just a totally charming and calm, even going personality..  Not volatile.  Very passionate, (I will leave it at that!), but I think this is common for FSU women.  They just don't seem to have the sexual hangups that many AM seem to have (I know, I'm a Psychologist!) LOL!  It's just such a part of their culture, to be so sensual and passionate.. Even the way they dance etc..

So, I get into Odessa in the morning and get to my flat, gorgeous for $40 per night.  5 minute walk to the main street Deriboska (sorry, spelling!).
The weather was all fine pretty much my whole trip really and Odessa was no exception.  The town is very charming, much prettier than Dnepropetrovsk or even Kiev in my opinion, but it's really a tourist town.
I did not have an ad run for me in Odessa because I had quite a few ladies I had corresponded with there.  My interpreter was a hottie, 5'10" slim cutie, but she was only 22 (I wouldn't consider that for me) and she has a boyfriend!  But she spoke good English and was nice.
I started meeting the ladies and again, many of them were nice, but I could not help noticing that MOST of these ladies were late for our meetings and I had about 3 that said they were coming and just never showed up at all, a big difference immediately from the Dnepro girls!

I met some nice girls, but no major sparking.  I kept comparing them to Alyona, wondering if they had anything over her..  Didn't mean to do this, it just sort of happened.  I had a few girls I was supposed to meet for just coffee and they just ordered full meals with all the trimmings, they couldn't eat HALF of the food they ordered and I have to say it kind of really pissed me off that they would feel so entitled, especially after my interpreter had said the meetings were just for coffee or tea..  But again, many of thewse women told me they had met MANY foreign men, and they seemed to expect it!

I was very excited to meet one special girl.  I had written to her and phoned her for about 4 months!  I was sure this was going to be something special!  Her name is Viki..  Well, we met at "The Steakhouse" on Deriboska Street my first evening.  It is one of the most expensive places on the street and is supposed to have some good American fare, but I didn't think it was that good really.  Certainly overpriced.  Anyway, we met there and indeed, she was quite pretty to look at, with a bod that would have melted a bank vault door, but in the first 10 minutes, I knew there was nothing there!  I just didn't connect with her at all!  I think she felt the same, it was just a real disappointment.

(ADVICE!)-  IF there are any guys planning to go right now who are only corresponding with ONE woman and you are only plan on meeting ONE woman, RETHINK!  I was sure I would hit it off with this girl, in our letters and by phone we totally connected, but in person it was a big fat zero!  I have heard this happening MANY times to guys..  So you have been fairly warned!  If you go and are sweet on one girl, great, but you better have a BACKUP PLAN in case there is just no in person chemistry!

Anyway, Viki and I had our meal, were polite to each other, it lasted about an hour and a half, and by the time it was over, I couldn't wait to get out of there and on to the next lady!  I know it sounds strange but I know this happens all the time to guys.  Can't imagine how destroyed I would have been if I had only come to see her!!  That would have been just the worst!

So, met more of the ladies I had corresponded with but nothing was hitting me..  Met some nice ladies and a couple of nightmares as well! LOL!

2 nightmare stories-  Ok, I had corresponded a few times with a Svetlana.  We were meeting for coffee..  She sat down and ordered half the kitchen!  Ok, whatever..  Then she pulls out her smokes..  I said "I thought your profile said you didn't smoke?" and she said "Oh, all the girls smoke they just don't say they do, they lie about it!".  Well, I knew this wasn't accurate but whatever..  Then she starts to light up.  Well, I had gotten a sore throat the night before and it was getting worse, so I told her about it and asked if she would please just not smoke at the table because it would bother my throat.  She laughed and said the she didn't like to do what people asked her to do and she proceeded to light up anyway!  LOL!  Well, I stood up and calmly announced that our meeting was OVER (a 5 minute record!) and asked the waiter for the check before her food had even arrived!  This all through my interpreter (she had also lied about her being able to speak English!).  The waiter gave me the check and I tossed the money on the table and walked out of the restaurant!  My interpreter followed me a couple of minutes later and she was thrilled I had done what I had done, feeling the lady deserved it..  She had stayed and told the girl that she was very rude and the girl said she didn't realize she HAD been, and that maybe she needed to work on that! LOL!

Nightmare 2-  Was to meet a lady on Friday night.  We had corresponded and she said she was very excited.  Lovely tall blonde creature named Victoria..  Well, my interpreter called the day before just to again confirm and Victoria told her that she needed to be out of town until Sunday night and could not meet me until then..  Ok, whatever..
So Saturday night, after a meeting, my interpreter and I are walking on Deriboska street about 9pm and here comes Victoria out of a restaurant with her Ukrainian boyfriend to use a payphone right in front of us!  LOL!  Well, I recognized her immediately and she did a double take on me and went about 5 shades of red! LOL!  So while she was on the phone, my interpreter and I just stood an laughed!  Later, my interpreter called her and told her how rude she had been and this girl said it was "complicated".. and then even tried to make it out somehow that it was MY fault! LOL!  
Anyway, I never got this kind of treatment from any girls in Dnepropetrovsk!

Part 4 next!

 

... in response to TRIP REPORT PART 3-, posted by Oscar on Mar 20, 2002

Good for you not letting yourself be abused or taken advantage of. Most guys would be ignorant that it was happening and if they did they would sit there and take it. It is because most men don't do what you did that there are so many of these women who don't think twice about using and abusing the foreign man. I have dumped a few on the spot myself. Hated to do it, but gosh, you got to respect *yourself* first.

... in response to TRIP REPORT PART 3-, posted by Oscar on Mar 20, 2002

As I read Oscars post a question came to my head. Instead of thinking more about it, I just decided to throw the thought out to you all.

This is a comment and question about opinions as to why Oscar would find the women from Dnepropetrovsk to be so much more polite than the women from Kiev/Odessa and what that really means.

To me, it is my observation and an interesting to me that people not uncommonly change along with their security issues while others do not. In other words as people become more secure they feel more free to show you who they really are and thus they are less inhibited to hide their negative side.

So, are these ladies in the cities where life is better and where more foreign men travel to more likely to show you who they are?

Obviously it would not make sense to say that the rude Ukrainian women simply decide to move to Kiev and Odessa while the nice ones are more attracted to Dnepropetrovsk.

So, I wonder how much of an illusion this might be?

Your thoughts?

... in response to Philosophical question to everyone, posted by thesearch on Mar 20, 2002

Hmmmm, this sparks a memory that mebbe someone here can fill in the gap.  There was a fella who sat down and figured out the human comfort levels.  They were something along the lines of survival.  So in other words you couldn't experience anything in a higher level until you met the level before it.  So the first is the Physical - Gotta eat, breathe, drink.  You acheive this, you live, and can start worrying about the next level.  The top layers started dealing more with spiritual issues.  You can't wax philisophic, until you are eating, breathing, have a few friends, etc...  At any rate, perhaps the level of hardship makes a difference.  

Size of the city makes a difference.  I grew up in Phoenix, and watched it go from 2 Mil to over 4.5 mil in pop.  Then I moved to Kalispell, MT 20,000 pop and lived for 2.5 years.  Now back 6+ Mil pop.  If you've never experienced it you can't fully understand it (although you can certainly understand it intellectually - I did - then I moved there and became aware - Get it?).  Kalispell was like a totally different country.  Not because they are hicks, in fact most everyone I knew was a transplant from a big city somewhere's else.  Phoenix was very different when it was smaller - friendlier.  Like someone said there's an amount of 'edge'.  Bigger the city - the bigger the edge.

Mebbe the U.S. is pretty unique in it's regional attitudes, but then look at some of the diversity in Canada...  Or Mexico with some of the economic diversity.  Sheesh, I know there's a difference in Moldova Vs Ukraine and they're neighbors.  This plays itself out on a smaller geographic scale as well.  Look at Southern California Vs. Northern, or Seattle, and anywhere else in WA....

Now tack on the spoiledness factor.  I think this is partly an experience factor.  An area with high exposure over a longer period of time will start to see a change in attitude.  I don't think there's any coincidence in the difference in behavior when you say this one met 30 AM, and this one met none...  Since there's a bigger market, you start picking up Professional Daters.  Women willing to go out with AM who come through town so they can fill their gullets.  AW do this sort of thing too... Heheheheheheheh...

Stereotypes and Generalities are a dangerous playground,  but something doesn't become either unless there's at least SOME proof in the pudding...

Clay

... in response to Re: Philosophical question to everyone, posted by Clay on Mar 21, 2002

Ref: http://www.accel-team.com/maslow_/maslow_nds_02.html

I too, grew up in Phoenix - though it was a bit further back than you did --smile--. Just FYI

- Dan

... in response to That Was Maslow's "Hierarchy of Nee..., posted by Dan on Mar 21, 2002

You have one life line left what will it be.

I would like to call a friend of mine up and see if he has the answer.

Ring ring, ring

Dan, I am here with a friend of yours who needs your help    ........................................      ..

Regis I think I will go with my friends answer.

You are correct for one million dollars!!!!!

... in response to That Was Maslow's "Hierarchy of Nee..., posted by Dan on Mar 21, 2002

lazy...to begin with.

... in response to Philosophical question to everyone, posted by thesearch on Mar 20, 2002

Greg,
I think your answer comes in two parts:
1)Women from larger cities will tend to have more of an edge to them automatically.  Think New York City girl vs. a gal from Seattle or Portland.  The smaller cities or suburbs will have women with less of an edge.  If you accept that theory, then if you add the fact that the "big city" women are savvy "agency" women, you are dealing with professional sharks.

2) Smaller cities will tend to yield a kinder gentler type of women (less edge).  Some of the smaller cities will also have agencies and that IS a factor there too.  An example could be made of Tver where Lena is from.  Tver is not Moscow, St Pete, Kiev or Odessa, but it does have a very active agency or two.  There certainly were some professional daters in Lifetime Partners.  These women were involved for the free dinners, gifts and attention with no real motivation of finding love.  Unless of course the right offer was made.  LOL.  My opinion is that interpreters are a very risky choice.  They have seen it all and know just how to "work" the mark.  I am sure there are good women that act as interpreters, but they are a big risk in my mind.

If I were to advise someone as to how to find a good woman in the FSU countries, I would suggest they do as Oscar did.  Run a personal ads in medium size cities (through an agency or not) and try to make a connection with women that are less tainted by the whole process.  I was more lucky than smart about this process when I found my sweetie.  But then again, I went to meet her because she is who she is.  I met other women to fill out the schedule.
KenC

... in response to Re: Philosophical question to everyone, posted by KenC on Mar 21, 2002

Ken,

I appreciate what you are saying. But, think about this one moment --- it appears to me that the whole process of AM meeting RW is evolving relative to the issue you have brought up.

I would bet that when this all first started that the city ladies were more like the women in the smaller cities relative to how they related to AM. Still maybe a difference but not as dramatic I would bet.

But, as time as taken its mark on all of this the ladies are changing. If heading for Russia/Ukraine for a decent woman continues to escalate - wise men might find themselves going to smaller and smaller cities to find the unspoiled and more sincere percentage wise.

... in response to Re: Re: Philosophical question to everyo..., posted by thesearch on Mar 21, 2002

Greg,
There is no doubt that the opportunity to meet AM has changed the attitudes of some RW.  The "newness" of it all has worn off in Major cities and even mid-size cities with active agencies.  People learn fast how to manipulate whatever system there is to their own advantage.  I think about how naive I was about this process 3 1/2 years ago and laugh now.  I had my street smarts and my experience with women though, which is much more important in the long run.  Unknowingly, Lena and I manipulated the system to both of our best advantage, but in a good way.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: Philosophical question to everyo..., posted by thesearch on Mar 21, 2002

9/11 and the stock market crunch.  A hithero growing market hit the skids.  Everything is down here--- which will of course ripple over to there.  And I doubt this whole quasi biz will ever hit the previous level of 2 years ago.  So some of the big city girls who trolled guys along amy...have to get married.

... in response to Philosophical question to everyone, posted by thesearch on Mar 20, 2002

I think it is more to do with more Western exposure.  Knowledge goes a long way.  In Kiev and Odessa - two combed over cities - they know everything.  In Dnepepetrovsk and other more exotic places many things are new.  The girls are less likely to have had experiences with Western men and you see them honestly.  Sorry, but alot of the exposure from Western men leaves them with bad impressions and it taints them.  The out of the way women are more wide eyed and bushy tailed if you know what I mean.

... in response to Re: Philosophical question to everyone, posted by Bobby Orr on Mar 20, 2002

On my last visit to Ukraine I spent some time in Dnipro and I met another American man who was hooked up with a cute young thing, but I found out later that she was a scammer and at the time he was planning to spend the rest of his trip with her.  (Poor guy)  My point is that no matter where you go you have a chance of running into either a scammer or perhaps some other girl who just wants a good time or whatever.

I do believe that cities like Dnipro have a lot less of the professional scammers but it still doesn't protect you from insincerity or the fact that they might have some unrealistic expectations about Americans.

Just the same I still agree that Dnipro is still a relatively untapped source of sincere ladies.  But my advice would be to do plenty of homework if you plan to visit this city.  I would recommend to place an ad and write as many ladies as possible as Dnipro doesn't have an abundance of marriage agencies and it can be more than challenging to arrange dates from a marriage agency once you get there.

Even access to the internet was quite a challenge and the internet speed was painfully slow.  Once I got logged on and had access to a marriage agencies site, I found that they only had very few ladies on thier site and I was greatly disappointed by this discovery.

Another funny thing about Dnipro that was different from Odessa and Kiev is the abundance of Jewish temples there.  Much much more than in both Odessa and Kiev put together.  I wondered if they had a much larger population of Jews living there.

... in response to Re: My visit to Dnipro....., posted by Oatmeal on Mar 21, 2002

Oatmeal-

You are correct about the Jewish question in Dnepropretrovsk.  THere is a large Jewish population thee and they still have old parts of the city where they have old jewish buildings that are a few centuries old!  It's pretty cool to see..

You are also correct about there not being a ton of agencies there.  I think this is a big plus but you are right, a guy MUST run some personal ads there and do it a good month or more in advance, or run one 3 months in advance to get some ladies to write to and then run it again a month before you go to get more ladies if needed.  My problem was just running my ad too late.  Even so, I had 30+ calls to my interpreter about me, they just couldn't get their photos in to her in time..  But it seems I lucked out anyway! ;-)

Oscar

... in response to Philosophical question to everyone, posted by thesearch on Mar 20, 2002

go there and throw the dough around.

... in response to Philosophical question to everyone, posted by thesearch on Mar 20, 2002

My take is sort of different that yours I feel that cites like Kiev/Odessa get allot more men like us trying to court them etc.  I feel that they just sort of go threw the motions and play the game. (They are hip to all this stuff) They do it because they might either happen upon a guy that will put up with her and cater to their every whim or she might get lucky and she feels a spark and everything ends up good.  I just feel there are more agency in these cities and the women are getting allot of bad impressions or experiences from guys like us that they think it is all a big joke.  They are smart and know how to play the game and it is a great way to pass the time or go out on the town.  Yes this is a generalization but I think it might happen more then we think.

As I agree with your security issue I think it is in a state that we are thinking more about than they are.  I mean I met a very poor family etc. I have to say they were very secure in their life and happy even though they really had no future or a foreseeable one anyway.  

... in response to Philosophical question to everyone, posted by thesearch on Mar 20, 2002

My thoughts-

I have been to Moscow, Kiev and now Ddnepropetrovsk and Odessa.  I believe that many of the women most men meet are from agencies.  When they are in the high tourist areas, I think that with meeting so many foreign men, some of the girls get pretty spoiled and beging to EXPECT to be spoiled.  There are good girls in Odessa and Kiev, but I didn't happen to meet them as much as I did in Dnepro.  I also ran an ad in Dnepro where I did not in the Odessa and Kiev areas.  Many of the women that write to personal ads are not in agencies and scammers will rarely go to the trouble of answering personal ads.  So for me, the answer is two fold-  The ladies in Dnepro have not been spoiled by many foreign men and the ladies I met there were mostly because of my personal ad and thus, not with agencies that sometimes fill their heads with a lot of crap!  Some of the women men meet from agencies have been in agencies for YEARS and I think it almost always has a very negative effect.  I think these women often become very cynical..

My 2 cents.
Oscar

... in response to TRIP REPORT PART 3-, posted by Oscar on Mar 20, 2002

You can set-up a photo page @ http://communities.msn.com they have a photo center and you can put quite a few pictures on very easily.
And I totally agree about the 1 woman thing. I knew in less than 5 minutes that we had no chemistry and had no other ladies to meet. But I met 1 anyway when my agency played matchmaker and things have worked out great.
Looking forward to seeing your pic's and the rest of the story...aloha

... in response to TRIP REPORT PART 3-, posted by Oscar on Mar 20, 2002

I know most of the posters that are still on the board after Patrick's house cleaning are nice people, but there are plenty of people who read these boards who don't post.  Someone tried to infect my computer with a virus because of an association I had with someone on this board and on other boards I have heard of a person finding out who someone is corresponding with and trying to destroy that relationship.  Please don't post her photo or link to it.  Just email it to those you *realy* trust.  BTW, I'm not a paranoid person...if that is what you are thinking...lol.  I'm actually a psychologist as well.  I'm getting my doctorate in School Psychology.
Ben

... in response to Don't post her picture...some people hav..., posted by Ben26 on Mar 20, 2002

Hey Ben,

I don't know, maybe that's good advice about not posting her photos, I don't know.  But as this girls is not on any sites or agencies, I don't know how they could really affect her, you know?  But I'll think about it..

Thanks,
Oscar

... in response to Re: Don't post her picture...some people..., posted by Oscar on Mar 20, 2002

If you post her picture, I would bet that she does suddenly end up on some websites. Anyone can steal a picture from the web, paste on a fake profile, and start sell an address (any address).

If you do post a pic, make it one of both of you.