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My wife made a new friend out here a week or two back.  I had posted a request for any Russian ladies in my area, and I got contact information for a lady in a nearby community.

After a couple of emails back and forth, I finally got Marina to call her.  "But what if we have nothing to say?  We'll just sit there awkwardly waiting for each other to speak," she argued.  Still, I impressed upon her to at least make an effort.  So after a couple of abortive tries, she finally got ahold of the lady, named Oksana.  I wandered off the the other bedroom and fired up the computer and started a game of Sim City.

Four hours later, they finally hung up.  Not bad for having nothing to say!  Marina and Oksana are supposed to call each other again this afternoon.  I have to smile as she spent most of the morning talking with her best friend back in Iowa.  I suspect another 2 or 3 hour call is in the works as I write...

Socializing your wife with other Russians can go a long way towards combatting homesickness.  It can also be a problem for you, if your relationship isn't solid.  I've read posts and emails of others who mention that introducing your lady to other Russians can make your life much more difficult.  I think the key is if your relationship has honesty, trust and respect as its foundation, you will not experience the difficulties as much.

BTW, for the age police, Oksana is around 26 and her husband is around 53, they've been married for 5 years and have 2 children.  She's still madly in love with him and they sound like they're very happy.  Of course, I've found out that Marina and Oksana do have one thing in common, besides large gap marriages.  They both have shaved a few years off their husbands' ages when talking to family and friends back home.  I think the public perception back home is still pretty important to them...

As always, this is simply my 2¢ and strictly my view from the sidelines.  Your mileage may vary...

... in response to The socialization thing..., posted by John K on Mar 14, 2002

My wife's first year here was pretty rocky, too. For about 6 months, she would hardly leave the house without me - It was almost certainly the language thing. Even though she took a year of lessons and can converse with me very well, she found there is a big difference between speaking English and UNDERSTANDING English. Those first six months were pretty rocky times. Lena and I are both old enough to have let 30 some-odd years of life as single people carve a nice comfortable rut for us - Breaking out of that wasn't easy, oddly I think it was easier for her than me. There was crying, silly fights, boredom, homesickness on a scale I didn't think possible. After she got into a routine here, life smoothed out considerably. Very helpful was the  internet; I have broadband, so Lena was able to watch the evening news on TV6 Moscow if she got up early enough. Email kept her busy, as did online TOEFL preparation and ICQ with her best friend Tanya back home.

The friends didn't really come until last summer I guess. A friend of mine introduced Lena to a UGA researcher who is now Lena's best friend here. A remarkable person and excellent friend, Maya is our hero.

Later, Lena just up and wrote an email to the head of the Slavic Languages department at UGA - Much to our surprise, Dr. Krasnoshokova immediately stepped into the picture to introduce us to every Russian speaker in town - It's a small (but cosmopolitan) town, so it didnt take long. The good doctor is always there if we need anything - again, a fascinating person and person impeccable character. Maya and Dr. K have been our conduit for meeting all kinds of people.

Getting back to the language thing, I really think it is the single biggest problem you face - most issues an immigrant has here are influenced by it in some way. What a relief it was for Lena to *finally* be able to sit down with someone over tea, and discuss an issue *in detail* with another person. Lena and I discuss things, of course - but I can imagine how frustrating it must be to have an intelligent, sophisticated thought to convey and be limited to the vocabulary of a 10 year-old. It would drive me nuts. Having someone to speak with in Russian let's her discuss all of those female things that I can't help her with. When Lena first got here, it was up to me to help her with ordinary things that guys just assume women can do for themselves - Finding a brand of makeup she likes, whats the difference between Kotex standard and Light Days, which toothpaste is best, What the he11 is "pro-vitamin B enriched" shampoo? I guess I'm a better man for knowing these things, but someone else would have been a better guide.

All things considered, I can divide Lena's experience here so far into two distinct major phases: Pre and Post-Driver's licence. Once she got that car, she became a different person. Confidence and happiness increased tenfold. Like I told her: "It won't really hit you until you realize that you could just drive all the way to Panama if you want." I taught her myself and I must say I am proud of the results. Get that licence!

Well gotta run workday is over heh..:)

... in response to They will come, posted by Ken W on Mar 15, 2002

Ken,
You bring up a lot of good points for the guys here that have yet to bring a lady here.  You have to walk a very fine line of being their only support system without becoming too over bearing.  It is like raising a child that matures in 6 months.  And they sure will let you know that they don't need your help in the areas that they master.  I was lucky to have an adult daughter help Lena with the basics of American female hygene products and such.  Lena seemed to be very well versed with most of the products already.  Maybe she just read a lot of lables.  My wife started driving almost immediatly upon her arrival.  As she says, "to not drive in America is like having no legs in Russia."
KenC

... in response to They will come, posted by Ken W on Mar 15, 2002

I tought my wife to drive and she impressed me with how far she came along in a short time. The first time behind the wheel she was in my dads yard and I thought to myself "this will take years!" 3 months later she passed her driving test and 2 weeks after that she was driving 25 miles each way to work. Things were going well even though she was always a little scared when driving, then one rainy day she panicked and slamed into the rear end of a new SUV! ( it's hard to stop suddenly when you are giving it the gas and the breaks at the same time! )Anyways that's what insurance is for and I told her that anyone can have an accident regardless how good of a driver they are. Now she is slowly coming back to the point where she left off as far as confidence is concerned but it's taken months to do so. My point is from the begining explain to her that life goes on, and wrecking a car is a part of the chances everyone takes when driving. I feel if she had been confident and comfortable she would not have panicked and would of been able to think what her next reaction should have been.
Mike

... in response to Be sure to stress to your wife that acci..., posted by Mike on Mar 15, 2002

...it is coming, for sure. You are right, it's going to be traumatic. But, about a year ago the had the dubious pleasure of watching me in Atlanta as I tried to share space with a pickup. It was a good experience for her, as she saw how to behave, what the cops do, and how the insurance process works. She had assumed that everyone would get angry (thanks again, Hollywood). Of course we also had to go to Traffic Court in Atlanta - she couldn't get over the fact that grown people play with little toy cars in court..:P Again, good experience.

Lena is a *painfully* careful driver. Which means I worry less about her when she is alone, but it makes me crazy if I am the passenger. Heh it seems that drivers are a little like horses - young ones you have to constantly hold back, the older ones you have to kick up ..:)

P.S. I don't count the neighbor's mailbox or our recycling bins as collisions, exactly..:)

-Ken Williams

... in response to No collisions yet, but..., posted by Ken W on Mar 17, 2002

A lot of relatives ask about us, so I put hese on the web a few months ago. Beats trying to send attachments all the time.

http://webpages.charter.net/kwilliams00/pictures/pictures.htm

-Ken Williams

... in response to Oh BTW I have some pictures up if anyone..., posted by Ken W on Mar 17, 2002

As required for a spy, your wife is beautiful, but what,
she didn't know how to drive,
was not a good shot,
and didn't know English when she came?
What kind of a spy is she?

... in response to Oh BTW I have some pictures up if anyone..., posted by Ken W on Mar 17, 2002

Ken,
Thanks for sharing them, very nice pictures, and you have good reasons to be a very happy man!
Wish you the best!

... in response to Oh BTW I have some pictures up if anyone..., posted by Ken W on Mar 17, 2002


Thanks for sharing, Ken :)

Peace,

-Deckard

... in response to The socialization thing..., posted by John K on Mar 14, 2002

That's great story, John.  I had a similar experience.  A few weeks after my wife arrived in the U.S. we were buying a bicycle at Toys R Us and a young salesman with a Russian name helped us.  After talking with him and getting his phone number, Tania called her a few days later and since then they talk almost on a daily basis and our family has become very close friends.  It's been easier for her to make friends in Washington - we have a wide circle of local Russian friends now - because of the large # of Russians, but I would encourage anyone in this process to let your wife meet people like this.  In addition, while you're waiting for your K-1, you guys should explore the local Russian culture.  As John's story shows, even in Iowa there are Russians, and you can help your wife's assimilation to American by laying the groundwork for this.

... in response to Re: The socialization thing..., posted by Charles on Mar 15, 2002

My sister works at a WalMart in a smaller Iowa town.  There are a sizeable number of Russian workers there, some who don't appear to speak English.  It makes me wonder if this happens at other WalMarts as well.  I really don't know the WalMart corporate culture, but it makes sense that it wouldn't differ too much from store to store.  Perhaps someone else has any idea if this might be true?

... in response to The socialization thing..., posted by John K on Mar 14, 2002


John,
Think about if the tables were turned.  I know that after spending my time with Russians almost entirely on my first trip, that I was very eager to engage in conversation with ANY American.  I offered a guy $20 for his USA Today newspaper at the airport in Moscow!  LOL  That was how starved for American news I was at the time.

My wife, Lena, is like Marina in that she is some what shy at first with other Russians.  She has made some friends here with local Russians/Ukrainians, but really has no one "good" friend.  Again, as you look at this through a different perspective, how many "good" friends do you make in a lifetime?  Many acquaintances but few "good" friends.  These girls really do have a difficult time starting their lives over from scratch.  No matter how good the relationship is between the two of you, she has a tremendous burden to carry.  I can only imagine how much more difficult this burden would be without at least some basic English skills.  (Something for you other guys to think about.)
KenC

... in response to Re: The socialization thing..., posted by KenC on Mar 15, 2002

The whole point of my looking for local Russians is go get her out and socializing.  We're pretty insular here and we don't socialize.  While I have lived the life of solitude before, my wife has always been a social creature.  I've noticed that my wife grows depressed if she has nobody to talk to.

As far as friends vs acquaintences go, I'm not worried about which she makes, as long as she has someone to talk with.  An acquaintance can always evolve into a friend, if the situation develops.  Marina is fortunate, in that she is learning what friendship is all about.  She compared my friendships to those that she had and she is now "trading up" to a better quality of friends.  She finally realized what real friends should be like, instead of what she originally had.

It's interesting to watch as Marina makes new friends.  They are the ones who still call, even though we have moved halfway across the country.  Her best friend is Iowa, another close friend is now on the east coast somewhere.  Her "friends" back home have now become acquaintances, as she realizes now that their "friendship" was more abusive than friendly.

As time passes, Marina grows into her own woman.  This is difficult for her old friends and family, who saw her as a pliable girl.  She doesn't bend to their wants and needs so easily now and it doesn't please them.  I've given my wife the freedom to become who she is, within reason.  (I don't let her smoke.)  At times it becomes comical, like when she found out that she really enjoys soul wrenching heavy metal, much to her surprise and concern.  At other times, the change is much more subtle, and at the same it impacts profoundly on her self image.  All I do is provide occasional guidance or explanations, and ask an occasional soul searching question or two.

As she develops, Marina's friendships develop too.  She now has a better class of friendship than before, and has better luck seeing the real person behind the face.  She also socializes much easier, even if her initial fears are still the same.  She is also a much more interesting person for her friends to talk to, despite her protests of not being a very interesting person.

For me, I am pleased to see her make new friends, as it continues to help her adjust to her new life here in the US.  With each new friendship here, her ties to America become stronger and her acceptance grows.  Marina's adjustment hasn't been easy, despite my best efforts to ease her worries and make her feel at home.  Acceptance is something that has to come from within, and internally there is still a part of her that refuses to let go of her life back in Ukraine.  It will take another year or two before she finds herself a visitor back home, instead of the returning prodigal child.  Once that settles in, her life here will take on more meaning and she will adjust more quickly.

As for now, I'm just biding my time and looking for more Russian people for her to talk with.  She started studying her English books and Driving manual again, so I'm taking that as a good sign...

... in response to That's why I'm trying to get her to soci..., posted by John K on Mar 15, 2002

Just dropped by from the Latin board for a look around.

I think the personality of a guy who goes all the way to Russia to marry a women is a guy who takes life by the horns and tries to make things happen for himself.  It's a guy who is used to problem solving in his life, and generally doesn't sit back and let things slide by.  He looks for solutions.

When my Russian wife arrived, I had her on the fast track to independence.  I thought the sooner she became independent, the sooner she would be happy and well adjusted.  I tried to help her find friends,  driving almost immediately, gym membership, college etc. etc. etc.

Later, I found out that she resented me trying to help her find friends.  She thought that I was over controlling.  She said that finding a good friend living in her country with millions of people was difficult, and the chance of me being able to find her a friend with the few Russians in my community would be difficult at best.

I also thought that keeping her busy would take her mind off homesickness.  Well....all the activities that I created in her life eventually took precedence over our marriage, and I began to feel like someone who was just around to facilitate her good livin.

So, my take on all this is sit back and let her put her own life together.  Be supportive and help if she ASKS, but don't get too involved in all the little details.  Things will take much longer if you don't get involved, but there is plenty of time in the large scheme of things.  All you have is time in the future, don't rush anything.  Let everything happen at it's own pace.  If you get overly involved, you could help her to become real independent in 6 mos to a year, if you let her figure it out for herself, her self esteem will be higher, she will respect you more, and it might take 2-3 years.  Downshift now and don't rush a single thing...

My marriage to my Moscow wife lasted 3 years.  She slowly grew from a sweet pretty girl, to an opinionated stubborn cold women that I had no interest in spending the rest of my life with.  She was highly critical of all those around her and never acknowledge her own shortcomings.  An all around real bore.

Most of us don't spend much time with these girls before we drag them over here.  There is some luck involved.  You hope that you are going to like your newly evolved Americanized wife when she is done adapting to society here.  I didn't.

I couldn't go back to American women after being spoiled rotten by my wonderful Russian wife. (1st 2.5 years anyway) so I am now married to Latin American girl.  I learned alot the 1st time around, and I'm now applying what I learned.  

The scary thing is that sometimes the most logical obvious solution to a problem with one of these Russian women is not the best solution in the end.

Most Russian women are highly independent, and intelligent.  Let your wife figure things out for herself...it will be better for your marriage down the road.  Don't try to socialize her and don't over control.  Let her take responsibility for her own development and friendships.

Wayne

... in response to Re: That's why I'm trying to get her to ..., posted by Wayne on Mar 15, 2002

nt

... in response to Re: That's why I'm trying to get her to ..., posted by Wayne on Mar 15, 2002

Wayne,
Thanks for taking the time to post your story.  I am sure that it will help many.  Like I tried to say in the post above, we have to walk a fine line.  Try to help, but not too much.  Give her as much freedom as possible, but be there to help pick her up when she falls.
KenC

... in response to The socialization thing..., posted by John K on Mar 14, 2002

Bottom line...like everyone, they hit it off or they don't.
The common background and desire to converse in their native language is very important. Breaking the daily routine also is. Keep posting....
Karl

... in response to The socialization thing..., posted by John K on Mar 14, 2002

I was worried about a 20 year age difference.  Maybe not such a big deal with a lot of women.  You guys are not confirming the fears the trolls try to put in our heads.

... in response to Wow, posted by BubbaGump on Mar 14, 2002

Most women aren't interested in significantly older men.  In my case, Marina has a thing for older men.  In Oksana's case, it was simply a case of two friends setting up their respective friends on a date with each other.  Oksana and this guy hit it off and the rest became history.

As I mentioned before, both Oksana and Marina have shaved a few years off their husbands' ages when talking to family and friends.  While they may say it's no big deal, somewhere it is.  Oksana a few years later admitted what her husband's real age was, but initially the concerns over what friends and family might think overrode the need for honesty.  I suspect that Marina will eventually 'fess up to my real age, but for now, only her mother and grandmother know how old I really am.

As far as keeping up with the younger woman, the key is a good diet and lots of exercise.  If you're carrying around 40+ pounds of excess fat and you don't exercise, you are going to end up on the sidelines before long.  If you maintain a healthy diet and exercise, you will keep up with that sweet young thing and perhaps even outlast her.  It's simply a matter of willpower and common sense, guys.

What is a bigger concern to me, however, is the larger age gap marriages have broader cultural gaps between them.  I love Jazz.  Marina can't understand it.  Marina is more energetic and a real go-getter.  I'm more laid back and reflective on life.  Luckily, we have enough similarities between us that the differences can be worked around.  It's a matter of give and take.  With a larger age gap marriage, you are going to have to be prepared for a lot more give and take.  That, and you are going to lose a lot more sleep...

As always, this is simply my 2¢ and strictly my opinion and experience.  Your mileage may vary...

... in response to It is a concern, though, posted by John K on Mar 15, 2002

John,
I did LOL when you posted about music differences with your wife.  We have a "gap" in our musical tastes too.  I like Lenny Kravits and U2.  Lena loves Nataly Cole and Frank Sinatra.  LOL.  So what is a guy to do?
KenC

... in response to everyone is different, posted by KenC on Mar 15, 2002

Get that girl a wheelchair and a handicapped parking sticker!  Start stocking up on baby food.  I guess we don't want to listen to Frank Sinatra because we've heard him so many years already.  Maybe she likes old music because she can at least understand the words.  Yet another sign of old age.

... in response to Wow, posted by BubbaGump on Mar 14, 2002

That is one lucky guy to get a lady 27 years younger than him and keep her happy for five years and have two children.  Wonder what his secret is.  Wonder if he will still be able to keep up with her when she hits her peak in her 30s.  When she is 35 and horny as a man, he will be 62.

... in response to Yeah, wow!, posted by Ramblin on Mar 15, 2002

N/T