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Hey Everyone!
This is my first post – I’ve been sitting back watching everyone and reviewing some of the archive (but it’s so big and has so much JUNK…)
The most amazing thing I see is how many people have nothing better to do than to come here and try to harass people.  What a bunch of losers….  Everyone has to try to make the most of their life and what works for one person may not work for another.  Why cast dispersions at someone else for doing something a little different?

Anyway, I’m thinking about actually finally writing to one or two of the girls on First Dream.  Would anyone like to suggest any other sites?  Yeah, I know this has been discussed forever and I have looked at most of the site listings (albeit briefly).  Most of the sites give me a creepy feel.  They just don’t seem REAL.  I guess it’s the professional photos that scare me.  I’ve worked with people who had “glamour shots” of their wives on their desk.  Then I actually meet the wife – they may as well have someone else’s photo on their desk.

How long do people usually write before meeting?  How much money does it wind up costing to go to a city or two (airline/travel/lodging/meals)?  I’m thinking Odessa, Ukraine, but who knows where this will all lead.  I know these are newbie questions but I can’t find any reasonable approximations in the archive.

So far I’ve learned…
Don’t send money (and no decent RW will ask for more than a very modest sum)
Give the impression that you have only modest financial means
Have a backup plan when you visit
Pick a girl that knows English

Yeah, I know – write to quite a few girls at once.  I got a problem with that one, though, cause I’m a terrible liar with a terrible memory.  The two compliment each other nicely HAHA.  I think I’d have to stick to writing a girl or two and then plan on going to agencies if it didn’t work out.  Besides, I think it would take an enormous amount of energy and effort to adequately keep in contact with a number of women.  I think I would be better off concentrating on one or two.  Quite frankly, this is something I’m thinking of trying.  It’s not something I’m yet ready to commit a substantial portion of my life to.  Maybe I will feel different later but at the moment I feel kind of reserved.  Doesn’t anybody else feel like this?

I suppose I am one of the younger people here.  Is anybody here younger?  Is there anything in particular I need to watch out for because of my age?

My biggest worry (besides scammers) is that I wind up with a RW that has no sense of financial responsibility (wants to buy everything).  My Army buddy brought a Korean girl (he met her while stationed there) over on a fiancée visa and she went berserk.  She acted like he was rich and couldn’t pass a store without finding 5 or 10 things she wanted right then.  I think (hope) she was the exception when it comes to foreign women.  Luckily, he sent her back at the end of 3 months.

Speaking of which, does most everyone follow the pattern:  write, then phone, then meet in FSU, get a fiancée visa, get married in the states?

I know there’s a few other things I wanted to ask but I can’t think of them now.  Any questions for me?

Later,
John

... in response to A Newbie Speaks (kinda long...), posted by unsure on Feb 18, 2002

I just wanted to say that you are probably doing the best thing not writing to too many ladies.  I kept separate e-mail folders for each lady and thought no way would I screw up but I did and almost had her stop writing me.  There are so many common names and they never use their last names in the e-mails, often change their e-mail address, and their city and country abbreviations are also similar on the e-mails.

... in response to A Newbie Speaks (kinda long...), posted by unsure on Feb 18, 2002

Hey John, It's great that you actually did your homework before asking your questions.  Here's some answers but all answers are approximate.  

1) Good places to start are European Connections, they have 2 web sites,  A Foreign Affair and Firstdream.  Foreign Agencies I am aware of that seem to be honest are E911 and IKAR.  

2) How long do I write before meeting the girl?  I would say about 2 to 4 months.  Girls don't want to wait a long time because few men actually visit.  Before you visit the girl, verify her phone number by calling her and you can use Firstdream to find out if she actually exists at the address she gave you.  You can send her flowers or chocolates so it doesn't look so suspicious.  It does take a lot of time to write many women and I think they can tell when you're not focusing on them.  Make a effort to write good letters because I have noticed Russian girls put a lot of effort into their letters.  

3) How much will it cost to go to Ukraine?  Airfare would be about $600 to $1600 dollars.  You can use Yahoo travel other other web sites to get the best price.  To get the best price, book at least 3 weeks ahead of time.  Prices may go up sharply in the summer.  I think a apartment will cost maybe $50 to $80 a week depending on location.  For daily expenses, about $60 a day, but if you need a translator, about $110 a day.  Find out where the ATMs are in case you need more money.  You can find them at banks and major hotels.  Translators are about $5 an hour.  

4) Nervous about whether you should do this or not?  Understandable, because it's hard to commit to marriage when you're not absolutely sure.  You have the added barrior of communication.  For what it's worth, I think communication is overated.  I always wished my wife would just shut up, but did she? Of course not.  Most of my fear of marriage was caused by my horrible experience with my American wife.

5)  Afraid your UW/RW will spend money foolishly?  That was a big reason I divorced my first wife.  Ukranian women think $60 is a lot of money and they spend it more carefully judging from what many posters have said.  

6)  What pattern is typical?  Write, meet, bring her to the states on a 90 day K-1 visa, then marry her or send her back.   You could go on a tour first before writing but that's a waste of money because you're going to have a hard time connecting in 10 days.  You could easily end up with nobody.  

I hope this covered most of your questions.

... in response to Newbie Answers, posted by BubbaGump on Feb 19, 2002

They would be:

Firstdream
Scanna
Lifetime Partners

If I had settled on a given geographical area, my choices might vary.

Everyone is different...

... in response to If I were to pick three agencies, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 19, 2002

Lifetime Partners had KenC's vote was it?  They were the other agency I was trying to think of.  

Scanna was bought by Anastasia and I don't trust them.

Firstdream has lots of supporters on this board so they might be a good choice for travel but their selection of women is more limited.

European Connections has a lot of good women but I have noticed that among the scammer pages, very many of those women have appeared in their catalogs.

... in response to A Newbie Speaks (kinda long...), posted by unsure on Feb 18, 2002

What is so remarkable in foreign men in Russia - is HOW MUCH they r scared......ffffffffffffff.......they r so much conserned not to be anybody's fool that look rediculous :(
A girl, who speak english well enuff has lots of possibilities to earn her own living, but dunno bout the Ukraine
Financial responsibilities - you'll be surprised, John - we all have no idea of what economy is, dunno how to keep the savings coz never had them ;)
COz for years and years we got used to spend all money we have, and what's even  more important, ECONOMY sounds humiliating(dunno why, really) A hear it every day from very different women - that they r so abused that they have to (watch pennies).....
Why don't you look at a nice girl next door,  John?
To be really loved, respected and cared you must be at least GENEROUS......otherwise you'll be used in commercial purposes and rejected afterwards - when the female doesn't need your support
Take care
LARA

... in response to Re: women do not love stingy cowards any..., posted by Lara on Feb 18, 2002

Here is a real life example of that "generous" phrase.

In USA, it means not stingy. Not a tightwad. Not a penny pincher.

What thinks you?

... in response to Achtung RW!, posted by WmGo on Feb 18, 2002

not that important what the definition is - more a feeling; a sincere person with open eyes and mind, decent, respectful.......the one you may trust enuff to go to his country or invite to yours. The one you won't feel humiliated being dependent 4 a while and when you r not dependent anymore - none of you will feel the difference The r few, but so happy. Russia is a fair country in this respect - you'll get what is on your mind.

... in response to Re: Fire RW!!!!!!, posted by Lara on Feb 19, 2002

Are you going to let the Muscovite Madam have the last word? Did you see what she said: "Fire RW!" She wants to fire you from the board! And you were here first!

It is time for the FSUW to take off the gloves and tell us what they really think!

Is "generous" an innocent word when used by a FSUW, or is it a red flag???

Is Lara's response a smokescreen, or a genuine part of the feminine Russian soul?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Spasiba balshoi.

wmgo

... in response to Russian catfight? Attention RW!!!, posted by WmGo on Feb 19, 2002

WMGo,

sorry to disappoint you. It was not catfight. In all the movies we used to watch about World war II, Germans would always say "Achtung!", "Fire". Fire as in starting shooting from your riffle, not getting fired....

I don't think generous is a red flag. There is expression in Russian when you can say that a person has a generous soul, which means that the person is very kind and open. Plus it is one of the words which everybody can give different meaning, so you really need to ask woman what she means. But usually it is someone who does not count every penny.

Best regards to inquiring minds,

Russian Wife

... in response to Re: women do not love stingy cowards any..., posted by Lara on Feb 18, 2002

I think that being generous means a lot more than just spending money on a woman.  My wife and I live within limited means and there are times we don't have the money to do the things we want.  While she is disappointed, she doesn't hold me personally responsible for her unhappiness.  Life is not always what we dream of, after all.

Generous means a lot more than just money.  Generous means giving your time, your understanding, your patience, and your best and most gentlemanly behaviour so as to make her happy.  Granted, spending money on your lady certainly helps, but I've learned that the $10 bouquet in the grocery store has as much meaning as the $50 floral bouquet from a florist.  A $5 stuffed animal from WalMart can mean as much as the $50-$75 Steiff or Gund stuffed animal from a specialty shop.  I don't mean to cheapen the experience, but why go overboard when it doesn't seem to make much difference.  Save that money and spend it on something that the two of you need or want.

Having said that, I will say that men should expect to spend a considerable amount of money to help your lady get settled in.  I've found that redecorating expenses, as well as new furniture and a major enhancement to my wife's wardrobe were pretty much necessary to getting my wife to feel more comfortable with life in America.  Of course, having lived a bachelor's life for 37 years, my apartment was nothing to write home about.  My wife has forced me to upscale my lifestyle to something much more presentable.  My only grief is that I miss parts of my old lifestyle.  Most of my beloved books are now in storage, as well as a bunch of other things I haven't been immediately using.  Men should expect such changes and be prepared to deal with them, mentally and financially.

As always, this is simply my 2¢ and strictly my opinion.  Your mileage may vary...

... in response to Generous = Money?, posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002

Maybe I should clear some of this up.  The whole idea of me not being generous is laughable.  I suppose the "stingy" thing came from one of a couple of my comments:

(1)  My belief that I should de-emphasize any finances when beginning a correspondence is intended to ward off scammers and those women who are only interested in monetary gain.  Obviously, I would not seek to continue this once I was married.  And I never stated anything about lying about this.  Founding a relationship on lies would be a mistake.

(2)  My friend's fiancee was truly out of control.  It is perfectly natural that she should be excited about the new shopping environment and that she should want to go to malls, etc.  The problem was that she couldn't understand why she couldn't buy everything she wanted (right then!).  He spent several hundred dollars on her the first 2 or 3 days she was in country.  It became obvious that he was going to have to get her to understand the value of money.  So he gave her another $300 and told her that she was going to have to budget that money and decide what to buy but that she wouldn't get more until the next month.  Mind you, he was still paying for meals, movies, etc.  She had this money JUST for shopping.  Well, she spent the money in 2 days and then called him stingy cause he wouldn't give her more.  And I haven't EVEN touched on the subject of the new cars that she thought he should buy her.  The saving grace there was that she couldn't decide which Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, etc. that she liked best.  Does this bring things into perspective?  The funny thing is that she was 26 and he said she never acted anything like that in Korea.  Go figure.

Later,

John

... in response to A Clarification, posted by unsure on Feb 18, 2002

If you pretend to be someone else in any sense - finance, morality, attitude - how will you give a chance for a RW to love YOU? A friend of mine was a pen pal with a brit - love-love-love - invited the guy here-everything was ready -but he mentioned he has another girl-a pen pal 2 meet in Moscow - and she cancelled all the trip- coz the feel of disgust was total coz you take a few girls to choose between.....i agree with her - that's disgusting to come here and make a contest

... in response to Re: why don't be yourself?, posted by Lara on Feb 19, 2002

I agree with you in general.  Maybe I'm just paranoid.  But after reading some of the women's profiles I get the impression that some of them have unrealistic expectations.  Of course, it's hard to gauge this because I'm sure some of the agencies help with the wording and I'm sure most of the women are intelligent enough to know what men want to hear.  I guess I figure if you keep a woman's expectations a little lower it is better.  Not because I truly wish to mislead her, but because I wish for her to have a realistic view and not be disappointed.  Maybe I will feel totally different when I write to a woman.

Keep in mind that for me this is all speculative at this point.  I haven't actually written to any women yet - I'm currently trying to decide who to write to.  I'm taking my time and thinking it through because I don't intend to write to a bazillion girls.

... in response to Re: Re: why don't be yourself?, posted by unsure on Feb 19, 2002

Good luck!

... in response to Re: hope you'll find HER, posted by Lara on Feb 19, 2002

you look nice,  John, and r quite a russian favourite type :D You have very good chances, i would say.
Enjoy your writing to women- you may contact me in Yahoo under Lara_cccp - if any help required

... in response to Re: Re: hope you'll find HER, posted by Lara on Feb 19, 2002

Thank you!  I truly appreciate your encouragement.

... in response to Generous = Money?, posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002

Not the money.  Its the time and the care and the patience and the understanding.  We guys can equate "generous"  to money.  It is more the time and the care...it is the little things which impress a woman so much.  That you think of her.

... in response to Generous = Money?, posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002

Hey John,

I had to smile at your post, because it does remind me of the stress we had last year about the state of our current abode.  It was very difficult for me to accept that my Grateful Dead tapes were not going to stay in racks nailed to the living room walls.  In fact, I did not even realize at the time how unacceptable it was to have all of the walls in your house painted white.

On the other hand, I have never met anyone more clever than my wife at actually doing the work.  Painting, wallpaper, making and hanging curtains, all were done better than if we had it done professionally.  I get a lot of surprised compliments from friends who remember how I lived before.

My advice would be to plan on $200-300 a month on this aspect of life, if you are not starting with much except a clever wife.  As with the clothing end of things, the best favor you can do yourself and your budget is to help her find good stores and good sales.  It wasn't easy for me at first, since I am a non-shopper, but once we found which stores had good stuff at good prices, things went much smoother.

Take care,

Steve M.

... in response to How Your House Will Change, posted by SteveM on Feb 18, 2002

My place hasn't changed to much so far because it is decorated in American Indian/south west ( you know )I think it may be that she was cought off guard by my place having a theme??

Geeze I was hoping no one would mention the shopping word and I could have kept her thinking that AM aren't allowed to go shopping with their wife ( tradition ) When she reads your post later I'm gonna get it!
Mike -- who would rather go to the dentise then go shopping.

... in response to Generous = Money?, posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002

I fully agree with your definition of generous :D

... in response to Re: women do not love stingy cowards any..., posted by Lara on Feb 18, 2002

I am not so sure about this post.  I met a lot of Economists when I was in Ukraine.  Economy exisited in FSU and I also considered most of the Ukrainian Women to be realistic about financial responsibility.  It is a question of how and where you spend your money.  SAVE MONEY WHERE YOU CAN AND SPEND IT WHERE IT COUNTS - ON YOUR LADY..  You can not buy love.. but you can rent...:)) In the end if she is serious she is going to wnat to know that you will both be conmfortable in your retirement and can afford to educate and raise a family..  If your into just the good time then your only there to party...  Have fun.

... in response to Stor..., posted by jj on Feb 18, 2002

jj,

Why do you reply to an obvious flamer?  What's the point?  After all, that's what they want.  If you examine the content of the post to determine its intent, it's clear that there was no sincere desire to learn something or be helpful.  It's best just to ignore ignorant people.

John

... in response to Why do you reply to an obvious flamer?, posted by unsure on Feb 18, 2002

.

... in response to Stor..., posted by jj on Feb 18, 2002

well, we have never had any idea of retirement savings :( you'll larff but the only savings peeps make ( i mean MANY peeps, almost everybody) are for their own funerals :(

in theory women may say you everything, coz they r afraid not 2 meet your expectations

... in response to good in theory, posted by Lara on Feb 18, 2002

That writing style is just, oh so familiar.  Did you go to the Kiwi school of English composition?  Learn to write girl.

... in response to I think your name must be Lara Spyke!, posted by BubbaGump on Feb 19, 2002

Bubba.

I was in Kiev last October. I work in the computer industry. While in Kiev I met a guy working at a local Internet cafe that spoke great english. He was interested to learn about the computer industry in America. He offered to be my translator just so he can have practice with English. So I used him as a translator when I needed one.

The point is he self studied English. He learned it from Movies and TV. He was a younger guy (21ish). He English sounded similar to Lara's. A lot of coz, U, ic, and tons of slang.

Spyke is not the only one to talk like this.

MNKen

... in response to A Newbie Speaks (kinda long...), posted by unsure on Feb 18, 2002

You can spend it on better things...

Try forst the Free listing...  and some of the user pay sites.

dateing.ru
kiss.com

there are many more... Many of the women listed on various sites are also on dating.ru.  You will need translation but again you can use the internet to help here too.

... in response to Save your money, posted by jj on Feb 18, 2002

Ok, I've checked out the dating.ru site.  It seems pretty good.  So I found a woman who's photo and description I really liked.  And I just tried to send her an email and got it returned because the mailbox is full.  I really shouldn't be surprised by this, eh?  I'll try resending the message later.  I kind of wonder, though, if I will ever get through.  She's been listed for 6 months and I would think by this point she is involved or would be fatigued to the point of never wanting to see another email.
Anyway, I suppose this is the natural result of giving out free addresses.  EVERYONE is likely to write the attractive (or even not so attractive) girls since they have nothing to lose.
I'm just wondering if I'm wasting my time trying this.  Have you actually written to the girls in the free section?  Do you get through most of the time?  Yeah, I could pay the $50/month but that defeats the save-your-money premise.
Did I miss your point?  Am I supposed to post a profile of myself on the site?
I do appreciate your help.  I feel like I'm learning a lot going through each little step of this process.

... in response to Save your money, posted by jj on Feb 18, 2002

I checked out this site.  It seems rather interesting.  Then I got curious and checked out the section of men.  Omigosh!  What are most of these people thinking?  Dressed in T-shirts, with the worst expressions on their face, etc!!  Or worse, with no shirts or tank tops!  I'm not ragging on these people for their looks - just the fact that so many people took so little effort to make any sort of good impression.  The contrast is striking. Even the "freebie" women are mostly dressed in some sort of elegant or pleasantly feminine attire.

I sincerely hope I'm not describing anyone on this board and I doubt I am since being on the board requires some minimal effort in and of itself.  Is there something I don't know?  Are all these guys putting these photos there to avoid scammers?  Or are they all lame and clueless and just don't know any better?  I guess I should have read some of the profiles to see but I was in shock just browsing the photos.

I've always thought that you should dress so as not to look out of place with the person you wish to attract/be with.  I guess I expected to see a bunch of guys in business suits (and a few were).  Or maybe a shirt and tie.  Mind you, I didn't browse but about 10 or 12 pages - I figured this was a representative sampling.

Are these the sorts of guys/photos these women are hearing from?