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Title: living costs russia, ukraine Post by: gmb79819 on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ok, i'm thinking about living in dnepropetrovsk based on my visit there last year. i know this is sort of a daunting task, but i'll definately appreciate your help.
i have a few questions and i hope maybe someone here might have some info: hey thanks in advance for any info you can give me on the living expenses. Red Title: Re: living costs russia, ukraine Post by: Mike on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to living costs russia, ukraine, posted by gmb79819 on Feb 18, 2002
No trucks in Moscow that I ever saw. If you're not pulling our leg then try shipping your truck or buying your truck in another country and drive in ??? If you make it across I would bet someone would want to buy it from you for the big money! Mike Title: Re: living costs russia, ukraine Post by: Lara on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to living costs russia, ukraine, posted by gmb79819 on Feb 18, 2002
Sorry, ,i know nuffing about Dnepropetrovsk :( maybe the price of the petrol is about 7/8 RUR per litre (0.2 cents) Title: Re: living costs russia, ukraine Post by: DE on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to living costs russia, ukraine, posted by gmb79819 on Feb 18, 2002
Hey Red, In all the trips I have made to Ukraine, I have yet to see a pick-up truck! Much less either an American or Japanese one. When women asked me what kind of car I have, I could not explain that to them much less show them an example of one. They just don't have those beasts there (at least I never saw any). Good luck finding one of those puppies over there. I did see one older (1980ish) Corvette. Parts would be my biggest concern. You would definately attact a lot of attention if you had a pick up with them big tires and raised body where you needed a step ladder to get in. LOL Title: I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine... Post by: John K on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: living costs russia, ukraine, posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002
Don't know if it's the same in Russia, but a lot of the Ukrainian police/military patrols in Kiev ran around in SUV's. While I didn't see any pickups, you might be able to score a SUV. Otherwise, buy it here and ship it overseas. Pretty expensive that way, but at least you'd have it then. Of course, you'll spend all your time worrying about it getting stolen, and if it breaks down, you'll spend a lot of downtime and money to get it fixed. Personally, I'd probably buy a Lada or some other cheap Russian/Ukrainian variant and save the money for something more important. But to each their own... Title: Get a VW...European Cars are readily available as are parts,, nt Post by: jj on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM Title: Re: I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine... Post by: DE on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine..., posted by John K on Feb 18, 2002
yeah, I saw a lot of SUVs. Especially the Land Crusiers, some Jeep Cherokees, a few other Japanese ones and of course European ones. A few Chevy Blazers as well. The problem with taking one over there is their import fees from what I am told are quite high. As high as 100% of the value of the vehicle? Heck, I thought about shipping over an older Cadallic or Lincoln Limo as I have never seen any of these there. Thought it might be a good business venture for transporting the mafia types around in style as well as airport pick-up for guys going over (kind of part of the VIP service). Title: Parts - You Need to be Thinking "Parts" . . . Post by: Dan on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I did see a lot of SUV's in Ukraine...., posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002
Fully-assembled vehicles have quite a high important duty/fee structure - whereas "parts" can be fairly reasonable. The challenge is to find that threshold between what constitutes "parts" and "vehicles" - if you catch my drift --smile--. - Dan Title: Actually. . . Post by: DE on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Parts - You Need to be Thinking "Pa..., posted by Dan on Feb 18, 2002
I just recently got a lead on a company in Kiev that is looking to import American and Japanese passenger cars into Ukraine. They are looking for an American distributor or dealer to export the cars. They are looking for used cars in the 2000-2001 model year not to exceed $23,000 USD per car based obviously on mileage and condition. They are seeking a long term business relationship. The company is a private company with an annual revenue of 8 million USD and 150 Ukrainian employees. Got the lead from our good ol US Government! Currently corresponding with them to develop bid proposal. Title: Be careful......... Post by: Lynn on February 21, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Actually. . ., posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002
A few years ago one of my friends got involved in a business deal in Russia to import used American/Japanese suvs with a company that had virtually the same MO as the one you just described. He and two of his business associates went to Moscow, spent a week and about 5K each only to discover the deal was not as sweet as said. They had no idea about the mafia being involved. It went from as workable deal to the demand that at least ten vehicles worth at least 25K each be recieved in port and another ten in transit before any money was transfered. When they showed signs of backing out their "partners" started taking a strong arm stance in trying to force the deal. My freind and his partners basicly told them what they wanted to hear and got the heck out of there and broke all contact once they got back home. Frankly, I think the whole thing scared the crap out of all of them. Title: Caution . . . Post by: Dan on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Actually. . ., posted by DE on Feb 18, 2002
Not to put you off, but more than a year ago I learned of a couple of similar 'opportunities.' It seems a number of young Russian (or Ukrainian) guys/gals attending university in the States wrote a term paper on the topic, and it drew a LOT of attention. Unfortunately, what many discovered is that the 'hard' industries (such as automobiles) is rife with corruption and heavily-influenced (or controlled) by organized crime in collusion with government agencies. I wish you luck - really. Just please be careful. You can lose more than just your money in this particular endeavor. - Dan Title: all businesses are essentially run by the mafia here Post by: odeccaman1 on February 19, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Caution . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 18, 2002
some cities are less corrupt than others but in Odessa one must have the local "big bandeette's" OK to operate any business at street level. Also you have no recourse here should a deal go sour even if your contracts are perfect, the court system is a joke. An American guy driving around in his pickup will spend more time along the side of the road paying the militia than driving, that is at least until the truck is ultimately stolen. Quite simply the government is incapable of governing the populace and by default the job fell to local mafias as they were the only "organized" group available to keep the peace. Title: Re: all businesses are essentially run by the mafia here Post by: Ramblin on February 19, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to all businesses are essentially run by th..., posted by odeccaman1 on Feb 19, 2002
Yeah, that's what I thought and it's really sad. When I was in Kiev, I asked one of my interpreters: If Gorbachev and Yeltsin could abolish Communism, why couldn't they abolish corruption and the Mafia? His answer was: Who do you think got Gorbachev and Yeltsin elected? It was the Mafia that got them elected! I've been thinking about this problem a lot and the only solution I can think of is either an intervention from God or some serious law enforcement crackdowns like occured against Al Capone in Chicago. You guys also need a fierce IRS collecting taxes and confiscating assets of those that don't pay. An agency like our feared Internal Revenue Service would do wonders for your country. Title: people making $40 a month are Post by: odeccaman1 on February 20, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: all businesses are essentially run b..., posted by Ramblin on Feb 19, 2002
are simply not willing to put their lives at risk to confront organized crime Title: Re: people making $40 a month are Post by: Ramblin on February 20, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to people making $40 a month are, posted by odeccaman1 on Feb 20, 2002
Exactly. That's why Ukraine needs to collect more taxes to pay the police force and other government officials enough not to be corrupt. And without it being corrupt, there would be more foreign investment which would bring in more money to Ukraine and more tourists and more money. But instead, you have just the opposite cycle with money staying away unless it's corrupt money. Title: Kiev Post article says a different thing: Link Post by: BarryM on February 19, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: all businesses are essentially run b..., posted by Ramblin on Feb 19, 2002
http://www.thepost.kiev.ua/main/10534/ -blm Title: Interesting Article. Notice That Not A Single Interviewee . . . Post by: Dan on February 19, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Kiev Post article says a different thing..., posted by BarryM on Feb 19, 2002
Was a Ukrainian official nor of Ukrainian/Russian heritage. It seems to me that the particular audience they interviewed had a strongly-skewed bias (and vested interest) in encouraging FDI. So do the Ukrainians - so I wonder why they did not interview officials. Wanna bet they tried and were unsuccessful with getting anyone to go on the public record? Barry, Kyiv Post - while a useful source of information for the expat community - is far from the sort of newspaper that anyone would count on for making significant investment decisions. It's always seemed to me to be a bit of a cross between a fledgling English-speaking newspaper and a British-style tabloid - often opting for sensational or 'fluff' stories. Interesting at times, and marginally useful at others - but hardly a serious journal. As an aside, the better online source would the "The Day", found at this link == http://www.day.kiev.ua/DIGEST/. I particularly enjoy Prof. Mace's regular articles. His commentary is always 'spot-on' with my experiences there. Be patient with the page loading - it is spooling off a server in Ukraine - and on a connection that is none too speedy. - Dan Title: Kyiv Post of little value to one living in Ukraine Post by: odeccaman1 on February 20, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Interesting Article. Notice That Not A S..., posted by Dan on Feb 19, 2002
it is like some idiot who has never traveled to a country telling a guy who lives there how it is. From what I have seen the Kyiv Post seems to have extensive coverage of the local whores, brothels & gentleman's clubs for men with no social skills much like a tabloid. It exists because there is nothing else. Dr. Mace has the good articles in "Den" part of it because his articles are the only ones in really good English, other articles can be good but are not translated all too well. Title: Re: Interesting Article. Elections should prove interesting. Post by: jj on February 19, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Interesting Article. Notice That Not A S..., posted by Dan on Feb 19, 2002
I wonder if the US practice of paying TIPS could also contribute to the "I expect payamt" mentality. I know that many of you who have grown up with the expectation of paying and receiving tips for what is essentially part of your job anyway. I recall a situation where I once helps an american tourist to change their flat tyre. Now I was a starving student at the time, but I felt offended to be offered a tip in echange for my assitance. On one occasion I decided to pay twice the price for an item on sale by a street vendor as I was appauled at the poor rate of pay for what was a long hard days work. Looking back at while I thought I was assiting this person the fact was that I was alsoflaunting my wealth in what rightly could be seen as an act of charity... in some ways this was an insult. Tips are mainly paid by American tourists and it becomed the norm after awhile when every one expects a foriegn tourist to pay for service. Now I am not adverse to paying a tip but Americans tend to over do it. On one occasion I saw an american gove a local Ukrainian a one american dollar.. I think they where of the impression that this was of significant value to them... It may have been but if you hacve ever tried to cash a worn/used one dollar bill in Ukraine?? It was beyond a joke and in many ways an insult. WHat is needed in Ukraine is a fair wage for a fair days work... But this must apply to all and not just the few. The exhcange rate for the Ukrainian currency to teh US Currency has been one of the most stable in the world over the last two years.. But the reality is it is proberly undervalued and the US Dollar over valued. It is a chiken and egg situation... The article in the Kiev post was good and I think up todate as to the thinking of many foriegn practices, Things have been changing and attitudes also... Just look at the practice of Immigartion visa control... slowly sure but they are improving.. The forthcomming election will be of considerable interest as it will point the way as to Ukraine's future... We should watch this develpment with much interest. Title: Thanks for the link. Post by: BarryM on February 19, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Interesting Article. Notice That Not A S..., posted by Dan on Feb 19, 2002
I noticed that the KP has a lot of puff pieces. It also doesn't update on a regular basis. I don't look at it too often, but I was glancing at it the other day when I saw the article. -blm Title: Pay attention to stories offered by Post by: BrianN on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM ... in response to Caution . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 18, 2002
Import/export brokers experienced with countries like Nigeria also.... Title: Re: Caution . . . Post by: DE on February 18, 2002, 05:00:00 AM |