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Yesterday we got  a big letter for 25 pages from some crazy guy who thinks that he is God... He lives around here, everybody is afraid of him, they think he is dangerious. So, he found article about our marriage in newspaper (march issue of 2001) and was writing to us this huge letter for all this time until yesterday. He sent it to the Jeff's office, his boss called us and told all about it, because he didn't know our address, but he still knew from newspaper where Jeff works.
We were too busy to read it yesterday, we gave it to read to Jeff's mother before we went out to the restaurant for dinner, we droped Alek for babysit, after she had read it, she said that we should call to police...
This morning, Jeff wanted to read this huge letter (looks like a book) before he calls to police, but he said that he doen't think that he can hurt us, he just wrote to us how many times he was in prison, that nobody wants to listen to him, because he is talking about the God all the time, he thinks he is Jesus...he also wrote something about how much he is surprised about what happend to me and Jeff (I mean how we met).
He went nuts, because his son killed his wife, now this dude in the jail, but his dad is still walking aroud and bothers people.
Jeff thinks that we just have to ignore it, because if we would call to police and tell them all, it would piss him off. I don't want to piss him off either, but I am still kind of scared. I know that police is watching him, but I don't know what to expect...He is crazy!!!!
We also talked about it to Jeff's sister Tash, she says that we should be really careful...
I just don't know what to do. To ignore is the best, I guess, if police is watching him. But still...
This is very weird....

... in response to Weird surprise..., posted by Oksana on Feb 12, 2002

Talk to a lawyer.

In some places you can get a restraining order without
notifying the person it is placed on.  If he then
bothers you, like comes to your house, you can
have him busted.  It's the way to go if you think
he is coming after you anyway.

Or, you can gamble that he will forget about you
and start writing to the next person who gets
his name in the paper.

Meanwhile, you know the drill: Never walk alone,
get a CCW if you can, etc.

... in response to Weird surprise..., posted by Oksana on Feb 12, 2002

This is one of the risks in "going public" with your opinions.  Sadly you receive abusive and threating comments.

You should report this to the police or newspaper editor concerned. But you should also take counsel as to any further action.  In many cases it can ponly inflame the situtation (Just look at the posts and abuse from Jack)..  Seriously if you draw attention to this issue it could make matters worst.  This is serious in that he has already invaded your personal life by knowin details as to your address and place of work.  In fairness you should write back informing him that he should refraine form contacting you or your husband.  You may wush to wait to determine if this is a once off contact or if he intends to continue.  Chances are he will forget you and your family ad move on but if he does not and further contact is made then you should act immediately and seek advice.

This is one reason why participants to this baord should remain anonymous... and one reason why I would not meet up with Jack.

jj

... in response to Weird surprise..., posted by Oksana on Feb 12, 2002

Dear Oksana,
   Please take the letter and go to the police and show it to them.
   This person is irrational and you cannot predict what a irrational person will do. You have a responsibility to watch out for the safety of the young children you have in your care. If not for yourself or your husbands, you should make sure the police are informed for the childs' sake.

     Rod

... in response to Re: Weird surprise..., posted by Rod on Feb 12, 2002

and they told me to just throw the letter in the trash.  They said they get lots of letters from this guy and if there weren't any direct threats made in the letter there is nothing they can do about it.  I am not too concerned about it, if this guy is going to hurt anyone, it would be this minister he is obsessed with.  He says that she is going to have his children and all this other crap.  So far he doesn't seem like he wants to do anything to us, but I am making sure to lock the doors!

... in response to Weird surprise..., posted by Oksana on Feb 12, 2002

Do not hesitate. Your safety is at stake. The name of the court order differs from state to state. It could be called a Protective Order, a Restraining Order, or a Peace Bond.

What you need is a court order that prevents this individual from coming within 50ft of you, your home, your work, etc. With this court order, you can have this crazy arrested on the spot without any provocations. If you don't have the court order, the police can't do anything unless the crazy actually commits a crime.

The letter is admissible evidence for a Judge to issue the order.

-blm

... in response to File a court order against him...immedia..., posted by BarryM on Feb 12, 2002

...often push people over the edge, especially in domestic cases. They are often usless, as bad guys and kooks are not obligated to follow the rules.

Even if he violated the order his incarceration would be a few hours at best. He would be released and given a court date and even then he would likely get probation unless he has prior convictions. Its possible that he could be remanded for observation at a medical facility, but this is also not likely to happen. After all, he is out walking the streets with his history now, isn't he?

Take it from someone who spent most of his young adult life in law enforcement, restraining orders are not worth the paper they're written on. 90% of them are violated, its just the folks doing the violating don't get caught very often. If it makes you feel better go ahead and seek one but be advised it may only make things worse. In fact, his one letter is not likely enough to warrant issuing one unless he fails to appear at the order hearing to contest it. If he has had other orders issued against him before it will be easier to get one but he'll likely ignore your's.

Do notify the local cop shop however, so they know about it. They may also tell you to get an order, but thats mainly to cover their butts. The guy may well leave you alone if you just let it lie. Often in cases where the people don't know one another or where the perp is disturbed they will drift away as they often have limited ability to focus.

Protect yourself with some CS or pepper spray if you wish, maybe get a dog and definately evaluate the security your home. Don't try to speak or reason with him, it'll make it worse. And be aware of your surroundings at all times, a habit most people never learn, but should.

lol, if he doesn't respond to all this you can always put a few rounds into him, if and when the time comes.

... in response to Restraining orders..., posted by LP on Feb 12, 2002

This is the down side of the USA.  Crazy people can walk around when they should be locked up for our safety.  

Do not talk to this man or try to reason with him.  That will only keep him coming back.  Get pepper spray and always carry it with you.  Get a small nervous dog to wake up your big mean dog.  This guy will probaby forget all about you in a few weeks unless you feed his interest so lay low.  

In Texas, if the guy breaks in your house and you shoot him, the law will be on your side.  The only trouble you'll have is a messy rug.

... in response to Restraining orders..., posted by LP on Feb 12, 2002

Good advice. I agree with everything you said - restraining orders should be last resort. It is best to let things blow over, but to be prepared with high caliber. For home defense I recommed  20 gauge short barrel auto loader with triple ought. Remington makes a really good one and it is only about $200. For many people in an excited and nervous/scared state it is too easy to miss with a handgun even at close distance, so the short barrel shotgun usually makes up for lack of accuracy - plus the muzzle blast is so loud that it alone will repel many intruders.

Think triple ought.

WmGO

... in response to Re: Remington..., posted by WmGo on Feb 12, 2002

.....a Mossberg 12 gauge pump in the dual pistol grip Cruiser configuration (18 inch) with a tactical white light and laser illuminator, loaded with a special triple steel load.

A Glock 26 with the same illumination setup is also nearby, as its my CCW.

... in response to I use...., posted by LP on Feb 12, 2002

Good set up. I'm impressed. That'll quelch the rioters real quick!

... in response to Re: I use...., posted by WmGo on Feb 13, 2002

'

... in response to I use...., posted by LP on Feb 12, 2002

n/t

... in response to File a court order against him...immedia..., posted by BarryM on Feb 12, 2002

This is a good idea. However, it is only a piece of paper.  Many abused spouses are still injured and killed after filling for a court order of protection.

Oksana & Jeff are correct to be concerned about annoying the guy.  This guy has known where Jeff works for many months now and has not gone nere him.  I, personally, would think twice before filing for a court order and possibly annoying this guy.  If the police are already tracking the guy, that is an additional reason not to file.

On the other hand, if they do feel threatened, they should file for a court order.  It will make it easier for the police to do something about this guy if needs be.

Richard

... in response to Re: File a court order against him...imm..., posted by Richard on Feb 12, 2002

You both have good points and perhaps in your areas that may apply. In the Houston area and in my county, the police always advise a restraining order in situations like that. It makes their job easier to arrest the kook if he sitting in a car across the street. Most of the time the kook is not going to appear in court with an attorney to defend himself against the order. You're right in the fact that the nutballs often violate the court orders but the purpose is to get the scumbag locked up or committed to the looney bin. In Texas, it's a felony to violate a protective restraining order and there is usually a jail sentance involved.

-blm

... in response to Richard & LP..., posted by BarryM on Feb 12, 2002

I agree with LP on this...  wait and see what happens.  You have made a responsible complaint to the police.  It is on record.  In some cases making a issue of ot could inflame the situation...  If he contacts you again write a letter asking him to refain from contact..  then take further action if required.  In most cases you will not hear from him.  Try not to let it dominate your enjoyment of life, In future it could be wise to not provide too many identifying details about yourself...

... in response to Richard & LP..., posted by BarryM on Feb 12, 2002

...regardless of where you live. While the laws may differ, angry or disturbed people do not. In domestic cases the emotional aspects almost always overpower the legal constraints. When I say 90% violate orders and don't get caught, how do I know this? Well, "something" always happens. Tires get slashed, windows broken, ect. While its obvious these acts are related to the the order, the restrained individuals are almot never procescuted for them.

The point is that orders are seldom effective in preventing things from happening and even more useless for arresting people. Only those stupid enough to sit across the street will get hooked up. (You're right about the police, LE will always advise an order, its their obligation to do so.)

Of course it will be easier to place a guy in custody if he is sitting across the street with an order on him. The problem is that many people could care less about the order and take it as an insult, especially if they are anti-authority to begin with. They feel they have been treated unfairly and often feel they know more about the situation than the courts do. They often feel the spouse is using the system to punish them (and they're often correct) and rebel against it.

He would have to vilolate the order *and* be caught in the act to be arrested. Most people are not that stupid. Its very rare that they chose to do so in a way that leaves everyone unharmed, usually if they are going to violate it, it happens one of two ways: They do something small and get away with it (petty vandalisim, ect), or they go whole hog and there are big problems. Either action restores the sense of "dignity" and freedom that the big bad court/petitioner took away.

In California it can be either a felony or a misdemeanor, the penal code leaves it to the DA. Its true that judges take a dim view of violators because it shows contempt for the system but here it does not mean mandatory jail time. Depends on the individuals history.

One can't just "ask" for an order to be issued, in most states there must be a hearing first. You're right that most do not show up at the order hearing to contest the issuance and thus it gets issued without a problem. Then it must be served. Here, if an idividual is not aware of the order or has never been served, the police are required to inform him of it and then may take custody.

As for sitting in jail or the looney bin, this can cause problems down the road that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Nothing like a slow burn in the hole to really motivate some people, especially the ones who are a tad off kilter.

Having said all that, it probally is the right thing to do in this case. Its not domestic and, as stated, this guy has known about Jeff and the Mrs for some time. It difficult to say without knowing more, only Jeff can make the call.

Legal knowledge is mostly useless in restraining cases, knowledge of human behavior (even disturbed folks are predictable) is what needs to be considered, thats why we got so much training in it. All I'm saying is that ROs are often a knee jerk reaction by a trusting public and are rarely all they're cracked up to be. They are not needed in most cases and when they are they often leave the petitioner with a false sense of security. One needs to consider all options, not only a piece of paper.

My point is that one should not depend on the system for one's safety, its too screwed up and I've seen it fail many times before. On the other hand its not good to overeact to a perceived threat either. I will warn again of trying to speak with or reason with this guy. Many lost souls will really attach themselves to kindness and will be hesitant to give it up.
If he is hassling you as a stranger, wait'll you try to get rid of him when he thinks you're his "friend". I know it seems cold but thats the reality in the streets.

... in response to Richard & LP..., posted by BarryM on Feb 12, 2002

You are right.

What I was trying to point out is that a restraining order is just a piece of paper, and in and of itself, it is not going to keep someone who is intent on doing someone bodily harm from doing so.  While the police will take the matter seriously, the person, or people, who are supposed to be protected by the court order could be seriously injured or killed.

IMO, this guy is lonely and wants someone to listen to him.  

I used to be a public librarian.  We got many people like this where I worked.  My "problem patron" was someone who was intent on proving that television was impossible and a figment of our collective imagination. When I wasn't too busy I'd let him talk my ear of and trot in and out of the reference department bookshelves bringing him books to consult.  He caused noone any harm.  

In fact, lending a friendly ear can mean a lot to these people.  One of my coworkers actually saved someones life when she noticed that he had not been in for a few days and sent someone to check on him. He was found in his apartment on his way to freezing to death.

I am not advocating that Jeff and Oxsana befriend this guy.  I am merely suggesting that a little kinds may be better than a protective order.  I believe Teddy Roosevelt said "Walk softly, but carry a big stick." Maybe this is one of those times it's better to walk softly than to used a big stick?

... in response to Re: Richard & LP... (long), posted by Richard on Feb 12, 2002

I can see your point.  That sometimes people need someone they can talk to.  Even someone that appears to be somewhat not all there but in this case with Jeff and Oksana I have to say that it would be best to let sleeping dogs lie, so to speak.

In this case where this strange guy has shown some interest in Oksana and sent them a letter that personally addresses her from seeing them in the paper is just too strange.  I don't think that they need to go right out and execute this guy but to humor him and lend them an ear will probably only create more problems for them rather than to clear it up.  

This guy may feel that he can just come over at any time to talk to them or inconvenience them.  In my opinion and experience it would only bring more trouble down on them.

I have to say that it would be best to just make sure all the locks on the house are in good working order and get one of those nipping barking small dogs like a poodle and keep pepper spray handy and know how to use it.

If this guy tries to make contact once more I would try to get a restraining order on him just in case there are future problems from him.

After that she could always have her husband to confront him personally.  If it were me I would have confronted this man from the start and make sure he understood that his life would be in danger if he contacted us again in any way.

But that is just my way I suppose.  I like to nip things right in the bud right from the start.  I suppose that is just my testosterone coming out.

... in response to Re:I must disagree on this point..., posted by Oatmeal on Feb 13, 2002

Oatmeal:

You are right in that humouring this type of people does cause them to come back for more attention. (My personal problem patron was a royal pain in the butt for 6 months or more.) There is also a difference between showing up at a public library and sending someone a letter.

The point I was trying to make is that this person is *probably* a very lonely person who means no harm but is looking for somebody (or somebodies) to pay attention to him to ease the lonelyness.