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I am just weeks away from my trip to SVO, and the lady I have been writing has not written me back yet...you might remember that I was honest with her..I told her i am coming to see her, which is true..I wouldn't be coming but for to see her. But, I also have a plan B and C, in the event she doesn't care for me or vice versa. There's a lady in another city that I've written a few times, and she seems nice. If I'm going to travel 4000 miles, it seems I should be honest and say I need to accomplish this task of visiting more than one girl....such a dilemma!!

I feel kinda crummy that I told her about possibly seeing others on my trip. I wonder if she felt that I was her one and only, and now I look like a jerk. She's attractive, and I have to believe that I'm not the first guy to write her...

These LDR's do create a level of paranoia..maybe healthy paranoia...I may land at SVO, and she won't be there...I'll then have a few days to twiddle my thumbs...

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Chip,

My opinion should probably be discounted because I never went hunting for a Russian wife.  I simply met a Russian woman online; we got close; I came to see only her; we met at SVO; fell in love; got the K-1/K-2; got married; and have been living an increasingly happy life together for the past 16 months.  I can't tell you anything about the correct "strategy", because I never had one.

BUT...

I don't know whether you follow the Russian Women List listserve, but there is a guy on there who has corresponded with over 2,500 women (US and Russia) and met with at least 150.  If "playing the percentages" always worked, he would have 16 wives by now.

So, everyone, and everyone's prospective fiancee, is different.  Yours simply may be the romantic type, who was hoping that you and her were a magical match made in heaven.  Others with a more competitive nature may be happier knowing that they won a contest with several entrants.

Which type are you?  Would you be happier if your prospective fiancee was seeing several Americans before deciding, or was only interested in you?

BTW, most of the Russian women I have met through my wife fall into the latter category.  One did correspond with more than one American man, but as a result of the well-understood prospect that many who write never make the trip over.  I don't know any who tried the "Let's have 3 of them over, then choose" approach.

One of the greatest features of my wife is her deeply ingrained romantic nature--not just about relationships, but about everything in life.  With that comes jealousy (which is getting better over time) and the certainty that if I had been going over to Russia to meet several prospects, she never would have been interested in meeting me at all.

Yes, I could have been left standing alone at the airport.  But when I look into my wife's eyes at night and say "you are the only one for me", it is the truth.  Somehow "you ranked highest out of the 12 prospects I met" wouldn't sound quite the same to me...

Steve M.

... in response to A Long Reply and a Quick Question, posted by SteveM on Feb 8, 2002

I agree with you. A year ago, I fell in love..sort of. She and I wrote each other, shared thoughts, dreams. I flew to FSU, spent two weeks with her. At end of two weeks, She told me some new details. It changed the relationship. I left, feeling confused. My one and only did not work out. Now, feeling wiser, I plan to see a few ladies.

The disappointment of trip one has fueled my impulse to see more than the lady thta I'm writing. I just don't want to travel so far, and roll the dice, on one lady. Maybe my bad expereince on trip one has already ruined trip two, yet to be taken. MY lady still hasn't written back, after I told her I might see others in her city, only for coffee. Sometimes, being honest doesn't always work out. But, if she doesn't want to see me because of this, it might be a sign that she's not patient or understanding. Or, it's a sign I'm an idiot for saying anything...:)

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

After having slept on it,  please let me say this.
Write to her, tell her to be at the airport.  No more,  just so you two can have a good talk.
You do have honesty on your side, she has to understand that, if she doesn't, you did yourself a favor by telling her
about your agenda.
Perhaps she expected too much from an exchange of messages,  but even if she is a dreamer (such as we all are)
sanity has to take over at one time or another.
How can she fall in love and you for that matter, with a person you have never met face to face.  The both of you
can, legitimetely, have high hopes and dreams.
But with high hopes,  dreams and one dollar, you will get a coffee at a diner.
It is my opinion, that because you are honest you became very smart.
It will be the great test, exam about compatibility between you two.  The first hurdle, if the both of you can't jump
over it hand in hand, no use going any further, so you  saved yourself a lot of hardship for the future.
Think about that if you had not told her about plan B and C, and that everything went so well (because the both
of you would have been on your best behavior) that you got married eventually.  She would still have these
traits in her character,  the sh1t would have at one time or another to hit the fan.  Then you surely would have
something to post about, with a crying towel close by.

What follow, I am hundred percent sure of.            Honest people have a tendency to trust and believe that others
are honest.   Dishonest people tend to believe that everybody is dishonest.
There is no but, if and in between.  

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Chipshot,
write me and let me know your itenerary. I may be able to help you if you're stuck twiddleing your thumbs for a day or two. My cousin is in the air to SVO as I'm writing this and he has a few ladies to meet and I provided him with some options for those days he had an empty schedual.
Mike

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Millions of guys writing...

are not worth one who is actually coming over.

If she is smart at all, she will realize this...

BUT... DO NOT write emails begging her to "at least email me and tell me you are OK" or some pathetic, typical AM response.

Be a man.

If you haven't heard from her and want to write her one last time, the tone should be one of being slightly pissed off. Tell her that if she expects you to see her that you need an answer. And that if she doesn't want to see you anymore, that was her choice, but you think she's making a mistake.

DO NOT WHINE for attention.

AW's have taught us the behavior... but RW will be disgusted if you turn into a whiney sycophant.

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

it just doesn't work.  Either you're with this girl you've been writing, one on one, or you're out of it, with your primary game being looking for love and an honest relationship from whatever just pops up.

You're young enough to break a lot of women's hearts.  Be careful.

Best of luck.

... in response to You can't play both sides Chipper...., posted by BrianN on Feb 7, 2002

He can certainly go and expect to meet more than one lady.

It all depends on how he has framed his trip. If he's saying "My Darling, I cannot wait to see you, I just know you are the woman I have been dreaming of!" ... then, yes, he has committed to her.

But if he is simply being cordial in his letters, and says he is coming and he would like to meet her... he can say that he is going to also visit one other woman.

That's fair. The woman may not like it. But she'll understand it. Who can know if they will have any attraction when they actually meet?

I was writing a lady, and when this discussion came up, she said "Thanks but no thanks. I do not want to be part of a parade of brides!"

I wrote her back saying that I understood. And I can see why she would feel that way. But, it was not how I viewed it, and I would hope she would let me explain.

Then I told her about my trip to see Maria in St. Petersburg. And how I was sure, when writing letters, that she was the one. It was not until we actually met and talked that I knew that she was not the one for me. "A thousand letters cannot replace one meeting."

I told her.. suppose we meet, and you decide that I am not the person you thought I was, and you would rather not date me? Then what? You will feel honor bound to escort me around Odessa, all the while thinking you had better things to do.

We don't want that. So, let us not put too much pressure on our meeting. If it is meant to be, I believe we will know it when we first see each other. And then, no one else will matter.

She thought about it, and wrote me back saying, of course, I was right. We could meet. Why not? (The famous Russian phrase!)

But she thought that we should not get too intimate or personal in our letters then.

(Which, by the way, is EXCELLENT advice.)

I agreed, and the correspondence resumed.

So, depending on how you set expectations, I do not think it is dishonorable at all. And I think it is wise and prudent.

... in response to Not a question of playing both sides, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 8, 2002

This guy, has carried on a relationship with a woman, and based on what he's telling here, it's a one on one relationship thing.

He got scared because of the usual issues.

Of course, he has EVERY RIGHT TO DO WHAT HE WANTS, but he's the one that posted his dilemna with THIS WOMAN on this board.

He helped to create a situation that has the potential to hurt two people, him an her.  Obviously, by her not responding or sending an email, she is definitely hurt by it.

Ok, So, let's all pat him on the back, and say the hell with THAT WOMAN, JUST "go have fun".

Who's lost here?  Her or him?... or both?

It sounds like most would think that the women (no matter where they come from), in this instance are worth crap, and the man's trip report and ego are the most important thing thriving on this board.  

Take some time to evaluate how much you're going to mess up another persons life before you embark on such a venture.  This U.S. male egotism crap is for the birds, and losers.

Step up to the plate, and take charge of yourself.

Just my opinion.

... in response to Full of it... or just confused you must ..., posted by BrianN on Feb 8, 2002

OK, I'll plead ignorance.

I haven't been following the ChipShot saga. That's why I prefaced it with: "As long as he hasn't been saying THIS..."

I guess my advice would be, in general, don't fall in love with a picture and a letter.

If you've already done that.. Ooops. Can't help you.

Of course, Ken will pipe up and say: "It worked for me!"

And so it did. I just think that statistically, its not your best approach.

But, you know what... I haven't found anyone yet, so whadaIknow?

Course, I've heard stories of guys who got hooked up at a social, and they swear by them. Then there is good ol' Mdante who went over, found the first blonde he could, and had her pay her own fare back to the states and accomplished his whole thing in about $2000.

But, as Damon Runyun once put it:

"The battle does not always go to the strong, and the race  does not always go to the swift... But that's the way to bet."

So, I prefer to play the percentages...

... in response to confused you must be --sounds like Yoda ..., posted by MarkInTx on Feb 8, 2002

if a guy starts up a relationship with another woman, be it email, telephone, or snail-mail, then it is what it stands on, as it's own, "a relationship".

If then, there are Options for said guy to go looking around instead of being determinate in his original objective, (with said woman), then that must be the issue that is the most forefront in his travels.

Playing with a lady's head, or anyone's for that matter, is a dangerous thing to do.  Why did he post his concerns in the first place?

It's because he blew it to hell without any kind of commitment on his own part.

Either make a commitment, or get the hell out of the cesspool.  Wanna go over and do some door knocking, then do it.  Wanna go visit one woman?  Do it.  Want to have backups in case the worst situation happens?  Do it.  Just keep it to yourself.  100 percent honesty will only screw your dreams (and options) to hell in this instance.

Nothing against you Mark.  I'm just a little sick of the back slapping that goes on to cheer a guy on, when someone else has obviously been offended, or hurt, by a simple misunderstanding that could have been resolve much earlier on.

OH Yeah... the hell with her.. lets just go find us a wife, after all, its all about us ain't it?

There's two sides to everything.

... in response to Not playing any favorites..., posted by BrianN on Feb 8, 2002


Again... dunno what Chip did or didn't say.

Also agree that these women have feelings, too.

However, you must agree that as Bill put it so well: "We're pearl divers who can only hold our breaths for so long while searching for that gem..."

So, it is reasonable to see more than one woman. If you have said that you wouldn't... or implied that you wouldn't... then you should stick with that.

But if you are up front and honest, and the woman can't deal with that, then you should move on. Back-slapping or no... you SHOULD move on.

You can only hold your breath for so long...

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

...ladies that I planned on meeting at the Anastasia socials I was going to attend (Fr/Sa/Su).

I told the lady I had been writing to that I would be arriving in Moscow on Thursday (mistake #1) and that I was travelling with a tourist company (mistake #2) since I didn't want to travel by myself the first time to Russia.

I said I would have jet lag, so don't meet me at the airport and that after doing some 'touring' with the group (Anastasia), I would meet her on Monday morning.

Well, mistake #1 meant that I had to cover up my plans for the weekend (the socials).  But mistake #2 was NOT a good cover up...it turns out she knew all about the Anastasia socials and had been to one in the past.

So all weekend long all she was alternately really PO'd and really worried.  She told her friends that she was not going to even show up on Monday...just leave me hanging.  Of course they tried to talk her out of that since we HAD been corresponding for some time.  She also thought about just showing up at one of the socials...which would have been an unmitigated disaster as you can well imagine.  Particularly since I didn't even recognize her when we finally did meet in person on Monday.

So, in hindsight, I should have just told her I was arriving on Sunday evening instead and all problems could have been avoided.

Live and learn.

Stevo

... in response to When I visited Moscow I had backups, but..., posted by Stevo on Feb 7, 2002

So far I've been going on one guys opinion that he hated them.  I was wondering if they're well run.  To a quiet guy like me, socials are torture.

... in response to How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by BubbaGump on Feb 8, 2002

at the Anastasia socials.  At the time I went (Oct 99) I had no complaints.  I met several interesting/beautiful ladies whom I considered good backup candidates had things not worked out with my lady.  They were worth it for me.

One reason was that they got me use to talking to RW and the communication problems, and helped me get over my nervousness before I met my lady on Monday (I hadn't been on a date of any kind for more than 10 years, so I was learning to 'ride a bike' again, so to speak).

Stevo

... in response to I really enjoyed my time..., posted by Stevo on Feb 8, 2002

What a learning experience.
My first social, a European Connection, I was a kid in a candy store. Eeny, meny, miney, moe, which one do I want. Ok, I'll take you to night, that one tomorrow, this one on Sunday, etc, etc. And many men did just this. Other men never left the side of the first young sensual lady who pounced on him. We all thought (about 65 men) we were in love when we left Moscow 8 days later. 90% of the men had a fiancee. Over the next three and four months all but one or two of the group had realized it was not for real.

My second trip not to long after that was an Anastasia social. Having a little experince now, and a game plan, I stood back and did a lot of watching. Most of the men never knew what hit them. 35 to 40 guys and and 20 of these guys fell for the first young sensual thing that smiled at them.

In 10 months time I made it to three consecutive Anastasia socials in Moscow. At this time I only went to the socials for the pure fun of it. I had already made arrangements to met several other ladies in Moscow who were outside the socials but I would keep these four hours free on Friday and Saturdays.

After the second and third socials most of the regular ladies remembered me and I evetually got to know several, maybe five or six, quite well. On a couple of occassions, if one of the regular ladies could not latch onto a man on the first or second social, and I had some free time,  I was able to take a few of these ladies out. These ladies were very open with me. It was all that some of these ladies lived for, circling on there calandar when the next Anastasia or European Connection social was. Some of the ladies would travel by two days train to attend these and many had girlfriends in Moscow that they could spend a few days with while they stayed in Moscow.

E.C. and Anastasia was loving it! They didn't care if the same ladies were coming over and over, as they just wanted 200 to 250 beautiful ladies at each social. Almost 75% of the ladies who showed up on the Friday social also showed up on the Saturday social.

Usually if the ladies from out of town couldn't snag someone by the Saturday afternoon social, they were on the train home that evening. For the most part the Sunday socials were not so entertaining. Less ladies, fewer men, and not the creme of the crop on either side if you know what I mean.

It was the goal of many of these ladies to latch onto any man they could during the first social, and some of these ladies were very good. Many were able to get the guys to leave the social and after a good role in the hay that evening, she was able to keep the guy from attending the next social. You won't believe how many times I saw this happen. There would almost always be a third less men on the second day of the social as compared to the the first. Wonder why that was?

If a lady can keep this guy tied up for a few days, until after the socials are all over, she will have him to herself the remaining 8 or 9 days. He was not able to meet any other ladies. Now she was able to get some new clothes, some new appliance's for the flat. A little money for English lessons and a little hear and there and she had $200 or $300 in cash as she waved to him good-bye. The last time either would see each other again.

On average each of these ladies was able to keep the so-called relationship going for four or five months, using collecting on average an additional $400 or $500. And during this four to five months time, she has been able to make it to some two or three new socials. If the lady was only hitting a 50% success ratio she was doing good.

It became very competitive between the regular ladies and they just got more efficent with each social. Age, looks, personality meant nothing to them.

The new, sincere ladies who would show up at these socials just sat back in there chairs up against the wall smiling big as each man would glance there way. Few men were able to get to the sincere ladies. I saw several such ladies just get up and walk out after two hours, a few in tears.

... in response to These socials were a great learning expe..., posted by Jack on Feb 8, 2002

Jack and his lies again

Dont believe to thing this Conman says. "
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... in response to These socials were a great learning expe..., posted by Jack on Feb 8, 2002

Jack and his lies again

Dont believe to thing this Conman says. "
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... in response to These socials were a great learning expe..., posted by Jack on Feb 8, 2002

Of course, I've already gone to a few socials, but if I went to the same city a couple of times maybe I would have seen that pattern.    

I noticed from the very first social that a lot of guys have gone to many socials without success.  I thought they just didn't know how to get a woman but now I know better.  They're sorting through the scammers.

... in response to These socials were a great learning expe..., posted by Jack on Feb 8, 2002


I want you bashers to note that this was an honest and sincere post with no "info-mercial" buried in it anywhere.

Just one guy with a load of experience sharing it.

This was helpful Jack, Thanks!

... in response to How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by BubbaGump on Feb 8, 2002

Anastasia was the worst run, ugliest women waste of time out of any attempt I have ever made to meet women in the FSU.  I should have just put my money in my pocket and hung out at the local pub - way better chance of actually seeing and meeting an attractive girl.

... in response to Re: How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by Bobby Orr on Feb 8, 2002

One other thing - it was in Kiev this past summer.  I went to an AFA social in St. Petersburg in November 99 - now those socials were good - though how any of the big agency socials are in my opinion not the right way to go about meeting women.  I would strongly suggest talking to Firstdre@m if I were you.

... in response to How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by BubbaGump on Feb 8, 2002

I have my own impressions of Anastasia's socials, so just keep in mind that this is my own opinion based on my own experiences.

It would also be good to read my post above about the owner of Anastasia.

I had decided in Feb. of 1999 to go to FSU to look for my future wife.  I searched the web for some companies who could help me accomplish this.

Since I was so new to this and I had no idea about any of this I felt it would be a good idea to go with a tour company who could "show me the ropes".  You know safety in numbers.

I found that Anastasia tour company was based only 30 minutes from my front door so I contacted them and went to their office in person to talk about the trip.

After meeting with the owner I decided that it was something I had to pursue to at least find out if it was really true or what.

I went on the Kiev/Moscow combo tour.  I was astonished to find so many beautiful women on the tour and really met some nice ladies but no luck on my first tour.  I discovered a lot on this first tour.  (too much to reveal on this post.)

I also met some not so sincere ladies on this tour.  I still feel personally that a social tour is a good way to go if you are unsure how to go about meeting women there.  Now I had some great memories from my Anastasia socials (I will never forget my trip)But if I had to do over again and I wanted to go on a social I would recommend Jack and FirstDream.  The reason I say this is that Jack really shows personal, sincere interest in his clients.  Companies like Anastasia and European Connections will arrange the socials and other arrangements but don't really seem to take personal interest in your success or failure.  I still think that Anastasia and EC can deliver a necessary service but I would personally go with a company that is a little more personalized and can more closely control the women coming to the socials and my own questions.  I have used Jack on another visit to Ukraine (not a social) and found him very helpful.

... in response to How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by BubbaGump on Feb 8, 2002

Save your money! They were composed of 80% scammers, party girls, lookie lou s,  and hookers with only 20% looking for a serious relationship.

To the inexpirienced eye it was quite wonderful and exciting but in hindsight it was a waste of time and money.

They advertised in the newspapers for anyone to show up and party with minimal screening. Most of the time they bunched up in groups of 6-8 and it was near impossible to talk to the lady that you wanted to meet.

They had maybe 10-12 "interpeters" for 40-50 guys so you had to run one down or wait for your turn to get one. Because you rarely got the same one twice you had to explain your whole life's story over and over.

You had an hour and a half to try to communicate before they started the disco music so loud that any further talking had to be done outside.

Then there were the drinks, at $6 for a bottle of Perrier and over $10 for a mixed drink (in Moscow).

I found Firstdream's "parties" to be less stressful and more productive (even though that is not how I met my wife). At Jack's shindigs you knew that there were at least two to four ladies that were there to meet YOU each day. They were carefully screened (although I thought that a few were there just to party) so it kept out the hookers and lookie lou s.

The venue definitely had more class and the music wasn't so loud that you could not have a conversation. The same $6 that bought a bottle of water in Moscow got you a bottle of champgne in Kyiv.

You had your own (competent) interpreter and so the repeating of your life's story over and over was not needed. After the first few ladies, your interpreter could answer most of the initial questions thus saving a lot of time. Even as shy as I was, I got around to meet almost all but maybe 4-5 ladies at these parties.

I still think that a newspaper ad is the best way to go but you could combine the parties as your plan B (go over a week before to meet your plan A).

... in response to Re: How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by Rags on Feb 8, 2002

One guy told me that Anastasia just seemed to invite women off the street.  He didn't like their tours at all.  

I was told that AFA had the best socials of all but that they would have a social on the day before you left. Any girls you met on that last day you couldn't spend but one evening with.  EC was 2nd best but they're the largest tour operator.  At least they have enough interpreters.

One more warning about interpreters.  I had my interpreter call some women fluent in English but since she makes $55 a day off me, it has occured to me she may have never called those girls.  $55 is a month's salary in a day!  Other guys said that interpreters never like the girls that speak English.  

... in response to Re: How did you like Anastasia socials?, posted by Rags on Feb 8, 2002

.

... in response to When I visited Moscow I had backups, but..., posted by Stevo on Feb 7, 2002

Steve

Thanks fo rsharing this with me. I just have a sense that these ladies really do know what's going on in the realm of LDRs and FSU dating. As you said, when a big tour is in town, they know it. The only thing I have in my favor is that while I'm in Russia, I'll miss a big tour by two days. I never had planned on doing a tour, but just one visit, one night, at a big social seemed really tempting. I would regale the Russian crowd with a rendition of the macarena, the forbidden dance of love. :) And yes, I'm sure S and her friends would know about it.

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Chip,
Go to Russia with all the confidence in the world that you and "S" will be a great match.  But have an agencies number in your back pocket if things don't work out.  Best of luck to you.
KenC
ps (I went to meet one woman in Russia and we are closing in on 3 years married)

... in response to Don't be paranoid, but be smart, posted by KenC on Feb 7, 2002

n/t

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

One big question, here.
Did you volunteer the information or did she ask you, if you were coming over just to see her.

If she did ask you,  then it does mean that she knows how the game is played, that you could have a plan B and C.
If you volunteer the informations, she may be hurt,  but underline the facts that you wanted everything above
board, and that you are an honest person.  And that should your relation goes on and on, she can trust you
in the future.

... in response to Re: Last minute jitters..., posted by micha1 on Feb 7, 2002

n/t

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Dude,
It seems you should have enough sense to not ruin your trip before it even starts. In the future, NEVER *volunteer* the fact that you will be meeting other ladies. As a matter of common sense, the issue of honesty only arises when confronted with a specific question from the lady as to whether you are going to see another lady. In that event it is still best to dodge the question - even dodging is not dishonest. If the lady forces an answer, and she probably won't, just say that yes, after traveling so far and with all of the uncertainties involved, you are meeting another *woman* (note the singular - a true statement, but still not revealing the whole story - if you do, it is the kiss of death with a lot of FSUW).

Remember, you are the boss, you are to take command and control. FSUW understand this and respect this. They do not respect the opposite.

Good luck.

WmGOnevertells

PS. If she is not at the airport and you spend your days twiddling your thumbs in the one of the world's largest and most exciting cities you only have yourself to blame.

... in response to Re: jitters..., posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002


Twiddling thumbs is for losers. If she's not there, get your butt to an agency, and line up dates.

Or, call one of your backups and move her date up.

You can twiddle your thumbs for twelve hours on the plane, if you want to keep them in shape.

You've got better things to do when you're in the Motherland...

... in response to Re: jitters..., posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

I may not have handled it the right way, but I couldn't disagree with you more.

Honesty is honesty. Deception is deception. These women are bright, smart. Very smart. They've heard all the bu** s**t stories from their friends.

I'm not going to fool her. I'll be honest. If she doesn't respond well, then it's off to St. Pete, on an adventure.

... in response to WmGo, posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Chip,
You need to reread my post - in it I taught you the difference between needlessly *volunteering* something and *answering* a question honestly. Look again, there *is* a difference.

Yes, FSUW are very smart and intuitive. I have been over many times and keep correspondence with many. The good ones are the best and the bad ones are the worst. The more you are exposed to them in person in their country the more you willl know what I mean.

Sorry to have sounded harsh.

Good luck. St. Pete will definitely be an adventure. That is the first stop of my next trip.

WmGO

... in response to Re: Honesty, posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

A good online agency in St. Pete. Something like $40 and you can contact as many women as you want from their agency. Some real lookers. And they even have video clips of some. I contacted several and never met a scammer in the bunch.

There was another agency...can't remember the URL now, but it had free listings and listed the ladies real email addresses.

Then, Jack gave me the address of a small agency. (You can read my trip reports waaaay back in the archives.) The agency was small, and the ladies were not on the internet. Run by a Babushka, but she was nice. And they had some very beautiful women in their books.

NO NEED TO TWIDDLE THUMBS in ST. Pete's!!!

... in response to St. Pete's? Have you checked out IKAR?, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 8, 2002

Mark,
I don't date big city women. I either fly them in or train them in from the "village." But I do plan to get that agency name and others just in case there is a no show (so far I have never had one).

It is very thrilling and romantic for the ladies from the smaller cities to be brought into the big city for a meeting. It has a way of putting a good mood and atmosphere on everything.

WmGO

... in response to Re: Honesty, posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

WmGo:

I appreciate your feedback. In the end, we all have to set our own thermostat to what we're comfortable with. I'm fortunate that I've had some nice responses from a number of ladies, and I'm just overwhelmed with what to do. Time will tell. I'm just certain that I'll make mistakes that some of you may have already experienced, and I'm fortunate that you're all here, so that green critters like myself can learn.

I also mentioned to her that I have leprosy, and more fingers than teeth.  Should I not have mentioned that? :)

By the way, I hope you don't really hunt. :) Those critters in the field have the same right to live as you and I do...
....Here comes the Ted Nugent rebuttal...

... in response to WmGO...again., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Chip,

It actually has nothing to do with what a man says. Man is not the moral authority of the universe. God the Creator is. And only Him.

After the Great Flood He authorized the eating of animals for food: Genesis 9:1. And He commands that it is sin for a person to judge another based on what they eat, including meat: Colossians 2:16.

No, animals do *not* have the same right to live as I do. Only man was created in the image of God. And only man has an eternal spirit. Jesus did not die for the animals. He died for you and me :) One of the greatest sins is for man to exalt the creation over the Creator: Romans 1:25.  

Regards.

WmGO

P.S. Nugent Rocks!

... in response to Great White Buffalo : ), posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

I am impressed!

... in response to Great White Buffalo : ), posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

Man did I want to fired a reply to your post,  but I shall refrain.
Let me say that if god made man in his image, he sure miss his target, the perfect guy.
He probably created us a day that he had a hangover or soon after he found out his girl cheated on him.

As for animal, they are ok,  my dogs are way better beings that most of the people that I know, so please leave
animals alone.

... in response to Great White Buffalo : ), posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

I was listening to Ted on the way home trying to think of his name.  If you're a big hunter, have you ever gone to that game preserve near you that has the really large bucks?  You also used to be able to hunt wild turkey down in your area.

... in response to Great White Buffalo : ), posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

Yyyyy! let's talk about God and bible then!!! But this thing is right not only for God,also for everybody! Oh, well, I am done for today, goodnight!!!:))

... in response to Great White Buffalo : ), posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

As tempting as it would be for me to respond to your post, I won't. :) It's not in my Buddha nature. :)

Chip

... in response to Re: Great White Buffalo : ), posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Hey Chip,

As a Buddhist, you would know that:

Buddhism is only a *man* made *philosphy*.

Buddha never claimed to be God or divine.

Buddha made clear that he himself was searching for
who God is.

By contrast, Jesus fulfilled several hundred ancient prophecies, including the exact place, date and circimstance of his birth, as well as His life, crucifiction, burial and resurrection. And He made it perfectly clear who He claimed to be: God Himself.

Please consider this. Eternity is the issue.

Good luck!

WmGO

... in response to Re: Buddha, posted by WmGo on Feb 8, 2002

Yyy, I love Buddha!!! I have read about this religion a lot. It is very interesting and noble religion! Wow!

... in response to Re: Re: Buddha, posted by Oksana on Feb 9, 2002


http://www.tricycle.com/dailydharma/dailydharma.shtml

... in response to Re: Buddha, posted by WmGo on Feb 8, 2002

"By contrast, Jesus fulfilled several hundred ancient prophecies, including the exact place, date and circimstance of his birth, as well as His life, crucifiction, burial and resurrection. And He made it perfectly clear who He claimed to be: God Himself."

I won't respond directly, WmGo. I'm tempted, but I won't. I will say, though, to keep my response on point with the list, that strong doctrinal views may be difficult for a woman from FSU to swallow. As I understand the religious sensibilities of most FSU women, they are by title Orthodox, but really don't hold strong religious views. I understand that the Bible Belt brand of Christianity can really rub the wrong way. I'm not being critical, but only stating that to assist with your search, and long term happiness, you may find that a FSU woman really won't share your passion for the Christ story. I would also imagine they won't take well to being "saved."  

... in response to Re: Re: Buddha, posted by ChipShot on Feb 8, 2002

Chip,

You are generally correct about FSUW and Christianity. Myself and others have pointed this out on this Board on numerous occassions. I have however found and met many real Christian woman in Russia and Ukraine. But most are not, thanks to the Communists. This points out the importance of discovering one's religious beliefs very early on in the correspondence process (or whatever else is important to the man or the woman). Through this process I have been able to screen out the atheist and agnostic women quickly - within two or three letters. Of course, unlike some I regulary date AW and I could eventually find what I am looking for here. Only God knows.

An interesting phenomena is that in certain regions of Russia, most notably the Ural Region and St. Petersburg, there is tremendous spiritual revival going on. And it is spreading. I have no doubt that God Himself brought the Wall of Communism down so that His Truth could be proclaimed throughout the former Soviet republics in the last days. That is only fair. All will be without excuse.

Good luck on your upcoming trip.

WmGO

... in response to WmGo, posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Yes, be honest! It will make you feel better too! The truth never makes things work for the worse! Telling the truth will always work for you! And you will never feel sorry about it!
Oksna

... in response to Do not listen this super hunter:))), posted by Jeff on Feb 7, 2002

Listen because I *did* say (and the archives will reflect that I have said this many times): *always* be honest. Always.

Honesty is the best policy.
Honesty is sowing the good seed-
it will bear good fruit.
Honesty is what God commands.

For crying out loud though. The issue here has nothing to do with honesty. The issue is whether it is wise to just up and *volunteer* that, " by the way darling, when I am in your country I will be seeing some other ladies!"

The simple fact of the logical matter is that it is *not* an act of dishonesty to *not* make that statement.

Case closed.

Balshoi spasiba :)

... in response to Yes listen!!!, posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

I would never marry guy like this. Ohhh, many of them wrote to me that they want to command and do what they need to do, I always sent that to the... even if I knew that they had a lot of big bucks!!! it is not a right person to marry to and to trust to.
And nothing you can do about God here and his rules, we use in our lives what is the best for us!!!!! He!

... in response to Re: Yes listen!!!, posted by Oksana on Feb 7, 2002

I think that this is what they call the language barrier. Or perhaps two different points aimed at different targets and both hitting the mark. Or I could personalize it also and make an immature statement like, " I would never marry an immature, selfish and self centered woman."

But I really appreciate your romantic and idealistic mind :)

... in response to Re:  Yes, posted by WmGo on Feb 8, 2002

There is nothing you can do about the language! Some people can speak one language and still don't understand each other.

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

I see that you are a little bit worried... well, I tell you what, you are like a hunter who is trying to catch two or tree deers at the same time.. hunters like this miss all of them, I am afraid that it possibly can happen to you ( I hope not), but if you chose this way of finding a good prson, i don't blame you, it is your bisness, but you still have to be really honest, and make for her everything clear, just explain yourself!!! You can even say her that you are afraid of making a mistake, that she might not like you and things like that, just tell her frankly, make her put herself in your situation... she will probably understand you if she is normal and kind. She also may be jailous:)) you can try to call her and tell her everything. because  RW aren't foolish either, they have honor:)))
Oksana

... in response to Re: Last minute jitters..., posted by Jeff on Feb 7, 2002

Oksana,
I regularly kill two or three deer at one time. You just have to know what you are doing and be quick on the draw! :)

... in response to Re: two or three., posted by WmGo on Feb 7, 2002

Wow!!!! I must love "deers":)))

... in response to Re: Last minute jitters..., posted by Jeff on Feb 7, 2002

When I wrote her, I told her that a friend of mine had suggested that I not see only her. My friend is married to a woman from FSU, and when I wrote "S" I told her baout this suggestion. I also told her that I was only coming to SVO to see her, but I wanted to know how she felt about my possible meeting others for coffee while i was on the trip. My friend met his wife over a series of meetings, and felt that it was better to evalaute the relationship over time.

I just wanted to be "up front" about this thinking, since I think my friend has the right idea. If S and I hit it off, I want her to know that I'll return to New York, absorb everything, and then come and see her again. I just didn't think I'd be prepared to get engaged after only a one week trip. I also have a woman in Ukraine that I like, and yes, I want to see her too, this year.

What a mess...

I agree, Oksana. I find Russian and Ukrainian women to be smart, deep, and direct. I have enormous respect for every woman I'm writing. I want them to know my feelings on this LDR, even though they might not be happy about the way I'm doing it. At least, if I marry S, she won't see me as a sneak, but honest even with bad news.

On the other hand, maybe I screwed this up big time...:)

... in response to Thanks, Oksana, posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

Just take it easy! You  just writing them, not having sex, so, just you find this way more comfortable  for yourself, go ahead!! Just be honest with all of them, just getting know someone else is not bad if it is not more than that. Only remember, if you get married with "S", you have to forget about getting know someone else:))))
And you didn't screw anything up yet:))) Just figure out what you need, and don't stumble on the way, if so....

... in response to Last minute jitters..., posted by ChipShot on Feb 7, 2002

You're just an honest man, trying to be honest.  Unfortunately, many women will actually hold your honesty quite "suspect", until they see it in person.  I assume, based on your previous post, that you had been writing this one girl almost mutually exclusive, with a few extras on the side from time to time.

If you did not divulge your intent, (of having backups) in the beginning with her, then you really screwed it up with this one.  It's ok to be a little scared and concerned that it might not therefore the backup... but WMGO, said it exactly right, keep any backups under wraps in a situation such as this.

While wovo may be easy to conceptualize in the mind, actually doing it is entirely a different thing.  But if in your heart, you want to go for only one... but just in case.. there might be that smidgen of doubt, you should NEVER reveal anything on the back burner, and act with the assumption that those on said burner, won't give a wit one way or the other if you show up or not, and wouldn't be offended if they saw you with your "MS #1" on the street.

If you honestly think that the chemistry is there via long distance as it was, and it will work, then one MUST assume that it will, and maintain that attitude all the way through - until you call it off.  Only THEN call in or consider the backups.  

To be 100 percent honest, (which is a characteristic that can screw you royally in this venture), without complete, and thorough understanding between each other, is contemplating relationship suicide by email.  The way it sounds at the moment, this girl has lost ALL trust in you, which is probably the biggest issue that the fsu crowd faces with AM.

Now, it seems that you need a way out of your predicament, which is tantamount to social re-engineering of your relationship with the girl.  There are about 2 million ways to do this, but only a few that will work for yout particular situation.