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I'm curious about the experience of the married guys. How critical to comfort and success is the English language ability of the new bride? I have read some posts that having English ability seems critical to de-isolating the young lady, as she tries to adapt to our culture.

This concept struck me over the weekend. There are two ladies I wanted to call. One gave me her phone number, she speaks almost perfect Englsih, and I had a wonderful call with her. Terrific. The other cannot speak English at all, and wrote me with some embarrassment that she could not talk on the telephone. This response brought home to me the idea that having English really allows the connection to take place, emotionally and intellectually.

What are the thoughts of the experienced guys, and RW?

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

I know I have a very strong position on it so I have to put a disclaimer that "it is my personal opinion and you can bring thousands of reasons against it and I am not going to change it :)"

I still don't understand why do people have to make their lives more complicated than it is? If you decide to find a foreign wife why don't choose the one who has everything you dream about plus some knowledge of English?

Why spend so much money and nerves on translation, interpreting, misunderstanding, adjustment issues if you can eliminate it by very simple selection criteria? I don't get it.

But to each of his own. Certainly, for somebody who speaks Russian and knows the culture it might be not a problem. Otherwise, I just simply don't get it...

Russian Wife

... in response to not ? but !!!!!, posted by RW on Jan 23, 2002

One of the great things about America is that we are a country of mostly immigrants, mostly from Britain, France, and Spain. The immigrants who came to this country brought some of their culture with them and blended it with the other cultures here. Each culture has contributed to the greatness of the country.

Keeping some of the Russian culture in the family is a good thing. Raising children that speak both languages contributes to a better education of them and will give them better learning abilities. When cultural identity is used in a positive way, it contributes to the richness of life and adds to the American culture as a whole. Something to consider when you decide to marry a RW.

The above also applies to Ukrainians, Bulgarians, etc.

-blm

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

My wife's knowledge of English is fairly limited.  She knew virtually no English when I went to Russia to meet her.  I know some Russian, but I had used the language primarily to translate technical documents.  I took a couple of night courses to refresh my knowledge of Russian while I was corresponding with my wife.  But still, my speaking skills were limited when I went over there.  My wife's daughter is a university student and she knew some English.  She translated for us sometimes, but there were some misunderstandings and awkward momments.  Fortunately, my wife is a very patient and good natured person.  We "clicked" during my visit.  I think that I was attracted by her personality as much as by her good looks.  I just felt comfortable with her, in spite of the language problems.

My wife has been in the U.S. for 7 months now.  We had some crazy misunderstandings at first.  On the second day she was here, she announced that she was going to cook dinner for me and she needed "maslo".  I didn't realize that "maslo" refers to cooking oil as well as butter.  So, I kept pointing to the butter in the fridge, and she kept saying that it wasn't what she wanted.  Finally, we went through the cupboards and found the right kind of "maslo". I bought a large Russian/English dictionary just before she arrived in the U.S.  It is falling apart now because we use it so much.

She started her second semester of ESL last week. I think that she has made a lot of progress learning English.  She can understand a lot now, provided people speak slowly, but has difficulty speaking.  My Russian also has improved and we speak a lot at home in Russian.  I often mispronounce words and screw up the case endings, but she usually understands what I am trying to say. Still, she is very dependent on me.  We do all of the shopping together.  She seems more comfortable in the supermarket now that she was before.  But I worry about what would happen to her if I were seriously injured in a traffic accident or became ill. This is particularly a concern because of the INS delays in issuing her Employment Permit.  

I think that these relationships can work in spite of communication problems.  It helps if you also know some Russian and have some understanding of Russian customs.  Communication is a two-way street.  You have to be patient with each other and be willing to work hard at communicating.

... in response to Re: The importance of English?, posted by ChuckRM on Jan 22, 2002


... except my wife is from Japan. We just celebrated our 16th wedding anniversary.

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/show.php?asian/archive00050/messages/18662.txt

Jeff S.

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

Thanks, everyone who responded. The comments and advice are very helpful.

It is a peculair thing, this idea of deciding one's travel plans, based on some objective and even subjective feelings about certain women. There are some women, in Volgograd, for example, who look absolutely stunning (9-10) , and have all of the attributes, except English. Then, there is the woman who, by American standards, is attractive (8), and speaks English. My inclination is that the beauty factor is overridden by the adaptability factor. The beauty is an initial attraction, but the ability to share thoughts, to communicate, seems to be so important.

Sometimes, I do a reality check, and appreciate that if the 8 I know was in a Starbucks, would I be interested? Madly! So, I try to apply a reality check in this process. I'm 39, with a child, and she is 27, with a child...what am I worried about?:)

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

One of my managers had a premature baby.  She was practically living at the hospital for a few months.  While she was there, a Russian woman was put in her room with her sick infant.  The Russian woman couldn't speak a word of English, so it was very frustrating for her to watch the doctors puzzle over what was wrong with her baby.  Finally, one day, they brought in an intern who spoke Russian.  The lady broke down and cried, as she was finally able to converse with somebody and tell them what was wrong with her child.

Now let me ask you, how would you feel if that had been *your* wife?  What if you lived in a small town with no Russian people?  Watching your wife in torment, as clueless doctors have to guess what's wrong.  When I heard that story, I stressed to my fiancée the importance of knowing English, and told her the same story.  She spent over a year studying English before she came to America.  

Believe me, it was well worth it.  While we don't plan on having children for a while, there is a huge comfort in knowing that she can take care of herself in an emergency.  Regardless of how much she knows, however, don't expect your lady to be totally fluent coming off the plane.  It took Marina a good six months before she felt halfway competant with the language.

As a small point of interest, I found it interesting that the more proficient my wife became with English, the more she forgot her Russian.  When she went home last fall, it was humorous to see her answer her family in English, check herself, and repeat the answer in Russian.  One advantage to learning English, however, was that it increased her language learning skills.  Her control over Ukrainian increased to the point that she was more fluent than her mother in a matter of a few weeks.  Not bad, considering her mother grew up speaking it...

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

I had an incredible time (two seperate trips) with a lady that spoke little English. However, I think that the language barrier had a play in why nothing developed with that lady. There were simply things that were not discussed that needed to be discussed and misunderstandings happened on several occasions creating stress.

And, as Dan said each lady is different and thus each situation needs to be evaluated on its own merrits. However, to not speak English only makes everything more difficult. I would avoid it if at all possible.

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

Chip,
Communication is the key to a good relationship.  How can you even establish that you "have" a relationship if you cannot communicate?  Some will say there is no problem in knowing that the two of you are interested and attracted without a common language.  That attraction is all physical.  While this type of attraction is important, it is only the beginning.  I met some RW that didn't speak English.  Having an interpreter inables you to "talk" but is akward as he!!.  I cannot understand how anyone can establish a relationship without a common language.

My wife, Lena, spoke decent English when we met and today after 3 years her English is very good.  But when she first came to America there were many misunderstandings between us because of the language differences.  Now she even "gets" the subtle humor and double meanings.  I would say that with out at least some fundamental common language, you are wasting your time.  Any guy that can communicate in Russian, will have a tremendous advantage and a much wider selection.  Of course, the RW will still have to learn English eventually.
KenC

... in response to VERY, posted by KenC on Jan 22, 2002

You told us you were a hundred per cent Russian one time, I think. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Niall

... in response to I thought you spoke Russian, Ken!, posted by NK on Jan 22, 2002

Niall,
Yes I am and no I don't.  All my Great Granparents came here from Russia.  My parents could understand Russian but not speak it.  Lena thought it was a waste of time for me to learn Russian.  It was more important for her to improve her English.
KenC

... in response to I thought you spoke Russian, Ken!, posted by NK on Jan 22, 2002

Niall,

I recall Ken talking about his Russian ancestry, but as best I recollect, I never heard any claim that he speaks the language.

I think he was only describing his lineage in earlier posts.

- Dan

... in response to Lineage Vs. Language . . ., posted by Dan on Jan 22, 2002

Dan,
You are exactly correct.  (See my post above)  Although the language was not passed on, many Russian traditions and foods were.  Lena says I have a "Russian soul"
KenC

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

I think there is no real answer to this question sense each lady is different. My wife can't understand how a girl would come here without knowing English. She spoke English rather well but it was in the UK style and she is still suffering daily with new slang words and phrases. It has caused her to be shy when talking to new people in fear of being looked at as someone that is stupid ( I constantly tell her that most people are not so judging )

My cousin had a girl from the Ukrain come here last year and after 2 weeks she wanted to go back because she realized it would be a long road to travel before she felt herself equal in our society. He spoke some Russian but they were constantly having a hard time comunicating, and this got old fast. If you say that love was not there then I would have to agree, but in a lot of relationships it requires a long time to be in true love and not being able to talk well with each other surely is of no help.

Mike

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

My wife spoke hardly any English at first. We still managed to "converse" on the phone, between her few words of English and my few words of Russian. When I went to visit we used a Russian-English dictionary alot, drew some pictures when nothing else worked,  and actually had fun with the language "problem." We are now happily married (less than 2 years after our first meeting) and she is talking up a storm (English). She is fairly young (31), smart, totally emmersed in English, and eager to learn. All of that helps. So in my case, the initial language "barrier" was not an issue.

I'm sure you will get differing opinions on this, but my advice: if you really have a good feeling about someone, I wouldn't let the language thing get in your way....

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

My wife got here in April last year.She wrote and read pretty good English but speaking was another story.
Once here,she HAD to learn and HAS.(No-one speaks Russian here)The Ectaco 586 electronic translator is a great tool.
It can be very frustrating for both of you if there are large language barriers.
It takes a lot of PATIENCE and TIME on both of you...
I choose to think it really is a bonding process for the relationship.

Once here she can listen to tv and read closed captioning around the house.With a translator she can look up occasional words she needs to learn.If the girl is intelligent (as most RW are) she'll pick up quite quickly.
My wife is due any day now so studying hasn't been the priority around here but she goes to the doctors alone and understands everything already.Fast-speaking people can be a little intimading to her and she has definitely noticed that different parts of USA's people have accents.

It's up to you and how patient you are and willing to help.Especially those first few years.
Best of luck with all...

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

Olya knew almost no English when she arrived in April last year - and for the first couple of months, we spoke only Russian. As we began to venture out - and especially when we took a combined business/pleasure trip to the East Coast and she was suddenly forced to speak English with my friends - she has been progressing regularly ever since.

My situation is different than most in that I conduct business in Ukraine and have occasion for regular travel. My meeting ladies was done, more or less, in the same way I would meet ladies here in the US. Because I speak some Russian (badly, I might add --smile--), I did not exclude ladies that spoke no English. In fact, to some extent, I probably selected against ladies with English skills because it didn't help my Russian.

In any case, the lack of English has not been a major impediment in our relationship to this point and I do not expect it to become one.

The comments about importance of the language in order to more quickly assimilate into the culture and society here are accurate. To a very large extent, it depends on the comfort level of the individual lady and her willingness/interest to learn the language. I can recall many, many times coming home to find Olya with her Colorado Driver's Handbook (in English) open and marked up with hundreds of Russian words in the margins. Next to that was a pad of paper with another page or two of words written down that she either wanted to ask me about  or that she wanted to reinforce. She worked incredibly hard at the process of learning - and she has had a remarkable easy time of assimilating to this point. I don't know if the two are directly-linked, but they may be.

I hope this helps.

- Dan

... in response to The importance of English?, posted by ChipShot on Jan 21, 2002

My wife said she couldn't imagine not being able to speak english well enough to converse and express her feelings and understand mine. The misunderstandings and frustrations with the added pressure of having to marry within 90 days would be just to much. Then you add the isolation and total dependance that she would have for you and your looking at a recipe for failure.
In our case she spoke enough english when we met that we could spend time alone w/ the aid of a dictionary, but when I left she took lessons at a school and spoke and read pretty well when she got here, but she is still picking up the nuances of the way we speak here and 'fast talkers' still give her trouble. But she's getting better all the time (here since Oct 2)