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Okay Jack,
You were correct in your post that I was gracious and did not say anything bad or mean in my post. I gave credit where credit was due. Now the rest of the story.

Jack paints a pretty picture speaking about this beautiful apartment, many girls, and Galina working her tail off......NOT. I'm sorry to inform the board that this was not the case. I wrote Jack for TWO months asking about my trip to Dnepropetrovsk. Each time he had nothing to say. I STILL have all the emails and will make them available to anyone who wishes to see them. They are dated and timed. Repeated inquiries BY ME to jack about Dnep. There were no ladies lined up, I kept trying to ask Jack about lining up ladies and he said don't worry about it. He suggested I go to pay sites and get some addresses. I asked if Galina had a website, I was told it would be up by mid december...I was leaving 23 december so I would at least get a look. Never happened. I found an agency in Dnep that had alot of beautiful ladies and a couple that I had written to. Unfortunately, they HATE jack and Galina in that city and that agency is off limits. Before you rebuke this Jack, I have the emails from you to support everything I have posted. I didn't want to get into it this way but you leave me no choice. You have painted a picture that I am a selfish person who does "what he wants" at the expense of others. I do what I want but NEVER at the expense of others. Face the facts, you put together a piss poor trip with no details, no girls, no contacts and expected me to just show up in Dnep. When I met a few girls I liked in Kiev, I decided to stay in Kiev. Galina wasn't standing on a frozen  platform like one person suggested. She was notified in plenty of time. There was no problem. As for the flat not being rented.....that's another story.

My flat. When I decided to stay in Kiev, Jacks landlady told me that I "must move out of that apartment and into a more expensive one". I had to move because "another guy was coming that night and had to have the flat". I said no problem and called my friend in Kiev, she said I could use her flat. Interesting how Jacks people changed their minds when I had my own flat. Suddenly, the flat I was in was instantly available again for the same price. I said okay and stayed another night. I was upset with this and felt I was being lied to about some guy coming. Either way, I stayed. The next day I went to my friends flat. I stayed there one night and new years needed another flat, they gouged me for almost double the price. Thanks jack. You see, I wanted to keep our business civil and give credit where credit is due. Your company provides good service and will take care of it's clients. I don't think it's big enough.

As for 15 or 20 girls from Tamara's agency, no way. There were only 2 or 3 girls between the ages of 26 and 31. The rest were under 23 or over 35. No thanks. Nice spin on Milena but she was very interested. I have her emails to prove it also. She had many photos of me, I have those emails also. Alot of sweet words and sweet letters. Nice try jack but it won't work. As you always say to trolls.....I have the emails for proof. I figured you to try to spin things so I kept EVERY email we ever exchanged. Now, who got who? As I said, your company is a good company, i never slammed your company. You trying to spin me into some monster who doesn't care about people was your mistake. Now, I don't support you or your company. I don't wish ill things to happen to you or your company. As for severing our ties, believe me they were severed long before I received your ridiculous email. It's interesting how NO ONE in Ukraine thought my canceling my trip to Dnep was a big deal...no one but you. I don't know what kind of deal you have worked out with Galina but I don't think any man is REQUIRED to go to any city or to do anything. Trust me, write to ANY company/agency on the net and they will accomodate your wishes. Everyone now sees that firstdream.com will not. Good luck in your business and I wish you well.

To bystanders.....relax and good luck on your trips. Jack will do you good but understand, it is not free. Not for me, not for anyone. I don't dislike Jack, I just think he's a used car salesman.

Mark H.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

It seems that very few people on here realize the way Jack works in assisting one in finding a RW/UW bride. Most people on here think that contacting agencies and looking through catalogs is the main focus, but from what I have come to understand, that should be plan B or C.

Jack stresses personal newspaper ads in Ukraine and Russia as a primary campaign months prior to planning the first trip. The agency contacts are secondary and from what he explained to me, they are usually plan B for someone who is going to meet one or two girls they have been writing and things fall through. Because of that, you have unpredictable results with the "blind" dates. It's stupid to think that at a moments whim, Jack can put together a full trip with dates already lined up turnkey without any problems. That's basically what he did for Mark, and you see the results. Without proper preparation you are not going to be very successful.

Mark doesn't have any cause to complain. He was told straight that he should be better prepared and he didn't listen. When I read his trip report, that was the first impression I got. Jack is not a Mail-Order-Bride vending machine that you travel to Ukraine or Russia, put in your $15, make and selection, and out comes your mate for life. That is the impression I got from Mark's trip report. He is complaining because he did not like the flavors of the "candy" he selected from the Jack "vending machine"... and how many of the girls did he send emails or write letters to prior to making the trip? It doesn't seem like that many now does it?

Many months back, Mark posted that he had a very unsuccessful trip and he stated that he wanted to use Jack's methods the next time. Well, he didn't listen to Jack's advice. Now he's whining about how lousy his trip was. I have no sympathy. Jack does not deserve any blame because Jack delivered. Even Mark admits that.

I've been paying attention to this board and to the many posters who are successful in their ventures. It seems that many here have success from many methods, but Jack's methods are more consistently successful but they are not for everyone, especially the impatient.

-blm

... in response to Re: Missing the scheme of things, posted by BarryM on Jan 13, 2002

Where do you get the whining from? Wake up. As for your analysis, very weak. There's a reason Jack uses agencies for plan B and C....his contacts are too weak to be plan A. As for the vending machine, get a life. That's ridiculous, fact of the matter is that Jack's vending machine was empty. That's the beef. I realize it is fruitless to contradict anything Jack has ever said or done to his faithful cronies, no worries. I wish you well but you really should cease telling others "what they did and did not agree to". How many trips have you done using Jack's system? None, thought so. just another guy on the sideline throwing stones on a subject he knows nothing about. Have fun.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: Missing the scheme of things, posted by Mark H on Jan 13, 2002

I suppose I could deconstruct your trip report, some of your rebuttals, Jacks responses and arguments, and so on. I could also hit the archives and deconstruct your old posts on your previous trips, what you posted verbatum, and so on... the same with Jacks past posts as well.

I could probably win the argument on pure rhetorical argument and logical analysis, but I don't think that would be constructive. I do read the posts very carefully, including yours and I have a fairly good memory. I don't understand your complaints against Jack and I think you go to far when you accuse him of being a used car salesman. I've known used car salesman and other people in sales and they usually don't say no to a buck.

To quote Jack directly:
"As you will re-call Mark I was not in favor of you making this trip when you did and with the little time to prepare as you had. And after voicing my opinion, you decided on going anyway at this time and just to consider it a little trip and for me to do whatever I could for you."

I don't think a used car salesman would give you such advice. Those statements can be backed up by Jack's posts on here prior to your trip where he advises forum participants to wait until spring before going wife hunting over there. It seems that you are making the same mistakes you did on your prior trips to the FSU, but now Jack is involved. I can understand why you are upset because Jack declines to do business with you now. A used car salesman would always want to get more money out of you... I don't think Jack fits the profile.

You're right that I haven't been able to make the trip over there yet. See, when I started researching this quest back in October of 2000, I was in very good financial shape and my consulting company was making lots of money. Around that time, the "Dot Bomb" hit and, although I was not in the "Dot Bomb" business directly, I have been affected by the fallout. I was doing ok until I experienced a business dropoff in late June,and early July. I would have been on the October tour Jack put together if that hadn't happened. Then of course, the attack on Sept. 11. One of my clients had their main offices in the World Trade Center. As far as I know, the company no longer exists. I have lost 70% of my revenues since October of 2000. I am currently in a holding pattern until business picks up, but I'm still preparing and learning for the future trip. I doubt that I will be able to go this spring, but I may make the summer or fall tour this year.

I'm sorry if my criticisms of you seems like throwing stones, but I really don't understand your complaints about Jack. I have the impression that, although you've been on this board for a long time, you haven't been paying attention to the good information that has been presented; especially from Jack. Thus, my criticisms on your posts here.

I understand that it's an ego and personality thing, but perhaps you should do a little soul searching about your RW/UW quest? This may not be the right thing for you to do, as you have stated in the past.

I wish you well.

-blm

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Well, Mark..., posted by BarryM on Jan 13, 2002

Hard to argue with your thought train.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Perhaps am I wrong,  but from what it is written here.  It my personal opinion, that you knew you were going to
get lucky in Kiev and the rest of the trip went over the board.
So a couple of beautiful meals along with some nice evenings, right.
Nothing is wrong with this.  So why come back and beef, you are over 21 and vaccinated, right.
Perhaps are you mad because the trip was so short, now you do know what to do.  Good luck.
You had a hell of a good trip, many more coming I hope for you.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Jack had taken the time to arrange for me to meet an agency owner during my trip.

Like you, I found a special girl on the first day (the one I flew over to meet). I wanted to spend more time with her so I didn't need to use the agency Jack recommended.

Here's where we're different... I knew this lady had spent time preparing for my visit and I knew Jack had spent his time making the arrangements for me. I didn't need the service but I felt I owed this nice lady something for her time.

My solution was asking her to escort me to an internet cafe for 1/2 hour for which I paid her slightly more than what I would have paid for an introduction. She spent a total of 1 hour with me and she was paid $20. I think that was fair to her and I got to meet another contact.

I guess my point is this, If you say you're going to do something, you should follow through. These are families who depend on our money.

I'm not defending Jack in any way. I'm trying to defend the people who count on our money. Jack is their rep here in the states but they are the ones hurt.

You have valid points and I have no intention of arguing with anyone other than Ryan. Personaly, you've all been of great help to me and I can't afford to tick any of you off.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

I don't know about the rest of you... but I find this riveting.

What I like is that no one has really started senseless name-calling. (Well, except for that used-car salesman crack...)

It is a healthy debate, and there is some interesting subtext...

What we see here are two completely different approaches.

Mark is a "do-it-yourselfer". He's made that clear for over a year.

Jack is more than an agency... he's a system. He has a definite way that he thinks you should go about things.

When the do-it-yourself guy decides to implement the system... and then loses faith in the system and "calls an audible" the results are predictible.

But interesting to read, because they both make some valid points. I like to hear why Mark though the system wasn't working. And I like to hear Jack explain why it would have if he had just had a little faith and stuck with it.

This is like the quarterback who calls for a bootleg on 3rd and 4, and gets tackled one yard shy of the first down.

Coach is furious: "What are you doing you idiot??? I called a pass play!"

QB: "Are you nuts? The defense was set to blitz and I had an opening in the middle..."

And we're like the audience listening to the argumant, caught on the sidelines by a hidden microphone...

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Reading both sides now as an objective observer I have to side with Jack on this one. Mark you basically renegned on your trip. Kiev was the appetizer to your meal in DNK. Not showing up is a cardinal "No-NO" in any endevour. "IF" you had gone to DNK and "suffered" the same fate as Kiev, well then yes by all means you have grounds to complain. But Jack would haveto be completely out of his mind, knowing that you are a long time poster on this site and had tipped off the board on several occassions that you are using Jack's services to go to Ukraine, for him not to take good care of you. The other issues are basically "he said -she said", but stiffing people that worked and planned out a trip for you and then pointing fingers doesn't cut it in my book of etiquette. Be a man about it, say "Hey I screwed up" and learn for next time.
An apology from you is what's due after all is said and done.

... in response to Re: you really want the rest of the stor..., posted by EARL on Jan 12, 2002

Earl,
There are things I cannot and will not go into on the forum regarding this trip. Jack paints a pretty picture that I "stiffed" the world on this trip. Not true. As for the apology.....remember the cold day in #$#%# saying?  Not a chance. As I have said before, I have no beef with his company or it's services. They do good to alot of men. I have no beef with that.

Here's the scenario. You're planning a trip, your so called "friend" is setting it up. You ask repeatedly about girls in this city you know nothing about. No answer. You ask repeatedly about this galina person, to contact her, anything...no answer. You ask about girls you've seen on other sites, can't go there. You ask about apartments, nothing final and no prices set in stone. All you know is that you leave on a train at 9 PM to go to some city where someone will pick you up. When you arrive in Kiev, the guy who picks you up at the airport had a total of 3 hours to prepare for your arrival. That's right, 3 hours. I thought that was strange. I guess Rostik was going to pick me up but then couldn't so this other kid Ilya picked me up. He found out about me a grand total of 3 hours before I got there. Ilya is excellent, best kid you could ever work with. Jack's got a good employee in that guy but he had no notice of my coming. Does that sound prepared? Organized? This worried me. We went to my flat, $50 bucks a night and no where near the Kreshatyk street. I could have got several apartments from several companies very near Kreshatik for $50 bucks a night. I wasn't impressed. The satelite TV didn't work, the VCR didn't work, the TV got 2 channels. The building wasn't secure, open to anyone that wanted to come in. Only during my 3rd day there was a security door being installed. I wasn't impressed but I didn't say a word or complain. Waiting for the train I went to the lunch with Milena....left a very bad taste in my mouth. Now Jack spins it...won't work. I went to the first agency and it was a joke, I didn't say anything and tried to have a good time. HOWEVER, I have friends in Kiev and didn't want to venture out of the city with Jack's company. I wrote and told him I was having such a good time in Kiev I didn't want to leave. I thought that would not be a problem, why would it? Or is it that I'm daddy warbucks for his people in this city? Sorry, not playing that. So, I decided to stay in Kiev. It's no different than a guy meeting the perfect lady and saying "why should I spend the next 3 days away from her?" Would you? let's say you met the woman of your dreams on the first day, would you leave her to go to another city? Of course not, that's the nature of this pursuit. When you find a gem, you stick with her. Why look more? I liked one girl I met the first day..very much. I didn't want to leave, so I didn't. Is that a crime? According to Jack it is. The average salary is $80 bucks a month and I had sent $75 to Dnep to reserve a flat. They kept the money, what's the problem? A months salary isn't enough? Whatever.

Anyway, I've devoted enough time to this soap opera today. Good luck to you and everyone else. Don't hold your breath waiting for the apology. The only person I would apologize to would be Galina but she's not here. I would also tell her that I had no idea of what she had done.

As for me, I graduate in just over 3 months. I may just start a rival agency in Ukraine that GIVES services away for free. A real FREE SERVICE. Hmmmm.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: you really want the rest of the ..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

You met a great girl on day one in Kiev?

Where did she come from?

FirstDream?

Or somewhere else?

... in response to Hey Mark! One thing you still haven't me..., posted by MarkInTx on Jan 12, 2002

mark,
Not from Firstdream, somewhere else. I met her through Tamara's agency. She's a nice lady, did you meet her?

Mark H.

... in response to Hey mark, long time no hear...., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Tamara? Nope... haven't met anyone in Kiev yet.

When you get a chance, drop me an email.

You still in Spain? Or are you home now?

... in response to Re: you really want the rest of the stor..., posted by EARL on Jan 12, 2002

Jack is just plain unprofessional just face it.  The guy could have handled this different but he just didn't his ego got in the way.

... in response to And here we go with the Jack supporters...., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

nt

... in response to You are a punk-assed jerk. /nt, posted by BarryM on Jan 12, 2002

n/t

... in response to You are a punk-assed jerk. /nt, posted by BarryM on Jan 12, 2002

What happened to brotherly Christian love & understanding?

... in response to Is this part of the Orthodox church prac..., posted by odeccaman1 on Jan 12, 2002

As an Orthodox even I can love and forgive punk-assed jerks like Ryan and I don't even mind telling them so.

-blm

... in response to Re: sure, posted by BarryM on Jan 13, 2002

nt

... in response to And here we go with the Jack supporters...., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Having read both sides of the posts, I see two valid points.  Mark is correct that if he decides to stay in Kiev, it is his choice to do so.  However, he should at the same time realize that if a majority of the work was done in the other city on his behalf, he has nothing to cry about in not having met sufficient ladies in Kiev for a stay longer then planned.  Since he changed the plan, it certainly becomes his responsibility to solve how he will now occupy his free time.  Subsequently blaming Jack for not enough ladies is a failure to take responsibility for his own actions.  In addition, if he cancelled the trip to the other city, he should at least have the common courtsey to realize that a great deal of work may have occured there on his behalf and should at least commpensate those that took the time and effort to arrange for his stay and meetings.  I'm a little surprised that he didn't just go down to some internet cafe and search for online agencies in Kiev.  There's a bunch of 'em and he could have easily meet hundreds of ladies there on a last minute back up plan.  Mark being somewhat experienced in this endeavor should know that if you change plans on a trip with little time to start with, you better have a back up plan ready to implement and not rely on someone else to put a last minute one together for you without sufficient time.

His attitude that he can just continue in the current apartment fails to take into consideration that it could have been rented out after his expected departure.  Having no real back up plan (other then calling his friend) leaves him vunerable to pay whatever the market is willing to bear for a sudden need.  That's just life, deal with it and pay up!

For those who use Jack's service, they should realize that he typically works with small agencies.  That is not necessarily a bad thing.  But it may limit your choices.  My experience is that the people he works with are very good and very reliable.  His trips are usually planned to run like a swiss watch.  If you remove or change on of the wheels in the watch, don't expect it to run as you had planned.

Lessons to be learned from all of this:

1)  If you have a plan, stick to it!

2)  Whether you change the plan or not, you have better have a back up plan ready to implement on a moments notice.

3)  You are responsible for your own actions, choices and decisions (period).

4)  If you change the plan, make sure you have sufficient time to implement the back up plan as you are essentially starting from scratch which will eat up a couple of days time to get it fully implemented.

5)  Changing the plan costs more money!  Be prepared to pay for changes.  There are no free rides and changes cost money.

6)  Regardless of whether you use an agency or not, know where all the agencies are in the city you are visiting prior to leaving the USA and make at least an initial contact with them saying that you will be in their city on business and you may be stopping by to visit.  Make no commitments to them but leave the doors open.  Always get their address and phone number prior to leaving the US.  Also, your first order of business is to get a map of the city once you arrive and have someone mark where the agecies are from the addresses you got from the agencies.

7)  One week trips are most often not enough time unless you are returning to see that special lady you've already met and established a relationship with.

8)  Although you are going there to meet ladies, you must be prepared for failure or things going to heck in a hand basket real quick!  Therefore, you should convince yuourself that the primary purpose, whether its your first trip or fifth trip, is to learn the culture, meet new people and have fun!  Finding that special someone is an extra added bonus (no disappoints that way)!

Finally,

9)  Don't come crying to the PL board when things go to heck because of decisions you made and are responsible for.

... in response to Thanks for the invitation (way too long ..., posted by DE on Jan 12, 2002

hey Pal,
No one came crying to the PL board. I re read my posts and I don't see where you get the crying, other than Jacks posts. I simply posted a report. I didn't bash anyone, I didn't CRY at all (re read it and you'll see, perhaps). Back up plan, what do you think I had? Of course I did and I executed it....to a tee. I'm not sure where you see that I cried I didn't meet enough girls, I simply said the agency was too small for my taste buds and suggested using a bigger agency to have a larger pool to choose from. No crying, no bashing or bad mouthing. What post did you read?

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Thanks for the invitation (way too l..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Jack told you that it was a bad idea to even go on the trip from the very beginning. It was the wrong time to go. You should have listened.

-blm

... in response to Re: Thanks for the invitation (way too l..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

hey Pal,
You better re-read your post, it was crying, plain and simple.

"I think the agency contacts are very weak. The second agency I went to consisted of a lady who met me in a pub with some books. I went out with 2 of her girls, both professional daters. You see, it costs you $15 bucks to meet one of the girls. They got a good thing going in that a guy spends the $15 bucks, the girls get a great lunch or dinner and the guy is left in the end with nothing"

Sounds like you're crying over $30 and having to pay for lunch?

"you put together a piss poor trip with no details, no girls, no contacts and expected me to just show up in Dnep"

Not crying?

"I had to move because "another guy was coming that night and had to have the flat". I said no problem and called my friend in Kiev, she said I could use her flat. Interesting how Jacks people changed their minds when I had my own flat. Suddenly, the flat I was in was instantly available again for the same price. I said okay and stayed another night. I was upset with this and felt I was being lied to about some guy coming. Either way, I stayed. The next day I went to my friends flat. I stayed there one night and new years needed another flat, they gouged me for almost double the price."

More crying?

"There were no ladies lined up, I kept trying to ask Jack about lining up ladies and he said don't worry about it"

How would you know?  You never went!  Let me know if you need a dry hankerchief.

... in response to LOL...., posted by DE on Jan 12, 2002

I need a dry hankerchief! Please! Look man, love Jack on your own dime. Sounds like the only person crying around here is you.

Smiling,
Mark H.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

But they just don't want to listen...  I know you will probably go away and not post to the board but I will never leave.  I will continue to document these reports and just keep telling the truth.  This guy we are talking about is just plan crazy.  Let the old fat guys use his service....
Ryan

... in response to It's allright mark I tried to tell this ..., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

In the end the truth comes out...

Tiy can fool some of the people all the time,
all of the people some of the time,
but you can not fool all the people all the time

Jack, why is it you are the focus of such discontent on this board.  Why do you make up porkies and false statements to denograte those that challange you and question your "advice" .  Could it be that these people are right???  I thought Marks report was very critical but supportive at the same time....  but you still needed to go on the abuse attack...  I seriously question your response having seen your lies and actions and I know the truth...

Others nay think you are always right....  but many know the truth.  This is not good for business and I can see why??

As Mark said...  Rostiks services YES....  others no...  best advoce is for the girls to find other contacts... and should the guys.

Jack you are your own wost enemy...

... in response to you guys are not the only ones..., posted by x on Jan 14, 2002

nt

... in response to It's allright mark I tried to tell this ..., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Ryan,
Come on guy don't be so hard on guys in general. Jack's not crazy, he's a business man. The only part I disagree with is coming here and pretending to be a buddy and not a business man. His company fulfilled all it said it would, no problems there. He's out for cash and that is it. Two years ago when he helped Dan and a bunch of other guys it was because he was building his business. The guy isn't stupid. If he showed up here saying "pay me and I'll help" no one would give him the time of day. He took his time and over the course of two years has built up his business. That's fine, the american dream. However, crapping on anyone who doesn't agree or DEMANDING people go places they don't want to go is insane. Also, demeaning and slandering agencies who compete with him is wrong also. His company will take care of you and provide the services offered, I just think he's a control freak that will never control me. Who the heck is any agency to tell you that you MUST go somewhere or else? Screw you I say. So, be cool to the guys looking. If you hate Jack that is fine but try not to make blanket statements Ryan about guys being old and fat, that's not nice and not always the case. I don't read the board enough to know why you hate Jack so much but my tiff with him is my tiff, no one elses. Take care and don't worry about me posting, I've been here LONGER than Jack and don't plan to go anywhere.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: It's allright mark I tried to tell t..., posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

You are correct, I should be nicer.  Jack has made me into a troll and I keep playing into it.  It is just that he just lies right to your face that gets me.  But yes I am sorry to everyone for being like I have been.  This board is good place to get information and read some trip report etc.  We all know it is Jacks Place and he get business from here.  It is his jobs to get the people funnel them to his contacts in EU and let it go.  It is his job to defend himself to no end even with personal attacks.  He is unprofessional but I guess that is not a requirement, customer comes first is also not required.

... in response to No your right...., posted by Ryan on Jan 12, 2002

Ryan,
That's the spirit, don't sweat the small stuff. Jack only makes your life as miserable as you let him. Don't let him. Contribute useful stuff, ask interesting questions, learn phenomenal things but don't lower yourself to his troll baiting tactics. He means well just can't handle anything outside the lines as he has defined them. Move on and grow, leave him in the soil. There are enough guys here who can genuinely help without MONEY involved. Jack is a middleman, bypass him.

Mark H.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Well Mark, the good news is that ole Jack won't be gouging you anymore?

To rebute your last claims in the order in which you made them,...beautiful apartments, yes we have many, and they are priced from $50 to $60. When you said you can only spend $40 a night Mark, we can't put you in one of these flats, sorry.......  Many girls, we had a LOT of girls for you Mark! Where were you spending all your time Mark? In Dnepropetrovsk! Where were all the girls for you Mark? In Dnepropetrovsk!....Your spending two days in Kiev Mark, gee, I'm sorry the 7 or 8 ladies you saw in Kiev were not enough girls!....Galina working her tail off? Mark, in all those e-mails that you kept, I'm sure you will see the one where I tell you Galina is amazed at all the ladies she has interested in meeting you. It is the same e-mail where Galina commented on if this was how many ladies who were interested in you with just the ladies she was showing your photo and profile to, she could only imagine the response you would get by running an ad for a week. Do you see that e-mail Mark? Anyone who knows Galina will vouch for the type of worker she is. She busted her ass for you, she would have anyway but when I asked for her and Rostick to try even harder, and they did, well this was the straw that broke the camal's back as far as me wanting to try to do any further work for you. How dare you question how hard Galina worked for you, you will never know how hard she worked for you because you did not follow through with the plans that you had told us you wanted. All our efforts were foccused in Dnepropetrovsk, and you knew this. There were a LOT of ladies hoping to meet you in Dnepropetrovsk because Galina did work her ass off for you.

Hey Mark, you are right about you asking me about the ladies lined up to meet you in Dnepropetrovsk and me replying don't worry about it. WHY do you think I was telling you not to worru about it? Because there were so many for you to choose from you FOOL!

Mark I told you about an agency in Dnepropetrovsk where we could escort you to but that Galina could not go in with you because she was a formable competitor and they would not want her inside there office. But Galina would wait outside for you while you went inside.

We put together a very good trip for you based on the time you had before the trip, not a piss poor as you claim. You told me you did NOT want to stay in Kiev and to arrange for you to meet MANY ladies in Dneopropetovsk, which we did. How can you say that the trip was piss poor, we delivered Mark, you didn't!

The night you were to leave for Dnepropetrovsk Galina was told you were not coming That's notifying her with plenty of time Mark? For you it is probably is.

As far as the flat that you commited to renting in Dnepropetrovsk in which we left the flat owners with an un-occupied flat during the holiday season and you say that is another story. I am curious, what would that other story be?

You had rented a flat in Kiev for only two days because you were then heading to Dnepropetrovsk, remember, after your second day it was rented to someone else, so ofcourse you had to leave! It is good thing you had a friend in Kiev to call, (thank you Jack for running that free ad for me). I am sorry you felt like you were lied to about this flat Mark. I guess the couple in Dnepropetrovsk who thought they were renting there flat out to you also felt like they were lied to!

Mark, you were told in advance, please check all your e-mails, you were told that the price for flats increase on December 30, 31 and January 1 as many people coming from out of town rent flats during the celebration. Can you find those e-mails that tell you that Mark?  So why did it come as a surprise to you when I told you a month in advance that the price for flats cost more on the 30, 31 and 1st. It's in the e-mails Mark, I guess you must have forgot! I appreciate you trying to keep our business civil and I am sure it was just an oversight on your part that I had told you about the price increase at this time. I think you using the term gouged is because you are trying to paint your whole experience in a different light now. You were told the flats cost more at this time Mark. I don't call it gouging Mark. It has been this way for a long time and you were notified about the price increase.

Regarding Tamara's agency, well your a very choosey man Mark, as all men are different, if there were only two or three ladies (yesterday I thought it was six) that interested you there is nothing I can say or do about that. I guess if your original plans were to stay in Kiev we would have tried to get you more ladies from Kiev, but we were doing as you instructed us and that you did not want to spend in time in Kiev!

Mark, have you got the original letter you sent to Milena? Good, read it. Do you tell her your age? Nope! Do you tell her what you do for a living? Nope! As I told you, she told Rostick she knew nothing about you and didn't feel comfortable meeting with you, these were her own words and please feel free to ask Rostick if you wish.

As for severing our ties, you say they were severed before you received my e-mail to you indicating I could no longer work with you but in your previous e-mail you write me how wonderful things are, how thankful you are and you had met some wonderful ladies. Funny how you wrote that e-mail of great satisfaction but now you are saying you had really severed your relationship with Firstdream prior to you sending that e-mail?? Hummm Mark, I think I don't agree with that. I think they were severed after you got my e-mail, not before. But hey, you still have the e-mail right, go back and read it!

You write "Trust me, write to ANY company/agency on the net and they will accomadate your wishes". Well Mark, I told you this before, I am not like any other agency. Please look at the rules posted on my Group Tours, you will see one rule that is posted so that I don't have to deal with guys who did what you did. If you sign up for one of my group tours and you make a committment to see ladies in both cities, I expect you to do so. If you cannot honor this rule, don't sign up with my company. Read it for yourself Mark, it's in black and white. I am sure no other agency/company will put such in writing, maybe it's not a big deal to them, but it is to me.

I only want to deal with sincere men. I have enough business that I can elect to only deal with sincere men. If I had any idea you were going to stand up the ladies in Dnepropetrovsk, if I had any idea that I would have had Galina go to so much work and effort for you, if I had any idea that you were not going to honor your committment to the people who we were renting the flat from, I would not have done business with you. And as I wrote you in the e-mail to you on December 27th and in yesterday's message, I feel if you can do this once you can do it again and I will not put my people or these ladies at this risk again.

And in rebuttal to your last statement,...For Sale, 63 chevy, 283, fuzzy dice hanging from mirror.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story, Y..., posted by Jack on Jan 12, 2002

Jack,
For two years now I have watched you "spin" information aimed at many people who don't agree with you. You are the MASTER of spin. That is why you are the HEAD of the USED car department.

I have no clue how hard Galina worked, I have no clue how many girls wanted to meet me, I had no clue about ANY of that....perhaps you should have told me. Duh.  As for your business, it is QUITE transparent that you use this forum to drum up business. I KNOW you get a cut of everything that takes place in ukraine. You pretend to help for free, wait...you charge $50 bucks now right? and pretend that is all you get. I have you figured out bud and I also realize that it is fruitless to give ones opinion because the master of BS is going to spin it anyway. No one has said your company sucks. I said it fulfilled what it offered. I also said I prefer a larger company with more organization.

Bottom line is you're full of crap Jack. You can spin words all you want but NOW is not the time to divuldge all you "supposedly" had planned. It's too late. It doesn't do anyone any good now. It's very easy after the fact to say "Oh, I had so much planned for you. There were so many girls who wanted to meet you." Very easy to say this. If this was the case, why didn't you tell me beforehand. Isn't that the way business works?

No one needs to vouch for Galina, why would they? More of your spin, trying to insinuate that I somehow don't "trust" or "believe" Galina. Those are your words pal. I'll keep this engagement going, it'll only show your ignorance.

The difference is that I don't need firstdream.com. I used your services because we had been "friends" for a couple of years. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what you have done.

This is what Jack Bragg has done:

1. Piss off half of Ukraine. Not good. I hate to say it but it appears that one day it'll catch up to him. Every day more and more native Ukrainians hate the guy. Oh yeah, it's cuz he exposes them as scammers.....yeah whatever. They may not get him in America but he'll be hard pressed one day to return to Ukraine with his wife. Sounds like alot of people there are looking for him. Wouldn't want them pissed at me.

2. Recruit a few english speaking guys and gals to be his "employees". Real difficult.

3. Come to PL Board little over two years ago and fight with everyone in sight, especially Elena regarding socials and taking chicks to McDonalds for dates.

4. Pretend to be everyone's buddy and good guy as he slowly builds his clientele. Nothing wrong with that but call a spade a spade.

5. Argue, fight, and degrade ANYONE who doesn't agree with him. Most guys probably put up with you just to use your services. Guys, wake up...companies are a dime a dozen that provide better services than Jack.

Another Jack spin, I did say 6 or 7 firls in Kiev interested me but re read the post Einstein...I said only two seemed sincere to me.

Jack, the organization of the trip was poor. I had a good time because I ALWAYS have a good time no matter where I go or what I do. With or without you, not a problem. You act like you are the only non scamming agency in the world. Get real. I tried to keep this civil, I tried to not bash your poorly run business but you wouldn't let it go. You had to continue running your OVERSIZED mouth. Spin all you want, this is not my livelihood as it is yours. Bottom line is I went on a trip, didn't want to go to Dnep and you had a fit. That's the bottom line. Now, you try to paint the picture that I'm an uncaring, selfish guy who stood up half of ukraine. Give me a break. I really don't give a crap what anyone thinks, it's easy to see you're just doing damage control for your own SELF interests. Control you didn't need to do had you just left it alone.

Smiling while typing,
Mark H.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Hi Mark,

You haven't lost your 'touch' for raising some eyebrows (and some hackles, I suspect) --smile--.

I don't know if it will help, but I thought I'd add just a bit to the mix.

As most know, I am a supporter of Jack's - and for the following reasons:

* Some years back, when I first met Jack, he offered freely of his time and knowledge. We met during one of my business trips to Dallas in the lobby of the hotel where I was staying. While there, he showed me photos, discussed his 'lessons learned', talked about various strategies and tactics, compared notes about our travels - and generally had a great discussion about the pros and cons, opportunities and pitfalls, successes and failures - arising from this pursuit. Jack didn't expect any payment for any of this - though I probably learned a lot more and got more out of the time than Jack did.

* A little more than a year ago, while Olya and I were in Ukraine and made an excursion to Lviv, we ran into a VERY serious problem involving the landlord of the apartment we rented in Kyiv (NOT through Jack BTW). The problem was so severe that I was threatened with "forcible FSB repatriation" and there were several times that we saw, and avoided, militsia hanging around our apartment at unusual times and in unusual places. I ended up speaking to the US Embassy's Regional Director of Security to work out a response plan. Anyway, Jack became aware of the problem (through Rostik, I think) and began to call me. He called frequently - and we also worked out a set of contingencies should the situation have gone awry. Very fortunately, everything stayed 'within the banks', but it was a tense and potentially dangerous period - and Jack was there with me the entire time - at *his* expense.

I don't mean to defend Jack - only to recount a couple of my actual experiences on the other side of the ledger.

Now, it should also be noted that I do not always agree with Jack. There are actually quite a few things that we do not see eye-to-eye about, but I consider those things as a package, and on-balance, I find Jack to be quite a good guy.

He is clearly a strong-minded and forceful personality - just as you are. Anyone that has read the board will undoubtedly see the truth in that comment about both of you.

I also see Jack as being protective (understandably) of FirstDream. Combine the facts that Jack is a strong personality with his natural protective qualities - add a little Texas 'charm' (a kind word for arrogance --smile--) - along with his unquestioned experience in the FSU - and you have all the ingredients for a situation such as you experienced.

Nothing I am saying is meant to dismiss any of your experiences Mark. They are what they are, and I believe everything you have said.

I also believe that Jack did what *he* said and went to some lengths to try to make your trip especially fruitful because of your long history with Jack. I truly do believe that - even though it may not have seemed so to you.

I think it is a shame that you two would come to loggerheads over this situation - though I can, quite clearly, see how it could develop.

Maybe one way of thinking about it is - Jack and FirstDream offer a unique service. They are in the 'boutique' agency business offering a more personalized service than the big agencies. Along with that personalized service comes expectations on both sides of the equation - and it is possible that those expectations were not clearly communicated or understood - on both sides in your particular transaction. Also, when one does business with FirstDream, one is doing business with Jack Bragg as well. For many, that will be just fine and they will enjoy the experience. For some, however, Jack's unique gifts and talents and character, will push certain personality types away. So be it. That is just human nature.

Anyway - just my $.02 worth - and it may not be worth that --smile--.

I wish you the best of luck Mark. You really are a good guy and have been at this a long time. The experiences you've gained will be with you a lifetime and I suspect you will soon find the lady to become your life-partner - at least, I hope so.

Please keep in touch and don't disappear from the board as you've done before. Your inputs are quite useful, and though I can imagine a lot of different thoughts must be passing through your mind - many here will benefit from your experiences.

Cheers,

- Dan

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

Mark,
Sorry that things didn't work out great for you, but there is still hope with the one girl that caught your interest, right?  Maybe that will evolve into something.  I wish you the best.

I do want to congratulate both you and Jack for handling your dispute like MEN.  I relate to strong willed guys like the both of you and can understand BOTH sides of your stories.  It is refreshing to see two opposing views stated as well as the two of you have done.  It is far too often that we see some whiney girlie-man fight like a little beetch. (You listening Ryan?)  Please don't let this dispute go that way.

I understand that when things weren't going as you planned, you thought that taking things into your own hands would help.  It didn't work out great, even taking that action.  But you will never know what you missed out on by not going to the other city.  You cannot hold Jack accountable for the entire lack of success, if you didn't follow the plan.  From the posts, it sounds as though Kiev was a secondary phase of the plan at best.  You alone decided to switch to "plan B".  I am sure that taking that action upset Jack because he wanted to do so well for you.  You have been a big voice here in the past and I am sure that it was in Jack's best interest for you to have a great trip.  His disappointment with you scewing up his well laid plan would of course cause him to "blow a gasket".  Strong willed guys like you and I amd Jack will do that sometimes.
KenC

... in response to Mark & Jack, posted by KenC on Jan 12, 2002

You are a master in the art of diplomacy. Probably a necessary trait to survive in a marriage with a strong willed RW. I'm still learning LOL.

... in response to you really want the rest of the story......, posted by Mark H on Jan 12, 2002

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