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For those of you wanting to meet the lady of your dreams I suggest just going there ( any country ) and try a combination of meeting girls via the internet, and try meeting ladies there naturally. You may not be lucky on your first trip, ( like I was )But you will get a feel for things. By doing this you will not be disapointed by failure, but will gain much needed knowledge in the search for a life long partner.
Mike

... in response to My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

Mike:

Where did you travel to, that made it easy to meet women casually? I'm just curious if it was big city or small, or Russia or Ukraine?

Chip

... in response to My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

I agree wholeheartedly with your post, but do have some reservations. If you're not a strong guy you will benefit from the help of an agency. I think it's an individualized thing. I've made 4 trips alone and one with an agency. Agencies have their place and can make your life easier. The key is to pick a good agency. Smile.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mark H on Jan 14, 2002

n/t

... in response to My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

If you go with an agency everything is spoon-fed to you.  You look at the pictures you pay the money you go to the agency parties more meet and greet.  No time to take a breath.  No I have no experience doing that but I feel just by looking at it that there is little room for getting to really know someone or getting to know the people or even a little custom of these people.  You have to weed through the professional daters and the scammers.  And if you have never been to the Ukraine like I have it seems to me you would be a sure setup to lose more money that is necessary.  Just my feelings on this issue, I have read other posts here and actually have been over to the Ukraine myself.  
Ryan

... in response to Ok... My thoughts are..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

Lemme get this straight...

You spent $4000 to meet a scammer... and you want to give us all advice?

Hmmm... seems to me that if I spent that much and ended up with a scammer, my posts would start out:

"DON'T do what I did. It didn't work out at all!"

I'm glad you enjoyed yourself, and all... but hookers are cheaper in the states, ya know...

I mean... really... unless you have a large amount of cash that you are just dying to give away... you can meet a scammer for a lot less.

Just pick out a good ol' scam site (my favorite: www.babesmatch.com... just loaded with "sincere" and scantily clad women) Write to one of them. (Cost $10). Pay the "Agency" to arrange your trip. (Cost...varies, but probably $2500) And go over, "Have a good time"

And kiss your money and time goodbye.

For those of you who DON'T want to do that... listen to the advice of those like Ken, Patrick, and yes, even Jack, who have DONE this SUCCESSFULLY, and are trying to help...

... in response to Ryan, I gotta admire your chutzpah... bu..., posted by MarkInTx on Jan 14, 2002

You are very hard on him.  He said he lost four grands on a girl, but he doesn't seem mad at her from his post.
He still send money to her to help.
It is my profound beliefs that we all have to make our own  experiences. What is good for one may not be for another guy.
Also, when do we know when we shall fall in love.
This is love we are taking about, not just getting a living partner, if I do understand the goal of this board.
Perhaps the board should change name, from getting a mail order bride in the eastern countries, to fallling in
love in the eastern countries.
I can think of "Blue Angel", which is (was) a form of love.
Another one was "Arthur".     Madame Bovary also, could go on and on.
*********************************
Another subject, ok.

Has anybody here read "The Shipping News", because I am reading the book in french, right now, it is call,
"Knots and undoing of knots",  this book is a masterpiece.  After the book, I am going to see the movie.

... in response to Ryan, I gotta admire your chutzpah... bu..., posted by MarkInTx on Jan 14, 2002

Mark,
If Ryan had spent his money on hookers, he would have at least gotten laid instead of crying for pity sex.  The boy has no sense, no maturity and worst of all, no pride.
KenC

... in response to you're wrong Mark, posted by KenC on Jan 14, 2002

Though there is that whole STD thing to think about...

... in response to Ok... My thoughts are..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

Ryan,
I wish you would quit talking out your butt.  You are way off base with your guesses on how it is to work with an agency.  A good agency will help you in every way you WANT them to help and they will also give you the freedom to have as much personal time as you desire.  A good agency will also be able to give you some idea as to the character, personality and background of the girls you are interested in.  Going over "blind" and trolling for dates is foolish.  I certainly would not travel to the other side of the world with hopes to meet some women without having some definite dates already set up.

I DID work with an agency and was very satisfied with their performance.  I knew my wife before I went to meet her through 2 months of daily phone calls.  The agency also pushed me to meet other women on my trip as a plan B.  This was very smart on their part and very good advice.  As it turned out I didn't need the plan B, but I did meet some other very nice women.  A good agency will be very helpful in introducing you to women they think will be suitable for you.  After that, you have all the freedom to do what you want.  The agency I worked with provided interpreters and a driver 24/7.  The time I didn't spend with my wife, I used them as tour guides and even traveled to Moscow for a day trip.

My advice is that a guy should have a number of women lined up before he travels to the FSU.  These do not have to be serious relationships, but the basics should be established.  You should KNOW that there is a POSSIBILITY of a serious relationship.  You should know that you want to meet the women and that they want to meet you too.  To go over "blind" is foolish because you don't have to do it that way and you always have the opportunity to meet someone at a club, McDonalds or on the street once you are there.
KenC

... in response to wrong, again, posted by KenC on Jan 14, 2002

Maybe one should take notice that the subject was : My personal recomendation only! Perhaps some people are not able to spend a month or two making contacts via the internet, or have never done anything without someone holdng their hand. I can only say that I went to Moscow after playing on the net, making some contacts, and had several back up plans, and was lucky on my first trip ( I never even took the time to meet the contacts I made before going ) and had a heck of a good time, while only spending less then $3000 for a 3 week stay in the center of Moscow, and that included my flight and visa. I had plans to go all over Russia meeting ladies I met over the net, and as soon as I was in Moscow a few days I decided to stay there with my eyes poping out at all the hot ladies I seen everywhere. Half way through my stay my now wife stole my heart in a McDonalds there! Anyway had I not met her, or had I not met other friendly ladies, I still could say I had a great time, and would be much more prepared if a second trip was needed.

No need to step on peoples toes over personal recomendations.

Mike

... in response to Re: wrong, again, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

Mike,
First of all my post was directed at Ryan's comments.  I took exception to his view that agencies restrict the time you have to spend with someone you want to get to know better.  His general attitude is that all agencies are bad and all agency owners are pimps is simply wrong.  Please note that Ryan has spent a total of 10 days in Ukraine and has never delt with an agency.  His trip was futal because the one woman he went to see (who he had previously sent $4K) couldn't stand to even be alone with him.  How this experience can put him in any position to advise anyone, is beyond me.  I will continue to jump on the mis-information that he posts.

As for your experience, I say great!  You can meet the woman of your dreams ANYWHERE.  But even you had a back up plan.  I went to meet the one woman I was interested in.  We fell madly in love and have been married for almost 3 years now.  That was great for us, but the likelyhood of THAT scenareo happening for someone else is slim at best. You and I were lucky, others may not have such good luck.  They may have to have a better plan and not rely on just luck.
KenC

... in response to Re: wrong, again, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

I think his post was directed at Ryan not you. And some guys can pull off more independant trips. It depends on the person. I could do an independant trip now. I don't think I could've have a year ago. I didn't know what I was getting into. I just put my faith in my girl and away I went. It could have been bad if she hadn't helped me so much. I did have the agency for backup but she did most of the work.

I've also been told that it's a lot easier for foreigners to get around in Moscow than other Russian cities. I know that in my 3 months in Russia I only met a handful of people who spoke any English. Most of them were in Moscow.

... in response to Re: Re: wrong, again, posted by Zink on Jan 14, 2002

I appologize, I thought it was directed at me.

I must say I have not traveled outside of Moscow when I was there, and you are most likely correct about how easy it is for a forigner in Moscow, because it seemed very easy to meet ladies that spoke English, or at least knew a little.

I did go independent and used no agencies, but I did have a translator meet me at the airport and she was always a phone call away if I was to need her. She was a BIG help the first 2 days while I got to learn the basics of the city, and where to go, and how to travel around. I think having someone there in the begining is a must. It can be a girl you have wrote to, or a translator, but the main thing is to always have a back-up plan for everything, and an independent trip can be very rewarding and hassle free!

... in response to wrong, again, posted by KenC on Jan 14, 2002

Ken is giving good advice....

And he's not just pumping Firstdream here, since he actually used a different agency.

The point stands, though. A good agency is VERY valuable.

I cannot imagine what my last trip to Russia would have been like without help...

... in response to wrong, again, posted by KenC on Jan 14, 2002

Ken, I agree with you whole heartedly.  However, the agency you dealt with has pretty much had all of its gorgeous women without children fished out.  They are having a hard time repopulating the pond.  I have yet to find an agency nearly as good as the one you and I both went to in Tver.  The key thing is to find a large decent agency with alot of really pretty women in a large or fairly large city who honestly want a good American man.

... in response to Re: wrong, again, posted by hockeybrain on Jan 14, 2002

Hockey,
I don't know about that.  I see some fine looking women added to their site all the time.  I know that it is a matter of taste, but I also see some very nice women that I met in person still available too.  The one big "shortcoming" I know about with Lifetime Partners is that photography is very weak.  The website photos of my wife were the very worst ones I have ever seen of her!  It wasn't until they provided a new photo of her that I was blown away with her beauty.  Maybe you should hit them up for an updated video and see who has been added?  I also have a suspicion that it is the size of the city that is important too.  Tver is not too big or too small and it is close enough to Moscow to have it's influence without having the "big city" attitudes.  A good agency, a little pricey, but sincere people.
KenC

... in response to My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

I think if someone is taking the time and trouble to go to the FSU they should do something to increase their odds of success then just randomly going to a few agencies when you arrive and hanging out at the local parks, cafes or nightclubs.  As far as I am concerned some form of preparation or planning is far superior to leaving everything to just being there.

... in response to My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

you have got it, mike,  a little work with the agency and
putting more efforts trying to meet them naturally, come
summer time.  They are all outside, then.
Spring time, after hibernation, everybody is ready to fall
in love.  And most of all the girls are prettier in the
spring.

... in response to Re: My personal recomendation only !, posted by micha1 on Jan 14, 2002

Oh yes I agree I went in Middle of June and it was just right not so hot but just good enough to see the nipples on the women in their tights shirts standing up.. LOL  Some out door concerts in Kiev were awsome...

... in response to Re: Re: My personal recomendation only !, posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

I have refrained from adding to the floodgate of substantially justified criticism that has been leveled at your posting but your nipple comment was something a 13 y.o. would say.  I would suggest you do two things:  1) think before you write and 2)  grow up.  If you can't do either or both, your presence on this board is most undesirable and distasteful.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: My personal recomendation on..., posted by Charles on Jan 14, 2002

My god what a bunch of old farts........Lighten up will ya...

... in response to Was it really that bad?, posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

One trait typical of trolls such as Ryan, mdante99, DavidSD, etc is their huge ego's and their scornful attitudes towards the decent members of the board. Ryan is not really serious about anything other than causing problems on here; which he considers to be fun and games. A careful analysis of his posts will reveal that. He already admitted that he is a troll... why would someone who is serious admit such a thing?

Ryan is trying to push the envelope and see how far he can go and how much trouble he can cause before the plug is pulled on him.

-blm

... in response to Ryan wants to be banned..., posted by BarryM on Jan 14, 2002

I was just wondering how long it would take him to reveal himself.  People with big egos usually aren't really all that smart because they're too dumb to know how dumb they are.

... in response to Was it really that bad?, posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

Frankly, I'm tired of every time I log on to see your mindless drivel.  You have a terrible case of diarrhea of the mouth about "approaches" that makes no logical or practical sense and your track record to date puts you in no position to give reliable advice.  I would suggest trying some of the techniques that have actually worked in order to find a RW for life -- if that's really what you want.

... in response to Re: Re: My personal recomendation only !, posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

Now that is something befitting your adolescent mindset.

- Dan

... in response to "Nipples on the women . . .", posted by Dan on Jan 14, 2002

How right you are, when you say adolescent mindset.  The nipple, the breast are for kids.
As for me, I do, dearly, love to walk behind them and look at where the action is, really.
Looking at where I would love to sink my tongue.    It a matter of appreciation and taste, very rewarding in the
long run.

... in response to Re: "Nipples on the women . . .&quo..., posted by micha1 on Jan 14, 2002

....Your'e broken and unreadable!

What you talkin bout Monsewer? That be a powerful queer thing to say!

Man! You be startin to worry me. lol, is that the French in ya peekin out?

... in response to Re: "Nipples on the women . . .&quo..., posted by micha1 on Jan 14, 2002

,

... in response to @SS LICKER...., posted by ,, on Jan 14, 2002

nt

... in response to @SS LICKER...., posted by ,, on Jan 14, 2002

Ifyou only knew, perhaps are you missing the best part.
Hoping you will grown up to know what is good.

... in response to "Nipples on the women . . .", posted by Dan on Jan 14, 2002

Never argue with a fool. He has nothing to lose.
Dan, you're a decent guy who gives a lot of good advice. I know some guys who've met you and speak very highly of you. Ryan's already dug his own hole. It'd be a shame if you went down there with him. I'm hoping that most of the guys who read this board are smart enough to recognise valid advice when they see it.

On a side note I don't remember how you met your wife. Maybe you should give us a post on how to do it right?

... in response to Read my Norwegian advice below, posted by Zink on Jan 14, 2002

I do second Zink in his request,  how and how,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

... in response to "Nipples on the women . . .", posted by Dan on Jan 14, 2002

Well it's true I have never seem so many points on women it was nuts walking around that city.  They even had manikins in the stores that had the same tits.  What do they put wax on them or what?

... in response to Re: "Nipples on the women . . .&quo..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

that would make anyone beleive that you are a total "zero". And with zero credibility.  I do not know just what special vacumn you live in---but there are "points" all over the place.  Do yourself a favor...go to Vegas for a week or the beach at Malibu...lottsa "points".

... in response to Ryan,  its stupid posts like this..., posted by tim360z on Jan 15, 2002

Get a grip will ya.  It was a simple "funny post" and something that I noticed while in Ukraine.  I mean in the U.S. you really do not see this like I did and with the U.S. over 2/3 of the population being obese and all it goes to figure.  I have never seem manikins in the malls around here like that with the nipples all hard and all… Oh I said it again…  Sorrrrryyyyyyyyyyyy……

... in response to Re: Ryan,  its stupid posts like this..., posted by Ryan on Jan 15, 2002

maybe you should give up on FSU women and get yourself a FSU mannequin.

... in response to Ryan,, posted by Stan B on Jan 15, 2002

New twist on mail order brides.  You assemble...ROFLOL

... in response to Re: Ryan,  its stupid posts like this..., posted by Ryan on Jan 15, 2002

Jack gets a lot of heat for being rough on some people, but he seems to be right on the money. You are a perfect example of his good judge of character. You continue to prove yourself to be an egotistical idiot low-life and your presence here is a detriment to the forum. Of course that is your purpose here. I see right through you and so does most everyone else.

-blm

... in response to Ya know, stupid moron troll Ryan..., posted by BarryM on Jan 15, 2002

n/t

... in response to Re: "Nipples on the women . . .&quo..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

Keep 'em coming Cryin' RYAN - you're showing all of us what's important to you, ace.

- Dan

... in response to My personal recomendation only !, posted by Mike on Jan 14, 2002

I agree everyone should just go to the country and hang out maybe even stop by an agency and look through the catalogs maybe go out on a date or two but for the most part just take it easy see how they live, try and feel what they feel.  You will have much more confidence and insight for your second trip.

Side note: Anyone watch the Simpson’s last night.  Moe changed his bar around because he wanted a new image or something...  Anyway this guy who helped him changed his image had these models that he wanted Moe to meet.  Moe went over sets at this table with them all, they were all Russian woman.  Moe goes “So you are all from Russia”.. “Da” they all reply.  Then he says. “So you all think I am good looking” They all look at the floor with a sad face. “Da.”  It was a classic, so true in their response.  Moe is ugly as all get out everyone that watched the Simpson’s knows this…

... in response to I agree and a side note..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

n/t

... in response to How Would YOU Know Ryan??  n/t, posted by Dan on Jan 14, 2002

You see DAN this is how I am different.  I do not feel it necessary to have some agency hold my hand and make all these arrangements that gouge your for more money than necessary.   I did it by myself and with help from my one friend that I went to see; got the apartment for $50 it was a nice two bedroom, kitchen laundry everything off Independent Square on the McDonalds side.  I had train ticket purchased by my friend at low cost (As you know two prices for everything one for American one for Ukraine local people etc). Taxi two and from airport and train station all by a friend of a friend at low cost...  Travel the subways was a blast as I am froma small town and don't get to do that all the time.  
Ryan

... in response to Follow up..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

But it doesn't explain how it is you claim to be such an expert that you can recommend people to just go over and hang out a while.

I can see Mike's motives in making the suggestion. He benefits by renting out apartments in Moscow, and since he doesn't have any other services to sell - his motto is "Just Do It".

You, OTOH, all you have to show for your marvelous 10-day, one-time visit is the experience of crying for sex and seeing a few sights.

Seen everything in Kyiv?!? Not a chance little boy.

Pay attention. Learn a little. Maybe next time, you won't have to cry.

- Dan

... in response to Small-Town Boy RYAN. That Explains the P..., posted by Dan on Jan 14, 2002

Oh here we go again...  No sex was involved and I was not crying for the pity sex.  I was crying (Yes I feel real stupid for doing that and I understand how it was not being a man etc. etc. another lesson learned) because of the miscommunication.  She though that I only wanted sex!  She started crying becuase she liked me and believe me to be a good person but becuase of the misunderstanding (We had no translator just her and I and her mother, mother was away with friends) she thought I wanted sex and she started crying (Becuae of all the stories that American men come to that country to sleep around) and ran into another room etc.  I was also upset because she felt this than I was sort of crying myself thought she might understand that I didn't mean it that way and yes it did work a little but for the most part it was stupid.  (Lesson better to meet the woman that speak english with some understanding)

Yes I went all over the place in Kiev chuches, boat rides, just about as much as you could be in 5 day ok... Is that good?  No not everything give me a break.  

No I am no expert but I have made all the clasic mistakes and know the do's and don't first hand.  Better to get all that out than to go to an agency fall in love with a picture meet the girl a couple time and get her to the states and screw it all up and have he run off etc and lose lots more money and pride etc.  Yes I am learning in my own way and I am just sharing that.  I stick to my guns I do have experience and can and do give sound advice.
Ryan

... in response to Re: Small-Town Boy RYAN. That Explains t..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

When vets who have been traveling to Ukraine and Russia for nearly 10 years tell you that you're full of it, you should get a clue. The only "advice" you seem to be stressing lately is harrassing Jack, who has you pegged rightly as a moron. The only "experience" you have is that of a tourist... and you can't even speak the language.

Since you choose to behave in such a stupid way, other board members are going to hammer on you until you shut up or leave. What is all boils down to with you stupid troll morons is ego. You post to stroke your ego, nothing more.

Take a hike.

-blm

... in response to You don't know crap, Ryan., posted by BarryM on Jan 14, 2002

ggg

... in response to Vets w/10 years experience and no luck?!..., posted by Stevo on Jan 14, 2002

You're being facetious Stevo. Perhaps I should qualify my remarks. Vets with 5 - 10 years of business and travel experience in the FSU.

-blm

... in response to You don't know crap, Ryan., posted by BarryM on Jan 14, 2002

Jack? He makes it all up as he goes along anything that he posts about getting slammed he has brought that upon himself.  Yes he has some good advice no problem but I disagree with his business.  I will not stop posting my views and I will not leave.
Ryan

... in response to Re: Small-Town Boy RYAN. That Explains t..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

ryan, if no one spoke english, how did you communicate with her and the family for the week?

... in response to how did you communicate?, posted by ron on Jan 14, 2002

We all knew a little just a little I had training from a local community college and we used a dictionary for other things.  I did have a translator in Lugansk that was a friend of my friends I gave her $5.00 she was way happy...  Her brother also had some training in english as did the girl I met but very little.  It was not easy but for the most part there was really no problem with language thing except for my misunderstanding WOW that sucked it really not a big issue, I think people make more of it than needed.  Just another way for agencies to get money.
Ryan

... in response to Follow up..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

i wonder ryan, if you had an agency to hold your hand, would you have been scammed for $4000?

... in response to Re: Follow up..., posted by ron on Jan 14, 2002

$4000 to one woman?  That had gotten a little blown out of proportion.  Yes I sent my friend money and lots of it by their standards. (You know she never asked for it in the beginning it was me that started sending it)  $4000 was total including my trip so about $1500 was for my friend.  Yes I did make that wrong choice but you know she was there for me and we did have some good times.  Yes I did see how her and her family lived and yes I felt good then and today giving it to her and her family.  Only mistake was that I sort of Americanized her or gave her false expectations, it is still the wrong choice I made for many reasons.  That was my lesson learned.  I still say it was the best way to go and could have been done the same if I get her money or not. (Well she would have needed some to get to Kiev)  No she never asked for a dime it was me that gave it because I felt sorry.  That is the true she NEVER asked for money in the beginning.  After we met she did ask for help but never said this much or do this etc.  If you want to know the truth, I still give her money today!  Yes that is right, not as much but I still throw her a few dollars now and then.  I feel good doing it, as I know first hand what it is like.  (Better than lining some agency guys pocket that lies and cheats for it) No one will ever take what I experienced away from me!  Yes I am still looking for other woman and still looking for my one true love as the girl and her family that I give money to is really not my type (real poor and mean poor) and has issues (Sort of moody) but she is still a good person as is her mother, father and brother.  I just don't know how to explain it any different.  It's my big heart...  But I do know for sure that going over there is best before you spend all that money on professional daters and the like.  
Ryan

... in response to Ok lets get this out..., posted by Ryan on Jan 14, 2002

instead of a human doing.

Right behind you on this.

bt, dt.

... in response to How Would YOU Know Ryan??  n/t, posted by Dan on Jan 14, 2002

I have been to the Ukraine by myself no Agency help.  I hung out in Kiev with this one girl and seen everything.  I traveled to Luganks and stayed with this family did what they did everyday.  Whole trip was 10 days.  I got a good feel for it all.  When I go back I will do it the same way but go and look at more agency catologs and hit a few more bars.  I did alot of night life stuff in Kiev but in Luganks I stayed in with this family except for some picnics and camp-outs etc.  Yes I do have experience if that is what your talking "DAN" if that is who you are.
Ryan