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Below, JohnK gave a report about his marriage and the issue of vanity came up.

How common is this vanity issue anyway? I have heard about it but I really did not experience it to any out of normal degree with the one lady that I visited on two occasions.

What are your experiences? Any negatives related to this issue?

... in response to Vanity - question, posted by thesearch on Jan 10, 2002

Greg,
There is a certain amount of "wait time" that you will have, but the wait is well worth it!  I think the vanity is an offshoot from the tremendous compitition that they faced back home.  I know that Lena loves to stand out and attract attention and it is just much easier a task here than it was back in Russia.  This could be a problem for a guy that is in anyway insecure or jealous.

For the most part, I take guys looking at Lena as a compliment.  There have been a few incidents where guys just were not very cool about it though.  Let's face facts, some guys are just dogs and can not help themselves.  LOL.  I have witnessed guys knocking over endcap displays with their shopping carts because they couldn't take their eyes off of Lena at the grocery store.  Boy, did he catch hell from his wife!
KenC

... in response to Re: Vanity - question, posted by KenC on Jan 11, 2002

I am sure it is.  And it is not a matter of slopping on alot of make-up--it is attention to the details.  It has something to do with self-pride...to look their best.  A few girls have told me the competition is tremendous in Russia and Ukraine and looking good is also a matter of feeling good.  I think as soon as the men stop looking,  they may feel that they are on their way to becoming a babushka.  Personally,  I hope it is not something they forget when they come here.

... in response to Well worth the wait!, posted by tim360z on Jan 11, 2002

Tim,
As I said above, Lena has not changed her M.O. since coming here 3 years ago.  Heavy make-up is not her style either.
KenC

... in response to Re: Well worth the wait!, posted by KenC on Jan 11, 2002

well...thats my opinion.  I surely did not mean to infer heavy make-up either.  My apology if you read that into my post.  It is just those tiny little details which present a beautiful picture.  Sparingly used.  Attention to detail and a pride in oneself as one meets the world.  Or as one girl told me,  "If I look my best then,  I can do my best,  this gives me an inner confidence each day."

... in response to You're a lucky guy Ken, posted by tim360z on Jan 11, 2002

Tim,
No offense was taken.  Some women tend to over do the make-up and others use it just right.  I guess arriving at the perfect "natural look" takes a lot of time and effort!  LOL  The other thing that can happen once your RW is here, is that you can take on some of her traits.  I find myself dressing better and paying more attention to my appearance in general.  Nothing wrong with that.
KenC

... in response to I know, posted by KenC on Jan 11, 2002

I've always preferred slacks over jeans anyway, but my wife is much more concientious about my haircut than I am.  Also, colonge is now a necessity, as opposed to something nice.

I have noticed that my wardrobe is upgrading here and there.  My older sweaters are being set aside while newer, more fashionable ones are entering my wardrobe.  Also, older clothes somehow manage to get buried in the back of the closet while newer ones strangely manage to stay right at the front...  :-)

... in response to I know, posted by KenC on Jan 11, 2002

I know when I was in Russia I was a lot more careful of my appearance than I ever was here. One funny incident was when the family cat crawled all over me. I had to stand for almost 10 minutes with my arms held at shoulder height while my lady and her mother picked every single cat hair off me. I wasn't overly worried about it. It was night and I was only going home. But there was no way they'd let me out of the apartment like that.

From what I saw the ladies demand the best of themselves and of the man they're with. That's good but at times it got a little extreme. But then my lady was an extreme sort of person. That's part of why I liked her.

... in response to Vanity - question, posted by thesearch on Jan 10, 2002


I don't know about when an RW comes over. I would think that eventually American easy-going culture would rub off on her a bit... why not?

Maria would take pride in her appearance... but not a "face time" sort of thing. The makeup she used was sparse. But she had a good body, and she was proud of that. She walked everywhere deliberately because she knew it kept her thin. She definitely dressed to show off her body.

But I don't know that it was excessive vanity.

BTW, I have been married twice. First wife wore hardly any makeup and dressed like a slob. Second wife wore makeup every day, worked out, and had a whole wardrobe of mini skirts.

I would have waited as long as it took for my second wife to get ready. She always looked great, and I loved going places with her.

And I don't know about the rest of you, but that "Raccoon eye" look in the morning... when the lady went to bed with makeup and was too -- um -- tired to get back up and take it off... I always found amazingly sexy... One man's opinion...

Give me a woman who takes pride in her appearance any day!

Twenty minutes? I'll wait... no problem...

... in response to Vanity - question, posted by thesearch on Jan 10, 2002

My Russian wife has now lived here in California for almost 4 months now and has become fully "Americanized". The first few months she was always dressed well wherever we went...whether it was the mall or grocery shopping and she always changed her clothes back into her "house" clothes when we came home.
Now she wears the same clothes all day...and somewhat more casual than she ever did when she first arrived. She even prefers now to wear sweat shirts and tennis shoes to her ESL class!

... in response to Re: Vanity - question, posted by apk on Jan 10, 2002

ggg

... in response to Re: Vanity - question, posted by apk on Jan 10, 2002

Vanity?  Perhaps.  I suspect it is more like personal pride.  My wife did try the blue jean/sneakers thing.  She hated it.  Especially after coming home from her Ukrainian vacation.  Upon coming back, she decided that she didn't want to go back to American style.  She just wants to look better than anyone else.

In a way, it's almost like a contest.  The more people watch her, the more points she gets.  I saw this a lot in Ukraine the first time I was there, visiting my fiancée.  There was a subtle, yet distinct competition among the good looking girls walking down the street.  The girls would try to catch my attention when we were together.  The girls who felt that they had done so seemed to almost pick up a little spring in their step.

Of course, this last time over, I didn't notice this.  Perhaps they can detect married folk or something...

... in response to Vanity or Pride?, posted by John K on Jan 10, 2002

the girl who gets the married guy to look at her...gets more points.  Or as a couple Russian girls have told me,  "A man falls in love with his eyes,  a woman with her ears."

... in response to Re: Vanity or Pride? I think that, posted by tim360z on Jan 10, 2002


Eyes?

... in response to Re: Vanity - question, posted by apk on Jan 10, 2002

....thats very common from what I've seen even though many
refuse to believe it can happen so quickly. It's just another pipe
dream that needs to be exploded about these woman.

... in response to Thanx apk...., posted by LP on Jan 10, 2002

LP,
My wife Lena is more like John K's wife above.  She would never be caught dead in a sweatshirt and only wears "sport shoes" while going for a brisk walk.  She has maintained her Russian sense of style after 3 years here.  The only exception might be that she wears short skirts less and slacks more often.
KenC

... in response to sorry LP, posted by KenC on Jan 11, 2002

...to be sorry that she's the exception to the rule.

Then again, in your case, I can understand why.

... in response to Vanity - question, posted by thesearch on Jan 10, 2002

It was a big issue with the lady I was with and to a slightly lesser degree her sister. They were both very attractive but they literally needed hours to make themselves up. The bare minimum was 20 minutes before they could go out on the street. To be honest I never noticed much difference between the before and after. But they did.

I took a picture of my lady once when she didn't have all her makeup on. She was very angry over that. And when she saw that picture later she tore it to pieces. She develpoed some of my films that had pictures of her on them. She destroyed the pictures and negatives that she didn't like before I even saw them. We had a nasty fight over that. Every trip I came home with one to five pictures of her and her sister. My family couldn't understand why I didn't take more of her. They couldn't believe me when I said I shot several rolls but she destroyed them.

This was my experience. I hope that it is not typical behavior. The sister was less concerned about this but it was still important. She politely asked to be able choose which pictures I took home. My lady's excuse to me was, "I don't want your family thinking you were with an ugly woman." Sounded pretty lame to me. My family wouldn't have cared if she was the ugliest woman on the planet as long as I liked her.

... in response to Re: Vanity - question, posted by Zink on Jan 10, 2002

I had an AW girlfriend a few years back.  While she was very beautiful she also needed "bathroom time" before she would meet the world.  Normally,  1 hour.  A big dinner date she needed at the very least 1 1/2 hours---2 hours would be normal "face time".  So I see 20 minutes as an absolute bargin.  But,  the results were perfect and of course she knew that quite well.

... in response to Re: Re: Vanity - question, posted by tim360z on Jan 10, 2002

Her knowing how good she looked was one of my problems. When we first met she was shy, coy and sweet. If I told her I thought she was beautiful, she would blush and giggle. Later on she showed that she could use her looks as a weapon. Not entirely a RW trait. But RWs are better at it than most of the women I know in North America.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Vanity - question, posted by Zink on Jan 10, 2002

well known to all women, IMHO.  All girls know that guys are quite moved by the outside of the package.  But,  I do think that RW/UW's place a much greater emphasis on their looks.  ie:  One girl who is just a friend--- over the last 2 months,  has sent me over 40 photos by email and postal mail.  Originally,  I guess I did not fully realize how good-looking she is....she has no problem in letting me know.  And,  I am just as sure that she does have the expectation that our friendship will become something else.  I know, that she knows,  her looks would be hard for most guys to resist.

... in response to Weapons of destruction are, posted by tim360z on Jan 10, 2002

Very true. But RWs come more heavily armed than some women. It's hard to describe but there are many subtle and not so subtle things about RWs that drive me crazy. I've known pretty girls here. But all a RW has to do is walk by and I notice! They carry themselves differently. And it's not all a conscious attempt to gain attention.