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Am I the only one that doesn't understand the current outrage of the Arab communities for the INS enforcing the law?  Here we are dotting our "i's" and crossing our "t's" to insure proper handling of our RW's LEGAL transition into our society, while the Muslim's are pissed off about the INS arresting illegal Arab aliens.  I just read a story about a Muslim community leader that was arrested (in the Detroit area) because his TOURIST visa expired in 1998!  He could have requested an extension or he could have applied for an AOS, but didn't.  This particular man was the head of a charity organization that is under investigation for possible terrorist interaction.  Sorry, but he gets no pity from me.
KenC

... in response to Am I the only one?, posted by KenC on Dec 18, 2001

Yes we have here in Dearborn MI. (Home of Henry Ford) the largest population of Arab people in the United States.  The government sent out over 900 notices asking these Arab people for help in any information they might have about 911 not even half replied to the notice.  We have let all immigrants get away with way too much it is time we took a stand.  In my farming town here Arab speaking people own all the party stores.  When I lived in Florida it was the Chinese.  How are they able to do this?  I was told they get tax breaks for a certain amount of years then they have another family member come from their country and run the store to continue on with the tax breaks.

... in response to Re: Am I the only one?, posted by Ryan on Dec 18, 2001

This makes too much sense... make it like a credit card that you swipe when going into a Federal Building/Post Office/SSN office/INS office.

If you don't have one, your not eligible for SSN, food stamps, or any other Gov't perk.

No one should be in this country ilegally, but there are boats loads of illegals.

Just imagine your at police check point checking for seat belt users and driver identification.  Busted.

... in response to Re: Re: I like the idea of a National ID..., posted by wsbill on Dec 18, 2001

idea.  Certainly is smacks of Big Brother.  Big time.  Now,  Immigration,  I could be persuaded on that count.  Most of us born in America should value our freedoms...one is not to be on 1 Big brother database with all the info completely digitized.  Surely,  we have a big immigrant problem and leaky borders and all that stuff....but,  me,  I don't want any part of a national ID card.  And I far more liberal,  than right wing in my politics.  But,  once they get their little foot in the door,  their little toe,  we will be catalogued beyond beleif.  All of us USA citizens deserve a little privacy...which is incessantly eroded.  The card,  is the complete end of any vestige of your personal privacy.  People here on student visa's or whatever...maybe a card is a good idea.  I do not think that the rights of a US Citizen should be conferred upon anyone who can squeeze through a porous border or to those who overstay their visa.  That is a seperate category.  Forget the politics,  'cuz far too many before us have fought and died to preserve the freedoms we American Citizens enjoy.  I do not think that I or any current American Citizen really need some Attorney General sponsored card for me to prove that I am an American.  I am an American,  don't need no card to prove it.

... in response to Re: Re: I like the idea of a National ID..., posted by wsbill on Dec 18, 2001

Yes it will happen someday.  We all will have either computer chips under or skin or some ID card possibly both.  Yes it will also be used as a new form of discrimination for those that want to take up that fight.    

NEWS
Every person in the world would be fingerprinted and registered under a universal identification scheme to fight illegal immigration and people smuggling outlined at a United Nations meeting on December 14th 2001
The plan was put forward by Pascal Smet, the head of Belgium's independent asylum review board, at a roundtable meeting with ministers including Australian Immigration Minister Philip Ruddock.  
Mr Smet said the European Union was already considering a Europe-wide system, using either fingerprints or eye scanning technology, to identify citizens.  But he said the plan could be extended worldwide "There are no technical problems. It is only a question of will and investment," he said
Mr Smet said the scheme would give people dignity by giving them an identity if their papers had been lost or destroyed. And he said it would allow countries to open their borders to genuine travellers or asylum seekers, because they would be able to prove the identity of any over-stayers and deport them without argument from their home country.

... in response to Universal identification scheme Worldwid..., posted by Ryan on Dec 18, 2001

Soumds great.  I wish our authorities would just go in to those Muslim communities and separate out the good with from the bad.  Then, they should find any other Muslims in the US and check their papers.  It is not discrimination, it is protection.  If I was a Muslim I would want it because all my neighbors would know I am ok.  Then we could work on the rest of the country.

... in response to Re: Universal identification scheme Worl..., posted by hockeybrain on Dec 18, 2001

Why don't we just make non-citizens wear a big yellow star?

Seriously, if you want to create even more red-tape, by all means, go for it! Write Congress, the President, anyone...just be sure to leave my name off the petition. We have enough hoops to jump through as it is.

Cheers...
DR

... in response to You guys really want this?, posted by DR on Dec 18, 2001

The BYS id system appears to cost the gov't even more money than a simple microchip or retina facial scan....

as who is going to be able to produce these yellow stars to put on your all your clothes.  

... in response to You guys really want this?, posted by DR on Dec 18, 2001

...Ashcroft is the one who oughta be hunted down and arrested in addition to Osama. I've never seen a guy attempt to walk all over the Constitution as much as this bozo.

To paraphrase: They can give me a National ID Card when they forceably insert it in my cold dead fingers.

... in response to You guys really want this?, posted by DR on Dec 18, 2001

This will be the exact fight, many people will be yelling.  "Discrimination!"

Don't forget these issues:
1) the identification system could be easily expanded to include other purposes beyond deterring illegal immigration, such as implementation of a Clinton- style health security card, conducting background checks on individuals, and enforcing affirmative action laws and other government regulations.

2) the system would cost the federal government between $3 billion and $6 billion per year to administer.

3) error rates that are commonplace for government databases would lead to hundreds of thousands of Americans being denied legal access to the workforce.

Big Brother does not stop there
The ID system would serve as a means of tracking undocumented workers, 'deadbeat' parents and to maintain information pertaining to health insurance

I still think someday we will have one especially if Europe does it first...
Ryan

... in response to And here we go..., posted by Ryan on Dec 18, 2001

.

... in response to And here we go..., posted by Ryan on Dec 18, 2001

Imagine if you made americans buy these id card on the front end and allow them to write it off on their taxes on the back end.

I do like the micro chip idea, imagine you lose your mind and you forgot where you lived at.... do a quick scan and they'll know in an instant.

... in response to Re: Great idea....charge people to regis..., posted by wsbill on Dec 18, 2001

When we all come under that type of rule, you may as well kiss any thought of freedom goodbye. What are we? Cattle? Exotic birds?
In the cattle breeding industry and in commercial production of Osterich and Emu, microchips are used extensively. By scanning the chips you can know the animal's entire family tree in a instant. With the type of technology available your entire life from finances right down to your medical history will be totally accessable to anyone who has the ability to scan the chip. It may be coming, but I for one will not submit. I suggest you read Revelations 13:11-18.
Then again, some people are probably better off being treated like cattle. Is that what you really want?

... in response to Not sure, but I think you have lost your..., posted by Lynn on Dec 18, 2001

It will happen and the system will be on a voluntary basis as it is in many countries around the world today.  Then the people who don't voluntear will start to lose rights...  Argentina (A requirement by 8 years of age) Honduras, Spain, and Nine European Union (EU) countries have state-run identity card systems (Britain, Ireland and Denmark being the exceptions).  In Africa The Kenyan national government introduced national identity cards this year. Unfortunately, the cards have given rise to fears that the government will attempt to manipulate the 1997 elections. According to the constitution, Kenyans over the age of 18 are eligible for a national ID card. The ID card is essential to adult life because it is required to get a job, get married, purchase or sell land, or register to vote.

Related Issues:
In 1986, Congress passed legislation making it illegal to knowingly employ aliens lacking work authorization [Fis93]. The United States is experiencing an overwhelming increase in the number of illegal aliens entering the country each year. It is estimated that the number of illegal immigrants is nearly 300,000 people each year. A 1995 USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll of legal immigrants showed that 61% favor a national ID card to distinguish citizens and legal residents from illegal immigrants. According to the poll, just over half of the general public also favors an ID card [Pue95].
In 1995 the Senate considered several proposals to create a national identity database for all Americans. The three bills are center around the concept of a national "worker verification" systems and have been brought before the Subcommittee on Immigration of the Judiciary Committee

... in response to Re: Great idea....charge people to regis..., posted by wsbill on Dec 18, 2001

It is coming, no matter if the people like it or not.   Every one talk about Big Brother (1984), well the only thing he
had wrong was the year, it will be 2004.
About the movie  "Solyent Green" (hoping I got it right), what the hell, it is where we are going and fast, hell.
Read today that they found  OGM (in fench)  Organism Modified Genetically, in a river close to Montréal, it came
from the corn.  It does kill  earth worms for a start and other life in the river.  People drink water from river
every where, right.
The warming of the planet, just to get the Gulfstream back were it once was, it will take 1500 years.
We in Canada, when the USA cough, we get the cold (economically),  so they went from a Rhodes Scholar to a
guy who could not get is Bachelor degree without the political help of his father, who was involved in the credit
union deal of a few years back.
We have a dummer fool as a leader, but just as greedy, so what is new.
So why worry about an ID Card,  no matter where we live.  
WE should worry more about the people living in refugees camps, how many millions are they, all over the world,
and worry about what they are thinking.
Let worry about falling in love, soon.  When in LOVE, one can do no wrong to others.

... in response to Re: Re: Great idea....charge people to r..., posted by micha1 on Dec 18, 2001

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52300-2001Dec16.html

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Great idea....charge people ..., posted by Ryan on Dec 18, 2001

Charge them and allow for a wimpy tax deduction at the end of the year, if you can find your reciept.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Great idea....charge people ..., posted by Ryan on Dec 18, 2001

I know link might now work gota love the washington post.. E-mail me I will send it...

... in response to Re: Great idea....charge people to regis..., posted by wsbill on Dec 18, 2001

and be the first one to pay for an id card.  And while you're at it, you can get a micro chip implant just like my dog!

I guess I'm in a sarcastic mood tonight, but I'm not in favor of a national id card.  Besides, we pretty much have a defacto id card in our drivers licences.  Perhaps if we have more stringent requirements for getting a drivers licence we can catch many of the terrorists in the dormant cells. That to me sounds like a goo idea.  

The downside, is that the foreign nationals are waiting in long lines to get drivers licences here in Florida now that they have tightened the requirements. Foreign nationals can get licences only a few designated dirvers licence centers.  Hopefully, it will get done right.

btw, have you seen the aol IM ads with the monkeys talking about one of them got a licence on his third try?  Terrorists aren't monkeys (or chimpanzees or whatever species are in the adds), but they don't seem to have much trouble getting drivers licences.

... in response to Re: You may proceed to the head of the l..., posted by Richard on Dec 18, 2001

Eye and facial scan imprint data.  Blood/DNA all that data on your national ID card.

Every insurance company in the world would want that data and if you had a questionable family problem you could get federal or state assistance.  As it stands now, there is so many bogus claims costing everyone $$$ for fake illness.

All of this could be on a smart chip card.

Drivers license are worthless, unless it is a Federal issue license, state by state computers are not interconnected and all a smart terrorist has to do is change their name.

I'd love to share with you some stuff that has happen near my Navy Base, but I might be endangering peoples lifes, if I told you.  But I can readily say a National ID card makes sense.

... in response to Re: Re: I like the idea of a National ID..., posted by wsbill on Dec 18, 2001

I do agree with you,  for the answer to illegal alien, in the US or Canada,  you have to go back to the politicians,
who do like these communities to vote for them in block.  How about dual citizenship, dual passport users, who
do not pay taxes because they do give money to charities (or are supposed to) in their native land.
The average citizen in the USA or Canada do not know about this or don't care or his badly inform by the elected
official, or the press, because these communities have a lot of clout with the newspapers, T.V. stations and
radio, they do buy adds.  As for another persuasion from the middle east, they do own the newspapers, T.V.
stations and the radio outright,  in such a way that they can run the goverments in the anglo saxon world.
Nothing is new in this worlds of our, praised the lord and pass the ammunition.