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i wonder what size problem this is;
a ukrainian lady has moved from mid-size city to kiev a couple years ago, but has never registered any address on her interal ukraine passport. she would need to update this as a first step on getting all her documents set for doing a K-1 visa.
anyone heard of this problem before?

... in response to ukrainian passport?, posted by bradley on Dec 3, 2001

The internal Ukrainian passport is something of a throwback to Soviet times, when authorities controlled every movement of people within their borders. My guess is your lady is simply trying to avoid any unforeseen complications by insuring that all the necessary paperwork is clean on her end - before you start the K-1 process. To get the proper notations in her internal passport, she will need to make a visit to the OVIR/VVIR office and file papers with them. It could take a few weeks, but it should not be a big problem - nor an expensive one. This is one aspect that has changed in the post-Soviet era. In previous times, she might have been denied the right to change her living address. Now, it should not be any problem at all.

Finally, just as a matter of interest - when Ukraine lifted the 'registration' requirements for some foreign travelers, they also announced efforts to reduce internal restrictions for citizens of Ukraine - to be phased in over the next several years.

I hope this helps.

- Dan

... in response to Yes, It Is True . . ., posted by Dan on Dec 3, 2001

Some restrictions were just recently lifted, so now people can live where the want. Here is the article on it... http://www.thepost.kiev.ua/main/10177/
Though I doubt if that changes the passport requirements.

... in response to Re: Yes, It Is True . . ., posted by Stan B on Dec 3, 2001

The *internal* Ukrainian passport ONLY. Not the international passport.

First, to get a mental picture of how the Ukrainian internal passport works (or more accurately - *worked*) - just consider your state-issued Driver's License. I would wager that most people here (in America) present their Driver's License as a form of identification FAR more frequently than as representing a legal right to drive a motor vehicle. In Colorado and a few other states I am familiar with, it is expected that you will file a Change of Address within a short time of you actually taking up residence at a new address. This is so authorities and others who rely on the information contained on your Driver's License can be assured it is accurate.

This metaphor is very similar to how Ukrainian internal passports have worked these past few years. In Soviet times, of course, it was much different and FAR more restrictive. In fact, one of the more repugnant acts of the Soviet regime was their refusal to allow Kyivites the opportunity to leave Kyiv following Chernobyl. They did this through enforcement of propyska - and eventually, through use of their military surrounding Kyiv when people were trying to mass exodus. This, of course, was only long after Gorbachev had finally allowed some word of the calamity at Chernobyl to trickle out - but that's the subject of another post.

The article you cite tells me that reforms, in some areas, are moving more rapidly than originally planned. It goes hand-in-glove with Crimea and Odesa eliminating visitor visa requirements for short-term stays next summer!

Further, on the topic of dropping registration requirements, it does create some fairly large social consequences. For instance - remember that hot water and other utilities are shared by an entire group of people living in a single building. If no-one is required to register their residences any longer, how is the gas company (that provides the power source for heating the water) to know where to direct bills to collect payment for the gas consumed?? Just as one example. Yes, I know this particular topic is problematic as many (maybe most) in Ukraine don't pay for utilities they consume anyway - but the issue remains and must, at some point, be managed.

Anyway - I haven't seen the propyska requirements as being particularly onerous - at least, not in practice. It is no different than my having to go down to the local village Rathouse (yes, that is correct!) in Germany to register my stay in their village every time I changed residences. Same thing. And really not all that much different than changing the address on my Driver's License here in America.

FWIW

- Dan

... in response to Re: Yes, It Is True . . ., posted by Stan B on Dec 3, 2001

Interesting article.  It seems like it also changes the requirement to obtain "permission" to reside abroad that has also caused much confusion, or am I reading too much into it?

... in response to Re: Re: Yes, It Is True . . ., posted by Charles on Dec 3, 2001

Things seem to be changing very quickly now in this area of Ukrainian law.

I don't know how many people know about it - but Crimea and Odesa have already announced a trial program to be implemented with the upcoming summer - and NO visas will be required for stays of less than 8 days (as I currently understand it).

Some things are changing quickly.

- Dan

... in response to That Was Originally Scheduled For 2003/2..., posted by Dan on Dec 3, 2001

Dan, can you tell me where that information is.  I am going to Crimea for a week this summer and would love to avoid having to get a visa.  Thanks

... in response to Re: That Was Originally Scheduled For 20..., posted by Charles on Dec 3, 2001

Charles,
Both the City of Odessa and the Republic of Crimea have made these "proposals" that are not, as yet, passed by the Ukraine Rada, which I am led to believe must be done prior to one being able to obtain a visa at one's point-of-entry.
Also, the fees for this have not yet been established!!!!

... in response to That Was Originally Scheduled For 2003/2..., posted by Dan on Dec 3, 2001

and as you pointed out, there are many huge concerns regarding the Constitutional Court's ruling.
Not the least is the concerns regarding the upcoming elections - at this time there are no "electoral lists" per se, and likely not enough time for a proper 'enumeration' and the preparation of "voter's lists".