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I just received a letter from a lady that I wrote to who is 37 years old. She is a Russian lady living in Ukraine. She is a very attractive lady. She is divorced with one child. I asked her specifically why she decided to use the Internet to possibly find a husband.

She said that for a woman her age, most of the men that would be in the age range that she would consider are already married. Those that were not  married - most were not anyone who would interest her. She said that she would rather not leave Russia/Ukraine but that she would do so if she found the right man. I have no doubt that this woman would rather I move to Russia if she and I were to become an item. (She is moving back to St. Petersburg)

If a guy has investments and a monthly income, he could do it and live quite nicely just to try it out. I think that it would give a guy a very good perspective on things to live there for a year. I would bet you would have more appreciation for what she has to go through to adjust to a new land.

She states that when she was in her early twenties, it was very easy to find a man and that she had her pick but, those days are gone for a woman 37 years old.

I am sensing that women in their thirties are some of the most prime women available because of this fact.  If you are in your early fifties and in good shape you look like a man about forty from the FSU not uncommonly depending on his life. So women 36 to 40 will be very interested. I also suspect that when you tell them that you are 50, they very well might relate you to men who are 50 from their country. I have talked to guys who once they get over there, their age is not as big a barrier as it was when they were just sending out introduction letters.

In other words, when they see you, they no longer think of you as being too old. This was my experience when I was in the FSU so I tend to believe that it is true.

... in response to the woman's age and availability of men, posted by thesearch on Dec 3, 2001

that is the quality of the woman the you pick that will most determine her actions when she gets here. If she was going to 'fool around' in Ukraine, then she will probably do the same here. But with the 'right' woman, as long as you live up to her expectations, I think that you can expect fidelity and a long and loving relationship.
And I really don't think that this is nessecarily an AM-RW thing, I think its an any man and woman thing. The only thing that the RW brings into the equation is the fact that you can get a younger and prettier woman there. Thus increasing the chance of you getting out of your league and that leads to trouble no matter where she's from...

... in response to the woman's age and availability of men, posted by thesearch on Dec 3, 2001

to find a good man in her age bracket.  I think it is even a bigger issue.

... in response to the woman's age and availability of men, posted by thesearch on Dec 3, 2001

Gosh, I don't think we've debated the age question in the last month at least.  I think it was Dave the Kiwi that posted a link last year that showed a scatter plot of men's versus women's ages that some guy put on the internet.  I didn't see the source of the data, but the plots showed typically about a 16 year age difference between the men and women.  I had a 21 year old girl that wanted to come back with me and I am 44.  Her parents had no objections at all.  They were near my age but I was much younger looking than them and they were surprised I was only a few years younger.

Also, it is surprising that a Russian man dies so young relative to men in the USA.  Russian men have an average age of 59 years.  In my family it's over 80, so I have the same (or greater actually) lifespan that might be expected of a 23 year old Russian man.  RW/UW want a man with financial security too and that doesn't come until you're older.  

From my standpoint, the age difference is a factor because of where you are in your life.  I want to be having kids, so I have to go younger.  A woman's fertility drops in half by 25 and by half again by 30.  At over 50 I guess you won't be wanting any kids.  There are some really nice looking women over 35 available for guys like you.  On my first tour to St Pete a guy about 55 had a really nice looking 35 year old woman from Siberia ready to come back with him.  Don't know how that finished.  Anyway, below is one story from the Volga Girl website that I found a while back about a guy marrying a much younger girl.  

http://www.volgagirl.com/arinasstory.html

Also, I have gotten the impression that it is very difficult for a divorced woman with children to get any man.  With the male mortality rate what it is that has to be a factor for these older women.

... in response to Re: the woman's age and availability of ..., posted by BubbaGump on Dec 4, 2001

I have never debated the age issue with this board and of course have my own opinions.  Sometimes I have to re-calibrate myself and face reality.

It's like being deserted on an island surrounded by beautiful women.  No competition.  You are the only choice.  Kind of like being AM in Kiev.  A middle-aged man with young women looking your way and all of them starving for security and a home.

Yes, this if fun and I enjoy all the attention.  I still am young inside but the outside of me is aging and quickly.  Sometimes I forget who I am and my age.  It makes me feel young again when these drop dead gorgeous girls look my way.  Everyone of us older fellas need to feel young again.  We are not meant to grow old and wither away.  Our minds don't accept that concept.  Mine doesn't.  In the US a young good looking girl will not look my way much less think about marriage to me.

Here it is different.  Here I am King.  Money, US citizen, home, future pension, and all the goodies to go with it.

I just have to wonder what will happen when I put my young Russian wife in a society that has it all.  How long before she finds an opportunity with someone else younger and with the same or better assets than me?

Does she really love me?  Has it stood the test of time?  Is two months long enough?  Two years?  Ten years?  I really don't know the answer to that question.  But I do know what motivated her to attract to me.  I do know those facts.  It's not that hard to figure out.  I live here and see it all the time.  I see my local competition.  The real ones.  Good looking Russian men with nothing to offer.  Now enter an AM with everything to offer.  She takes the bait.  Now I think she loves me because I am such a good looking and handsome man.  I certainly can rationalize that way.  It's easy.  My mind won't let me believe anything else because love should be based on attraction and qualities, not money and assets.  Wasn't mine?  I thought how beautiful she is and how great qualities she has.  She cleans my house, my clothes, keeps watch over every move I make and gives me endless affection.  I certainly didn't figure in her assets and money into the love equation.  She doesn't have any.  No problem.  I didn't need it anyway.

Well sometimes I just have to look in the mirror.  Readjustment time.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine

... in response to Re: Re: the woman's age and availability..., posted by Jimmy on Dec 4, 2001

I personally would like to see what it is like living in Russia or Ukraine - just to experience what you are talking about. The concept of getting myself in a position to actually do this has been very good for me personally. I am getting things done that before I would not have. Most likely I will never go over there to live, but I like the results of the motivation so, I will still make it my aim to move there for a year.

Thanks for your post with it's perspective

... in response to Re: Re: the woman's age and availability..., posted by Jimmy on Dec 4, 2001

screwed on straight.  Best of luck to you.  Keep up the good work telling us how it is in reality.

JR

... in response to the woman's age and availability of men, posted by thesearch on Dec 3, 2001

I will say that my observation is that age differences between RW and AM is not much of a factor.  If you are older AM and can give the younger woman security and a home then I am sure your age will not be a factor as long as you can satisfy her needs.

The only danger I see is that when she enters the US and finds that younger, better equiped young AM can give her security and a home then she may find herself in a situation that will test her love for you.

Survival is the key word.  True love comes later when your love for each other developes.

The same went with me when I arrived here and saw all the young beautiful RW interested in an old man like me.  I get tested everyday with my love for my lady.  I am tempted all the time.  Young woman interested in me.  I have to ask myself why?  This certainly wouldn't happen in the US.  I know it wouldn't.  Not young ones like this.  Here it's different and the only thing that I can ascertain is that they only want in the beginning a home and security.  Age is not a factor.  But can be if all other things are equal.  If RM had the same capabilities that I have then I wouldn't even get nary a look in my direction.  I am sure.  This is a competitive society for a good man.  If you are a good one then many women will want you.

Put this same RW in a society with many to pick from and see what happens.  It's basic human behavior and not rocket science.

Come live here for a year and see what happens and keep your pants zipped for the first three months so you can think with the right head.  You'll learn allot.  Listen and learn.

Best Regards,

Jimmy
Ukraine

... in response to Age Difference, posted by Jimmy on Dec 4, 2001

Jimmy,
I would first like to say that I respect your posts here greatly.  You have an insight and an opportunity that not many on this board ever had because of the time you were able to spend in Ukraine.  Your opinion of the "mindset" of Ukrainian women (in Ukraine) should be heeded with great respect.  However, your opinion about how a FSU woman will react once in America is a guess at best at this point.

Although my wife is Russian and not from Ukraine, there are many similarities.  I will tell you that their values in this area do not change much once they arrive here.  Sure they adapt to the economic improvements like a fish to water, but their mindset with regard to men is something that doesn't change much as I see it.  Pretty girls have all the same opportunities in FSU counties as they do here for attention of men their same ages.  How they reacted to this in their home county will be similar to the way they will act here.  All women like attention from men.  This is especially true of FSU women.  How far that attention goes is dependent upon the individual woman's character.

Much has been posted here about the maturity of FSU women.  The same generalities can be said about FSU men.  The American men of similar aged FSU men are very immature by comparison.  My wife views AM of her age as she would guys in Russia that were 5-10 years younger than herself.  Nice to look at, but no substance.  LOL.
KenC

... in response to Re: Age Difference, posted by KenC on Dec 4, 2001

Ken said:  Pretty girls have all the same opportunities in FSU counties as they do here for attention of men their same ages.

But above, Jimmy said:   If RM had the same capabilities that I have then I wouldn't even get nary a look in my
direction.

So Jimmy's point is, yes there are plenty of RM for the lady to look at and get attention from, but they will go with AM because of assets, security, etc.

Therefore, you must address his arguments point by point if we are to gain from your experience also.

JR

... in response to Ken, lets compare apples to apples, posted by juio99 on Dec 4, 2001

JR,
Point well made.  Let me see if I can clarify.  RW can get the same "attention" from RM in Russia as they can get from AM in America.  I get the impression that RM are no slouches when it comes to romancing a woman.  My point is that this attention is without substance in the minds of RW.  In Russia, the younger guys are severly hampered by their economic woes and the "faithfulness" issue.  Think about how many RM in their 20's that still live at home with their parents for example.  RW are survivors and therefore security and stability are major concerns.  These are viewpoints that don't automaticly disappear once they come to America.  Even though the younger AM have much better "resources" than their fellow RM, they are viewed as immature by RW.  Also, the prejudices formed in Russia (unstable and unfaithfull-lacking substance) are still in their minds (whether justified or not).
KenC

... in response to Re: Ken, lets compare apples to apples, posted by KenC on Dec 4, 2001

I like your post and you seem to speak from experience.  Thanks for the insight.   If I may ask the age difference between you and your lady?

Robert D.

... in response to Re: Re: Ken, lets compare apples to appl..., posted by Robert D on Dec 4, 2001

25 yrs

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Ken, lets compare apples to ..., posted by KenC on Dec 4, 2001

Well it seems to me you can speak from experience that none of us have.   Good luck and I am glad you had the guts to take on that sort of age difference.   It would scare me a little, but perhaps I should rethink it.   I thought 15 years was too much for me.    Great to hear.

Robert D.

... in response to Re: Ken, lets compare apples to apples, posted by KenC on Dec 4, 2001

Ken, thanks for your response, but I am not quite able to buy into it.  For one thing, not many AM live with their parents into their 20s.  And I am not sure that I would say many AM in their 20s are immature.

But, those are not the main points.  The main point is your contention that RW in US will (because of a carry over affect from RM) view younger AM as immature, unstable, unfaithfull, and lacking in resources.

I cannot buy into that because it seems to suggest that the RW won't realize at some point that those may not be the true facts.

But, in reality, this all is so subjective, that we can never come to a conclusion.  And there would have to be tremendous differences in how each RW would view these inputs and make their decisions.

JR

... in response to Re: Re: Ken, lets compare apples to appl..., posted by juio99 on Dec 4, 2001

JR,
Please re-read my post.  I never said that AM live at home or lack the "resorces" to romance women.  I said that about young Russian men.  To put the immature issue in perspective, my wife's comments about AM close to her age: "They are like babies.  They should go home to their Mommas".  She compared AM 23-25 to Russian boys of 15-17.  Of course this is only an opinon of ONE RW so YMMV.
KenC

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Ken, lets compare apples to ..., posted by KenC on Dec 4, 2001

We are just misunderstanding each other's words Ken.  I know you didn't say that about AM.  But I did say it to point out how  young AM and young RM were different, hence the same reactions from RW to RM should not occur to AM.  But anyway, as is pointed out, this is an unresolvable issue.

JR

... in response to Re: Re: Ken, lets compare apples to appl..., posted by juio99 on Dec 4, 2001

Aaaahhh!!!  The thorny thicket of the Pl Board.  It is so easy to make a generalization on this.  It really depends on the specific people involved.  On themselves and on the good old "chemistry" between the two---the interactions.  I think Tootsie put the best rule of thumb to this question some time ago.  Namely,  that if you are say,  42 and you usually go out with 25 year old girls here and you get along well,  then....you will probably do just fine with 25 year old girls in Russia or Ukraine.  Or 22.  But,  if women 38 or 40 over here find you uninteresting---you may be uninteresting there to.  Now,  if a guy is especially charming or interesting...he will do very well.

  But,  as Jimmy mentioned,  the "s" word,  security.  Most women,  everywhere like security and I do beleive that being able to provide that ingredient to a lady from Fsu will increase their interest in you.  A bit more than it would be a factor over here.  There are just so many other factors involved...like character that perhaps more stress should be placed on character than on age...which can be just a generalization.

  I have a friend here who is 43 a good looking guy,  moderately successful...but what a charm he has.  He goes out with all ages of nice girls ages,  like 38 or 29 or 25 and sometimes 19...they all like him.  I think he would do just as well in Moscow or Kiev or anywhere...so boys work on the charm.  Each person is different and to really find out for sure what ages of girls over there are going to find you interesting is---to just go there and meet some and then you will know more.  One size don't fit all.

... in response to Age generalizations???, posted by tim360z on Dec 4, 2001

Tim,
"one size don't fit all" pretty well sums up this issue.  LOL.  My opinions on this subject are based on my wife and her opinion.  She may well be an aberation in many ways.
KenC

... in response to Re: Age generalizations???, posted by KenC on Dec 4, 2001

tellin' you like it really is.  I am sure.  I have had 5-6 girls tell me the same type of thing,  but their tone is a little different like,  "....so as to men in my country, at 25 or 26 or 27 they are more like boys who need me to feed them in every way,  like I am to be their mother and their wife.  Most they cannot take care of me so I am supposed to take care of them."  It goes kinda like that.  Its got a nice little beat and you can dance to it.  And "one size don't fit all".

... in response to Nah!  Ken,  She is probably fine and, posted by tim360z on Dec 4, 2001

n/t

... in response to Age Difference, posted by Jimmy on Dec 4, 2001

The age issue has been debated here ferociously over and over.
I am married to a younger woman; my experience has been that women all around the world and specially RW want a man to pay a lot of attention to them, and yes they want security. I tend to believe that an older man can do it better than a younger man can. Most RW know that.
RW are very high maintenance women; I have known plenty of AW to be able to compare; someone who does not understand that should clearly stay away. I don't believe that many younger American men have the desire or the ability to provide that kind of attention. I think marriages fail when parties don't fulfill each other's needs, with or without the age difference.
I would reiterate, this pursuit is not for the faint of heart; there are many problems; age may NOT be the most crucial one.

Mark

... in response to the woman's age and availability of men, posted by thesearch on Dec 3, 2001

In this endeavor, maturity is paramont!
Was the jist  of this post consideration of a long Russian stay ? Make a short one first and then you will know.
Karl

... in response to the woman's age and availability of men, posted by thesearch on Dec 3, 2001

I agree that you will find that these women are interested in you for the reasons you suggest, but if there is more than a 10 year age difference you should be as careful with these women as a 40 y.o would be with a 25 y.o.  Make sure the woman loves you for who you are and not because she is reaching the age where she must get a man or else.