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One of the things that surprised me in meeting Ukrainian Women in what appeared to be common was how many Russian Men walked out on their wives and children.  Although they live nearby they have nothing to do with their children.  In one case since their divorce the father had never contacted their daughter, never asked how she was or tried to get to know her.  This I find hard to understand.  What;s more the fathers parents had no interest either.  They were divorced when his Daughter was three months old and has not seen her since.  He continues to make some support payments (About the cost of a Big Mc a month) but she has not seen her father or her Grand Parents on her fathers side.  She was a beautiful girl, that any father would be pround to know..

This was not the only case.  A friend ex-husband lived in the same block of apartments and never sees his son.  Whats even more puzzelling was that his ex wife still sees and cares for his mother her Mother-inlaw.

Now I know that two cases do not make the norm... or is it.  Does anyone else knwo of simmilar cases and why?  I could never abandon my children even in divorce...  I can not understand this let alone how grand parents can show no interest.  

... in response to RM and their Children, posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

that is Marina's experiance, as her father lived in the same town as her but wouldn't even say hello and didn't want to meet his grand-daughter. And Marina's ex has never called or visited his daughter since they broke up before their divorce.
So while jj is usually way off base, there is some truth in this 1...

... in response to I'm not a fan of jj, but, posted by Stan B on Nov 27, 2001

It was not the case in every situation.  I personally have not experienced this attitude.  - I faik to understand how a father can just work away from his children...  but then maybe some here can...  Interesting,

... in response to RM and their Children, posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

I don't know where you got this idea, but it's not the case.  I have a stepson with a Ukrainian father who still stays in touch with him even though he has been in the U.S. for some time.  I think you are being unfair here and engaging in generalizations without a lot of data.  If you want to ask a question of the board members, fine, but don't pontificate if you have no basis to do so.

... in response to Re: RM and their Children, posted by Charles on Nov 27, 2001

I understand.  Yes it appears as a generalisation but this is what a couple of women I dated in Ukraine commented on.  I was surprized myself, which is why I have posted this comment on the board to seek feedback.  I am not sure how representative it is.  But again I was surprised to also discover that the Grand Parents have shown no interest in their grand daughter development.  This is not a Ytoll Post but a sincere comment.

... in response to RM and their Children, posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

If you talk to them then you may find out something interesting...  At least they are reading this even if they do not understand the issue...  Hmmm...  Maybe it is too close to home for some..

... in response to RM and their Children, posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

You can't win here. You should have stopped your Jack bashing, finger pointing, goofy criticisms, stupid false "facts", and soapbox rants. Now, after each one of your posts, someone is going to post what an idiot you are to protect the uninformed from your falsities.

You should have calmed down and stopped your goofy posts. It't too late now. Get a clue, will ya!

-blm

... in response to It's just going to get uglier and nastie..., posted by BarryM on Nov 26, 2001

... Clearly I see now why this board flames so much..  They stay off topic and instead of addressing some issues they attach thye It is a reflection on them as far as I think.  I begin to understand some of Clares concerns...  maybe she was right...

... in response to Interesting why???  The Group Jerk off....., posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

YOU need to shut the hell up. Back off. LEAVE. You pissed on too many people here with your antics.

You were doing ok for a while. Not bothering anyone too terribly, and actually making some sense. Now you have shot yourself in the foot. No one cares about your topics. Only a complete idiot is going to take you seriously now.

Some things you need to do before "The Group" starts asking Patrick to ban you.

1. You need to stay off the board for a while and let things calm down... maybe 2 weeks of no jj posts ?

2. When you do come back, do not mention Jack, his business, his website, or anything to do with Jack whatsoever. I mean nothing. Do not respond to Jack. Do not defend yourself before Jack. Do not acknowledge that Jack exists.

3. Do not bother Dan. Do not piss off Dan. Do not mention anything about Dan. Do not try to discredit Dan. Dan knows much more than you about Ukraine. You should kiss Dan's ass, but you're too stupid to figure that out. Do not respond to Dan's posts. Do not acknowledge Dan exists.

4. Do not post stupid. Do not try to rally the board for some cause or issue. Do not post threats of reporting people to the IRS, INS, or any other government agency. Do not attempt to be an expert on anything. You're not. Do not post false information that makes respondants look like idiots. That's something you have done several times. Don't piss everyone off. Don't piss anyone off.

5. If you do decide to post some "facts", and I have serious scepticism on that, back them up with real data and real verifiable sources. If you don't have verifiable sources that you are willing to reveal, then you will always be considered a liar, a fraud, and a complete idiot.

You need to fix your image problem on here. You need some mental health counseling as well. Don't blame "The Group" for giving you flames. You deserve it. You're wrong and you have insulted us here. Get a life elsewhere.

-blm

... in response to Idiot! don't you get it ?, posted by BarryM on Nov 26, 2001

Sorry...  I now began to understand why some here get pissed off by the group jerk...  My attackes against Jack are in response to his false statements and accusations..  I am not the only one here that has expressed concern about Jack...  I tried to avoid him but he persists in being a Jerk.  You are attacking the messenger and not the source.

... in response to What you are saying is bend over and spr..., posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

nt

... in response to RM and their Children, posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

So you had a deadbeat dad.  Get over it.  Those stories are for another time and another place.  As someone else said, "jeez!"  ;)

... in response to JJ...we don't need to hear about your we..., posted by DR on Nov 26, 2001

I always have to ask this: Did your friends and family give you a hard time about marrying a foreign wife?  I always worry too much about what other people think.  I used to read your posts but I only started posting after you left.

... in response to JJ...we don't need to hear about your we..., posted by DR on Nov 26, 2001

You guys have lost the plot...  My childhood upbring was fine,,,,,  not that that matters.  I am not religious... I have no specific religion... I do not think it has to do with religion...  maybe you have abandooned you children in the past?  I do not know. I was trying to gain some insight into an issue that the ladies I met also found it hard to understand..  But than m,aybe you do not care what they think you only wish to chime in on a group jerk...

... in response to JJ...we don't need to hear about your we..., posted by DR on Nov 26, 2001

life been treating you? You don't post much anymore. Sad to see the only time you post is in response to this guy.  
I hope all's well.

... in response to How's married..., posted by Zink on Nov 26, 2001

Thanx for asking.  I replied to this joker only because I was in a goofy mood.  To be honest, I haven't been reading PL-com much lately.

My wife returned to Ukraine to help take care of some family issues (Mom and Grandpa were in an car accident and need someone to take care of them for a bit).  Anyway, I'm going over sometime between January and March to spend a couple of weeks with them also.  :D  

Of course, my wife had to return rather quickly, given the circumstances, so we weren't able to get travel authorization or adjust status.  Sooooooo it's back to the old INS waiting game.  I'm filing the I-130/K-3 this week.

If I learned one thing from filing the K-1, it's 'patience'.  :D  Yes, I'm singing a sweet tune now.  BUT, I'm sure I'll be pulling my hair out in about 3 months from now.  Hehe.

All my best...
D.R.

... in response to GREAT!!!!  :D, posted by DR on Nov 26, 2001

Congrats

... in response to GREAT!!!!  :D, posted by DR on Nov 26, 2001

Ah, the wife left and now you have nothing better to do. That explains it. Glad things are good with you. Hope the in-laws are doing okay.

... in response to RM and their Children, posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

you are making such broad, serious remarks about russian men, may i ask how many times you have been to russia?

... in response to may i ask how many times you have been t..., posted by ron on Nov 26, 2001

I have never been to Russia and yes I agree it is a broad remark.  I have raised this issue in hoping of seeking some feedback and other examples and opinions.  I spent over three months in Ukraine and this was the case.  Now I am sure that AM and other Western Men also have nothing to do with their children...  But I do not know of any that live within close proximity and never see their child. I could not live that way. Maybe you could...  not me.

... in response to Re: may i ask how many times you have be..., posted by jj on Nov 26, 2001

you have never been to russia but you state how surprised you were of how many russian men walked out on there wifes, how would you know this if you had never been to russia?

... in response to something doesn't add up here, posted by ron on Nov 26, 2001

Sorry Shelock,  I was using the generic RM.  Maybe I should have asked what nationality they were..  As mentioned I have vbeen to Ukraine,  ONe of the ladies I spoke to was Russian, I assume her Husband was Russian..  Ok Lets say UM...  Thie issue is the same.

... in response to something doesn't add up here, posted by ron on Nov 26, 2001

His pattern of behavior is extremely identifiable. I could point you to several series of posts on another board and you would instantly recognize the pattern of posting - the pattern of response - and the manner and attitude contained.

This is not the first time we have seen this guy here. He genuinely has a screw loose - and doesn't mind displaying it for all to see.

I've come to believe that he really does have a deep-down desparate need to believe that someone finds his 'contributions' valuable. His one way of accomplishing that is to try the internet equivalent of shouting louder than everyone else - either by vitriolic posts or by sheer drowning the board in his bile. He *has* learned to tone down the vitriole, lest Patrick ban him from this board entirely and he would lose yet another mouthpiece (he has been banned from 2 other boards), but it has been on display in full and gruesome color on other boards in the past - and to a lesser extent, it continues here.

I do not know the solution exactly. The 4 or 5 times he has appeared here and elsewhere, the only defense was to respond to his each and every baseless and/or accusational post with a set of facts that refute his craziness.

Candidly, I begin to worry for the guy's mental health. I honestly believe, like DavidSD, that he is genuinely a looney tune (no, that is NOT a technical term --smile--), with fewer and fewer lucid moments. I am a bit worried that the confrontational approach that has worked in the past might drive the poor fellow over the edge this time. OTOH, the option of allowing his garbage to stand and for the possibility that someone might read, and believe it, can be equally damaging.

Anyway - you now have a few more bits of data to allow you to put this crap into context.

I hope this helps.

- Dan

... in response to Ron (and Others), You May Not Have Seen ..., posted by Dan on Nov 26, 2001

Need not to worry about his mental health.  He, perhaps, was raised in some sect or in very strict religious group.
And strap his blade a little too much.        He only keeps on missing the bus and he wonder why.

... in response to something doesn't add up here, posted by ron on Nov 26, 2001

What doesn't add up is how he knows that the men live close to their children.  I could find statistics on the divorce rate, and even how many men are in contact with their children, but to know that these men live close to their kids I would only know by being there.

... in response to Re: something doesn't add up here, posted by Jeff on Nov 26, 2001

Well done...  This is correct...  I know becauzxe this was my experience...  Do you have anything to add...  I spemnt three months  (Two in Kiev)...  Not two weeks.