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n/t

... in response to StanB, how is it going?  n/t, posted by KenC on Oct 28, 2001

Aloha Ken & thanx for asking. Marina and I are getting along very well, but I, and thus we are having some problems with her daughter. She is a really smart girl, but she seems to be making no effort to learn english, or at least its not apparent to me. I think she'd be doing a little better if Marina pushed her a little, but she doesn't appear to be doing so either. We do have a computer program thats a pre-k learner and she mastered using the mouse on her 1st try, but she doesn't seem that interested in using what she has been learning, just playing w/ the computer. (I think I'm venting :-(  But otherwise they both seem to love it here, as they love the weather, the beach & pool.
Thus my question for those of you who brought children over is, how far along were they after a month? Am I being overly optimistic that I should be seeing some results after a month? And what should I expect to see during the next few months, as far as a learning curve for a bright 4 1/2 year old? Thanx...Stan

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Better give her instruction on how to use floss and a toothbrush!!

... in response to Re: Re: What is she going to be for Hall..., posted by wsbill on Oct 29, 2001

Snow White and halloween is HUGE here, its called the Mardi Gras of Maui.
And I can't wait to get them on my insurance, as Katya's teeth are defineately in bad shape.

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

My daughter started KG in January 2000 (after being here just one month).  She is now in 2nd grade and doing just fine.  She has no Russian accent already, and in fact her Russian is very poor both pronounciation and grammatically.  When she talks on the phone to relatives, they are 'shocked' at how her Russian has deteriorated in such a short time, despite the fact that Mom speaks to her almost exclusively in Russian.

Stevo

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Stan,

How much Russian have you learned in the last month?

Take care,

... in response to Re: Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Wayne on Oct 29, 2001

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... in response to Re: Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Wayne on Oct 29, 2001

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... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Is the little girl at school yet? She will not learn from Engish lessons on the pc - she will learn from wanting to communicate with you & her school chums. Also she will want to learn from TV cartoons. Get some classic cartoons for her on tape, like Snow white, Sleeping beauty etc. Let her continue to learn Russian from her mum - you will want her to communicate with her grandparents back home.

She will learn the language at a speed that is necessary for her to communicate. She may speak to you in English & her mum in Russian. You will speak to her school chums in English & she will learn this quickly. After 6 months she will be able to make her thoughts known & after 1 year she will be fine, but behind the rest of her class - nothing to worry about because she will be years ahead of her class in Russian!

Make sure she is getting English as a foreign language help at school. My daughter is 6 & she came to England at 5 years old.

Katya

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

My 9 year old stepdaughter spoke zero english when she arrived and after the first summer, spent almost exclusively with her mother (shy about neighbnorhood kids), went right into the local 3rd grade - no special schools or tutoring. By the end of the first school year she was fluent, by the end of the second, had lost her accent, and by middle school was in honors English classes. Yes, she was teased some for her pronunciation at first, but she got over it quickly. Id say just relax and have fun with her, doing kid things together. That's what will bond her to you. BTW, my step daughter started calling me "daddy" after couple of months - it just melted my heart - she still does even though she's in her 20s, and it still has the very same effect on me.

-- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

you must chill with children. this is very difficult for her. My nephew is here-my wife's brother's son, and he is leanring-at his own pace. I play 'what is this?" with him. She will learn. Most important do not let her foret her native language. The son of my wife's friends is 6 and has forgotten eveything---------------very very very sad.
Joe

... in response to Yoe StanB...................., posted by yoe on Oct 29, 2001

I actually can't imagine her mother allowing her to forget how to speak Russian & Ukrainian, and being the bright girl that she is I don't imagine that being a problem.
And being that I've only worked 1 night since I got back from vacation, we've had plenty of time to do something fun almost everyday. This afternoon it will be the beach, so you can tell how we're suffering...aloha and thanx

... in response to yoe  Yoe...................., posted by Stan B on Oct 29, 2001

The young of any species will adapt to their surroundings quickly, including the adaptation their new language... to leave their home language in the past.

My late 20's step-daughter is from the Philippines, and she can't speak anything but valley girl, even though she was around her mother forever that also spoke their native language.

It just happens.

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Stan,
You got some very good advice below.  Being with a woman that has a child is a very tricky proposition.  In the begining you have a tendency to jump too quickly into the role of "Dad".  At this point you are only her Mother's finacee.  Focus on that and leave most of the parenting to Marina.  Let Marina do the correcting for now.  Unless the girl is going to hurt herself, you, Marina or cause some damage, step back for now.  In time, she will automaticly turn to you for guidance.  Only then, will she think of you as her Dad.  Step parenting is very difficult and frustrating.  Concentrate on you and Marina for now.  (That is plenty)  Your relationship with the girl will develope naturally over time.  The advice to get away from it all occasionally is also very good and will save your sanity.  Best wishes for you and your new family (in the making).
KenC

... in response to the "Dad" part will come later, posted by KenC on Oct 29, 2001

we've been doing. I only step in when she's doing something that 'scares' me. And I do have a pretty good relationship w/ Katya already, as we go to the pool or beach almost everyday and play. And about the only time she gets mad at me is if I tell her no when she wants candy for breakfast or her 3rd serving of ice cream. And Marina and I take little time-outs from each other regularly, she gives me my NFL games and she goes out and takes walks or studies by the pool while I'm on the computer and Katya watches a Disney video, like right now.
And last night we had a good talk and Marina understood what I've been trying to get thru to her, and that is if she doesn't ask Katya to try and start using english, it will just take longer until she does. As she shy's away from other children due to the frustrating expirences she's had. And we are talking about an exceptionally bright child here. She already knows about 100 words of english, the only problem was she NEVER uses them. In the Ukraine she was learning things that children 6-7 were learning. And I have no doubt that she will also excel here.
Thus this morning Marina explained to her that she should start to try using english a little more, so that she could start to make friends and talk to me. And so far it seems to have worked, as she's already used at least 20 words, not counting candy & ice cream :-)
So for now we seem solidly on track and its shaping up to be a beautiful day...aloha

... in response to actually thats what..., posted by Stan B on Oct 29, 2001

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... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Stan,

I have to agree with all that was said in posts below. I do not think you have a problem at all. The only problem is you are facing something you have no experience with. So patience and understanding is the key here in your new situation.
I will demonstrate one example that I had a chance to observe for years since my friends migrated to Australia about 9 years ago. They have two children who were 6 and 8 years old at that time, with NO knowledge of English. Needless to say, the same applied to their parents.
Both kids attended a special school for the first 3 months, this school was for children of new migrants. They did improve their English greatly during that time, but what I believe had the greatest influence on their learning English was an everyday contact with other kids, neighbours, friends etc. So I have to agree with all that it is all the natural process for a child to pick up a new language, especially that young.
They do speak Czech in the household the whole time, and I think that it did not have any negative effect in terms of slowing down their English learning curve. And I am talking about the children here. There should be no surprise that the kids' English was far more superior to their parents' in a few months.

I do agree with Oatmeal here that your new daughter should never lose her Russian skills (to be more precise, you and your wife should not allow that to happen) because it is an asset not easily to acquire otherwise. It may seem quite unreal for you at the moment but I do think that if not "forced" to talk in Russian at home by your wife, she will refuse to talk Russian at home at all. This process can take months or years but it will happen. I believe the peer pressure is to blame in this case, as young children are often "embarrassed" they speak in other native language so they try to avoid that as much as they can.
It may be positive for some, but I do not share this view.

It is only my opinion, and I think it is an interesting topic indeed. As to me, I will be in a similar situation hopefully soon. So any other opinion and experience is most welcome here.

Good luck and take it easy. I can imagine it is difficult for you (it will be difficult for me, too). But only because it is something new, a huge change in your life. And I can understand your frustration too because obviously you can communicate with your daughter only in English.

Any change is difficult. But honestly, I believe you have a unique opportunity here to raise your child to be bilingual without any special effort.

Cheers

Mick

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

I can't remember that far back... but give the little girl a break.  Relax, they'll pick up english in no time.  Remember, this is a new life and social setting for them.  I think the more interaction they have with the local children kids their age, the better she will pick up english.

My lady has a 4 yo little boy and he can speak a little english, not a mouth full.  But some words.  She said he picked up alot from the Cartoon Network.

Four and a half years old....  I don't know about you, but there are somedays the little bugger got on my nerves as I just wasn't use to something that young and full of life around me when I was visiting her in Kiev.

He was like the third wheel and she payed more attention to him than me.  But rightfully so.  I recall one time the kid was in the flat and was just being kind of wild and of course I had spend the day with them, all day longs... I was like tired and needed my space.  I was close to flippin out!

The mother said to me, "he is a just a little boy" and she gave me this motherly face... which put me in my place.

Maybe what I'm hearing from you is you, need your space to relax and unwind.  I would recommend creating a little spot/space in your apartment which is where you can hide away and relax...and quietly think.

My mother has told me, my father would get up early in the mornings and have a cup of coffee and enjoy the peace and quiet...this was his time to enjoy life.  Since we're all guys who probably live a simple life in front of this dang-ole computer, alot of noise or commotion is sort of greek to us.

... in response to Re: Stan... what do you remember when yo..., posted by wsbill on Oct 29, 2001

Many ladies and kids know some english, but they'll stare at you with a blank face and watch you get all flustered.  Why they do this - I have no idea.  But it might be equated back to the logic the guy is never wrong and so they won't say a thing, but instead look at you kinda dumfounded like.

Like you said, she's sharp.  She's quietly taking in all which is so new around her and in due time she will speak up and reach out.

Interesting thing my step-mother who is a motisori(?) teacher told me.  When you talk to a child kneel down to their height level and look at them in the eye, like eye to eye and then talk to them...   Nobody likes look up to someone, as if your mighter than them.

There is something really neat about sitting on the floor and talking with your child, like in a personal tone that no one else can hear and just tell them you would never hurt them and you really think they are special to you.

It's going to take some time for this girl to fall in love with you Stan.  But it will happen.  What's that saying about a mother & her son or the father & daugter, create a special bond... Their is alot of truth there.

One month is not a very long time... Give us a report in 6 months on her vocabulary.  I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised.

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Man I think you maybe expecting a little too much out of a 4 1/2 year old.  I may be way off base here but I really think that things will work itself out naturally (especially when the little girl starts playing with other English speaking children).

I would sure encourage your wife to try to use English around the house as much as possible but still allow her to speak Russian from time to time as that should NEVER be lost for either her or her daughter. (IMHO)
 
I would think the way to go would be to try your best to just relax but be as supportive as possible for both your wife and daughter.  Progress may seem slow at times I am sure but I would think that at this point the added pressure would not be a good thing.

I wish you continued success with your marriage and new family.

... in response to Re: StanB, how is it going?, posted by Stan B on Oct 28, 2001

Be darned glad you've got a kid that young to deal with!  You are in a ripe position to do all of the correct things, given the right environment, support, and positive reinforcement of the value of this child in YOUR life.

Marina will and should play the most pivotal role in this; however, Marina's got her own adjusting to do at the same time, and can only handle so much at once.  Just because she moved to the land of the free doesn't mean that her mind is totally clear of all the problems that exist in her head and has to do nothing but focus on her daughter.  

I could give you a million resources for "step-parenting", but that would be tootin somebody else's horn, and many of the rules would not apply, and would lead you to utter frustration because it's a language barrier that you're dealing with, not the typical "communications barrier" that exists between most (i have to say this) idiot couples.

Go SLOW!  Be VERY patient.  Remember, EVERYTHING you do at this part of her life will be remembered forever, and alter her behavior towards you in the end...

This kid is still -almost- a baby, (more-so because of the language sit) and must be respected and understood as one.  Then again, if you constantly voice or exhibit disapproval, or frustration with her, (even if you feel it but don't say it) it will destroy your relationship in more ways than one.  Remember, kids can sense things in adults much faster than they will ever tell you.

Jeez.. what a topic!  This one absolutely takes the cake.

I raised several stepdaughters (20 years worth) and am still attached to them, and I'll tell you, there is no substitute for real experience; welcome to the club.  I never had the language barrier problem, but knowing what I know now...    (thank you God I kept my cool for so long!)..

Maintain your patience and acceptance.  Immersion in the society of the US will go a long way to acclimate the child (and mom) in the necessity to learn english.  It will take time, and one hell of a lot longer than a month... take that to mean, don't push the accelerator to the floor when somebody else has the brakes on, otherwise you'll end up burning out the power train.

Relax...... give this some serious time to mature.  Let things happen naturally, and forget how efficient you can do things at work, as they never work that way at home anyway; be it aw, or rw.

Just my own 2 cents... I'm sure there's a lot of step-parents her that can provide more info and feedback on this thing.  I'll tell you though, I'm amazed at the thoughts in my head that have literally grown to exponential proportions just by this one post.  Wow.

Good luck... and walk slowly.

... in response to Re: Re: Whoa Man!, posted by BrianN on Oct 28, 2001

Like I said , I was defineately venting when I posted earilier, as I really don't have an outlet other than here that I feel comfortable w/. Thanx for putting me in my place and I realize things could be a lot worse. I do realize that she is an incredibly bright and lively child and in time I am pretty sure that it will all work out.
I also realize that besides all of this being new to the both of them, being a full-time parent is also a new thing for Marina too. She always worked full-time and thus Katya was raised more by her grandmother & aunt, whom they shared their apartment with. And I have a feeling that they were also the authority figures in Katya's life, thus leading to her constantly testing her mother as she explores her new boundries.
Anyway I want to thank all you guys for your advice, because even though I pretty much knew everything you all have said, its reassuring to hear it from other intelligent life forms...aloha

... in response to thanx for the perspective, posted by Stan B on Oct 29, 2001

One thing you can try is to have the child teach you how to speak Russian or at least improve what you already have. The child will have to learn some English in order to teach you Russian.

-blm