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If there were a girl that you really wanted, but she was in the middle of Siberia, would you try to go meet her?  I've seen a girl that is making me think about it.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

1) I would schedule a trip to a more accessible area when she was going to be in this other place anyway, like on her vacation. So there would be no need for you to pay for it.

2) Have backup plans in the area to meet other women in the more accessible area.

3) If things go well with your meeting, go back with her to her hometown.

This worked for me, but we're not talking Siberia here.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

I'm not in this situation yet but I might be in the future.  There are always a couple of girls that are hard to get to and probably few people write to them.  This girl I'm thinking about is very good looking but I am wondering if I want to bring back a girl that looks like a model.  I have dated girls that are very attractive and they can be more trouble than they're worth.  Of course this girl could be a scammer too.  I always look skeptically at girls that look like models.  

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

...what you've "seen"? I assume you have had, or will have, some extensive communications with her before you roll these dice. Otherwise, at this point, it sounds like your thinking with the wrong head.

Having said that, I would go anywhere if it feels "right". Distance
is not the issue, doing your homework is. Besides, if it pans out, you'll
need to meet her family anyway.

I once had a great prospect from Omsk, the women there seem to be very nice. She was very beautiful, but she was a lawyer.

No thanks. Even I have limits.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

My fiancee, who is now here in Boston (and healthy!) grew up in Surgut, Siberia.  It is a two hour plain ride from Moscow to the Eastern part of Siberia.  You will be a rock-star there as an American.  You can call the concierge at the hotel for flight information, and I suggest you stay for at least one night, and buy your ticket without advance puchase requirements after you arrive.  If you do not plan to stay in Moscow for more than one night, stay at a hotel near the airport and save yourself the ridiculous taxi fares.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

yes, go to see her. But which agency did you see her on? There is an agency in Omsk which is a little suspect.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

A better plan would be for her to meet you in Moscow or St. Pete. You will be able to come up with a better backup plan and it's an easier out if things don't click. If you don't do anything else, have a backup plan---- preferably with several options--------or you can just give me the money you intend to spend and I'll tell you how much fun you had when I get back ;)

Several years ago, I had a late occuring correspondance relationship with a lady from Moscow, added a side leg to a already planned trip just to see her, photos and letters were "smokin", I knew she had to be the "one", I barely made it thru lunch when we first met-------"0" chemistry, conversation was nil. We never spoke again and I spent the last four days in Moscow scrambling for something to make the trip worthwhile------------Don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Lynn

... in response to Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Lynn on Oct 28, 2001

SO WHAT DO YOU DO IF YOU MEET IN A NETURAL COUNTRY.  I DONT HAVE A BACKUP PLAN EXCEPT TO SPEND A COUPLE OF DAYS BEFORE WE MEET I AMSTERDAM

... in response to Re: Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Leslie on Oct 29, 2001

How did your girl get a visitor visa to Amsterdam?

... in response to Re: Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Leslie on Oct 29, 2001

Before you meet isn't going to do you much good, unless you have already made contacts there and are planning to see them as well. I think I would search online agencies for some backup in that area or consider changing your destination. I would never agree to meet in a 3rd country without meeting her first.
But there is something to be said about the two of you going to a third country preferably somewhere where neither of you speak the language (at least not well), renting a apartment for a week or to and playing "house" later on as the relationship progresses. I have done this. If you are out of your usual comfort zone, it puts you in the situation of having to depend on each other. You can learn a lot about yourself and your prospective bride in a short time and it's a lot cheaper than the whole bit of the fiance visa. If all goes well, then I would go for the fiance visa, but I would not let this be known as the reason for the trip.

regards,

Lynn

... in response to Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Lynn on Oct 28, 2001

Lynn, I do not agree with you. Meeting a lady in her home is very important. It is a good way of finding scammers. The first trick of a scammer is to suggest meeting in a "neutral" country. They make men pay money for air tickets & then they find some excuse why they couldn't go.

... in response to Re: Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

I had that happen to me but I thought she had dishonesty written all over her and I never responded to her.

She said she was very attracted to me and wanted to meet me right away in Turkey.  She asked for $500 to pay for airfare and she also asked for $50 a month for her email expenses.  She seemed dishonest in every way.  Too bad for her because she was my first choice.  They only need to find one stupid man a year to make it worth their effort.

... in response to That's a very good tip, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

is precious.

... in response to Re: Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

If the initial meeting goes well, I agree meeting her in her home is important, very important. But to not ever have met this person face to face and to travel to somewhere that it is difficult to have a backup plan is not logical, nor is it practical in a cost versus return case. Which is more efficient: to be able to easily make other contacts if the first meeting goes awry and save the remainder of the trip by just paying for her transportation and stay (which ammounts to little compared to the total loss of the man's trip expenses-----visa, international flights, transportation, lodging, meals,etc.) or to travel to her home at first-----in which the man's and the lady's expectations are very high, all her friends and family know about the "visit" and are in high hopes or anticipation of the results---------hopefully the results would be positive, but one never knows, if things go well, great.
But if not, she may be in a position of being embarrassed before her friends and family. In such a case the man, unless he has very good backup plans, has forfeited his trip, his time and not only is he disappointed, he must try to salvage the remnants of the trip------not a good scenario.
I agree that scammers will sometimes ask for money for airfare and then never show, but what is wrong with her taking the train or asking her to pay for her fare to where you are and then giving her the money the round trip when she arrives (I have done this several times with good results, BUT this too is no assurance that she is not a scammer------speaking from experience). This whole venture is risky business, but as with anything the risk must be weighted against the possible gain.

best regards,

Lynn

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Lynn on Oct 28, 2001

I don't know Lynn, some of what you say makes sense, but it's mixed up with other things that I don't think will help. I think that even looking at the RW situation a year ago, there are many more scammers around now & we have to help the men who are looking for wives.

You can visit a girl in say Odessa & still have an escape route - I don't see why you need to be in a 3rd country or town. In fact that way, you are paying more money because you must pay for her expenses & travel costs. You must send her money - which is a risk for you.

Put this against meeting a girl in her home. You can meet her parents, her friends. You can look around her apartment - does she have her own computer, scanner (red flag), printer? Does she look well-off? Is her apartment in good condition, is it in a good area? Do her parents meet you & have dinner with you?

These are all things you need to sort out early on - within 3 months of the relationship starting. There are so many advantages of meeting her at her home, I really don't see the point of taking the risk of meeting elsewhere. A girl truly intersted in you will WANT you to meet her parents & grandparents & children.

I know that some men like the supermarket approach. But do this with care. Choose 1 city & then write to a few girls from the same city. You can then visit & see all of them at once. I don't personally agree with this & most Russian women would be hurt & feel that they were not being treated right.

Here is my suggestion for any men who are still reading this. Check out ALL the web sites every day. Look at the new girls, read the profiles. Figure which ones are from agencies. A few months of this & you will learn a lot. Write to a few girls - 6 or 8. Learn about them, their families & what they want & like to do. The girl who uses a friends computer is best. Make sure that they are compatible with your true wants. Don't write to a girl who looks like a model if you look like a dustbin! Russian girls will always want their man to be taller than them, even when the girl is in high heels. As you write watch out for red flags. A good girl will never ask for money, apart from maybe email/translation costs. Pay this direct to the girl - not the agency. Get the girl's home address & phone number. Cut down your girls to 1 & get to know her deeply. Get her to find an apartment for you & fly out & meet her. See how you get on. Go home. If you are from the US you can't get her to visit you, so fly out again & meet her again, or maybe in a 3rd country this time. I don't like 3rd countries because you are trying to find a wife. You are trying to see if you can get on with this girl for the rest of your life. In a 3rd country it is a holiday for you both. It is not a real test. Get her to visit you at home - if you're not in the US. After 3 visits at least - go for the fiancee visa. If it doesn't work - start again. This is a wife that you are looking for - do it right.

Anyone close to a Russian woman will know that everyone has their "part". Your part is out there - & she's looking for you.

I wish you good luck
Katya

... in response to How do find a wife, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

Apparently, you misunderstood what I was saying in my post. I did not indicate that she should travel to a third country and I certainly would not consider Odessa a place where it would be hard to come up with a back-up plan if your first choice didn't work (If you can't find a back-up plan in Odessa----give up).
 What I suggested was not to go to some very out of the way place to meet just one lady---------for instance: four years ago I was writing a lady from the Samara region, she seemed very nice (how can you really tell the personality from a piece of paper and a photo?). I had opportunity for me to travel for three weeks. I wanted to see her, but as I searched for a back-up (just in case) I found very few that I would consider in that region listed on any website at that time. While she explained that where she lived was a large prosperous city (due to the mines there) with a lot of things to do there, she also said that it was basicly in the middle nowhere. Also, I learned quite by chance that she was apparently friends with at least two of the other ladies listed on the site where I saw her ad. If I had went there and things didn't go well, I would have been really scrambling to salvage the trip. I do enjoy going to nightclubs from time to time, but I would hate to think that my trip were reduced to scouring the clubs to find a wife. This lady rode the train to Odessa from Samara, just to see me for three days with the understanding that if things went well that I would go back home with her to meet her family. She asked for "no" money for the fare there, only that I would pay for her room (I insisted on paying all her expenses when she arrived, which she reluctantly accepted, later). She came to Odessa, was there for the three days, we enjoyed each other's company, had some good times, decided that we would keep in touch and she went on her way back home. I then went on to meet with two others that I had contact with in the Odessa area, then on to Kiev to meet a friend of a friend there.
Other than this misunderstanding, the above post is very good and good information for those looking.

regards,

Lynn

... in response to A little misunderstanding......, posted by Lynn on Oct 28, 2001

I'm sorry, you are right that I did not understand you. In fact I know Samara a little, my father used to work there - it was called Kuybyshev in the Soviet times. It is a big city, but probably far away from much communication with the Western world.

I fell in love with my husband though emails - so it is possible sometimes to be sure in your heart.

Good luck
Katya

... in response to Re: A little misunderstanding......, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

Hi Katya,

   I did a double take when you said you fell in love with your husband through emails.  Now,  I find that curious...certainly not impossible.  If you do not mind my asking---why and how did that come about---to fall in love in emails?   Best,  Tim

... in response to emails???, posted by tim360z on Oct 28, 2001

I meant - through email correspondence. Sorry.

Katya

... in response to Re: emails???, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

....yes I thought you meant through.  So,  let me understand that.  When you say "through correspondence"... do you mean through letters...like before you ever met him,  your heart and mind had deep feelings for him???  Tim

... in response to Exactly!, posted by tim360z on Oct 28, 2001

Yes, though email correspondence, we fell in love & I knew that he was my Part. There was a LOT of emails!  :-)

Katya

... in response to Re: Exactly!, posted by Katya on Oct 29, 2001

thanks,  Tim

... in response to How do find a wife, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

I liked your post and it contains some really good info but I have to agree with KenC on this one that it is just too risky to visit one girl at a time.  I am not saying that you have to betray your intentions of any of the girls but in my case I wrote a girl for over 4 Months and was sure she was just perfect but I knew within just a few minutes that it would not work out between us.  

If I had only planned on meeting her and had not established any other correspondence then I could have really been in big trouble.  Personally I would have really prefered to have taken it one girl at a time but it just isn't practical and I could not see spending all that money to take such a risk on a girl I had not met in person at least once.

The ladies on the other hand have a much different perspective because they don't typically have the restrictions that the man does in this case and if it doesn't work out for the lady then they go back to life as usual but for the man it could mean a financial setback for a long, long, long, time.  For me I could only plan for 1 trip each year.  I would probably shoot myself in the head if I didn't make any other arrangements and I could not return again for a year because I failed to make necessary plans i.e. backups.

... in response to Re: How do find a wife, posted by Oatmeal on Oct 28, 2001

I understand all you things. Please remember though that the FSU girl is also risking much when she writes to one man only. Most girls will do this though. The risk is that she has very little money & is spending  all her money so she can pay for emails & travel to the computer or agency. Everyone risks things in a relationship & it is love which make you trust a person completely. You were writing to a girl for four months & still were not in love? Maybe you were not in love because you were spreading your time with other girls, or maybe she was just not your part.

Sorry, I don't mean to get involved in your relationship.

But please remember that if you spend $1000 travelling to see a girl, you may have wasted your money & your vacation from work. Your girl however has so little money she she exists day to day. She has no resources to waste. Maybe this winter she must eat pickled mushrooms every day. Who has invested more in the failed relationship?

Katya

... in response to Re: Re: How do find a wife, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

Katya, It costs a lot more than that for us to make a trip.  It costs $2500 minimum but I have spent $5500 on a tour.  Just going to Russia or the Ukraine is a big financial comitment for most men.  A lot of the girls are very different when you meet them.  If the girl even acts disinterested we are not going to make a comitment.

... in response to Trip Costs, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

Hi Bubba,

    Katya is correct from my experience.  The nice girls think much less of you if you are on the "cattle drive".  At best they think you are the foolish fox chasing to many rabbits.  At worst you are a lecher.  However depending on your taste in accomadations it can get pricey.  And personally for me...I would loose more money by not being at work for 3 weeks because I was not there to personally take care of business.  But,  for meeting the right few girls...I would risk 2 weeks.  Tim

... in response to Trip Costs, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

Sorry, I did not mean tours. I didn't think anyone used tours on this BBS? The organised tours are very bad thought of in Ukraine. There are TV programmes all the time showing girls treated like cattle. I have seen girls fighting each other outside of the big hotels for who sleeps with an American man for the night. I'm sorry, I get angry sometimes, I think that some of the bad women make it harder for the nice girls to find their man. I know that many bad women are attracted to the men on tours. Often they bribe the tour people to let them meet the men.

For $1000 I meant for travelling on your own to see 1 girl. I know from London a plane fare is about $324 to Odessa & an appartment is about $35 per day. That's about $600 + some money for food etc.

Katya

... in response to Re: Trip Costs, posted by Katya on Oct 29, 2001

For the most part, attending one of the big tours is a waste of money, unless you have no contacts, no travel savy, no idea of what to do and or enjoy going to a cattle auction. I know a few people who found their wives at such events and are happily married. But, I also noticed that there are a lot of desparate hunters (male & female) at these events and not all are in search of the same thing. And I'm sure that it is worse now than when I attended socials put on by EC, what a cattle call. If a man feels that he needs to spend a wad of money to temporarily boost his ego, I would guess that would be as good as any thing to do. I personally know several interpreters in Odessa and Kiev who refuse to work these things because in their words "it's so ridiculous".

regards,

Lynn

... in response to Re: Re: Trip Costs, posted by Lynn on Oct 29, 2001

I have personally met 2 couples who met on a big tour...they got married both 5 and 6 years ago.  Met 7 years ago.  And as of 2 years ago they were still happily married.  However,  I would not use that as an indicator for todays market...things have changed in many ways.  7 years ago the tours were rather new and I beleive that over the years that both the intentions and the quality of women and men who attend them has declined.  In monetary terms the big tours appear to me to be a huge mark-up for those with zero knowledge of the FSU....and even less imagination.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Trip Costs, posted by tim360z on Oct 29, 2001

I went on my first tour out of curiousity, the second time was due to lack of time in my schedule to even think about planning a trip and a bit of procrastination on my part. My first tour trip was to Ukraine, the second to Moscow------what a joke that was, except the interpreter that I had there--------that lady really rocked my world in a big way.

... in response to How do find a wife, posted by Katya on Oct 28, 2001

Katya,
You make many very good points about visiting the woman's home town and family.  I just don't know how practial visiting one woman at a time is without a back up plan.  Please understand that I did go to visit one woman (with a back up plan)and everything worked out great for me.  In the begining, most of the guys here are looking to establish a relationship rather than to enhance an exisisting one.  Very good post though.
KenC

... in response to Re: How to find a wife, posted by KenC on Oct 28, 2001

I know that it could be a problem if you were stuck in an FSU country with nothing to do. Maybe it would be good for people to have a list of agency addresses - then at least they could visit them. Maybe better is to contact a good guide/translator.

I suppose we can only suggest what we see has worked. I have many friends who have also left Ukraine & my mum helps girls in a little mini agency. What I see is that it works well if two people get close by email correspondence first. Other ways work also I'm sure.

I can tell you one thing, that if my husband had come to meet many women, I would have been very grumpy about him.

:-)

Katya

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Lynn on Oct 28, 2001

Lynn,
I understand your logic, but I have some questions too. If you were to bring a woman to meet you in Moscow from an outlying area:
Do you set the meeting for just one day?
What happens if she "rocks your world"?
If you set the meeting over more than one day, what if you two are like oil and water?  What are the "sleeping arragnments?

I am asking for the guys still looking, as I am well past that time.  

I was lucky that I didn't have that problem.  My wife's city was only a few hours away from Moscow.  My first trip was to her city during our New Year (which they celebrate) and Orthodox Christmas.  This is a great time to visit as there are so many parties and family dinners.  The weather sucks, but EVERYTHING cannot always be perfect.  On my second trip we just hooked up in Moscow, but by that time, we were more serious about our relationship.
KenC

... in response to nice to see you posting again, posted by KenC on Oct 28, 2001

Thanks KenC,

Due to the "troll terrorists" and being too busy otherwise to even lurk here, it has been a while.

Most of the ladies that I have had to come meet me came to Odessa or Kiev. I have had two to meet me in Moscow. I usually travel for two--three weeks at a time and usually at least two cities. What I have done in the past was to have those who are coming to see me scheduled for two or three days somewhere about the middle of my stay with at least a day or two in between to allow for the unexpected.
I guess that I have been very fortunate in that many of the women that I have met either had family or friends in or around the city that we met in and wanted to visit them while they were there. But there have been a few instances when we just did not mix and it has been quite awkward in the end. I would rather that she stay with a friend of her family, which seems to work best for me, but if she knows none there I get her a hotel room or sometimes she may stay with me (this creates problems finding a out, then is when you have to be creative). Sometimes you may get stuck with enduring the unpleasant time together, been there, done that too.
As for sleeping arrangements, that has been strange at times-------ranging from the lady insisting on sleeping on the sofa, to the classic question "can I sleep with you and we no f^^k", not that really expected to, but at least there was understanding between us. I for one do not like to kiss and tell about anything else.

What if she really rocks my world? That has happened, just not with the right one. I know she is out there, but for now I am laying low and back to writing. As soon as I can sell a large tract of realestate I invested in, I will back in the hunt hard and heavy, right now I'm land poor;)  

The holiday season in the FSU is a blast, I spent New Years in Kiev last year.

best regards to you and your wife,

Lynn

... in response to Re: Let me pose this question, posted by Lynn on Oct 28, 2001

I agree with Lynn and would never go anywhere to meet anyone with out a lot of backup ladies.  It will be almost possible to have backup ladies in Siberia, so if they won't come to a major city where you have backup ladies, forget it.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

I definitely would travel that far.  Heck I have already traveled several thousand miles so why not a few more so to speak.  But I sure would have plenty of backup and this is why.

I placed a personal ad this past year and got plenty of really decent responses.  There was this one girl that I was interested in and after sending a couple of letters she immediately rose to the top of my list of girls to meet. We wrote each other for over 4 months. I wanted to meet her right away but as my trip was planned out I could not meet her until about 10 days into my trip.  I really felt that I would fall in love with this girl but as it turned out I knew right away that it would not work out between us.  

I will paraphrase by saying that "UNTIL YOU MEET IN PERSON, NOTHING IS A SURE THING" and even then it can be unexpected about what can happen so just don't burn your bridges too close behind you... Make sure you have plenty of backup and your lucky rabbits foot to boot.

It might work out and it might not but good luck just the same.

... in response to Let me pose this question, posted by BubbaGump on Oct 28, 2001

Absolutely! But, only after a lengthy period of relevant communications. Take your time, 'cause she's not going anywhere soon (especially now that winter has started) and it's a hell of a lot further than Sheremetevo II...