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Hey guys,
Long time no post. Had to actually post a "test" to see if I could still post. I don't remember my password so I guess my browser has done it for me. I tried to post from Kiev but couldn't remember my password to save my life. Now I will be forever banned to post simply from home.

Just returned from a 10 day Hiatus to Kiev, wanted to give some quick and short insights to the differences I found between Russia and Ukraine. I loved Kiev, what a cool city. By far, my favorite city. Moscow, St. Pete's and Dimitrovgrad do not even begin to compare with Kiev. I truly loved Kiev. When in Russia, I never felt completely "safe". Always on alert. In Kiev, I felt very safe. Not sure why but I did.

Women: Of course this is my opinion and not an invitation for a pissing match. I think Ukrainian women are far better looking than russian women. Just my opinion.

The Metro in Kiev is identical to that of ST. petes. Same smell also. There are so many things to see in Kiev it is unbelievable.

As for the city girl versus the village girl BS, it's purely that. I think Kiev women are very kind, gentle and nice. I met several and was impressed with all of them. The people of Kiev were very friendly to me and I had a ball.

Jack, I met a guy on my trip home who was on your social. He met a girl and said he loved it. Kudo's to you and your company. He was very satisfied. Sorry we couldn't hook up but I couldn't get your cell # to work properly.

Recommendations: I went to see one girl but met many of her friends and relatives. All sweeties. Walking down the streets of Kiev is a beautiful site, gorgeous babes everywhere and I do mean EVERYWHERE. As for recommendations, my future will be that of going ALONE next time. I'm not setting up a meeting with anyone. I'm not contacting or emailing anyone in advance. The ability to meet women in Ukraine or Russia is wide open. You don't need to "pre-meet" anyone online. Just go and have a good time as yourself. The key will be to have a good GUIDE/INTERPRETER. I think hooking up with a good guy or gal will go along way. Hang out with them, see the sights with them and I guarantee you will meet an amazing number of women who you are DEFINITELY ATTRACTED to and they are interested in you. You don't need agencies or email. Just go and get with the program. It's great to have companies like Jack's Firstdream to use for transporation, flats, interpreters etc... but forget the emailing correspondence crap. Go and find your mate, don't shop for her.

That's all.
Mark H.

... in response to Trip report and hello....., posted by Mark H on Oct 16, 2001

Hey MarkHster!

Good to hear from you. I agree with on Kiev, I have been there twice and look forward to the next time. Glad to hear that you had a better time than your last trip over. Look forward to more stuff...

... in response to Re: Trip report and Privet, posted by WmGo on Oct 17, 2001

Wmgoonagoagainsoon?

When you going again my friend? I'm planning something for Late february of next year. I"m going to jerk on Dan's chain a bit and possibly go to Lviv. Dan, I'm going to email you for some info. Cold here today.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: Trip report and Privet, posted by Mark H on Oct 17, 2001

Hope to go to Kiev during the winter. No specific dates yet. Lviv is a very cool city. A good place to visit. Very historical and loaded with attractive ladies.

... in response to Re: Re: Trip report and Privet, posted by Mark H on Oct 17, 2001

Hi Mark,

Sure - fire away. I'll be happy to answer anything I can.

In fact, as I recollect, Mr. WmGO has also visited the Lion City (Lviv) - and can probably offer a tidbit or two. For that matter, Quasimoto (Steve) has also visited Lviv - a couple of times, I think. Maybe a few others I have forgotten about. Should be a wealth of information available here.

- Dan

... in response to Lviv - Lviv - Did I Hear Someone Mention..., posted by Dan on Oct 17, 2001

fda

... in response to Trip report and hello....., posted by Mark H on Oct 16, 2001

While I haven't been to Russia, after three trips to Ukraine, there's something that keeps drawing me to Kiev.  It's rich in history, friendly people, I've always felt safe, and yes, beautiful women everywhere.  It always gives me a sense of like I'm returning home to a country where I once lived.  I'm planning on returning next spring and this time looking for an apartment to buy.  With four years till retirement eligibility, I plan to make Kiev my future summer home.

... in response to Have to Agree, posted by DE on Oct 16, 2001

How much would an apartment cost in Kiev?

... in response to Kiev Apartment, posted by KenMan on Oct 16, 2001

Hi Ken,

I don't mean to be facetious, but the real estate market in Kyiv is highly-variable. You can find an old nasty run-down and roach-infested apartment far away from the center of the city for in the tens of thousands of $$'s. Or you can find a modern (even new) freshly-renovated apartment in a nice area near Kreschatyk and the costs can be in the couple of hundred thousand range. And everything in between.

It all depends on what you want.

- Dan

... in response to Trip report and hello....., posted by Mark H on Oct 16, 2001

I always love to read trip reports about Kiev.  I felt the exact same way you do when I got back from my 10 days last June.  Kiev is a great city, with real good people.  I cannot wait until next spring, when I go back.  This time like you I am going to alone and not making plans to meet anyone.  I will stay in the apartment I had last year as I made great friend with the landlord.  I will also go to Lugansk and stay with this girl that I wrote for a year but didn’t really hit it off but her family and I got along great.  (Guess all that money I sent for the family was worth something).  So I will stay with them all again.  All I am going to do is get addresses and contacts from dating agencies and just go there as a plan B but for the most part I am going to clubs and meets women on the streets through friends etc.  

I am interested to learn about your experience meeting women on the streets, clubs as I feel for younger people searching this is probably going to be the best way to avoid scammers and all the other crap and better off in the long run.  For older people I don’t think they have many choices they need to do the Internet, socials and the like.  Same as if they were looking for women in the U.S.A. (My opinion)

Please write more about the people you met.  What did you all do etc.

... in response to Re: Trip report and hello....., posted by Ryan on Oct 16, 2001

fda

... in response to Re: Trip report and hello....., posted by Ryan on Oct 16, 2001

For older people I don’t think they have many choices they need to do the Internet, socials and the like. Same as if they were looking for women in the U.S.A. (My opinion)

Please explain your thoughts. I am interested to hear what you have to say. And - your age?

... in response to question, posted by thesearch on Oct 16, 2001

I feel that older men searching for a nice Ukraine/Russian woman would be better finding them on the net as not many nice older Ukraine/Russian women are at clubs and night spots etc.  I also believe in sticking close to your age range if your 50 going after 30-year-old women from any country your asking for trouble. (My opinion)  You would be better at socials and meeting someone that is close to your age, and don’t go looking for arm candy either, stay within your means.  You would also do well meeting other Russian women threw Russian friends that you meet.  You could find Russian male friends close to your age and find out what they do.  You wanted my opinion……

... in response to Re: question, posted by Ryan on Oct 16, 2001

asd

... in response to Re: question, posted by Ryan on Oct 16, 2001

I do not think that meeting girls at nightclubs is a good idea. Party girls do not usually make good wives.

Katya

... in response to Re: Re: question, posted by Katya on Oct 16, 2001

Katya,
I have to disagree with your post. There are party girls who go to discos and party girls who don't go to discos. If someone has some sense of street abilities, they can spot a party chick in line at McDonalds. I've met many women who love to dance and enjoy music. Just being in a disco does not constitute sleazyness or easy. You will find trash in a disco, you'll find trash in a church. You'll find trash anywhere if you look for it. Know what trash looks like and don't pick it up! SMile. Personally, I love to dance and enjoy nights out in pubs and drinking until wee hours of the morning. Not all the time but I do like it. I'm by no means the type of guy who sleeps around or is a party guy. SOmetimes it's just fun. Best to you.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: question, posted by Mark H on Oct 17, 2001

I would agree with you completely Mark - for Western women. It is more part of your culture that to enjoy yourself - you often go out. Russian culture is more family & home orientated. We also like to have fun, but in a different way. Life in Russia is a series of celebrations - but at each other's homes. Sometimes, we could have 3 or 4 celebrations each week! It could be someone's birthday - or anything. As you probably know, Russian's love to find an excuse for a celebration. Going to night clubs etc, is not part of our culture. This would be girls who are living a good life, or maybe want to try to meet any western or rich man as quickly as possible.

Regards
Katya

... in response to Re: Re: question, posted by Katya on Oct 16, 2001

Katya that is true even for American woman.  Good point Katya, you always make sense.

Robert D.

... in response to Trip report and hello....., posted by Mark H on Oct 16, 2001

Hey Mark,

Just a question. How many times did you say after a trip that you would not go to meet just one lady again. :)))

I think I know the answer but just want if from the horse's mouth.

So, other than all the beautiful women you saw walking around, what about the one you went to see, what happened?

Also, as far as trying to meet a lady on the street, was it just a plan for next time or did you get some  hands on experience this trip?

... in response to Can I raise my hand for a question?, posted by thesearch on Oct 16, 2001

I can answer your question. Yes, I always seem to say that I won't go and see one girl but end up doing it. This is why. I was going to go on Jack's trip but the social thing is not my gig. I met a girl online and she was quite fascinating. It began to be an everyday, 2 or 3 email type of thing for a few months. I decided to go and see her as friends. If there was more to it, great. If not, great also. She felt the same way. We had chemistry, her more so than me. It was a wonderful trip and a great time. We did just about everything you could do in Kiev for 9 days. I loved the ballet, Swan Lake and the opera house was awesome. Unfortunately, while I was there her favorite Aunt succumed to breast cancer and passed away. I was left alone for 2 afternoons while my friend was at family (funeral) things. I ventured down into Kreshatyk St. by myself on two afternoons. I met 3 girls on these ventures. One in McDonalds, one in the shopping center, and one sitting in the irish Pub near the metro. They each spoke half-arse english but enough to engage in conversation. They were curious as to if I was american. It is not simply walking up to a girl and saying "hi, I'm mark...wanna talk?". That's assinine. You wouldn't do that here either. It's a time game. You're sitting at a table, eating or drinking and you give glances and the girls giggle like crazy. After some time of this type of innocent interaction I approached all three of them and said hi. They were embarrassed but by no means thought I was after sex, or thought they were hookers. I suppose your own tact will come into play. We talked for 1/2 hour or so and then I had to go. I didn't want to engage too much, just wanted to feel their "approachability". ANd they ARE approachable. Don't be a dork and you'll be fine. Yes, I was laying the groundwork for my next trip, probably in February. Of course I will hire a guide/translator to spend the time with. I think the best approach is to hang out, have a good time, enjoy your translator and the rest will come naturally. Why do you have to go to an agency? WHy do you have to write endless emails to vixens you know nothing about? Why do all of that? Just go and have a good time. See their cities and their culture. If you meet a great gal, excellent. If you don't, go again. It's that simple. Of course you have the options of going to agencies in country and actually SEE and MEET some girls. Get some dates, no problem.

Hope I answered your questions. Now I refuse to engage in email correspondence with any FSU women. I'm too easily captured to come and see one chick. We'd all like to find the perfect mate, engage in email correspondence, go see her, find that she is the "ONE", and live happily ever after. Not going to happen all the time. So, my new approach is what works for me. It fits my personality. I have no problems interacting with women I don't know. I have no problems being alone in a foreign country. I have no problems enjoying the country and culture...regardless of dating outcomes. The key is find what fits you. If it's socials, by god go on socials. If it's one on one...write many girls until you find one that knocks your socks off and get over and see her. Find your niche and go with it. I've found mine. Be cool.

Mark H.

... in response to Re: Can I raise my hand for a question?, posted by Mark H on Oct 17, 2001

more about your trip. Good luck with your next  trip.

... in response to Re: Can I raise my hand for a question?, posted by Mark H on Oct 17, 2001

I wish I would have used your words here that you wrote a long time ago to describe my situation.  Using Agencies or sending E-mails sucks me in too easy also.  What works for one person does not for another.  Sending money or not, so on and so on.  Everyone has there own ways.  I like yours and it also seems to fit me.  I am tired of paying the middleman.

... in response to Can I raise my hand for a question?, posted by thesearch on Oct 16, 2001

Some guys prefer to go over to meet one woman... I'm one of them.  However, with as much fw/aw experience as I've had, I know better than to depend on one single meet 100 percent.  (It's the 1 percent that'll sink your boat every time).  So, it's always a good thing to have some extra balls in the golf-bag if you top the ball on the tee, on a long lake shot.

You NEVER have to take the extra balls out and play them... then again, one should never let them know to expect, to be played.

God that makes me sound like a jerk axx womanizer.

But at least I'd put forth the effort to make something work.... I don't think I'd ever go, to just go... personal preference, familiarity breeds a certain comfort level.  (And suicide ain't painless).

Nothing wrong with the idea imo, just hope for the best, and be prepared for the worst.

mie tu sents.

... in response to Trip report and hello....., posted by Mark H on Oct 16, 2001

I'm glad you enjoyed your trip to Kiev. I hope that you were ok with our crazy drivers!  ;-)

If you can find time to visit Odessa, you will find the girls even more pretty!

... in response to Re: Trip report and hello....., posted by Katya on Oct 16, 2001

I like this lady's responses, party girls do not make good wives and most women would not necessarily speak English should you just approach them on the street. No matter how old you are? the ladies here I know would NEVER go to a social and the one's that did ,went once and said they felt like hookers. Never cared for Kiev much and think Odessa is a much better looking & friendlier city, but to each his own.

... in response to Re: Trip report and hello....., posted by Katya on Oct 16, 2001

Hi Katya,

From your perspective, would it be acceptable behavior for  an American man to simply walk up to a lady in Odessa and introduce himself to see if she is available and if she might be interested in him? How would this be viewed by most women in Odessa?

... in response to Question Katya, posted by thesearch on Oct 16, 2001

It is a good question. Do you think that she will understand you?  ;-)

I think that it would be very unusual for this to happen & the lady is most likely to think that either the man approaching her is drunk or maybe she will think that he is joking with her. It depends on the lady really, it's also possible that she may think that you just want sex.

Think what would happen in your home town.

In conclusion, I think that it's not a reliable way to meet your future wife.

Regards
Katya

... in response to Re: Question Katya, posted by Katya on Oct 16, 2001

a few guys have said that they see many lovely ladies in FSU and that they are thinking of just going over without plans and just meeting  whoever on the streets as the ladies are walking by.

In the USA I can do this with no problem but with a language barrier I do not think that I would do so well without an interpreter.