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How many people do you know in the USA that are 'truly' happy?
Now that Mongo has seen the light-without ever wondering into the darkness, I can only speak of my own experience. what happens to any of you is your experience. As I have said and will say again, my great great great cousins orville and wilbur were told the same things. "if you were meant to fly, God would have given you wings". Well I guess people like Mongo can blame them for the Sept. 11 travesty, because if they 'just' would have listend, we would not have had to experience such a painful ordeal. It is too bad that Mongo did not at least visit the FSU for teh mere experience. At least he could come back and give his personal assessment exempt from nonsensical rhetoric of 'I have seen the light' routine. I feel people like Mongo will never see the light because they are living in the shadows of fears and opinions of others. so good luck to the Mongo and Hockybrains alike. I hope you all find happiness-Hockybrain will at least left the cave and see for himself should he decide to come back/
Peace
Joe

... in response to I have only one question to ask......., posted by yoe on Oct 13, 2001

When I read Mogo's post to LP, I thought he was being sarcastic.  Though vocal tone, body language, and facial expressions don't come through too well over the Internet, from his style of writing that is what I picked up.

... in response to I think you may have missed his point..., posted by Bob S. on Oct 15, 2001

it is not quite clear how to take some things said. I know many of my posts are taken out of context. I tell of my life-folks think I am bragging. I say I am happy-I am gloating. I say my wife enjoys doing things for her husband-she is a slave. My biggest problem is that I do write in a very light hearted fashion and not all people understand that. If that was MOGO's intent, I opologize for my quick read and for calling him Mongo---------even though when I figured out what I had done-------I did get quite a laugh out of it.
Thanks'
Joe

... in response to I have only one question to ask......., posted by yoe on Oct 13, 2001

nt

... in response to Who is mongo ? /nt, posted by BarryM on Oct 14, 2001

Barry,
Mongo is the character on SNL that is half man and half monkey that humps everything in sight.  I think Joe meant to write "Mogo".  LOL
KenC

... in response to Re: Who is mongo ?, posted by KenC on Oct 14, 2001

I find my errors quite funny too. Maybe I just work on some subconcious, spiritual, level that makes my fingers put down what really relates........Mongo.....Mogo.....that is funny.
Joe
I hope you can appreciate this

... in response to I am glad I am not perfect......, posted by yoe on Oct 14, 2001

yer gushing - It's kinda cute heh..:P

... in response to I have only one question to ask......., posted by yoe on Oct 13, 2001

Ammen!

... in response to Re: Yuz right Yoe!, posted by Quasimoto on Oct 14, 2001

....He's got his head so far up his a** that he can't even make an intelligent statement. In fact, when has he ever? What's he even doing here? Seems for a guy who already has a piece of the action, he spends more time here than others in his situation. He spends all his time offering nothing but idiotic hyperbole, surpassing even the useless, boring, inane information that continually gushes from a certain regular here.

All he keeps mentioning over and over is how his wife cooks, cleans, gives him a clean shirt, makes the bed, etc, etc. Hey Yoe, we're all glad you found yourself a domestic slave but it's no wonder the trolls think the way they do. Sure doesn't say much about her now, does it? You both aren't helping the image any. I believe most of us are looking for something different. Besides, for all I know, your entire "experience" is a fabrication. It's not to hard to imagine, looking at your thought processes.

When are you going to learn that other people's experiences *do* relate? Your narrow viewpoint that "everyone's experiences are different" is nonsense. It's a classic example of "it won't happen to me, I'm different". Once again, it's the "all will be OK, just hope for the best" mindset, so prevalent here.

Yoe's reply to Dan shows how ignorant he really is. He only traveled briefly to the FSU. His "I never had those fears" comment is revealing. He never had those fears because he refused to accept they exist. A uneducated and foolhardy approach to a very risky endeavor. It shows he buried his head in the sand by refusing to *accept* the dangers. It's also a clear indication as to how desperate he really was.

So maybe he got lucky *this time* (he thinks so, but time will tell), but it's no way to approach things that will have so drastic an effect on your life either way. (I suspect all the other things in his life he previously failed at were approached in the same manner.)

It all boils down to reward vrs consequences. Risk management is the only way to approach dangerous business, and that means looking at what happens to others and what they did or didn't do to manage the risks. It *doesn't* mean that you place all your hopes in two individuals (you and her), on the belief the two of you are "different" than the rest who came before you and failed. The truth is, you really aren't. To ignore those who have gone before you, to assume their failures were 100 percent the fault of their own personalities or circumstances is just plain stupid and ignores much of the equation.

Some of us accept risk without reservation (not too smart), some refuse to accept any risk at all. (Also not smart.) Some, like Yoe, are simply too dense to see risk at all. Take skydiving as an example. There are those who would never do it, in spite of the safety record and data that suggests it's very safe if the risks are managed. These folks are ignorant (by definition, they simply don't know any better), so they're simply acting out of fear in refusing to participate.

Those that do participate try to learn from the mistakes of others to stay alive. If the odds were very poor of surviving, based on the experiences of others, one would not need jump even one time to "see the light". One would simply decide the risk is not worth the *consequences* (not the reward) and move on. And saying that preventing the failure automaticaly prevents the consequence is *real* wishful thinking.

This endeavor is *far* more risky than skydiving. Not from getting killed (although it's a possibility), but from what the *losses* will be if it fails. In the end, you have *NO* control over what your mate will do, no matter how nice you are, no matter how much you want it to work. At least in skydiving it's only you and the chute *you* packed.

Stop thinking of whether it will fail or not, THATS NOT THE ISSUE. Start thinking about the consequences if it does. Maybe Mongo has much to lose, maybe he's not so poor, insecure, desperate or lonely enough to decide to roll the dice in a crap shoot with those consequences, *not* with the odds of failure. Maybe he sees not only the number of failures (which I suspect are far greater than those reported here and on other boards because most men would choose to remain quiet), but the long lasting hellish consequences caused by those failures. Besides, maybe Mongo's consequences would be greater than Yoe's. I doubt Yoe has much to lose and he obviously doesn't consider it, so why should he consider anyone elses?. I know my case would certainly be different.

Geez, are some of you so hapless that you simply *must* have someone, *anyone*, in light of these risks? Has the 'ole life really gotten *that* bad? If so, a wife won't solve those issues.

Wise up: Every one who gets into this does not expect it to fail. Every couple married on this day thinks they will endure. Why? Because they put too much emphasis on themselves as individuals and not enough on the simple fact that people are the same everywhere and that people change with time. Never forget the old axiom: "You're a true individual.....just like everyone else"

The facts are this: Only those desperate enough accept bad odds. Not only odds of failure, which is bad enough in this game, but the price to be paid for that failure. And don't plead your case about the "rewards", they are way out of proportion to the risks, considering that there are *plenty* of good A/W left right here at home. (Assuming you've got what it takes to find one.) And stop blaming them, most of you played your part in past failures and anyone who thinks A/W are all that bad and R/U/W are so much better is as clueless as one could get.

The risk equation would be quite different if these women were the last girls on Earth (it seems they *are* for some of you, that's the problem) or if they were "superior" in some way. (Which they aren't, open your eyes.)

It simply comes down to what you *think* the rewards will be and this certainly seems to blind some men to the risks. If you're a poor sap living in the woods and haven't much to lose, then OK. If your a successful guy with many assets and don't need the grief, you had better look at others and not only at yourself because I got news for you: You aren't in total control of the situation and never will be. Remember this: Until you get her here and have at it for some time, the rewards are an unknown. The consequences of failure are a sure thing. Better do it right, with *much* more caution than picking one at home.

On the other hand, the failure to look inward seems to be a serious problem for many of the men involved in this game. Nuff said.

So it's got nothing to do with "seeing the light" or "leaving the darkness". It's got to do with intelligence and looking at those around you because you aren't any different than they are in most respects. Better look carefully at the past failures in your lives and what you did or didn't do to manage the risks at that time. After all, if you do what you've always done, you'll alway get the same results. Learn a new way of thinking or you're doomed to repeat your misery. After all, it's how most of you ended up here.

Stop listening to morons who have no history of success in the past, clown Yoe wouldn't be where he is today if he had any insights worth spouting. And if you seriously think he's somewhere you want to be, you've got deeper problems than *any* wife will solve.

Lastly, for those who will say the risks are identical with an A/W, thats nonsense. Why add to it with culture, lanquage, scammers, etc? I'll tell you why. It's because you've all convinced yourselves that these women want you first, that they are special in some way. Well, most want that visa first and foremost, plain and simple, and I have endless evidence of that from the horse's mouths. Maybe not, but the odds are that your's is one of them.

The funny thing to me is that, deep in your hearts, you all know it but simply shrug it off.

I say again: It isn't about the odds of failure, it's about consequences. And it's about taking unneeded risks based on whats available to you *without* taking those extra risks. I'm not saying don't get involved, I'm saying 75% of those who do are clueless and self deluded, don't be one of them.

Maybe it's because I manage risk for a living. Maybe it's because I've endless training in managing risk and that hundreds of lives depend on the successful outcome of how well I do it, but I just can't see doing things Yoe's way. Consequence vrs reward, plain and simple.

Good luck to you Mongo, you're a smart man. The R/W "fad" all these guys are into will soon fade for you and when you look back you'll laugh at how clouded your thinking was. BTW, you're right about me, I'm gonna quit, in spite of having found two great girls over there. I believe they would've been fine, but why take the chance when I don't *have* to?

That seems to be the issue, no matter what many of these guys say, most of them *do* have to, and they know it. Me, I decided to get one localy, a beautiful young thing from another country, already living here. No muss, no fuss, easy to do. A bird in the hand....

BTW, my friend was gonna do the other guy in and he would've suffered the consequences just like the last guy near here whos Ukrainian bride started cheating on him with a local R/M. As soon as she got here she started and everyone said he was the nicest guy around who went through hell trying to please her. He's dead now, shot by the police after she pushed him too far. He screwed up, because he should've put a couple into her first.
But hey, this could *never* happen to any of you though, right?

Whats that you say? A/W do this too? Sure, but you think the effect on you will be the same, considering travel, time, money, visa, etc? The A/W was already here, the R/W used you in ways the A/W never could. Trust me, you've never been screwed until you've been screwed by a R/W.

There's some pretty sad folks hangin round here these days, it's gotten worse over the last month. Most of the intelligent people have disappeared and we're left with a bunch of misfits, like Yoe, stroking each other in an endless cycle of self delusion. It's no wonder this board has become the laughing stock of others.

BTW Yoe, if you weren't such a space cadet, you would know that *my* world *does* revolve around me, just like your's revolves around you. I frankly could care less about whether the rest of the world revolves around me or not. And yeah, I feel *much* better, at least I can rant with the best of 'em.

Frankly, I've never seen so brainwashed a group, a real cult mentality.
Kee-rist, next it'll be poisoned cool-aid or waiting for the Mother Ship
to arrive.

... in response to No, he's as wrong as he could be...., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

I'd be interested in checking them out.

... in response to On which boards has this one become a la..., posted by Richardd on Oct 15, 2001

n.t

... in response to No, he's as wrong as he could be...., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

have already lost.

"Risk management" communicates distrust.  Your lady will know that the extent to which you trust her is an excellent measure of how much she can trust you.

... in response to No, he's as wrong as he could be...., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

....I do not agree with all you have written,  but thanks for shaking the tree...you have some very good seeds of wisdom included in your post.  As well as some very good other points from Ken C.  I think some guys have,  do,  and will get their clocks cleaned by some of the RW's.  It like they are begging for it.  Too bad.  If you are so stupid....you can loose alot.  Another thing...my personal opinion is that...STEP BACK FROM YOUR COMPUTER...much of this RW stuff is an illusion which all you guys ( thousands and thousands worldwide  ) keep perpetuating all this by "typing at them".  If you look at some photo and you want to marry her...man...you deserve what you get.  Seriously,  if you want a Russian girlfriend or wife---get away from the computer.  Learn the language and culture a little and go there.  Forget all the emails and letters and buying addresses and just go there.  You know,  at work I have a kid from Riga and he laughs so hard at all these guys writting to FSU girls...he thinks they would do much better if they just went over with some basic language skills and there are plently of nice girls to meet.  Well,  like Ken C said...if you have some social skills.  If you can't keep it interesting with a beautiful AW--forget it...'cuz the beautiful RW will eat you up.  Or if you are lucky...she just won't be interested.  Now maybe LP you are not in a good mood---but you still have some very valid points.  Best t'y'all,  Tim

... in response to No, he's as wrong as he could be...., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

and flattered that such a brilliant 'life scholar' as yourself would take so much time and effort to write a short thesis on the thoughts and life of Yoe. Thanks
By the way it is all horseshyt but flattering just the same.
Let me reduce my intellect to your level and try my logic 101.
lp is not married to  RW
lp has never been married to a RW
lp knows nothing 'personally- in 'his' world about being married to a RW
Coclusion-that is why I am here SPORT-I do know. So how do ya like me now.
ps. I never said 'your' work my sunjective friend who sees only what he wants, I said THE world-----
Joe
thanks again in proving my points

... in response to Wow, I am impressed......., posted by yoe on Oct 14, 2001

...your wrong about many things. I "personally" don't know anything about being married to a R/W? Once again, you're talking outta your a**.

Yes, I don't have a little piece of paper saying I'm in the cross hairs of one of these girls, that she is free to rape me when she decides the time has come, and there is a *danm* good reason for that. And if I did, I wouldn't be bragging about it. I've forgotten more about R/W, shiit, *all* women, than you will ever know.

I bet I have much more experience in dealing with these chix than you have, as you have lived with only the one. I've lived with many, accumulating a fair amount of total time, in a setting identical to being married. Your experience is limited by dint of a single one over time and, as far as I can tell, she isn't even representative of the breed. You're not here because you "know" anything and if you did, why don't we ever see it? You know crap, about most things, and it's very obvious to anyone with an ounce of brains. I'm the one who knows, it's why *I'm* here.

Try reducing your intellect to my level some more and you'll see that you're just another zero, a guy who has spent his life thus far screwing up one thing after another. The folks here mostly laugh at your "intellect", like most class clowns you haven't a clue as to how stupid you constanly make yourself out to be.

As far as "my" world, you can't even read properly, let alone type a reply with any degree of coherency. Read it again, Sport.

Having said that, I still find my behaviour disturbing, but at least I have an excuse. Whats your's?

As far as I'm concerned, you still suck in the Homo Sapiens department, assuming one can even connect you to that genus.

... in response to No, he's as wrong as he could be...., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

LP has written a very thoughful post; he has many valid points which every one here must consider.

I have my RW here for six months; not a long time but six very pleasant months. Even if it ended tomorrow I would be a better man for it.
In my trips to FSU, I made friends with several women; only one I married; some I still correspond with sporadically.

Knowing the risks are very important; and they are far more with RW than with AW. Nonetheless you can limit your risks with a properly drawn pre-nuptial agreement. I know this has been debated ad infinitum here in the past and some people disagree; but I believe a well written pre-nuptial agreement can limit your financial losses.

Some people claim that RW cook and clean, some others claim that they like sex. I can assure you only one of those statements is correct.
RW may not be superior to AW; rather there are added problems of language, culture etc. Nonetheless they truly enjoy some activities much more so than AW; that is the consensus of opinion of men who have known RW.

Mark

... in response to No, he's as wrong as he could be...., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

...OK, I having a real bad month. I guess I lost it there,
I'm a little stressed lately.

My apologies, sorry about that.

... in response to Ahhh....about this post.., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

LP

I do not know who Yoe is or if you are right about him however he is either very right for his situation and very lucky or he is in La La Land.

But his posts do suggest that he is clueless about what else happens in the real world or simply does not want to think that it exists. Now maybe he is so intuitive that everything he does works out? If so kudo's to him. However he should not assume that his path will be others and to suggest to not worry is like leading sheep to the slaughter.

I think this is one of your best posts ever. I have saved it to hard disk, and will post it periodically here. Oh Yoe, I will remove all remarks about you as they will become irrelevant however the meat of LP's post is a very important wake up call just to get others to think if that will allow themselves to do so.

Some AM are so lost that the truth could hit them in the forehead with a two by four effect and they would not get it. If they do not proceed wisely that RW will let them know what it is about and they will be in the hospital to have some sutures to close that gaping wound in their forehead. And guess what there is not medical insurance to cover this expense.

... in response to Contrary, one of your best, posted by thesearch on Oct 14, 2001


Reality check is good for the soul.

... in response to Ahhh....about this post.., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

LP,
You need not apologize for your post.  You make some very valid points.  I cannot imagine the stress and emotional turmoil you must be involved with.  I sincerely hope things go better for you.

As for your take on desperate men, I have to agree.  One of the biggest problem areas in finding a mate in the FSU is that there are a large number of desperate AM (desperately seeking a woman's love) contacting a large number of desperate RW (desperate to get out of the FSU countries).  What even tips the scale more out of whack is that a large amount of the AM have little or no dating skills and a large amount of the RW are very savvy in this area.  In some ways it is like leading lambs to the slaughter.

If you combine the above factors with the almost unavoidable "rush factor," you have the makings of a real disaster.  The "rush factor" in my mind, is not taking the time to really know your mate before jumping into a marriage.  The mere fact that a significant number of men are looking for a wife, instead of a girlfriend is proof that most are putting the cart before the horse.  Marriage might be the end goal, but you shouldn't skip all the steps that lead up to that point in a relationship.  How many guys or girls would go on a first date with another American thinking about marriage?  Almost none.  Marrying someone that you have only spent a week with IS completely irrational.

Please note that I have qualified my statements to not include "all."  I feel that the odds can be beat.  A man that has success with women in America will have a better chance of being successful in the FSU than a man that has had limited successes here.  The "rush factor" is more difficult to avoid because of the logistics and the visa system.  Basically you have inexperienced men rushing into marriage with experienced women (that may have a different agenda).  THAT is what leads to disaster.
KenC

... in response to Re: Ahhh....about this post.., posted by KenC on Oct 14, 2001

Hi Ken,
    Yup.  Except I can hardly call marriage the end goal.  It is just the beginning of a new reality and that is when the work really begins.  Best,  Tim

... in response to Re: Re: Ahhh....about this post.., posted by tim360z on Oct 14, 2001

n/t

... in response to Re: Ahhh....about this post.., posted by KenC on Oct 14, 2001

...We don't always agree, but your kindness is appreciated.

... in response to Re: Ahhh....about this post.., posted by KenC on Oct 14, 2001

I bet your wife just loves you to death. These are definitely words of wisdom. But, there are people here who do marry in the first month(AW and AM). It is not uncommon. It is in our nature(youthful nature). Many people do not get this until later in life. So they can be preached to all day long-it is just not going to happen. As far as inexperienced men-well what are their choices KEN. Are you going to tell a man who has not and may not for 10 or 20 years haad a decent relationship 'not to go'. Which is worse. To remain unahappy or take a chance. And Yes I do know of a few men that have been alone for over 10 years after bad marriages or relationships. I say fucc it GO FOR IT. You have got much slack from your situation-not as much as many-but what if you had listend? what then. Obviously you will claim to be the exception. Maybe not. Anyway, caution and prudence is always a good idea-just sometimes life does not allow for this. As the old saying goes, "Life is Short".
Joe

... in response to Always such a gentle touch......., posted by yoe on Oct 14, 2001

....you can loose alot.  " Take my arms,  take my legs,  Oh!Babe,  just don't take my head".

... in response to Always such a gentle touch......., posted by yoe on Oct 14, 2001

Yoe,

When I posted about protecting one's self  via certain strategies such as pre nuptials, not mixing funds etc whoa was I hit with responses from those that  thought this was ridiculous and that I did not care about these ladies.

There are definitely people here with their head in the sand wanting to totally ignore the reality of this endeavor and our inability to control the outcome. There are those here who actually feel that it is saintly to place themselves on the alter saying sacrifice me if you will my RW beauty because I love you.

These things (protection) can be done tastefully to benefit both parties in the advent that things do not work out either because of the choice of the man or the woman.

For example, if after a year you do not think that it is working out, you have a lady that has given up everything to come and be with you. You can't just ship her back. She needs financial support to get her life back. And, it is up to you to do this for her if she does not have the means.

Additionally, if she decides that it is not working for her, it is not your responsibility to support her, her children  and her next boyfriend for up to ten years.

However, the legal system in the USA does not want you bringing these ladies over and they can and do make you do this to punish you. Our government in cases is even ignoring the requirement that they go back if they leave you before two years. And, they stick you with the bill. Our country is not on our sides here. They side with the women.

Your only way to improve your odds of this not being the case is preparation. This is no more crazy then having insurance for various reasons. We do not get life  or car insurance because we are negative and think that something is going to happen. We do it because it is common sense.

How come with love people loose this common sense and refuse to listen? They even ignore the stories of those that were as foolish and now are looking at years of punishment for their mistake. Years of punishment that will only help to rob them of future happiness with a loving woman that is to come. They refuse to look at the divorce rate or if they do -it can not happen to me or RW are different.

... in response to Always such a gentle touch......., posted by yoe on Oct 14, 2001

Joe,
What would I suggest to the inexperienced man?  Get some experience!!!  Date AW any way you can.  Work on your dating skills and woman skills.  Read everything you can and learn.  I have met some guys that went to Russia and quite frankly they were waaaaaay out of their leauge with the RW they were with.  Kind of like a little leager batting against a fastball pitcher in the World Series.  I am not talking about "inner beauty" here, just the realities of the situation.  When you say "fucc it", you may be speaking of someone's future life as he knows it.
KenC

... in response to Re: Ahhh....about this post.., posted by KenC on Oct 14, 2001

Some wise statements by Ken; why don't more people here listen to him?

If you consider finding a lifetime mate based upon few brief meetings, you are delusional; and bound to fail like most AM who get involved with before us.

If you take this as an experience, that you would enjoy it for as long as it lasts... you will come out much better.

You want to look for a lifetime mate? Look into your own backyard. If you can't find it there, you are not going to find it in FSU.

Mark

... in response to Ahhh....about this post.., posted by LP on Oct 14, 2001

for one thing I can apreciate your intellect and life experience-though I do not expect the same. that is OK. I dish it out and I can take it-belive me. But, you are old enough to know that there are many ways to salvation-unless you are a fanatic-then it is only YOUR way. I do not think this is the case. I think you are just the average Macho Joe, that lives a very disciplined life-I have not. The older I get the less spontaneous I get. But, my life is good-VERY GOOD in respect to others. And, this is not about money.
As far as my my doing all of these things for me......YES it is true, but I do much for her------we do not make demand on each other-----well she does.
Today-I made breakfast, she made the bed. We will leave in 20 minute to go clean an office for HER cleaning company-I will vaccuum. Her birthday is coming up and I am buying her a new SUV. Is she a slave........hahahahyahahahahahahaha
I do not think so.
I never never never never said it was easy-I just said it was worth it.
So take it for what it is, but you can trust that your buddy Joe has no intention of giving false information, misleading or hurting anyone-even Ole LP.
So again good luck in what "you are looking for" whatever that may be.
Joe

... in response to LP.......on a serious note......., posted by yoe on Oct 14, 2001

After being attacked so greatly, I am impressed with this response of neutrality Yoe. However, I am glad that your post triggered LP's post as maybe you do not need it (I mean how would I know) but others do.