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Ok, did my christmas shopping today and picked up all the gifts for everyone.

Her father - fishing rod
Her mother - purse
Her brothers and sister - each a bottle of cologne/perfume
Misc family members that may show up at holidays - Canadian chocolate

Now here's the problem.  I am having a hard tiome doing the shopping for her.  Here is what I have got so far.

- Stuffed polar bear (my nick name)
- Snow Globe (she had when she was a child and it broke and she could never find another one for the past 15 years)
-Perfume & lotion combo

Here's my problem.  I have also bought an engagement ring, and if everything feels the same as the first time I spent with her, I am planning on proposing.  Now the engagement ring is not part of the christmas gifts, so I am missing the jewellry or jewellery alternative for her christmas gifts.  

I could use some suggestions for a jewellery alternative, since its not safe for people to wear jewellery in Colombia.  I have come up with a few suggestions below, but am looking for better suggestions.  Keep in mind a small budget of about $250 - $400.

I was thinking:
IPOD
Portable DVD player
digital camera
A coin collection starter book (she's into coin collecting)

What do you all think?  Any different ideas?

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

So I made the decision.  I am giving her a digital picture frame that stores up to 10 pictures.  I will load it with pictures of us as well as pictures that I took of her family, this way she has a nice variety of pictures and not just of me.

Thanks for the suggestions, for those of you that made suggestions.

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

I know you are walking on clouds now, but I suggest just taking the little and simple items like perfume, stuffed animals and chocolate instead of the electronics. I assure you if she really feels something for you, these would be more than enough. Hold onto the ring, you wouldn't become engaged to anybody here on the second date. She could be a wonderful lady but you won't know that when you are on vacation just visiting for a few days.

Big detail: If you give her the Ipod or the digital camera, she would also need a decent computer.

Coin collection book is a great idea. It's summer there also, maybe a shirt or blouse.

Give her the simple presents and see her reactions. Take your time. Let her to take her time.

Anyway it doesn't matter what you take to them, they will still see you as the gringo Santa Claus.

You are right:
De= from you.
Para= for her

... in response to Papa Noel, posted by Georgina on Dec 5, 2005

Georgina,

Tu paisana wants to see recent photos of your baby if possible. Hope you are all doing well and hope you have a Merry Christmas.

Dave and Carmen

... in response to Re: Papa Noel---Carmen wants photos plea..., posted by Red Clay on Dec 5, 2005

Hi,

Hope you two are doing great. I'll email you a couple of pictures soon. He is not a baby anymore. He is almost 4 years now. He speaks Spanish fairly and is learning to swim.

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]

I think that while your intentions are good, you're making a HUGE mistake arriving at XMAS as if you're Santa Clause, a giant bag of gifts in hand.  Forget about IPODs, digital camera's and all the other extravagent gifts you're thinking of arriving with. Not to be rude but this is truly stupid and foolheardy IMO. Think about giving her (not EVERY member of the family) a small gift but one from the heart. Also forget the ring, don't take it, use this time over XMAS to get to know her and nothing more. I don't know you and MAYBE you can spot a keeper after only spending a week with her but if you can, you'd certainly be in a small minority & what you've told us so far doesn't give me encouragement.  Wisen up, take back your credit card(s), don't play the rich Canadian with all the gifts for the family and just spend time with her.  Don't comeback engaged, use the five weeks to really get to know her.  If you decide to propose after the first week as you're thinking, the remaing four will be a waste IMO.  You have five weeks to get to know her better, take the pressure off yourself by committing yourself not to committing yourself.  You need time to really see a person as they truly are (and she needs time to see you), use the time you have, don't throw it away.....

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Cali James on Dec 5, 2005

I respect what you said, but to each his own.  I feel I am doing what I would do in any given relationship.  I am not acting like the rich Canadian, but I really enjoy giving gifts at Christmas time.  I have always done this and always will.  I'm not doing this to impress her or to try and buy her, like many of you are thinking or have done before.  It is just who I am.

As for me getting engaged, I am going to do it when it feels right.  If its the first week, the last day or never, it will only happen if it feels right.  I don't think getting engaged in the beginning of my trip is a waste.  If anything its benefiacial to both of us by seeing and acting like husband/wife for a period of time and not having the 'just started dating feel'.

But thanks again for your opinions, but if you have any opinions on what I should give her as the main gift in lieu of jewelery, this is the opinion I am seeking and would appreciate.

Thanks.

... in response to Re: Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

What a situation this is, where such obvious wisdom as CJ's must even be enunciated and of course duly ignored. I'm reminded of Thomas Edison's retort when he was asked what advice he would give young people: "Young people don't listen to advice." I held back from commenting on this until my third ale, but I have to question the wisdom of someone who would post in a public forum, and include pictures of most of the involved parties, about his attempts to bed another woman in between the first and second dates with the woman who minutes later (it seems) became his fiancée. Now he really enjoys giving gifts at Christmas time, but overlooks that he will be spending it in a completely different culture this time with people he barely knows.

... in response to Sigh..., posted by Bueller on Dec 5, 2005

I always enjoy your posts, Bueller.  I too, question a lot of things in his approach to this, but posts like this keep the board entertaining.

... in response to Sigh..., posted by Bueller on Dec 5, 2005

Dear Ferris you have more patience than I.

The Hooker

... in response to Re: Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]

"If anything its beneficial to both of us by seeing and acting like husband/wife for a period of time and not having the 'just started dating feel'."

You've spent a week with this young lady right?  The reason you have the 'just started dating feel' is because in reality you just started dating!!!!  You can leap to the "we're getting married, live happily after feeling" but you take a big risk doing so.  Six months into your marriage, you may long for the 'dating feel'.   IMO you're not thinking clearly.  Consider stepping back and asking someone you trust and who is competent in mind, if your behavior seems normal to them.  

My experience is that a relationship changes after you're engaged, the focus changes from getting to know each other to preparing for your new life and all that encompasses including the wedding.  An engagement period is not the time to be testing the relationship, as it's much harder to step back from a relationship than it is to step forward.  

"I feel I am doing what I would do in any given relationship."

I truly think you're deluding yourself.  Would you buy an engagement  ring for a Canadian woman after spending a week with her on a vacation?  Would you then buy the Canadian woman's family gifts that exceed in value a whole months income for that family.  Would you give the Canadian woman your credit card also?

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Cali James on Dec 5, 2005

It seems magic I know,but make sure she loves you for YOU not what you represent in money and opportunities.Or you just might spend 1000 nights staring at the ceiling married to as woman that does not love you,you just made her too good of an opportunity to resist.Take it from somebody who has been there.They love you or they do not.Gratitude is the least durable of human emotions.If she does NOT love you but marries you she will grow to RESENT You for her selling herself out.Take it from somebody who HAS BEEN THERE.Take a YEAR to know her.You know JUST ABOUT  NOTHING so far.Back off on the money,that just OBSCURES if she cares at all about you.
The only other hope is to just get lucky.Don't count on it,you might just get the BIGGEST DISAPOINTMENT OF YOUR LIFE.
AND,loving her is not enough.I loved my wife.That just made it HARDER when she did not love me in return.CAN YOU IMMAGINE FOR A MINIUTE????
My novia now I dated for a YEAR before we moved in.I am totally sure of her.Don't play Russian roulette with your future.They are all sweet and pretty and affectionate.

Pete

... in response to Take your time,you are at step one of a ..., posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2005

I am not wishing anything bad on the guy, but he is happy and hopeful and will need to see for himself. If it does mess up, then I hope he doesn't stop posting, or blame her for tricking him as so often happens. Some things people have to learn for themselves, and although I hope this isn't one of those times, the likelihood (sorry, utopiacowboy) for bliss to happen this fast is just not there. Let him see for himself as that is the only way to truly learn.

... in response to Take your time,you are at step one of a ..., posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2005

.... told me so.  Until then, I'm going to be ffollowing what my heart is telling me to do.

Different strokes for different folks.  I'm not saying that you guys are wrong.  I agree with many of the points and its great advice for alot of people.  But I believe that what I am doing is right and the feelings I have are equally returned from her.

End of subject.

... in response to One day you can all say...., posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

83 posts in two months only to tell us that you are different,know what you are doing, and that if you are wrong we can tell you "I Told You So!" You are the manifestation of the horse when lead to water.  Why are you here, when all you do is defend an undefendable position.  What happened in your last marriage? Did her glass slipper fall off.

    You are determined to prove everyone wrong in a polite condecending fashion. Two of the most experienced board members who have been around here for over five years have only cautioned you and you choose to move blindly ahead. Whats the matter sonny don't you trust anyone over thirty.

    I for one am bored with your soap opera.  Like most who can't take good advice you live on constant drama and an inability to keep your mouth shut. I for one am not interested on which date you jumped her bones I think you got off more on telling the story than the act itself. So maybe you should try Zelda where you can play with others lives with out the trauma resulting from your mistakes.

Oh and I really am impressed that you are giving advice rather than taking it. Of course we are all failures in our previous relationships and have only carried that baggage into our new lives. Thats why you will be more sucessful than the rest of us. You really are a prince and this Fairy Tale will be more sucessfull than your last.   You really don't know that you don't know!!!

Don't bite the hook!!!  

The Grump from Cartagena

... in response to Re: One day you can all say...., posted by jim c on Dec 5, 2005

Ok, first let me tell you why I am here at this forum.  Is it to have arguments with people?  No.  I joined because I wanted an insight on using an agency ro meet women.  I got that.  I stayed a member and am an active member only because I believe that alot of people are looking at things wrong, and I would like to show other newbies that you don't need to overthink things.  I feel that the majority of people on here are bitter and have very seldom anything positive to say.  This can be very discouraging to people that may be here looking for an encouragement.  I want to encourage people not to give up, especially not before starting.  I believe that is the way all things in life should be taken, not just finding a latin wife.

I realize that there is a good chance that the information you are telling me is very true.  But I am choosing to ignore this.  I believe that what I am doing is what is best for me.  If I am wrong and this is an error, then I will know when that happens and learn from that error myself.  I have a feeling that many people have succeeded with simular steps that I have taken.  The only reason you don't hear about it is because they choose to no longer post here.

One more thing.  I gave a detailer report of my trip a couple weeks ago, because I thought it was a great piece of information for other newbies.  I did receive many thanks from many people about helping them, as well as much criticism from the old pros out there.  Before I went down, I would have loved reading a report like that so that I would know a little more of what to expect.  Maybe you're right and I should stop sharing information about myself and my times.  But, I thought that that is what this forum is for.  So maybe it is you that needs to make the choice of stopping to read it and replying to it if it bothers you that much.

... in response to Such emotion, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

Montrealer, there's a REASON the newbies are thanking you and the old pros are criticizing you.

Let me pause here while you think about what that reason might be...

"I realize that there is a good chance that the information you are telling me is very true. But I am choosing to ignore this. I believe that what I am doing is what is best for me. If I am wrong and this is an error, then I will know when that happens and learn from that error myself."

 Now these are the words of a true, archetypal fool. I have now copied your picture from your website and sent it to Merriam-Webster's for their 2007 edition. King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, mentioned young men like you many times in his book of Proverbs. Even if you're not religious, reading a chapter a day is not a bad habit, and its thirty-one chapter format lends it to such a discipline. A major theme of his, for whomever who has ears to hear, is: "The paradox about fools is, they're fools because they think they've got it all figured out and won't listen to those with more experience."

One drawback to the School of Hard Knocks is that the tuition is so damned expensive; it is much cheaper to attend the Institute of Hard Knocks Suffered By Others. When you say, "If I am wrong and this is an error, then I will know when that happens and learn from that error myself," you are correct in an obvious sense: yes, you sure will know. But how much money will you have spent at that point? How much time will you have wasted? How will it feel to have your heart broken again, compounded by the regret of knowing people tried to warn you? How many children will you have, whose lives will be permanently altered by the trauma of divorce? On that last point, this isn't just a matter of your life to do with as you please.

... in response to Such emotion, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

Actually Most of us bitter folks do our best to steer intelligent, stable people away from the fantasys like: I don't have to know her to marry her.She should love me because I am rich by her standards. Communication is not necessary its chemistry that is important. Colombian women are faithful and make better wives. I am a mess so I will go south and buy a wife. She will learn to love me. She should be thankful because I rescued her from poverty and gave her opportunties. These along with others are but easy excuses for insecure men who won't do the work to establish the trust and transparency necessary for a long term relationship.

I can accept that some guys  have no resources for advice and fall for these easy way out solutions to their loneliness. But we on this board have seen them come and go, exhibiting a total lack of respect to the women they are involved with,while talking on a public forum about their seductions. They are exhibiting their photos and generally breaking the trust of these women to gratify their miniscule egoes. Would you write on the internet how long it took you to seduce your Canadian wife and what would she do to you if she found out.When will posters realize they owe latinas the same respect that the women from their own culture demand.

   Don't tell me I am bitter and should not read the posts that are filed here. You can't even piss on the paper and will eventually be sent to the pound. If you want certification call an agency owner and he will agree with your insights. Meanwhile I think you are an immature young man with disaster constantly in your future. Of Course you are smarter than us old pros look where it has got you so far.

You are not even a keeper! The Cartagena Hooker

... in response to Re: One day you can all say...., posted by jim c on Dec 5, 2005

We got to get you laid.
When are you coming???

Pete

... in response to One day you can all say...., posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

You sound just like I did.I defended myself very well.Guys just gave up and said good look,which unfortunately I did not have.
But it WAS ALL IN MY HEAD,ALL MY FEELINGS,I DIDN'T KNOW HER AT ALL.

Pete

... in response to I wish the archives went back 6 years, posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2005

it's too bad that there not there.  But I need to make these decisions myself and theres not really any talking me out of it.  I have always been an intense person in my life, and the type that sees something and goes and gets it.  In general, this way of life has worked out very well for me, with very few failures.

... in response to I would have liked to read your stories,, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

I am  getting excited for you.I told that cave story defending myself,but I had a better real one.Seems like sometimes life is fate,we HAVE to follow it to see where it goes,we just can't resist.And sometimes its for our benefit,sometimes perhaps we are a tool for someone elses good.There is a very bright 14 year old kid who is living in California right now who has a very bright future.If I hadn't met his mother his life would be far different.For  someone who has been as fortunate as me it DOESN'T always have to turn out for MY benefit.
OK,I love this real story.
I had a car dealership,I used to sell European cars.One day I am standing out front and this old man is walking by.He decides to stop and talk to me.His wife had just died.They had been married 51 years.He met her at a rodeo in Montana in 1939.He was a bronc rider.He told her "I have ridden wild horses and wild women all over the west."She tells him we will see about this,He said I was broken in a day,he married her the second day he knew her.So it does not HAVE to take TIME.

Pete

... in response to Got to tell you another one, posted by Pete E on Dec 5, 2005

That's a great little story.  It just goes to show you that things are possible, no matter what the odds are.  I realize in theory that the odds are stacked heavily against us having a successful lasting relationship.  But if I have odds then I know I have a chance.  And the best thing is the odds are in my control.  I can make them better or worse, depending on what I want.

... in response to I would have liked to read your stories,, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]


Well if you won't take the time for yourself, please consider doing it for her.  Marriage is a two way street and she will need to be just as sure about you as you need to be of her.  The way to help her with her decision is to give her time to truly know you as you really are, not the person in her fantasy as you'll never live up to it. Credit cards and extravegent gifts will not help her make a decision.  It might give you a warm fuzzy but it truly does more harm than good.

... in response to I would have liked to read your stories,, posted by Cali James on Dec 5, 2005

Who she knows is who I am.  People around me know that I am one of the most giving people alive.  I am generous.  It's just who I am.  I'm even good to my ex-wife.  On top of child support, I even buy her gifts for Christams, birthday, etc.  That's the person I am, and I'm not trying to impress her.

... in response to Re: I would have liked to read your stor..., posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

Thats what I said.This is me.This is the real me,this what you are getting,I like to live the good life,so this is what you get if you hang with me.

Pete

... in response to Re: I would have liked to read your stor..., posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by Cali James]

If you think she knows you in a week then you're the least complex most transparent person that probably ever existed.  More than likely what she knows about you at this point is mostly things she's derived in her mind.  It's more a fantasy than anything at this point in a relationship.  Maybe when she discovers the real you, the reality won't fit the fantasy.  This happens in relationships, you meet a person you really like and admire, perhaps have chemistry with but over time you discover how really different the two of you are.  The things you thought were cute about your significant other become the things that possibly annoy you.  This happens all the time and it can be avoided with a little patience.

I'm sure you're a good guy but even good guys aren't a match for every woman.  Give her an oppurtunity to truly know you......slow down!

... in response to I would have liked to read your stories,, posted by Cali James on Dec 5, 2005

seems he not care about the woman is all about HIM  sad

... in response to Re: I would have liked to read your stor..., posted by gcman on Dec 5, 2005

Since when did we start talking 'caveman'.

Actually I care very much about the woman.  I did not express any feelings and sort of let her lead as far as sharing her emotions in the beginning.  I have usually done this because I can be a very intense person, and can sometimes come on too strong for some women.  So with women I actually like, and would like to like for more than one night, I usually let them lead the way or at least let me know where they stand, so there is no pressure on there side.

... in response to seems he not care about the woman is all..., posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

Howdy sir, I am all for going headlong and possibly creating a mess although if she does not realize how "Intense" you truely are you may want to clue her in on that to see how she reacts.  
I guess if your are going to move this rapidly, it would make sense to let her see all sides of you as soon as possible.

Buen Suerte
Fathertime

... in response to Re: seems he not care about the woman is..., posted by fathertime on Dec 5, 2005

Thanks for the advice FT.  She realizes that I am a very intense and soemtimes impatient man.  This is actually one of the attributes that she has said she is attracted to me for.  We're both on the same page about our plans and have discussed them quite a few times.

... in response to Re: Re: seems he not care about the woma..., posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

I do not know what the hell I am talking about but just judging as an outside observer I would say.  Look out man, not because of her but because of yourself.  I have learned a bit about myself from your posts since I have been of the mindset of going for it all quickly if the feeling is right BUT I have read your posts and see some error of MY ways through what you have written. Thank you for posting so much of what you have experienced.
You don't need to defend/explain yourself to everyones  posts but I would say continue reading some of the old pros words and keep them in your minds eye for later use. Some of what you're saying in your responses is raising a red  flag here and there. Why not consider this a trip to be engaged-to be engaged (To borrow from the movie Animal House). You sound like you got the means and the time to take another trip in a couple months and finalize things then assuming you still want to after deliberating on the issue.  Your little Latin Chica will still be waiting if you have her heart.  I find your story thought-provoking and am very curious to see how it turns out in the short and long run.  

For me, my approach is modifying into a multi-trip approach based partially on what you have written. It reminds me of how blinding infatuation is and my propensity to get weak-kneed for beauty. I have a lot to lose if I choose too unwisely and it sounds like you do as well.  

Time for a midnight snack, got to stay well rounded!
Buen Suerte
Fathertime

... in response to I would have liked to read your stories,, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

Hey,I am the same,totally impatient,if I want it I go for it.I would just say don't speed it up too fast.I proposed to my wife in 6 days,married her in 2 months.I even told guys if I see I am making a mistake I will not even take her to the states,I knew on my honeymoon very clearly she did not love me,but I spent 3.5 more years before I was ready to give up on her.
So I know there is no talking you out of it.Just watch for those little red flags.Hey I got 2 good friends whose stories make me look conservative in going for it.Its a VERY COMMON story here,and LUCK is a big factor.I have 5 friends in California it is working for.One guy married his wife the SECOND TIME he saw her,they are doing just fime right now.There were 2 divorces,mine being one,5 couples still together.You can get a wrong impression reading here,this board is largely guys who have failed at at least one Colombiana marriage.We don't hear from most of the other guys.So,sincerly,good luck.And I will add,for me it was alot more interesting than what I did the 3.5 years before that,which was largely nothing.
Life is a dynamic experience.Better to have loved and lost than do nothing!!!I had this little post card ,jokes by a guy named Ashligh Brilliant.It shows these 2 little eyes peering out of a cave.The caption is "if you are carefull enough nothing GOOD  or BAD will EVER happen to you."
Go for it,just try to keep the eyes a LITTLE open.

Pete

Pete

... in response to I would have liked to read your stories,, posted by Montrealer on Dec 5, 2005

[This message has been edited by soltero]

The thing you may not be receiving is that way of thinking is great and works PERSONALLY if it works at all. The minute you try to apply that to a situation that requires another person's input to be exactly the same, you are going to lose. The more you keep defending your position, the more it sounds like you are in over your head. Good luck though, I am not trying to change your mind. Whatever is going to happen good or bad will be a learning experience, and again, I wish you the best.

First timers never listen until after they have seen this stuff play out for themselves first hand. Utopiacowboy may chime in that that wasn't the case for him once again, but he is usually the only one. Maybe you can be the only guy to join him in all the time I have been on these forums.

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

Consider:

DVD player:  We are region 1; SA is region 4.  DVD's and DVD players purchased here aren't compatible with those marketed in SA.  Though, when I was in Peru, I did on occasion find vendors selling flicks coded for region 1.

iPod:  She'd have to have a decent, compatible computer, along with a few essential iPod accessories.  I just bought the Nano, but had to spend a couple hundred more getting a new USB 2.0 card for my comp., an external USB hub, portable power adapter, carrying cases, etc.  Each of these accessories/upgrades ranged between $30 to $40 a piece.  It's no longer as simple as buying a Walkman and batteries.  

I asked my female co-workers what they wanted for Christimas this year.  Most of them wanted perfume gift sets (360 Blue, Britney Spears, Escape, J'Adore), DVD/VHS combos., and VICTORIA SECRET!  They love that VS shiat.  Not necessarily the sexy undergarments, mind you; they wanted the body sprays/lotions.  Amazon.com sells a huge variety of that stuff.  And their product reviews help a lot.

Peace out!

... in response to Re: Christmas time questions, posted by doombug on Dec 5, 2005

Hmmm, DVD's formatted differently in SA. Maybe that's why the ones we bought there won't play properly in our DVD player here at home. Bought some that feature video of some of Peru's most popular/beautiful places, but can't watch 'em.

Thanks for the inadvertent tip. :)

... in response to Re: Re: Christmas time--doombug solves m..., posted by Red Clay on Dec 5, 2005

If you have a DVD Writer on your computer, pop them in there and set it for region 4 to play it (We are region 1 here, and most DVD burners can be set and changed at least 4 times). Then, you can use software that you can download for free from the internet to copy it onto a burnable DVD and while doing so, remove the region code.

... in response to Re: Christmas time questions, posted by doombug on Dec 5, 2005

n/t

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

how about a nice cell phone, the razr v3 is popular or the V600 both by motorola, make sure they are unlocked. if not then the digital camara, this way she can send you pictures. I would day no way to the ipod, this is still very new in colombia and not many people have one so chance are she'll get mugged as soon as she uses outside of here home.
JK

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

Hi
My wife says go with the IPOD and she wants to know what brand the perfume is (?)

You might want to load up the Ipod at least with some songs before you go that way she can show it off right away.
If you go with the portable DVD player I guess you would need to make sure it will play the CD-R knock offs (maybe they all do that???)

TE AMO PERU!!!!

jim and "JLO"

... in response to Re: Christmas time questions, posted by JimmySTLOUIS on Dec 4, 2005

I got her a CK Eternity box set.  As for the IPOD, I'm getting mixed reviews, but I know she loved mine.

Thanks JLO

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

try jewelry

... in response to Christmas time questions, posted by Montrealer on Dec 4, 2005

On the christams gift tag, which goes on top in Spanish?  For some reason I remember it being opposite to us.

De: Mi
Para: Ella