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Okay,
so I've been reading these posts and mostly just searching for key words, so this may be a repeat question that other newbies have asked, but too bad regardless.

I will be going to BAQ Colombia next month and have plans of meeting about 4 girls that I've been chatting with and possibly more that caught my eye when looking at profiles.

Questions about dating in BAQ:

When meeting the first dates, is it appropriate to give a kiss on the cheek? If so, is it both like in Montreal or one cheek like in Mexico? Or is a hand shake more appropriate for the greeting?
And then if the date went well, is it appropriate to get a real kiss good night?

Considering that these women know I plan to be there for only a short time (12 days), after which date is it appropriate to purpose a more intimate evening? This doesn't have to be sex, but could just be making out to heavy petting. All this granted there is a mutual intrest.

How do I tell a woman that I am interested in her, but I'm going to meet another girl later tonight, without sounding like scum?

After the date, do I walk her to her door, or is it safer, as I am the foreigner, that she drop me off at the hotel and go home alone?

At what point during the trip is it safe to bring up marriage talk, granted everything is going well? I don't plan to get engaged on my first trip, but maybe my second trip in January (2 months after 1st trip) and I would like to make sure that the woman is open to the idea and not afraid of commitment to a foreign relationship.

These are just some of the questions I have before I go down, but if anybody can make any other suggestions or comments that would be useful to me, it would be greatly appreciated. As I come from Montreal, which even though is Canadian, has more of a European way of life and dating and that may be too abrasive for the women of latin cultures.

Thanks for letting me know,
Chao

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

I have been reading this thread with amusment.

I was born in and grew up in Montreal.  My father, aunt, and cousins still live there.  Before I left Montreal in the mid 80's, Montreal women were generally NOT hot at all.  

The city was an amalgam of ethnic neighborhoods.  Poor French Canadians in Montreal East.  Poor Haitan immigrants also in Montreal East and Montreal North. Wealthy French Canadians on the east side of the mountain, Outremont.  Wealthy English Canadians on the west side of the mountain, Westmount.  The very wealthy of any language, race, or ethnicity on the south side of the mountain, the northern part of Downtown along Pine Ave.  The former Prime Minister Pierre Eliot Trudeau had a spectacular house in this neighborhood.  Jews in a western neighborhood, Cote-St.-Luc. English Blacks in Notre-Dame-de-Grace (NDG) and Cote-des-Neiges (CDN).  Middle income English Whites in Montreal West.  Poor English Whites in LaSalle and St. Laurent.  Greek, Armenian, Italian immigrants in Park Extension.  And middle income strivers of all races, languages and ethnicites moving to the North Shore (Laval) or the South Shore (St. Hubert).  

There were SOME hot women in each ethnic neighborhood, but generally women were NOT hot.  What gave Montreal a reputation for "hot" women, was the lively night life in which women were easily available.  I believe it is the "beer goggles" talking abot HOT Montreal women.  Crescent St. in the downtown, Old Montreal, St. Denis St. near University of Quebec, are very nice places to hang out and you will meet well dressed, well made up women at those locations.

Now, 20 years later, there has been a serious demographic shift.  A poor economy and poor politics have caused LOTS of young native Montrealers to leave.  The need for population has forced separatist/racist French Canadians to let in MANY immigrants from the Caribbean, Asia, and Latin America.  When I left, it was difficult to get ANY government service in any language other than French.  Now, service is available in French, English and Spanish.  The French language university, University of Montreal, now offers a tri-lingual MBA progan in English, French, and Spanish.  Young people are inter-mixing much more now than they did 25 years ago.  

The "hot" Montreal women that you guys are fawning other are really NOT from Montreal.  They are from Vietnam, Thailand, the Philipines, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Haiti, Cameroon, Senegal, Ivory Coast, Ukraine, Poland, etc.  And many are mixed with each other and with native Canadians.  They are only living in Montreal right now.

... in response to Re: First time...be gentle....need some ..., posted by Brazilophile on Oct 20, 2005

I was wondering about that. I used to travel there for swimming tournaments and did not recall that the women were all that hot in my mind. But there were always the buff ones at the pool to catch my eye. Night life was fun. Not to mention that 4 feet of snow on the ground can be a welcome change for someone living in Houston. At least I did not have to shovel it from my driveway every morning.

Thanks for the info.

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

Ok, after reading the replies to my post I have mixed view of what I should do about the dropping off first.

And as for the rest of my concerns, I was speaking of hypothetical situations where everything goes as planned.  I am aware that I may not meet the perfect woman for me right away, although I am hopeful.

As for the advice I was seeking, it was more of a cultural thing.  For example, in Montreal, at my age, 27, it is not uncommon for me to start dating someone and sleeping with them by the first or second date.  However I was married to a Mexican (non-agency, met in college) where it took me about a month of "friendship" before I even got a kiss on the lips.  I was hoping to find out whether this is something to expect as a formality?

As for someones comment about me just going to look for sex, you could not be more dead wrong.  I have never had a problem getting laid, and I never will.  But this "gift" is not a virtue because I am looking for a wife and not a bed partner du jour.  I am looking for someone to share my life with.  I am old-fashioned romantic type of guy, but unfortunately, women in Montreal, as I'm sure the rest of North America, are not adept to being treated with romance, so they don't know how to respond.

So, if anybody does have some real advice as to local Colombian customs, I would be more than happy to hear it.  If anybody wants to tell me that I should give up or not hope for the best, then keep it to yourself and let me be the optimist that I am.

Chao,
Joel

And by the way, I am fluent in spanish.  Someone mentioned it, but I forgot who.

... in response to Re: First time...be gentle....need some ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

a colombian who reads these forums once wrote me that that some guys on the forums may think they know everything but they dont. That hit home. Much of the advice is good but do what works best for you.  27 and speak spanish and you should have lots of options in Colombia. I just dont understand why you would not try harder in Montreal - the women there sure look fine to me. You sure you have exhausted Montreal? You are still very young. What about nearby Toronto? Why go south so soon? But if you do want to go south - another suggestion you might consider being Canadian - Cuba!

... in response to Re: Re: First time...be gentle....need s..., posted by papi on Oct 20, 2005

And also I have a thing for latinas.  I find them the most beautiful of all nationalities.  As well, in general they are very sweet and loyal.

... in response to Re: Re: First time...be gentle....need s..., posted by papi on Oct 20, 2005

Thanks for the vote of confidence for my trip.  Hopefully I will have many options and even more hopefully, I am able to choose the right option.

As for Montreal women, you are right.  I think on an overall basis, Montreal has some of the hottest women in the world.  You can walk down the street and 8 of 10 women will be good looking to hot.  But its the problem with most North American women in general that I have trouble with.  The women my age do alot of drugs and partying, and are not into romance.  I desire a woman who is pure of drugs, who doesnt have a history of sleeping with tons of guys (Not expecting a virgin, but don't want to be shooting a banana in to the Grand Canyon either).  And the women here are generally afraid of commitment, or treat commitment as a contract to be reviewed quarterly.  Even though I have slept around a bit and even been divorced, I don't believe this is a double standard, as in my past I had the same intentions as I do now.  I never wanted one-nighters nor being divorced.

Wow, I talk too much.

Thanks again

... in response to Re: Re: Re: First time...be gentle....ne..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 20, 2005

[This message has been edited by papi]

Friend, sorry, but I don’t buy any on that. Yes, there are some sweet Latinas but lets remember that economics is the driving motivations of foreign relationships and to a lesser extent their challenges with the local men and you may meet many Latin flakes with qualities equally or more undesirable then in your area.  I think you are generalizing about North American women and there are good ones who want commitment.  For guys my age wanting a younger and attractive lady, the demographics, etc. are not in our favor.  If you are not an attractive man, maybe that would be holding you back but otherwise I would suggest you rethink this whole thing and make an all out effort to find one of those French beauties in Montreal.  In fact, if you think they might go for an older guy – I am looking for a new wingman and may be open to heading North for a change....LOL.  You are very young – give it a better effort again in Montreal or Toronto before contacting Avianca then comeback here in 5 or 10 years if all else fails. Good luck

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: First time...be gentle....., posted by papi on Oct 20, 2005

Papi, thanks for the support, but I think the Montreal women are for fun only and not for long term commitment.  If you ever do come up here, sure I'll be your wing man.  It's not hard for an older guy to score a younger girl for the night (within reason).  It depends on how old you are, but generally anything over 35 is a guaranteed lay, even if you're over 50.  But the 20-30 category is usually dominated by guys my age.  Sorry bro.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First time...be gent..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 20, 2005

I am 46 and ideally want to find someone 25-30 give or take. I have dated much younger but 26-28 i think is perfect. If I had a trust fund I might be able to score with that in Miami but alas I think I am burdened with the task of fishing south.  On the plus side, I do get a lot of first class upgrades...LOL. Seriously though, I like some of my amigos have tired of Colombia and now exploring other areas yet I would not rule out a return to Colombia for that matter either. Keep in mind that this long distance thing is a bitch and a reminder that those Frenchies are dolls!  suerte

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First time...be ..., posted by papi on Oct 20, 2005

Papi,  In regards to the french women being dolls, you're absolutely right, but dolls are only fun to play with for a little while, then you get bored of them and leave them on the floor collecting dust.

My first wife was latina (from Mexico) and I have to tell you, there is nothing that beats a latina.  NOTHING.  But like I said, I'd be happy to show you the ropes up here.  The best pick up bar in Montreal is calles Sir Winstons.  Its impossible to leave that club without someone, regardless of age, looks, etc.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: First time....., posted by Montrealer on Oct 20, 2005

no shit, Sir Winstons. You know I love Montreal - i may just take you up on that but I am not about to start taking French lessons. I have enough difficulty maintaining my spanish.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: First time...be gentle....ne..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 20, 2005


Hello...hello....hello....hello.....hello...

Am I in....in.....in....in....in.....in....

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

You said you don't plan on getting engaged the first trip, but maybe on the second.

I think the only plan you should follow is not to have a plan.  You can't plan when you're going to meet the right woman (who thinks you're the right man).  If it happens, it happens.  Might be the first trip, might be the second, might be your 57th.  At that point we'll change your user name to Baqpro.

Oh, there is one thing you should plan-  Study Spanish. If at all possible (and it probably is if you set your mind to it) take a real course in it as a college.

... in response to Might want to change your plan, posted by Patrick on Oct 19, 2005

.

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005


Just about the only thing "gentle" in your quest, is that you better be a "Gentleman" to those ladies you plan on meeting on your trips down south. Ok Monty, don't go acting all Okie on us (just kidding). Be a gentleman, respect the culture, customs just like you would want a visitor to respect yours. I'm not quite sure by what you mean by "being too abrasive", but you'll find women are women. There are differences, no doubt about it...but nothing you need to sweat over.

Do you know any Spanish? Can you Salsa or Merengue? What's the rush on engagement/marriage? TAKE YOUR TIME! I just have to say, that I have a slightly different take from poster J-Knight over who has control. You have some control, probably most...but remember, that you're being sized-up, checked-out, however you wanna put it, also!

TAKE YOUR TIME....break up that 12 day trip into two, if possible! This is your first trip, you're gonna experience & have to sort out much more than just the appropriate greeting my friend....RELAX! Make your first trip a vacation/recon adventure!

Did I tell you, to TAKE YOUR TIME?

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

first of all, my advice is to slow down. you ask us to be gentle? i don't think so, we would not be helping if we sugar coated the reality of this process, it isn't for everyone because it is not easy. if you want easy, stay in canada.

you've stated that you're possibly thinking of getting engaged on your second trip to someone you've only chatted with and maybe will see for 12 days on your first trip? what is the rush? only a handful of men are lucky enough to meet someone, get married right away and have it succeed, the odds are against you and if your questions are any indication of whether you're ready, it appears that you are far from knowing what you are doing.

if you need answers to questions like, where is a nice place to eat in barranquilla or how much should one expect to spend on certain things,then you will get lots of help but if you are asking commen sense questions like how do you tell a woman you are interested in her without sounding like a jerk or should i kiss her or not, then you are far from being ready.

my advice is not only to slow down but meet and go out with many women, get your answers from them, not us and you will see that women are women, everyone will react differently, you will have to learn to read them, use commen sense, if they don't act the way you want then move on, be a man, you are in control, not the women.
JK

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

Welcome, in my opinion, and others will likely disagree with me on this but women from BQ tend to be a tad more conservative then the interior but there are always exceptions.  That being said, a kiss on the cheek is fairly uniform and appropriate even among friends – if not on greeting then when saying goodbye. You should give them a kiss - you will know if it on the cheek because she will lead you in the correct position that meets her needs. They will also vary in intimacy level depending again on their conservatism or how much they really dig you, but I would not be alarmed if there was only a kiss on the cheek the first few dates.  After that, well you better be either very patient or she may not be really into you.  I have met women from the coast that jumped in the sack with me on the first date even before I even fed them to the virginal types that I got the impression wanted to only hold hands until we marry. My only suggestion is consider a backup plan in the event things don’t workout with the contacts you made.  To that end, there are agencies in town that can introduce you to several women or you can try your luck at the mall, gym or clubs. If you need a trusty taxi to pick you up or info on hotels, agencies - i would be glad to help. By the way, i think you mentioned you are from Montreal - I love that city and the women from there are gorgeous. no good hunting locally? Good luck

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

I have found that each woman is different whether Latin or otherwise and asking general questions about women are a waste of time. Women are women wherever you go, and the stuff that the agencies tell you are just lines to get you there. Latinas are not that much different as a group than any other type of woman. You will know (or need to find out) the answers to your questions when you are in front of the woman (or women) and not sooner. "Some will and some won't" is the only valid answer to any questions about women...

Just be yourself and if they like you, they will let you know how to do whatever it is you want to do to or with them. If they don't like you, they won't usually tell you, but if they aren't letting you know by their actions in all certainty that they do, then move on...

... in response to Re: First time...be gentle....need some ..., posted by soltero on Oct 19, 2005

n/t

... in response to Re: First time...be gentle....need some ..., posted by soltero on Oct 19, 2005

Great post as always.  Another post in which you lay out the obvious.  How come you are so well adjusted?
I would bet that you had no problem getting girls in the US and that you have transfered your talent to your new hunting zone.  Again great stuff.

... in response to Re: Re: First time...be gentle....need s..., posted by Heat on Oct 19, 2005

Thanks hermano, I don't have a problem dealing with women, I just prefer Latinas...The best women in my life have been Latinas and that's why I decided to head south to the source. I have had a few bad apples, but I just place those under "experience" and take what I have learned to make better choices. No regrets. You aren't doing to bad yourself. I hope all is well with you and your lady...

... in response to First time...be gentle....need some answ..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

usually 1st time without ever writing or speaking to the person, a hand shake, but if you have talked  to the person 1st, either phone or e mails, a kiss on the cheek is ok and accepted.
 if the date went well?, well... if they know your going to meet other girls, most wont go for a big, wet smack with some tongue, at least the girls with some morals wont, but im sure a few will be willing.

most of all of this is common sense, depends on weather the two of you hit it off well, and have mutual feelings, but watch out for the ones who are too egger to get you into bed, their is a arterial motive somewhere.

Better if you two go out, that you get dropped off 1st, you don’t need to be in a taxi at night, by yourself, just a bad idea.

If you get engaged in your 1t trip, then you are heading for a big disaster, would you get engaged to a girl in your city within 12 days?  I doubt it, so why would you do it down there?

Hope this helps

... in response to Re: First time...be gentle....need some ..., posted by mudd on Oct 19, 2005

Chivalry really is dead...

... in response to Dropped off first?, posted by soltero on Oct 19, 2005

Chivalry isn’t dead, but you just might be, if you’re in the wrong taxi at night, by yourself. think about it, your in Colombia, a foreigner who everybody thinks has money, riding around in a taxi at night, by yourself, and probably have no idea about where your going, other than a address scribble on a piece of paper.
A lot of girls I went out with would drop me off 1st out of concern that I wouldn’t make it back to my house or hotel alone in a taxi at night. Any girl with some common sense knows what to do.

And believe me, I know. I have been robbed at gunpoint in a taxi, and that was in broad daylight in Cali.

... in response to Re: Dropped off first?, posted by mudd on Oct 19, 2005

I am sorry that that happened to you. I guess it depends on what variables are in the works. I learned to speak Spanish before I set foot in Cali (passable, but better now), I under dress while there while staying presentable and neat, and I never take any gold or jewelry or anything that would make me stand out. It also helps that most Colombians I have met think I am either Colombian or Puerto Rican. I can't get the accent right, so I have given up on it. Our experiences there have been different, and although I can see where you are coming from, I would be more concerned about her arriving home safely as she would probably be less likely to protect herself. I have heard too many stories about women being raped by taxistas or robbed as well to send a date home alone at night unless she was certain that she felt safe and would call me afterwards to let me know she arrived safely. I also get the number of the cab before it leaves.

... in response to Re: Re: Dropped off first?, posted by soltero on Oct 19, 2005

my spanish sucks, but i can get by with the basics. most girls ( the ones with some brains) know of a taxi driver they like, that they know and trust, and will call them at night, even if it means waiting a few extra minutes. we did this many times, that way, i got home safe, they got home safe and i usually tipped extra to the driver, so he makes out well too. whats a few extra pesos to make sure she gets home safe.

... in response to Re: Re: Dropped off first?, posted by soltero on Oct 19, 2005

Soltero,is the wearing of jewelry, watch,necklace,bracelet,et,. That big of a deal in Colombia? I mean I am a native New Yorker, never had a problem,until I came to California. Actually did get robbed at gunpoint in San Francisco, but that was because they just simply wanted to rob us,they were str8 punks. I still love the city though, and would'nt change my style of dress or what I wear because of it.

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Dropped off first?.......Ok ..., posted by FanMan on Oct 19, 2005

[This message has been edited by soltero]

It isn't just Colombia. It's just understanding the predatory mind. Individuals who want what you have and are too weak or lazy to earn it for themselves exist everywhere. Most predators are basically lazy. If you notice, most in the wild just lay around until they get hungry. When they attack, they go for whoever they perceive to be the easiest to take down. With predatory people, there are other factors (drug use, sport, etc.), but these are the basics. Anything that makes you stand out, such as shiny gold or jewelry has the tendency to draw their attention. It isn't even about the value at the basic level. It just allows someone to focus in on you because the glitter attracts attention. It is best to blend in as much as possible when in an environment that you are unsure of. Also, if you appear confident and sure of yourself, this automatically registers in the predatory mind and they tend to usually look for the path of least resistance.

Once you are in a dangerous situation, unless you have been trained to deal with one and have experience, the best thing to do is remain calm and give them what they want and hope for the best. There are many small and subtle ways to avoid confrontation altogether. Try to avoid being placed in the position of a victim in the first place, because ANYONE can be one in the right (or wrong) circumstance.

By the way, more than likely, as a Native New Yorker, you knew where to go and how to naturally respond or act while you were there. You were at home so your level of apprehension was normal there. When you go to other places, you subconciously act differently (either more cautious or less) and alert those trying to weed you out that you don't belong. The two most important tools in the avoidance of problems is common sense and listening to that little voice in your head.

... in response to Dropped off first?, posted by soltero on Oct 19, 2005

I know.  I can't imagine letting a woman take herself home.  But security is a big factor at night for Gringos (even Canadian Gringos), so taking a taxi alone at night may actually be safer for her.  Although, during all my travels through small towns and big cities in Mexico, I never had a problem.  I guess I'll play that one by ear or try to find a good driver for the week.

Any other suggestions you pros could offer a newbie would be appreciated.

... in response to Re: Dropped off first?, posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

My best suggestion to you is to stay alert and if you have a "bad feeling" then go with it. I am not an expert on the dangers in Colombia, because all of my trips have been uneventful in that respect, but I am an expert on avoiding them. The best thing to do is not draw undue attention, be yourself, and always think about what might go wrong and prepare for it. Listen to that little voice in your head always and enjoy yourself and have a great and safe trip.

... in response to Re: Dropped off first?, posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

By the way, the cabfare from the airport runs about 17000 pesos.  I like to tip my friend well for picking me up at the airport or my hotel on return so usually give him 20-25K pesos each way.  You wont have pesos when you arrive so I don’t think it would be a problem if you gave him $10 - $12US

When riding around town always negotiate the fare upfront.  A friend of mine used to say there is a special place in hell for taxi drivers and whores.  That being the case, most taxis will try to take advantage of you and they don’t have meters in bq.  Make sure your dates asks the price before you get in the taxi or do so yourself if you speak spanish– make it a habit or plan on getting screwed.  And as another friend of mine likes to say – don’t feed the bears.  In other words, if gringos keep shelling out extra cash in latin america – locals will continue to try and take advantage of us.  Normally, the fare runs about 3000-4000 pesos for local destinations. Hotel taxis generally run higher but everything is a negotiation. For example, if they say 6000, say 4000 or go to another taxi and they will drop the price. We are not talking a lot of money but dont let them take advantage of you. I tip when they quote me the correct price which the locals never do. For example, if the fare is 3500 i give them 4000. Trust me, the locals will wait for change

For pesos, you will get a better exchange at the ATM machine. I like the green Servibanca the best. Never a problem and you can get 300K pesos per withdrawal

... in response to Re: Dropped off first?, posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

BQ is considered one of the safer areas in Colombia, yet I do know a couple that got robbed at gunpoint riding in a taxi by a guy on a motorcycle so it is not a bad idea to lock the doors but I often forget to do that.  I also met some gringos that got robbed of all their belongings when dropped off near their aparta hotel from the airport – and they felt the taxi was in on it so I would recommend a trusty taxi because in my opinion problems can more likely happen arriving from the airport.  Don’t let your date just call any taxi for the airport– go with someone that can be trusted.  I can give you a name.  At night, most of the time the girls drop me off first but sometimes I have taken them home first.  Don’t worry about the chivalry thing in this case, you are in a foreign country and they are aware of it and want to make sure you get back to your hotel without a problem.  Again, BQ is relatively safe but it is prudent to take some precautions

... in response to Re: First time...be gentle....need some ..., posted by mudd on Oct 19, 2005

Thanks for your answers.

As for the last one about marriage, I have no intention of getting engaged on my first trip, but possibly my second which will be 2 months after my first.  I just want to know a good way of bringing it up, so that by the end of my trip I have it narrowed down to 1-2 girls that I will focus my attention on.  How is this conversation brought up?

... in response to Re: Re: First time...be gentle....need s..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

Okie, I mean Montrealer didn't you read JK's advice? What is it that you don't get about being a man?
If you feel it is right, look deep into her eyes and say my search is over I'm taking you home. If she is into you she will have an orgasm. If she pauses, proxima! Find your balls already and stop already with the juvenile questions. Be a freaking MAN!

... in response to Re: Re: First time...be gentle....need s..., posted by Montrealer on Oct 19, 2005

It shouldn't be difficult to bring up the topic. She will probably also be thinking about the long-term prospects. For my wife and I it was a natural part of the conversation between us.

... in response to If things are going REALLY well, posted by utopiacowboy on Oct 19, 2005

plain ol commen sense, something that seems to be lacking in a  few of the guys here.
JK