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Ray

“how do you suggest getting to know her better?”
Yes, e-mails, phone calls, letters, online chats, etc. That’s an excellent way to get to know someone more deeply when you can’t be together in person. Instead of just making endless small talk, ask the big questions and discuss all your concerns, dreams, and feelings about the important issues. It takes time and patience to get to know someone deeply. Those guys who think they can meet a lady today and get engaged next week are really bucking the odds.

“Some of the guys that luck up the first time out might not be the best to give post VISA advice.”
What are you insinuating here? That I or some others just got lucky and our opinions don’t count? Give me a break! It takes a lot more than luck to find the right woman. Luck is only a small part of the equation. There is a lot of hard work involved in this game and it takes much more than 90 days of playing house together. It takes patience, time, and a lot of serious communications to determine if you are likely to be compatible and have a happy life together. Those that think it is all luck are only fooling themselves.

Is the fiancée visa the best way to go? For some people, yes. For others, a traditional wedding in the lady’s hometown with her family and friends in attendance is more appropriate. Whether you both decide to go for the fiancée visa or a spousal visa, just make damn sure that BOTH of you are ready to make a lifetime commitment before you make your decision to marry.

Ray

I hear this about luck all the time. Yeah, guys like Tiger Woods, Joe Montana, Roger Clemens etc. are just lucky. I am not putting myself in their class as far as women are concerned but I think a guy makes his own luck. You may get a few breaks in life but one guy can take advantage of them and another guy can't. Or one guy can see what is necessary to close the deal of a life time and another guy is just so rigid he can't manage it.

You may place yourself in a position to do a certain thing, but regardless of your level of skill, there is always luck involved because there are always things beyond your control. I am not trying to change your mind, just delivering a counterpoint. Call it whatever you want, but have the good sense to give credit to forces working beyond your control. (this last statement is not directed specifically at you UC)

However there is a lot we can control. We can keep our eyes open for opportunities and take advantage of them when they present themselves. A good athlete may be "lucky" enough to have his opponent make a mistake but what separates the men from the boys is what you do with this "luck". Do you take advantage of it or do you let it slip away?

I would say in the course of a lifetime, each one of us has as many positive as negative chance encounters. Those of us who can minimize the effects of the negative while maximizing the positive will be those that others call "lucky". I think with the right attitude and skills, it's there for everyone.

The fact is that Cowboy and others made choices that led to a happy marriage. He could have chosen any of millions of women on this planet who would have made a good loving wife. Anyone who thinks that there is only one woman out there who can be the right mate for him (“soul mate”) and he must only get lucky to find her is just goofy. Just because he happened to settle on this particular woman is not based overwhelmingly on luck, but is more a tribute to Cowboy’s ability to sort through thousands of women to select a good one.

Soltero, I don’t know your personal situation, but from my experience, the guys on these forums who push the “luck factor” as the primary reason for success in marriage are always the same guys who had a big failure in their relationship with a woman. Instead of accepting that they may be the one primarily responsible for their failure by their choice of mate, they try to justify their mistakes by blaming it all on bad luck. And instead of giving credit to those guys who made a good choice and worked hard on their relationship to build a successful, happy marriage, they brush it off as just dumb luck.

Like I said before, a little luck always helps but luck is just a minor player in this game of life. Did you ever consider the possibility that some guys are just better judges of character and are able to make good choices based on their good judgement while others just don’t have a clue? You’re not very likely to find a good wife by relying on luck just as you aren’t likely to get rich by purchasing a Super Lotto ticket.

Ray

I am not going to repeat my position again as I explained it well enough in the previous posts. Repetition is for the hard of hearing, and this has been typed, so go back and read more slowly. I think your position is valid and worked for you, but you are Ray, not John, Bill or Steve. The point is, the other option is there for a reason, and if you don't like it, that point has been made clearly. That does not mean that because Ray uttered it, so shall it be done.

Luck, Fate, Kismet, Faith is involved. Something greater than YOU is involved. To say that someone is less than, more ignorant, foolish, or otherwise diminished for not being as lucky, yes,lucky as you have been is slightly short of dense. This is not a process that is won through analysis as many have told Okie. There is only so much that you can prepare for. You can know exactly what you want and how to get it and still never receive it. I guess you, Ray, can also tell the future. You are amazing. Keep patting yourself on the back for your amazing preparatory skills, and think back on how you met your wife and how many things could have gone wrong without you, the Captain of Destiny, unneeding of the hand of God, steering the ship. Luck is not everything Ray, on that we agreed before you wrote the post that I am responding to. Let's agree to disagree as it is time to move on...

Oh, I almost forgot...

"Why can’t you just admit that Cowboy used his head to made a good choice for a mate."

Go back in the archives and read some of his posts on how they met. Maybe I read them incorrectly. It seemed that a lot of fate, destiny and luck was involved in HIS telling of it. Not discounting any other factor, just saying it was involved. Are you a CPA or an Actuary? Just curious. As happy as he is, you want to say that he "settled" for this woman? I think he found someone that fit him perfectly from his account, and crunching numbers alone will NOT lead you to that.

Let it go Ray...we disagree. I am an idiot for having my opinion and so are you for having yours. I am not going to change your mind and you are not going to change mine. We can play nice from now on and agree to disagree. Usually, most of your points are valid because they are based in fact, but this is one that you cannot prove by going to the USCIS website, so let it go. Lastly, I apologize for not remaining succinct with this post.

No matter how you try to spin it, there are some guys who have a successful marriage because of their hard work and good choices. You can attribute their success to luck if you wish, but you are only fooling yourself. Sorry, but I ain’t buying your nonsense.

Ray :-)

   Some men learn some do not, some dissappear it is life I don't call it luck.

“Everything I said is in Black and White in the posts above this one. Truly read my posts and see if Ray was only arguing with himself or not.” O.K., let’s take a look at some of the things that you actually said.

Soltero: “Some of the guys that luck up the first time out might not be the best to give post VISA advice.”
Translation: You’re opinions and advice don’t count because you only got lucky so you should shut up.

Soltero: “Sorry, but that's bullsh!t”
Translation: Only my (Soltero’s) opinions are correct and everyone else’s opinions are just bull shit.

Soltero: “…unless you think you are something special and different in some way, you, and anyone else that found happiness the first time out was lucky”
Translation: Only the almighty Soltero is special and everyone else who found happiness is just stupid and lucky.

Soltero: “Don't get upset about that fact.”
Translation: My (Soltero’s) opinions are facts and everyone else’s are just bull shit whether you like it or not.

Soltero: “Cheap name calling? I'm sorry, but I just threw back at you what you yourself posted. O.K., lets look at your words:

Soltero: “I will not stoop to calling them foolish or stupid”. Excuse me, but you just did. Did I call you foolish and stupid?

Soltero: “…arrogant individuals such as yourself…”. Did I call you arrogant?

Soltero: “To say that someone is less than, more ignorant, foolish, or otherwise diminished for not being as lucky, yes,lucky as you have been is slightly short of dense.” Excuse me, but I didn’t say those things and I didn’t call you dense either. Perhaps you are hallucinating again?

Soltero: “…the Captain of Destiny, unneeding of the hand of God, steering the ship…” My, what a load of crap that was! Yes, I need God but YOU aren’t God Soltero.

Soltero: “…who although an expert on immigration law for some odd reason (or a very good cut and paste artist)…”. Well, I NEVER proclaimed myself to be an expert on immigration law or anything else and besides, what does that stupid-ass comment have to do with the topic at hand anyway. You’re just blowing smoke Soltero because you have nothing else.

And YOU had the balls to call ME arrogant? ROTFLMGDAO! You simply cannot accept an opposing opinion and the evidence is right there in “Black and White”.

Yes, I’ll drop this topic when YOU stop distorting the truth by making false accusations of what I posted.

No hard feelings :-)

Ray

Take care....

Oh my God, you’re killing me…LOL! If it’s not important to you, then why do you continue with your silly nonsense? I think you’re obsessed… LOL!

I didn’t think you could answer my questions. There’s nothing wrong with a good debate, but it’s obvious that you just can’t handle any disagreement so I’ll let you go argue with yourself in the mirror where you will always look good in your own mind :-)

Now why don’t you stick your thumb in your ear and go bowling?

Oh, you don’t have to really do it. I was just kidding LOL!

Ray

 I watched my wife get into fights with her mother, her son ect but I think what I
liked the most was she really did care for everyone. She had alot of friends that
she introduced me to, I met just about everyone she knew . After the 4 months I
spent with her at 1 month clips we really only had two fights that I could say one
was a misunderstanding and the other was my fault which I will admit too.

You and me both, Fuzzy...Congratulations on finding yours.

Take care, Ray...no hard feelings.

I do not believe there is any truth to what Calipro said, “Young hot women that have options won't normally go for a fiancée visa.”

I have not seen any woman (including very good looking women) decline this route. If a woman loves you she goes with little if any hesitation.

While a very high percentage of Colombian women believe in God there are not as many as you would initially think that are religious.

“There is nothing wrong with having doubts, but doing the hard work up front will help remove some of those doubts.”

I would suggest that one not move forward if they have any doubts

“...ask the big questions and discuss all your concerns, dreams, and feelings about the important issues.... It takes time and patience to get to know someone deeply.”

Critical

“Luck is only a small part of the equation… Those that think it is all luck are only fooling themselves.”

Very true.
“...just make damn sure that BOTH of you are ready to make a lifetime commitment before you make your decision to marry.”

And the communication process you noted will confirm this.

Engage the Exotic – Colombian Women
http://International-Introductions.com

That's what i thought. I spent 9 months and 3 trips to Colombia to see her before getting married. Some say 9 months is enough time; some say no. Of course, an engagement to a woman who lives in your own city is distinctive, since you can see each other virtually every day. Living together, on the other hand, is a whole new ballgame. She's been here 4 months now, and we've already experienced some big league ups and downs. I am lucky. She is patient. She needs to be because i can be a friggin' animal.  We are working it out.

Getting married is a serious decision made between two people, and appropriateness, righteousness or convenience should not have anything to do with it. How "appropriate" would it be to send her home to her family a few months later frantic and crying of divorce after the relationship goes sour?

For the record, what I said was:
“Is the fiancée visa the best way to go? For some people, yes. For others, a traditional wedding in the lady’s hometown with her family and friends in attendance is more appropriate.”

But your right that living together is a whole new ballgame and I’m happy for you that you are working out your problems. I don’t think anyone should expect a perfect relationship with no problems at all. I think we all have to make some big adjustments when we marry and that comes with the territory. I believe the key to a successful marriage is a full commitment by BOTH partners to do whatever it takes to make it work. Four months isn’t so long when you look ahead to a possible lifetime together. Yes, even after spending 4 years living together and getting to know each other, my first wife and I had problems during the first few years of marriage. But, like you, we both worked on it and things got steadily better. We raised three wonderful children together and have many good memories to look back on. If I had the chance to back out after 3 months here in the States, I don’t know what I would have done. That’s one of the problems I have with this “90-day test drive theory”. I think too many guys would take the easy way out when they see a few problems pop up without ever giving the relationship a chance to grow and without ever really trying to work out those initial kinks. Who knows what they may have missed out on in the long run?

But, like I said before, each individual couple has to find what works best for them. Because of the circumstances at the time, we used a fiancée visa in my first marriage. The second time around, there was no way my wife was going to come all the way over here for a “test drive”. That would have caused her to compromise her values and go against everything that she believed in. I respected that and I know she appreciates the sacrifices I made to give her the wedding she always wanted. You know how us guys are. Most of us would be perfectly happy with the drive-thru Elvis wedding in Las Vegas where you don’t even have to get out of the car (LOL). I’m sure that your wife also appreciates the fact that you got married over there. Things are more likely to work out just fine if both of you are patient and keep working at it.

Good luck in your marriage,

Ray

"If you can find a woman who is willing to walk away from everything and let you “test drive” her for 90 days to see if she is a keeper or not, then go for it."

She would have to be willing to "test" it out here for 90 days because that's the only way it is going to happen. I appreciate her sacrifice, but I also appreciate the fact that she is going to be a complete dependent for at least 3 years, and I won't be getting half of what she brought in her suitcase if we get divorced, but she will be entitled to half of the stuff accumulated during the marriage which she may or may not have been responsible for earning. As I said before, I did the spousal visa the first time around and I wish I hadn't because it was apparent that although we may have been happy if we stayed in her home country, it wasn't going to work here without alot more effort and understanding.  Neither one of us had the understanding (although we do now and are very good friends), and it did not work. The 90 days would have saved us both a lot of grief. Yoou can never be absolutely sure about anything. You can only prepare, try, and hope for the best.

"Yes, e-mails, phone calls, letters, online chats, etc. That’s an excellent way to get to know someone..."

Sorry, but that's bullsh!t. All of those are great fillers, but the ONLY way to truly know someone is to be with them. My ex and I emailed each other for almost a year and spoke on the phone (very limited due to my Spanish at the time) and I still didn't know her because I didn't spend that much actual face time with her. Emails are great for correspondence with someone you actually have spent quality time with, but as a way to get to know someone, yes, if you use this method and have success, you are lucky.

"What are you insinuating here?"

I don't think I insinuated anything. Read Ecclesiastes. "Time and chance happeneth to them all". There is a lot of luck involved in this. Wisdom, experience, patience, acceptance, and blind luck. If you didn't go through the muck that many of us have, and unless you think you are something special and different in some way, you, and anyone else that found happiness the first time out was lucky (if that's how it happened for you). Don't get upset about that fact. Count your blessings and be thankful. Do you think that you were the only one to perform due dilligence? Sorry friend, but luck was there whether you want to attest to it or not.

In closing, yes, the woman is entitled to the wedding of her choice, but that can be done later after both sides of the border have been tested. I am not in this to play around and am looking for a wife, but I feel that both parties are best served having a clear view of life together in both situations to make a better decision. Not all foreign women like living here, and if they don't, you need to know that before marrying them. Ray, you made comments as to the selfishness of my suggestion, but I am thinking of both parties. Anyone who is truly interested in marrying you can wait here just like they can wait there. 90 days isn't that long. Give the woman the opportunity to see what life would be like here and whether or not she is comfortable before she signs up. It works both ways. You can always go back after you get married here to give her the marriage she wants there knowing full well that you both have all the information and are happy together.

Why in the world would you think that I was upset with you? No need to suggest that I lighten up or that I have lost my sense of humor or that I shouldn’t be giving advice here. My opinions are no better than yours and yours are no better than mine. I think we can disagree without the insults thrown in.

Again, there is no right way to do this. If you insist on doing the 90-day trial first, I have absolutely no problem with that as long as you are honest with your fiancée and you both agree. Don’t discount the spousal visa route just because it didn’t work for you. There are valid reasons for doing it either way depending on the couple and the circumstances. I speak from personal experience because I have done it both ways myself.

I did the fiancée visa with my first wife but that was after 4 years of writing letters and multiple visits of several months. No, I didn’t luck out. We spent a lot of effort working on our relationship both before and after the wedding. Marriage is almost never easy and it usually takes a LOT of work to keep the relationship strong. Because I was in the Navy, we had many long separations over the 27+ years of our relationship. There wasn’t any e-mail or personal computers back then and overseas phone costs made frequent calls prohibitive. You had to sit down and write out your thoughts on paper and yes, those daily letters over the years did teach us a lot about each other and that is no bull shit. For those with weak communication skills or language differences, perhaps letter writing, e-mail, and phone chats won’t work and there is nothing wrong with that, but don’t discount those methods out of hand just because they didn’t work for you. Yes, spending time together is invaluable, but long-distance correspondence adds another important dimension to getting to really know each other.

I didn’t mean to imply that your method was being selfish, unless you pressured the lady to go against her personal values or religious beliefs to satisfy your insistence on a trial period of living together. I do know of some other guys that put it to the lady that she could forget about that visa if she didn’t agree to shack up together first. But if she is truly willing and agreeable, then there is nothing wrong with your method. But I think it would be fair and give her some peace of mind if you were to purchase a round trip ticket for her when she comes over on the fiancée visa and set aside some cash to help her return home and start over again in case you decide to dump her after 90 days :-)

And no, I never meant to imply that luck plays no part in finding the right mate, but I sincerely believe that luck is not THE primary factor.

Peace,

Ray

The main point is that you just never know. The problems that arise just from the clashes that come living together is not the only reason to go fiance visa. Cultural differences add an even bigger-?. She may not be able to handle the shock of separation of family, friends and country.
 
There is a marriage agency called CherryBlossoms.com who provided me a visa package, and answered a lot of my spousal visa questions. The whole time during the process the owner of the 30 year old company (now entirely an on line agency) kept asking: "why in the world do you want a spousal visa?"

When you look at it from the lady's point of view, there are many reasons to prefer a spousal visa over a fiancée visa. Your marriage will very possibly be much stronger if your stop to consider your partner's wishes also when deciding which visa to go for.

Ray

Young hot women that have options won't normally go for a fiancee visa.

Your advice is good for someone going for a run of the mill broad but it won't fly with hot single women that have never been married and don't have children.

Well you haven't met my new girlfriend yet. hehehe!!

She is 18 but not all that typical. Her family is pretty well off. Both of her parents are living and working in Spain.

She moved in with me and her family went crazy. She lied and told them that we are going to get married. She told me that if we don't set a wedding date soon she is going to move out. Not only would she not come to the U.S. on fiancee visa but we have to get married in a Catholic church (no exceptions).

Oh yes, do do the right thing and marry this lucky lass. And when she hits 39 and looks over at your 63 year old shriveled pindick, she won't help but look back on her life and feel grateful that she was the one to land our mighty hero-Caliahole.

If she lasts until she is 30 she will be the best I ever met. LOL !!!

With any luck I'll never know what a 39 year old dried up cu#t looks like. But you can tell us about it Spanky. hehehe !!

I'm going to have to see how she holds up under normal wear and tear.

If you are going for a woman the is over thirty or has a kid what do they have to lose. They will probably go for it.

beattledog

beattledog

KB

In Colombia, in accordance with Colombian law, there are two methods for executing this legal contract.  The first method is the Civil Law process and the other is the Roman Catholic Church process.   The web page link you showed is a very good source of info on the topic.

So, if by marriage you mean a legal contract between two people, your original questions could be refrased as "Anyone know how to enter into a legal marriage contract between two people quickly and easily, like without all the legeally required documents?"  It is like trying to bake a cake intended for eating (if you want to eventually bring her to the US) but using just mud and hydraulic fluid as ingredients.  

However, if by marriage you somehow mean a non-legally binding and non-legally recognized contract between two people, you can invent your own ceremony, just remember it has NO significance.  My suggestion for a "ceremony" is the couple should strip down naked and throw hot candle wax on each other and then light each other's hair on fire.  Remember to take photos and post them for us to see....  I am sure www.onlinepretendweddings.com will have some other suggestions.  

Teo Blas

I don’t know if he can get married without presenting his divorce decree, but he will never be able to petition her for a visa without it. He will need to submit a photocopy of his complete divorce decree with the visa petition and his spouse will need a certified copy also to present with the documents needed for her visa interview.

If he were to attempt to hide the fact that he was previously married, he would have to falsify a lot of official documents and could face up to 5 years in prison and a heavy fine for falsifying or concealing a material fact.

Ray

If he got married in the Catholic Church, the failure to notify the eccleastic authorities about a prior marriage would raise grave doubts about it's validity.  It's never a good idea to conceal or to speed up the process by trickery.

DO NOT make the mistake of equating a Colombian notary with the jack legs who are all over the USA.  Most are attorneys and are important and powerful people.  They do NOT come to you, you go to them and their office will be jammed. There is a lengthy course and examination needed to be certified as a notary in Colombia and you MUST go to Bogotá for the school and to take the examination. The appointment comes directly from the Minister of Justice.

Best advice for him:  DO IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're right Gator, the notary does not come to the church after getting married.  You must take the documents to the notary yourself.

I was married by a notary and then two weeks later by the Catholic Chuch at San Antonio's in Cali.  In our case, there was no need to file with the notary after our Church wedding because we were already legally married.