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Obviously, I have been doing alot of soul searching, but something that we have briefly touched on here in the past has just popped back into my head and I thought I'd open a dialog on it.

I'm noticing an alarming trend.  Unfortunately, I am an unwilling participant.  What is alarming me is what I have been seeing on here in the last year or so.

When I first got on here, a looooong time ago, everything was pretty positive.  Then, right around the time I was trying to get Ayesa's K-1 moving along---July 2000ish--we started to hear the horror stories.  Larry's ordeal pops immediately to mind, but I know there were other, which include Zebson, myself and some who popmin now and again at the moment.

I know my wife wasn't interviewed or screened.  Heck, she wasn't even the one given the application by who ever was recruiting for 4everyoursDOTcom.  Her neighbor was approached at school, Cebu or Manila I am assuming and was afraid to go through with it.  My wife--God love her--possibly having more balls than brains, was the one who filled out the application and mailed it to California.

I guess where I'm going with this is that the explosion of the internet and the internet dating scene, more and more guys were looking, so more and more sites began to pop up.  Supply and demand... God Bless America!

Newbies, BEWARE!  With the shrinking of the globe via the net, more and more guys married foreign women, making it less of a rarity in these countries.  Like anything good, the more people who get involved the harder it is to maintain any kind of quality.  Been to a McDonalds lately?  Remember when the food was not only edible, but your order was processed quickly, CORRECTLY and by someone with higher than a 3rd grade I.Q.?  I do, it was a long time ago!

Not to equate our quest for love, acceptance and stability with fast food, but my point has to be sinking in, right?

All I am trying to say is that, in my opinion, what has seemed to have happened is that many of these women feel more confident that they might be able to land a foreign husband, increasing the number of available women on the web sites that we all go to.  With the increase in women, comes a greater risk of of finding someone who did it on a whim or someone who is truely a goldigger, as well as increasing the pool of decent women.  The more normal it becomes, the more young ladies wanna get on the bus.

It isn't just me right?  The rest of you oldtimers have seen the numbers of failing marriages go up in the last few years, right?

I dunno, just a thought to keep my mind off of more depressing thoughts ;c)

Just thought I'd share :c)

H

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

Howard,
 I haven't read PL for a week now due to being too busy along with computer problems but I am catching up this morning.   First, I want to say, I wish you the best whatever happens with you and Ayessa.  Second, I disagree with you about the risk of marrying a Filipina being higher now that the Internet is so widespread.   No matter how many websites pop up, I doubt the number of men who have the resolve to actually follow through with a pen-pal courtship and go visit the ladies will increase significantly.   Face it, it's hard to have a long distance relationship and most will only dream of it or at best buy a bunch of addresses and then lose interest over time.   Not trying to pick on you but when you are experiencing something it's just human nature to focus in on others who are in the same boat.   This can somewhat skew our perception of how widespread this 'whatever' is that we are experiencing.

 I haven't noticed any change at all in the success of these marriages since I got into this thing back in 1992.   There are some failures and some successes.   The successes outnumber failures in my experience.  Exactly what the percentages might be is anybody’s guess.  I couldn't stay silent on this one because it might cause some lurkers here to quit before they even try because of fear.   I still say it's a great way to meet women for marriage.  

 Howard, I haven't had time to read any of the responses to your recent posts, so you may touched on this already - if so just point me in the right direction.  If not, what I want to ask you now is that blessed with 20/20 hindsight from your recent torment, can you now see any signals from Ayessa that she was not entering this marriage with a willing heart?  Something?   Anything?   I keep thinking of how you mentioned her lack of affection early on.  Could it be you ignored this and tried to force yourself into happiness when your inner alarms were going off telling you to watchout?   I've been there and I know those alarms are darned hard to listen to but that's one thing a new guy better be aware of!    

THIS IS FOR THE NEW GUYS AND LURKERS!!  Don't put all your eggs in one basket...get to know lots of ladies so you don't get to the point where it's not really working but you try to force it due to the time and money invested!  The time and money are gone anyway - a bad marriage sure won't bring them back.   Not saying you did or did not do this, Howard....only you can decide that.  :)

                      SteveG

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

Maybe you are right, maybe not. I have been dating Filipina women on and off since about 1990, and I can't say that I have seen much change in "the quality" of my penpals during those years... Just my impression. I never married anyone, so perhaps I didn't get to know them all that well...

... in response to Re: A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by cc on Dec 8, 2001

That's the whole point isn't it?  You haven't married any filipinas or made a commitment. Most of us who you read about complaining about problems made a commitment and got married. I had a wonderful time in the Philippines.  If I would have left the relationship at that point I would be coming on this board saying "I don't see a problem. I just had a quality relationship.  Maybe you are right, maybe not."  Most likely a couple wouldn't get married if they didn't have a quality relationship up to the time of the marriage.  It's when she gets over her and you get on with the day to day living and deal with conflict resolution that determines how the relationship works.  There is a big issue you haven't dealt with and that is called period of adjustment.  When you make a commitment and get married report back to us.

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

First, I met my wife at Cherry Blossoms, which, IMO, is shark-infested water if ever there was any.  Then I decided to marry my wife after only knowing her for a few months and never having met her in person.  We just sent emails, chatted online for hours and talked on the phone. I would have told anyone else they were crazy but it definitely seemed right to me.  We covered all the issues in our long chats and we were ready.  I must admit I was a little skiddish sending her thousands of dollars to pay for the wedding before ever going there.  Especially with the problems being reported here.  I didn't even post what I was doing here because I knew the logical response would be one of caution, and I had already thrown that to the wind, LOL.  Anyway, we had elaborate wedding plans and a lot of it had to be paid for in advance.  Wow.  I remember thinking a few times that this could be one of those situations where a guy gets milked out of his money and ends up with nothing.  It would have been impossible to avoid those feelings no matter who I was marrying.  But, she was there at the airport.  And all the money went where she said.  We had a beautiful wedding and now I'm happier than I've ever been in my life.

I wouldn't suggest it for anyone else but it definitely worked out for me.

... in response to I broke all the rules..., posted by JephW on Dec 7, 2001

They normaly wait till they got dat Green Card before they split and try taking all you money! Don't count your chickens yet!  Wish you the best!   Humabdos

... in response to Re: I broke all the rules... It aint ove..., posted by Mr Kabalaka on Dec 7, 2001

Well
Jesica and i have been married 3 years now she has all her rights here plus pink card she can come and go to any country she wants.
I went to Cebu,I saw and conquared what i went for,no pen pal nothing i just went,and we are very happy with NO problems
tneal

... in response to Re: I broke all the rules... It aint ove..., posted by Mr Kabalaka on Dec 7, 2001

Actually, I'm extremely confident but I also know better men than me have still had problems.  We've had our share of disagreements but we truly love each other and there's no faking.  You can be the first one to say, "I told ya so," but as of now I'm not the least bit worried.  We have to much to do together and too many plans to consider a breakup.  Never say never, but I really think I'm right on this one.

... in response to I broke all the rules..., posted by JephW on Dec 7, 2001

Thanks for the post.  That's good to know.

Actually, what Howard is going through could have happened to any of us.  Meeting the right person can be very scarey whether it's in the USA or half the way around the world.

Tess has been a wonderful blessing to me.  But as I read the stories of others I realize that in many ways I probably "lucked out".  Those same things could have happened to me.

Yeah.  I'm a very lucky man also.

Stephen

... in response to Re: I broke all the rules..., posted by Stephen on Dec 7, 2001

Yeah - If a girl is really smooth and acts like the real thing then who's to know the difference?

I remember someone once posting that there would always be red flags with a true shark.  But, I think you might have to spend a good amount of time in the RP with her to see them if she's really good.

I think of Howard's case differently than those who use intentional deception.  Maybe it was pressure from her family that got her into something before she was ready.  If you're doing something for someone else then your heart won't be in it.  Either way the result can be just as bad - a broken heart and a lot of time and money lost.

I'm glad my search is over!

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

Well, I have to agree somewhat with aedude. I was married pre-internet (at least a public internet accessible to all) and it took real time, money and and determination. Travel costs were higher in real dollars. My first trip to Asia 25 years ago cost about $800 R/T. That was when a house cost $25000, a car $5000, and $20K per year was a good salary. Today a ticket costs about $800 and houses cost ten times as much, cars and salaries three to five times as much. I'd spent a total of 16 or 18 weeks with my wife spread out over nearly three years and five trips to see each other. I wasn't specifically out looking for an asian bride, either. It was far more like a courtship you might do here at home. Only after spending over 10 weeks together doing everything from day to day chores to exotic weekend getaways together, did I ask her to marry me.

I read on this board guys who come on and want to know exactly how much it will cost and how fast they can get this chore over, then pour over web sites with page after page of cute young girls, pick out a few of the best looking ones to write to. Then after falling in love with someone who may or may not be writing the letters with or without help from friends and a pictuire in hand, hop in a plane to spend a couple weeks in an exotic tropical island. A few days of holding hands and moonlight walks on a beach, they're ready to commit to a lifetime together. This sounds to me  like a recipe for disaster. How many AW would you ask to marry you after just a few days on a vacation?

While there's no denying that some of these whirlwind romances have worked out, and some here on this board can attest to that, to count on it happening is nuts.

This endeavor is not for those with very limited budgets, nor is it for those who have some sort of fixed timetable. Most of the successful marriages here on this board seem to be guys with their heads screwed on straight, ones who spent the time, and who concentrated on women with their heads screwed on straight, too. They spent the time really seeing if their potential mates were really wife and mother material and whether they were really compatable.

More and more people these days want what they want RIGHT NOW! Unfortunately that's not how life works, you have to work at it and make it work. It's It's almost a shame our society is so successful because so many things are available RIGHT NOW, if you can afford them (financially or emotionally) or not. Take the shortcuts and you may get lucky then again...

Just my 2 cents.

- Jeff S.

... in response to Re: A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Jeff S on Dec 7, 2001


ANY courtship is a BiG commentment of time and money leading to an even BiGGeR lifetime commitment of marriage.  Some times LoVe does come fast but still should be "verified" by time.  Usually, the relationship needs to grow and blossom before LoVe is felt.

Courtship is such a confusing time with soooooooooooo many variables involved that there is no consistent guide to follow.  It is best to hold on to your commom sense as your heart races toward major decisions.

I find God through prayer helps guide me to keep balance in my life (with some /\ & V :-) and suggest you pray together with those you share your heart so you can have joint-balance together.  I find shared prayers are the best single means of serious communication.

Yes, websites are out of control and various "recruiting" of applicants affects the level of sincerity of listings.  So, write many, talk long to several, and visit a few BeFore you give your heart & $$$s in large amount.

My 10 centavos worth,

Jen

@^_^@  
http://EverlastingLove.com/jean.htm  

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

I worked with a guy whose brother was in the service. He was engaged to an American girl.  Apparently he came home one day and she was gone. Moved out, and had also moved out the $18,000 in his bank account with her.
Point is...people are people.  Ill take my chances with a Filipina anyday.

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

From what I seen and read, yes I would say the failure rate is on the rise, but come on lets be real here Filipina are women too, not just lonely women waiting to be swept off their feet. We (the men) are just as much as fault for this rise also. How can we really expect that meeting someone through the mail, telephone, email will lead to a life of happiness? I would ask; how many with problems went to the Philippines and married or purposed on their first and maybe only trip? I have asked this question before and got the answer of yes that’s because of the time and money involved. You know the old saying pay now or pay later, you choose. Guys these women are more westernized then we know (they watch our movies and TV shows and so on). Would you do the same thing here in the USA? Sorry I’m ranting here but my point is everyone now know how easy it is (both men and women) so yes we need to take a step backward and really do that courting thing. There is no guarantee it will work out but your odds increase. These are changing times and our actions will bring to us just what we put into this process. Let me end by saying there are a lot of good Filipina but now we must search for them and I know because of time and money this sucks but.....well you know. Just my opinion only.

Chris

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

Howard, you are right, the more the word gets around, the more women that will want to come to America where the money grows on trees.
That is one of the reasons why I keep suggesting that guys get off their behinds and hop on a plane.  It is not possible to learn about a country and culture by reading about it on the internet.  You have to go and see it for yourself.
Also, over 90% of the women do not have access to the internet. The ones that are on the internet are there for a reason.  And you have to wonder why they are so motivated to meet a foreign husband.  Maybe their motives are good,
but many make the effort for the wrong reasons.
Maybe a woman starts looking for a husband on the internet for good reasons. Then she receives responses from dozens of guys, many of them offering money or material possessions, now her focus is on the money, not the person.  The good girl has been changed into a gold-digger by all that is being offered to her.
If a guy goes and meets the women in person first, the odds are that he is the only foreigner she is corresponding with.
He also has the opportunity to meet her family and friends, verify that she has a job,  and make sure that the two of you are compatible. By meeting in person first you will also meet the ones that had never even thought about a foreign husband.  If you meet a woman on the internet first, the reality may be that you are corresponding with a woman different from the picture, or she could be married, or it could be a guy writing those love letters just so you might send money later.
My advice to the newbies is to plan a vacation to the country you are intersted in.  You will learn a lot, and it can be a lot of fun.

Don

... in response to Stop meeting women on the internet, posted by donb2222 on Dec 7, 2001

n/t

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

I think perhaps the key to your observation is the increased use of the internet. The ease of communications, has meant that folks don't have to put as much time, effort and patience into the search as they used to. Faster communications leads to faster decisions, not necessarily better ones.  

Think about the old days-5+ years ago, handwriting all those letters, lost letters, waiting weeks for a response. All of this slowed the process down, limited the number of people one could correspond with and the waiting weeded out the less serious and less determined, on both sides. Once a pen pal relationship was well under way, the "costs" of dropping one and chasing after a new unknown face were high, particulary for the ladies.

Course it didn't deter Momma from writing the letters; she just couldn't write as many.

As far as the PI, I would guess that the demand is actually down while the supply is up. Why? Just my general sense that with more agencies opening up in FSU and latin America
that AM now have more options and are no longer just focusing on PI.

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

I said this a long time ago over on Maganak and here too. This is no cake walk guys! The sad thing about it we will see more and more to come shocking and heart breaking, life destroying..... It's a dog eat dog world out there if you let your guard down you will get burned!   Humabdos

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

Hi Howard,

Stopped by and thought I'd reply to this one. Yes, I've seen the numbers rise in the last few years -- both the number of visas being processed and the number of failures (but mathematically they should be related, I guess).

It's not just a phenomena from the Phillipines. A guy in my discussion group for China-USA relationships recently found some new statistics put out on the website of the US consulate in Guangzhou, China. In FY 2000, they processed around 2700 K-1 visas. In FY 2001, they have processed over 4000 already. This is not a real surprise to me since WTO is beginning to bring more westerners in contact with Chinese. However, the Consulate goes on to bluntly state that the number of fraud cases attempting to utilize K-1s has increased. This is one reason that it takes longer to process K-1s there. When you consider this is just the fraud that they can detect prior to approving the visa, it get's scary.

I really caution any guy interacting with Chinese ladies on the websites and in the chatrooms -- go slow and take your time.  A Chinese woman can make a wonderful wife, but there seem to be more and more sharks swimming in these new waters.

Regars, Tim

... in response to Yes, and China is no exception, posted by Tim on Dec 6, 2001

Tim:
Would you mind posting the URL of the Chinese/American discussion group?
-- Jeff S.

... in response to Chinese/American discussion group, posted by Jeff S on Dec 7, 2001

Click on my name to see the URL, it's in my PL profile. Patrick's security is kicking in and keeping me from putting it in this message, LOL.

Regards, Tim

... in response to A Word to the Wise (Newbies, et al), posted by Howard on Dec 6, 2001

those MOB websites are full of Crap. They are only out to make money from their BS. Mr Peabody

... in response to Yea, Howard, posted by greg on Dec 6, 2001

Mr. Peabody and others.
Haven't you figured it out yet?
There is "NO SUCH THING" as a "Mail Order Bride Site"
Show me even "ONE" site where you can:

1.) Look at a catalog of women
2.) Choose one by name or number
3.) Send in your "Payment"
4.) Wait around for your delivery of your wife.

I'll give you a million dollars if you find a company than can
procure a women from the Philippines to the US without first...

You HAVE to meet them in person
You have to go through immigration unless you know some snakehead.
SHE has a choice.

Peabody, your statement that they (PENPAL Sites) are only out to make money
MAY be true in "some" cases but you are "Generalizing"
There are many "FREE" sites out there as well and others who only charge for their webspace(accounts)

As Don2222 said Spending TIME in the country is the MOST important thing.
NOT being unrealistic about the type of person you THINK you can be with is another.

Not every guy can have a Beauty Queen.
Some can but you must be willing to pay and pay and pay somemore as some here on the
board are finding. "Look in the Mirror" Be realistic!

Of COURSE there are more failures now but that is because there are more couples getting together.
Due the math.

There are plenty of success stories out there.
Taliman

... in response to Re: Yea, Howard, posted by Taliman on Dec 7, 2001

U may BS yourself into believing your Crap, but You don't BS Mr Peabody. As Don2222 said..Just get on that plane and be found by Love. Nooooo need to fill those Lying Crooks pockets with our hard earned dollars. Mr Peabody

... in response to Re: Re: Yea, Howard-Ding Dong, posted by greg on Dec 8, 2001

Greg,
 What is wrong with selling addresses?   Those 'lying crooks' gave me exactly what I paid for - Addresses.  Nothing more, nothing less.  If a guy wants an agency to pick out a wife for him and he gets burned, he got what he deserves in my opinion.   To expect anything more than a ladies address for the purpose of an initial contact is ridiculous.  I never have understand why some guys are so hung up on paying for the address of a woman.   What is wrong an agency owner getting paid for his/her services as long as they don't imply they can deliver you a wife without any effort on your part??
                                        SteveG

... in response to "Lying Crooks?", posted by SteveG on Dec 10, 2001

Sorry that I didn't explain myself clearly. What I meant was the advertising of the Women. Goodies is all MOB Websites BS about, no warnings for the unexpected Guy. Can brain wash a newbie Guy into believing that a Pinay can do no wrong, that any Filipina can be Loyal, Honest, Faithful, etc...Which is Crap and can Mess up a Guy's life if he choose the wrong One.   Mr Peabody

... in response to Hi SteveG Goood Points.., posted by greg on Dec 10, 2001

Greg,
 That part I agree with you on.   Some of the sites do tend to give the impression that all you have to do to have eternal bliss is to go to the Philippines and grab a woman and bring her back with you - any woman you want.  She will instantly love you and all will be perfect as you live happily ever after.   But surely any guy old enough to have the $$'s to get into this thing has had enough experience with life to know that's not true.   Don't they?   Well, I guess not but there's not much that can be done about that except to keep emphasizing the reality of the situation here on PL.  :)
                              SteveG

... in response to Re: Re: Yea, Howard-Ding Dong, posted by greg on Dec 8, 2001

Well then you must think Mag-anak site is full of crap then because they have a penpal section too!
Thats right you can see the pictures of the ladies there and  start writing them....and they are FREE
so there is no BS in that....do what U want....good riddens!

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Yea, Howard-Ding Dong, posted by Taliman on Dec 9, 2001

Hey Ding Dong!!! Good Riddiance to Yourself, go back to Mag You Sucker. hehehehehe

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Yea, Howard-Ding Dong, posted by greg on Dec 9, 2001

have a good day. Sorry!! Mr Peabody

... in response to Ding, Just Kidding lol, posted by greg on Dec 9, 2001

WHAT!!!! Peabody???..

That popping sound you're going to hear in a minute is me
pulling your head out of your Ass!!!!

Ok just kidding always wanted to say that though
Should have saved it for Hum! LOL  (hey Hum did you see the new Simpson's tonight ?)....AAAHHHHHH!!! ROFLMAO

Have a good week Peabody (Greg)

Balut-nog for everybody!!!!
Dingo Bingo

... in response to Re: Ding, Just Kidding lol, posted by Tali x-mas-man on Dec 10, 2001

:o)))) Peace.....Btw, I chosed the Handle "Mr Peabody" becuz it's a funny name and makes me laugh whenever I sign it hehehe Mr Peabody

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Yea, Howard-Ding Dong, posted by greg on Dec 9, 2001

Your name is "Peabody" and your making fun of MY name?.......

Merry Christmas to yah!

Taliman

... in response to Re: Yea, Howard, posted by Taliman on Dec 7, 2001

Same old tune the birdy sings, till one of dem flying sharks swoops down and rips your fricking head off!  

Humabdos