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Title: The" MOB" agencies and coming legislation Post by: Heat on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM Mail Order Brides Find U.S. Land of Milk, Battery
Run Date: 06/22/03 By Asjylyn Loder WeNews correspondent As Congress considers the need for greater regulation of international marriage brokers, a Ukrainian woman is suing the brokerage that united her with her now ex-husband who, she claims, battered her and is also abusing his latest "mail-order bride." (WOMENSENEWS)--This summer, members of Congress are expected to introduce legislation that would give a foreign woman the chance to look at a U.S. man's criminal record before accepting a commercially brokered offer of marriage from him. The proposed legislation would mandate disclosure of past restraining orders against the man and would require immigration services to inform the woman about domestic violence protections available to her. Washington State recently passed similar legislation. The legislative push coincides with the case of Nataliya Fox, a so-called mail-order bride who sued Encounters International, a well-known marriage agency based in Bethesda, Md., that specializes in matching Russian and Ukrainian women with U.S. husbands. Fox sued Encounters International in the U.S. District Court of Maryland for failing to give her information about domestic violence and for fraudulently informing her that she would be deported if she left her abusive husband, James M. Fox Jr., an Encounters International client. No trial date has been set for the case filed in April 2002. Natasha Spivack, founder and owner of Encounters International, denied the charges. "This is a major scam and she happened to push all the right buttons," Spivack said of Nataliya Fox, "If you look at her, she looks very honest, like all con-artists do." Spivack, who emigrated to the U.S. from Moscow, claims that Nataliya Fox manufactured evidence of abuse and lied on her immigration applications. Spivack started Encounters International in 1993 using a fax machine and regular mail services before shifting to Web-based services as the Internet became widely available. "In July 2000, James Fox attacked me," Nataliya Fox wrote in her declaration to the court in June 2002. "The beating lasted approximately two hours." James Fox was arrested for Nataliya's attempted murder in July 2000. In a recent telephone interview, he denied hitting Nataliya and said that his record had been expunged. Randall Miller, a lawyer with Arnold and Porter, the prominent D.C. law firm that took Nataliya Fox's case pro bono, said in a recent telephone interview that James Fox expunged his record by completing a batterer's class. The Tahirih Justice Center, an immigrant women's rights advocacy group based in Falls Church, Va., joined Arnold and Porter as co-counsel. Tahirih has been the leading force behind the upcoming congressional initiative that would regulate the industry. "During the entire time of my association with Encounters International and Natasha Spivack, I was never told about my rights should I encounter domestic abuse," Nataliya Fox's declaration states. "She said that if I ever left James I would likely be deported." James Fox obtained a Haitian divorce decree from Nataliya in January 2001. In October of that year, he married Inna Fox, a woman he met through an Internet marriage agency that has since closed down, James Fox said. According to court records in her case, Nataliya Fox believes that her ex-husband is abusing his new wife. Encounters petitioned to find out the basis for Nataliya's suspicion, but the judge ruled that the potential risk to the safety of the person who is the source of Nataliya's information overrode the defense's need to know. Thousands of Women Applying to Become U.S. Wives While services and costs vary, it generally works like this: men purchase addresses and profiles of women from a broker and initiate correspondence with the women they like. As the relationship progresses, men can choose to pay the matchmaker to send the women flowers or gifts. This is followed by a visit (immigration law requires that U.S. citizens meet their immigrating fiancee at least once), for which the matchmaker may arrange hotels, transportation, and translators--all for a fee, of course. Because the "mail-order bride" business is almost entirely unregulated, there are no reliable statistics about how many women enter the U.S. each year to begin marriages with men they hardly know. Between 1998 and 2001, the number of foreign fiancees entering the United States nearly doubled, from 12,306 in 1998 to 23,634 in 2001. Although no agency tracks how many of those fiancees are coming as a result of brokered matches, an Immigration and Naturalization Service report to Congress in 1999 estimated that 4,000 to 6,000 brokered brides entered the United States in 1998. Estimating the number of fiancees in brokered matches is something more akin to divination than hard statistics. The 1998 figures--themselves an estimate--indicate that one-third to one-half of all entering fiancees met their intended through a matchmaker. If the percentage holds true, then the number of mail-order brides that entered the U.S. in 2001 could range from approximately 8,000 to 12,000. GABRIELA Network, a Filipina advocacy group with offices throughout the U.S., believes that the congressional figure is low. It claims that more than 5,000 Filipina brides depart for the United States every year. Latin America, Africa, Eastern Europe, Asia and the former Soviet states all boast thriving online matchmaking industries. The 1999 Immigration report found that most brides entering the U.S. came from the Philippines or former Soviet states. No Government Oversight Leaves Brides Vulnerable A 1996 law passed by Congress required that matchmakers provide women with domestic violence information or face a $20,000 fine. Regulations have never been put in place to implement that law and it has not been enforced. Nataliya Fox is the first woman to seek redress under that law. "The agencies have a financial incentive to ensure the satisfaction of their paying clients--the men--but there is no comparable incentive to safeguard the woman," said Layli Miller-Muro, executive director of Tahirih. Internet marriage agencies thrived with the rapid expansion of Web-based commerce and communication. The 1999 report found that approximately 200 international marriage brokers were operating in the U.S. In a recent count, Tahirih found more than 400 Internet marriage agencies. Larry Gucciardo, owner of the Angelika Russian Marriage Agency Network, one of the largest U.S. marriage agencies, saw his opportunity in the Internet after his own frustratingly slow international courtship via regular post, he said in a recent phone interview. In addition to faster communication, the Internet eliminated the start-up costs involved in producing and mailing a printed catalog, and could feature a greater number of profiles than a bulky book. "We have almost 100 Web sites," Gucciardo said. "We have 155,000 clients and about 20,000 girls. We add about 100 to 200 new girls every week." Another problem with the business, say critics, is that it fuels men and women with false expectations about the quality of the prospective marriage. "The problem is that the organizations that market these relationships, that market these women, market stereotypes, to both sides," said Leslye Orloff, an expert on battered immigrants with the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund in Washington, D.C. "What they're doing is setting up an atmosphere that is ripe, potentially, for abuse." U.S. men looking for foreign wives can search for such a partner by her height, weight, age and country of origin. The Christian Singles Registry promises, "Virgin Brides from 60 Countries." Another site called eMates markets "Quality Women," while One True Love--an Angelika Network site--advises potential customers that Russian women, unlike their American counterparts, "are not spoiled or greedy." Some foreign women, like Fox, are finding that their American dreamboats turn into nightmares after marriage. One Russian woman, Svetlana, used a pseudonym out of fear of reprisal from her ex-husband. Svetlana nervously recounted how her husband repeatedly raped, beat and choked her during their 10-month marriage. When she turned to the marriage broker for help, they told her: "'It's just a different culture,'" Svetlana claimed. "I didn't know. Is this normal marriage? My father, he never shook the shoulders of my mom, or choked her, or hit my mother's head against the wall," she said during an interview in the unmarked, secure offices of Tahirih. Miller-Muro of Tahirih, which arranged the interview, added: "The barbarity of her torture is so severe that I think that as Americans we should be profoundly embarrassed that there's an industry that facilitates this." Tahirih is not the only agency reporting a recent up-tick in the number of abused brides. Lillian Bykhovsky said in a recent telephone interview from her shelter for battered immigrant women in Atlanta that the abuse of mail-order brides "is quite a trend." Bykhovsky had assisted two such brides just that week. Sophia Lutsky, a counselor in Seattle, said by phone that she was currently seeing more than 10 abused brides and that she had seen an increase in such cases over the last several years. In Colorado, Valyeria Roussakova, who came to the United States as a result of a brokered marriage, recently spoke in a phone interview about her own experiences. She said her husband terrorized her and her 9-year-old son by a previous marriage so badly that her son had frequent nightmares. Roussakova said her husband abused her emotionally and threatened her with deportation. "He said, 'If you don't like it, you can always leave,'" Roussakova said. After she left him, Roussakova said her husband withdrew her work permit and she lost her job. According to Roussakova, the marriage agency told her that they take no responsibility for the outcome of a marriage. "I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of the women you see on these sites come from very disadvantaged backgrounds," said Vivian Kutchon in a telephone interview, a victim's advocate with the GABRIELA Network in the Philippines. "It's just another level of control." Recently, Encounters International held a social gathering in suburban Maryland for some its clients. Bill Lawson, an enthusiastic Encounters' client, disagreed that women who agree to these arranged marriages are being exploited. "We're not taking advantage of the women. We're taking advantage of an opportunity." He described Russian women as "a little more old-fashioned, as far as values go. A little more like American women in the 1950s or the 1930s." Encounters' Web site says that the agency has facilitated almost 250 marriages, with only 25 divorces. Ken Meyers, an as-yet-unmarried client, hosted the recent social at his Germantown, Md., townhouse where Spivack's success was evident. One client, married eight years, held his 6-year-old daughter on his knee. Another, Joe, smiles at his wife of just over three months. A young Marine and his wife, married three years, humorously recount hard times on a rural base. In the next room, however, an elegant Russian woman who sat with her manicured hands clasped tightly in her lap did not appear so well-adjusted to her new life. In 2000, she married a man--her "soul mate," as the Encounters' Web site described him, who had been an agency member for just two months. "Potentially we could be a very good couple," she said, but her husband is isolated, moody, and frequently yells at her. He did not want her to learn to drive, hold a job or join a gym. On her birthday, he took out a pistol, one of his 17 guns, and put the barrel in his mouth and threatened to shoot himself. "He always carries a gun," she said. She did not want her name used for fear of angering her husband. After the woman left the gathering, Spivack mocked the nervousness the woman had expressed to her about having possibly spoken too candidly with a reporter. "She says to me, 'I am worried I have said something wrong,'" Spivack said. She imitated the woman, by wringing her hands and continuing to quote her. "'I am afraid because my husband he has so many guns'" Spivack broke into her wide-toothed smile. As she laughed, several of her clients laughed with her. Asjylyn Loder is a freelance writer in New York.
For more information: Gabriela Network-- NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund-- The court case documents are from Nataliya Mikhaylovna Fox v. Encounters International, et al. pending before the U.S. District Court for the Southern Division of Maryland. Title: Re: The" MOB" agencies and coming legislation Post by: lapentier on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to The" MOB" agencies and coming..., posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005
Passing a law against something which is already illegal is not going to change anything... Every major incident mentioned in that article involved behaviors which were already illegal. In fact if Congress passes a law requiring the information "before accepting a commercially brokered offer of marriage from him", they have just officially condoned the whole concept of brokered marriages and "mail order brides". I remember the amount of paperwork and footwork that my wife and I went through before we were married. It was very common for her to receieve paperwork there that I had to submit here, and for me to receive paperwork here that she had to submit at the embassy there. I also remember the interview, lugging a briefcase full of pictures, letters, bills, official documents, etc. just to prove this was not a "mail-order" arrangement. Americans don't have to go through all of this just to get married to another American. The safeguards are in place, and they were being followed (at least a few years ago). There are so many hurdles in place, a pastor in our fellowship (church denomination) is having difficulty obtaining a visa for his wife from Brasil, and he has been pastoring there and married to her for several years. Being a pastor's wife is the ultimate in "privacy of a fishbowl" experiences. They can come up with literally hundreds of witnesses to prove she is not a "mail order bride". With all of the postings seeking and giving advice on how to keep relationships together, where to eat together in foreign lands, meeting her family, etc., it does not sound like anyone here is getting a "mail order bride". Quite the contrary, this sounds like what courtship and dating used to be like in this country a few years ago. As for the 5000 brides coming from the Philippines each year to the U.S., I agree; and that number probably is low. (I remember seeing a hundred or so standing in line at the embassy on just one day.) However, do not forget the tremendous number of Philippine citizens, Philippine expatriots, and the descending generations of these groups. The number of Philippine citizens in the U.S. registered to vote is large enough that several polling stations for Philippine domestic elections were set up in the United States. Also, do not forget the large number of Americans residing in the Philippines. Just because the number is large does not mean they are "mail order brides". As an example, I don't have the statistics, but if I were a gambler, I would wager that the number of Canadian and Mexican women marrying American men dwarfs the number of Filipinas and women from the CIS. An interesting observation: look at the correlation between political parties and their support of immigration. Each political party tries to open the floodgates (yes, that is hyperbole) to immigrant populations that will vote for them after becoming citizens, and restrict the flow of those which do not tend to vote for them. Please note the large groups of immigrants bringing in true "mail order brides" not mentioned in the article--no one mentioned the Khmer Cambodians and Vietnamese, Hispanics bringing in Hispanics, etc. Although one cannot ever deduce the actions of any particular individual in a group, look how the groups as a whole mentioned as at-risk vote, after they become citizes, and I think you will notice a pattern... Title: Communist Propaganda Post by: Ray on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to The" MOB" agencies and coming..., posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005
The GABRIELA Network is nothing but an anti-American, feminist, communist organization that wouldn’t recognize the TRUTH if it bit them in the ass. There are no matchmaking or marriage broker agencies in the Philippines because they are illegal. The companies that GABRIELA refers to as “international matchmaking services” that are “trafficking” Filipina women are simply selling addresses. There is no matchmaking, “trafficking”, or introductions involved. If you marry a Filipina in the Philippines and petition her for a U.S. visa, the GABRIELA commies consider that as “trafficking” LOL Don’t believe ANYTHING they say! Ray Title: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Jeff S on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to The" MOB" agencies and coming..., posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005
If the real facts were only so widely dissemniated. From this study: http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm "SUMMARY: This bibliography examines 170 scholarly investigations: 134 empirical studies and 36 reviews and/or analyses, which demonstrate that women are as physically aggressive, or more aggressive, than men in their relationships with their spouses or male partners. The aggregate sample size in the reviewed studies exceeds 152,500. " - Jeff Title: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Traveller on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I get so tired of hearing how abusive me..., posted by Jeff S on Jun 21, 2005
LOL! I did my first 3 years of law enforcement at the largest Women's Prison in the World. Chowchilla, Ca. Although, I really never had a great problem with any of those inmates (Male inmates are somewhat a different story), but you ought to read the files on what some of those women are in there for. A LOT of them did have hostory of spousal abuse. If not downright murder of the spouse. Now I'm all for a gal killing an abusive husband. Yeah, you can she should have just left, but there are mitigating circumstances sometimes. For example, I had an inimate back in Medical. She was elderly 87 year old lady. Never been in trouble with the law a day in her life. When her husband was finally bed ridden, she plunged a pair scissors through his heart. When she went to court she testified that she had beaten for the last 68 years and phsychologically abused. Yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm not a judge and I wasn't on the jury, but I did get to know that lady. Milk and cookies nice, you know? Like Grandma. So, I had to think, never been in trouble, ever. Seemed like a nice lady. Didn't seem like a mercy killing, because if she was going to go to prison anyway, why not just say that's what it was. I gotta kind of take her side of it with reading the file on her and talking to her. Of course, I also had Dorthea Puente in the prison. She the old gal who poisoned her tenants in Sacramento, CA and buried them under the house and in her backyard and continued to collect their social security checks and cash them. These were elderly tenants so they signed power of wttorney over to her so she could cash their checks for them. As soon as she got that signature, she poisoned them. AND, THIS FROM ONE OF THE ORIGINAL ROCKETTES! I have read my share of female inimates files and you wouldn't think they were helpless victims. If anything, WE might under-estimate them being men somtimes. I also had Tanja Hadjazi on my yard. Rick (Super Freak) James' girlfriend. Yeah, go ahead and look her and that case up on the internet and see if that was real "Lady Like." Anyhoo, in my opinion a woman can be just as sadastic as any man can be, maybe more so because the trend is they think it out better than men before committing a crime. I mean, if she's simply "Gonna get that Beeeaaattcchhh"!" for sleeping with her husband, then no, but if she is going to get the husband she'll plan that out to the last detail. Just something I picked up over the years. Title: Chillawack Post by: markxport on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusiv..., posted by Traveller on Jun 21, 2005
Hey Traveller, I grew up there, well not in the prison...lol Did you live in Chilla or Madera??? Take care, Mark Title: Chillawack Post by: Cali James on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Chillawack, posted by markxport on Jun 21, 2005
[This message has been edited by Cali James] Hey Mark, my wife and I live about a half hour west of Chowchilla near I5 and 152. The whole area is really booming with prices so high in Silicon Valley and the new UC campus in Merced. You wouldn't believe it, but I was recently looking at new houses in Chowchilla on some tiny man made lake (more like a pond) and they were asking $700,000 plus for their 3000 sq ft model on the pond. In Chowchilla, it's just mind boggling.. Title: Cali James - Restaurants Post by: markxport on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Chillawack, posted by Cali James on Jun 21, 2005
Hey Cali James, In your town, there is a Peruvian place on the main drag, have you and your wife ever tried it??? Also, have you ever tried the Basque place near the railroad tracks, great basic food. Take care, Mark Title: Cali James - Restaurants Post by: Cali James on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Cali James - Restaurants, posted by markxport on Jun 22, 2005
Hi Mark, you figured out what little town I was referring to. lol I must confess I haven't eaten at either place. We've talked about eating at the basque restaurant but it truly looks like a dive from the outside. But I hear the food is good and that even John Madden is a frequent visitor of all people. I'll have to try it, I've been meaning to. Take care, James. Title: Re: Chillawack Post by: markxport on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Chillawack, posted by Cali James on Jun 21, 2005
Lol....I know where your talking about...lol....my parents just sold their ranch near there....lol....and you would never guess for how much....lol...that just made retirement that much easier....lol Yes, people from your town are moving to Chilla because the SV people are driving up the prices in your area.... Take care, Mark Title: Re: Chillawack Post by: Traveller on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM Title: Re: Re: Chillawack Post by: markxport on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Chillawack, posted by Traveller on Jun 21, 2005
Damn, that was a drive.....a friend of my father had a ranch over there, got my first deer there, almost 30 years ago....lol Take care, Mark Title: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Felinessa on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to I get so tired of hearing how abusive me..., posted by Jeff S on Jun 21, 2005
But do they take into account ethnic and cultural differences? For example, a girl who grew up in inner-city Detroit could probably kick any guy's butt. A meek and mild Korean most likely won't. I think bi-cultural marriages are a bit of a different dish. Title: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: doombug on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusiv..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005
"A meek and mild Korean most likely won't." Immediately upon reading that, I recalled a domestic case that happened a few years back in Southern California. It involved two Korean-American sisters; a dash of greed; an order of identity theft; and a hot bowl of murder-for-hire. What a juicy recipe it became! http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/The_Han_Twins_Murder_Conspiracy Title: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Felinessa on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how ab..., posted by doombug on Jun 22, 2005
LOL. They should make an anime movie. I've worked with a decent number of women born and raised in Korea and they come across as pretty submissive, all sugar and spice, etc. I think that if they wanted to kill someone, they wouldn't pick up a baseball bat, but try the poison road. Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: doombug on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing ho..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 22, 2005
Well, to some folks, kimchi IS poison. Damnit, that was low! Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Felinessa on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearin..., posted by doombug on Jun 22, 2005
You're making me crave kim-chi. I sometimes put it on sandwiches - really gives tired old turkey a nice kick. Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: doombug on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of he..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 22, 2005
I think it's the only Korean food item I consistently see in supermarkets. I'm gonna try that sandwich idea. Sounds nifty. Title: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Jeff S on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusiv..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005
My guess is not. Nearly all of those studies are US based. However, it is a stretch to assume that things are so different elsewhere. Maybe they are in the Middle East where there are defined laws differentiating men's and women's behaviours, but my tough merchant marine ex-brother-in-law, regularly got his ass kicked by his "meek, submissive" Japanese wife. In fact, I'd put her temper and willingness to resort to violence right up there with most Detroit ghetto babes. - Jeff Title: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: buster40 on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusiv..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005
poor argument...I'd last about 10 seconds in the ring with my latina wife...she knows where my soft spot is and how to get to it in a hurry. Then whose gonna be around to protect me? You? Title: Re: Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how abusive men are... Post by: Felinessa on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: I get so tired of hearing how ab..., posted by buster40 on Jun 21, 2005
Nope, your webcams. Set them strategically around the house in case she decides to kick your butt. Then call 911, so you have both a video and a doctor's report. It will hold up in court, but unfortunately, if you tell people your wife beat you, they might not be willing to acknowledge the mightiness of your cojones. Double standards suck. Title: Re: The" MOB" agencies and coming legislation Post by: buster40 on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to The" MOB" agencies and coming..., posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005
yup, us American men...we're just a bunch of gun-totin wife beaters. Hey, it's just the culture, right? Let's face it, the women here are onto us so we have to go find other women to beat on. But, thank God all those foreign victims are about to be saved by more laws. Superwoman is coming to the rescue to save the rest of the world from us bad American men....yeah right. Just remember fellas your're innocent until proven guilty (unless you wind up in domestic violence court) And, oh yeah, that hearsay technicality???? forget about it, it doesn't apply to you. It's called "excited utterance." And they don't have to be all that excited when the judge lets it into court to convict your ass. Title: Funny how these fem-a Nazis just showed up.......... Post by: Heat on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to The" MOB" agencies and coming..., posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005
Around summer time. But they are here to "sudy" the problem. Yea right..... Title: Re: Funny how these fem-a Nazis just showed up.......... Post by: Felinessa on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Funny how these fem-a Nazis just showed ..., posted by Heat on Jun 21, 2005
Yup, you're right, I personally worked on this legislation. Next thing you know, the FBI will be knocking on your door, Heat, considering that I have your IP and that your exes said unpleasant things about you. You should have played nice with me. Or taken anti-paranoia pills. Buster, I think you might be seeing the article as more extreme than it is. It doesn't say that all men are like that, but that there are some who are violent and that the women are not protected by a lot of laws. Scammers know the laws, for sure, and they will exploit them. But I imagine it's exactly those who get abused who don't know what they have to do and who think they should put up with it. If you get bored with your MOB, you could withdraw her residency application and her work permit. You could force her to go home. I know people talk a lot about the abuse law, but not all these women are educated and understand everything about the US system, especially if they come from an oppressive country and especially if they don't speak a lot of English. Why are we getting mad that there is legislation helping women? It doesn't mean that it will be blindly enforced or that your rights won't be protected. Don't forget that you're the citizen, so you have more options than she does. And, as far as the innocent till proven guilty part, shouldn't that apply to scamming allegations too? We always take it for granted that women are scammers, but we never seem to accept that some men are abusers. Title: Correction Post by: Ray on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Funny how these fem-a Nazis just sho..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005
Felinessa: “If you get bored with your MOB, you could withdraw her residency application and her work permit. You could force her to go home.” In the U.S., you can not withdraw her residency application or work permit and you can not force her to go home. Ray Title: Re: Correction Post by: Felinessa on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Correction, posted by Ray on Jun 21, 2005
If she's on a K-1 visa, you can refuse to marry her within the specified 90 days, after which she is forced to leave the country. So yes, you can send her home by not marrying her. You can withdraw your petition for a K-1. The article mentioned that one of the women had her work permit withdrawn. Now maybe I should not have taken that at face value, so I'm investigating. Also, if you withdraw your sponsorship, wouldn't her permanent resident application fall through? Title: More Misinformation Post by: Ray on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Correction, posted by Felinessa on Jun 22, 2005
Felinessa: “If she's on a K-1 visa, you can refuse to marry her within the specified 90 days, after which she is forced to leave the country. So yes, you can send her home by not marrying her.” He can refuse to marry her and she can refuse to marry him. He can NOT force her to leave the country. He could purchase a plane ticket for her and offer her a ride to the airport, but whether or not she gets on that plane is entirely up to her. Did you think he could drag her kicking and screaming through airport security and push her onto the plane and slam the door behind her? Come on Felinessa, use your head. Felinessa: “You can withdraw your petition for a K-1.” Yes, you can withdraw your petition for a K-1 visa for your foreign fiancée, but you’d better hurry. It usually takes about 2 months or less to approve most K-1 petitions. So what? After the petition is approved and forwarded overseas and the visa is issued, there is really nothing to withdraw, except your decision to say “I do” at the wedding. Being engaged to marry a U.S. citizen does not give you the right to U.S. residence or citizenship. People change their minds about marrying all the time and it really has nothing to do with their country of origin. Felinessa: “The article mentioned that one of the women had her work permit withdrawn. Perhaps she lost her right to work legally because she was out of status? Perhaps she forgot to renew her work authorization when it expired? Perhaps the article is full of half-truths and lies meant to misinform and scare gullible women? Felinassa: “Also, if you withdraw your sponsorship, wouldn't her permanent resident application fall through?” Maybe, maybe not. Many resident petitions are approved in a few months, so there is normally a small window in which the Affidavit of Support could be withdrawn IF and ONLY IF the government allows your request to withdraw it. After approval, there is nothing to withdraw. For those foreign spouses who have temporary conditional residence and are divorced within 2-years, they can petition for removal of conditions on their own by simply checking a box on the form. All this nonsense about forcing her to leave, canceling her immigration status, taking away her work permit, etc., is just a bunch of hype to get you all excited. A U.S. citizen can not go to an office and complete a form or call a number and have his or her foreign spouse deported. I highly recommend that you not believe all of the propaganda that the feminist organizations put out because much of it is pure crap. Do your own research if you want the truth. Ray Title: Re: More Misinformation Post by: Felinessa on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to More Misinformation, posted by Ray on Jun 22, 2005
"He can NOT force her to leave the country" He can't directly, but the INS will. I read the legislation myself: if he won't marry her within the 3 months, she HAS to leave the country, willingly or kicking and screaming. If she doesn't, she would be banned from entering the US for 10 years. Title: Another Correction Post by: Ray on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: More Misinformation, posted by Felinessa on Jun 22, 2005
Felinessa: “…if he won't marry her within the 3 months, she HAS to leave the country, willingly or kicking and screaming. If she doesn't, she would be banned from entering the US for 10 years.” On paper, yes. In practice, no. It’s good that you are reading the legislation, but you need to remember that law is one thing and enforcement is another. In actuality, virtually nobody will be tracked down and deported for overstaying their visa. If she doesn’t leave, she can probably stay here for many, many years. The 10-year ban would only become applicable if she actually left the country. Why do you think there are an estimated 8-10 million(?) illegals in the U.S.? It would be an overwhelming and cost-prohibitive task to track them all down and deport them, so they just remain. But getting back to the original thought. So he doesn’t marry her? What’s wrong with that? The fiancée visa is issued with the understanding that the parties INTEND to marry within 90 days. It effectively gives the couple up to 90 days to decide if they actually want to marry before making the final commitment. If one or both decide not to marry, for whatever reason, then why would that worry you or the feminist organizations? If they cancel their wedding plans, then she is supposed to return to her country, just as she agreed to when she applied for the visa. So what’s the big deal? Please don’t try to portray a broken engagement as some kind of abuse or violation of the foreigner’s rights, because it isn’t. Engagements are broken all the time for a variety of reasons. Not all foreign spouses arrive in the U.S. on a fiancé visa. For those marrying overseas, the usual route is a CR-1 immigrant visa for the spouse. When the foreign spouse steps off the plane, he/she is granted instant legal resident status with all the accompanying rights. Even if the couple were to divorce a week after arrival, the foreign spouse would be allowed to remain here, as long as the marriage was entered into in good faith. Keep reading and studying Felinessa. You’re learning and you’ll figure out soon enough that the feminist propaganda is not always the real truth :-) Ray Title: Example Post by: Jamie on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Another Correction, posted by Ray on Jun 23, 2005
I interviewed a Colombian yesterday that overstayed her tourist visa in the States she was there for over 7 years. Worked for many different companies in the U.S. and went back to visit some family in Colombia only to find out she could not get back into the U.S. She does have family in the States that are now trying to get her back in. Unless you are suspect in a crime once you’re in you’re in and no one is going to be looking for you or doing anything about it. With our broken system I would not be surprised if they let her back in again. Engage the Exotic – Latin Women Title: Yep! Post by: Ray on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Example, posted by Jamie on Jun 23, 2005
It happens all the time. Working is always a problem unless you have fake documents or work for a small employer who doesn't care about the law. A lot of those who overstay are working as domestics or private "caregivers". A simple arrest for something like shoplifting is sometimes all it takes to get your ass deported, but if you can keep a low profile and don't leave the country, you could easily stay here for life. She won't get back in on a new tourist visa. If she marries a gringo overseas, she may or may not get a spouse visa. It probably depends most on the mood of the interviewing officer when she applies for a visa. Ray Title: Re: Another Correction Post by: Traveller on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Another Correction, posted by Ray on Jun 23, 2005
Oh, don't even try Ray. Everything you bring up, she'll know more. She'll know more than even the guys who have gone through this. That's how we know. The only way she knows how it works is from what she has read. Title: Yes, you’re right Post by: Ray on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Another Correction, posted by Traveller on Jun 23, 2005
But so far, she hasn’t shown much knowledge of U.S. immigration procedures, except maybe for a student visa. I think Felinessa is intelligent enough to see for herself that the feminist propaganda that she has been exposed to is just that…propaganda. But whether she uses her mind or not is up to her. I don’t really care if one feminist is converted after being exposed to the truth, but I can’t sit back and let the propaganda slip through unchallenged. Ray Title: Re: Yes, you’re right Post by: Traveller on June 23, 2005, 04:00:00 AM Title: Re: Correction Post by: Traveller on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Correction, posted by Ray on Jun 21, 2005
Thats' the point, we all know that because of past information passed on by members, but miss know-it-all thinks it's simply that way. You can SIMPLY revoke her residency application or work permit. Yeah, ithink a few guys know about how "easy" it is. LOL! But in her defense, maybe it's different in Canada. Maybe they do kick them out once a Canadian Man gets "bored" of his foreign wife. I don't know. Title: Re: Re: Correction Post by: Jeff S on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Correction, posted by Traveller on Jun 21, 2005
It's hard to conceive, since Canada seems to be even more welcoming of illegal aliens than even the US. - Jeff Title: Re: Re: Re: Correction Post by: Felinessa on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Correction, posted by Jeff S on Jun 21, 2005
That's not true. It's more welcoming of LEGAL immigrants - there is a lot of paperwork, but the process is more streamlined and a lot faster. I think geography makes all the difference: illegal aliens would have to seep through the US, and that's not easy with all the security regulations. We don't share a border with Central America, which acts as a gateway for South America. Generally, illegal aliens don't come on a plane... Also, from the figures I've looked at for 2003-4, a large number of immigrants come through the skilled worker category, so the state has a vested interested in processing them fast. Title: Re: Re: Re: Re: Correction Post by: Jeff S on June 22, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Re: Re: Correction, posted by Felinessa on Jun 22, 2005
Hmmm. Maybe you're right. I just read this article on how Canada is toughening up: http://jannyrants.radiate.us/2004/12/liberals-pouring-into-canada-as.html - Jeff Title: Under law and set of Gov't Red Tape Post by: markxport on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Funny how these fem-a Nazis just sho..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005
While I can see both sides of this issue, I don't think overpaid legislators and apathetic bureaucrats are the best way to solve every problem we have, whether it’s real or perceived. This is especially true in this case, since the government doesn’t even keep track of divorce rates of US citizens married to foreign citizens, let alone domestic abuse rates. This sounds more like a knee jerk reaction to a couple of cases the media decided to push. If it wasn’t, then this legislation would apply to all couples marrying, not just US/Foreign marriages…. Take care, Mark Title: Re: Re: Funny how these fem-a Nazis just showed up.......... Post by: buster40 on June 21, 2005, 04:00:00 AM ... in response to Re: Funny how these fem-a Nazis just sho..., posted by Felinessa on Jun 21, 2005
It doesn't say that all men are bad???? Show me one positive statement in there about men. "Why are we getting mad that there is legislation helping women? It doesn't mean that it will be blindly enforced or that your rights won't be protected. Don't forget that you're the citizen, so you have more options than she does. I can see you have no inkling how domestic abuse courts operate throughout America...or, do you claim to be an expert on that too. |