Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa post)

[valleydude]

Finally I saw the light. My main concerns other than her schooling and her career coming first, were that everything had to be her way.

Well, I sent a few messages expressing my concerns "about us" and she told me how sad she was. (No matter what I felt, she felt it more. I fell for this over and over again.) I mentioned in my message that I was very serious and there were some things to be discussed, but they will not be second. I told her to let me know when she had time for such a discussion and that it would not be second. I said "No matter what!" She called and said that we could talk, but it would be interupted by church because she had to go. That was hard because I just put my foot down, but I always told her since the beginning that I have no problems with God coming first. (I still don't)

I accepted that church would be first, but I was in conflict with myself because I had put my foot down saying that this conversation would not be second. I believed that we would talk, but if ran into "church time" then I could accept it. I always told her that God could come first. I said that I was just waking up, but to give me an hour and we will talk. She said church would be later, and I felt relieved. I felt that "we" were a priority and it was nice. I felt that I could "clear the air" and it was nice too. For a moment, I felt our relationship was first even over "God" and it was nice too.

Well, as I was waiting and 52 minutes later to be exact, (before an hour)I received a message saying that we would have to talk later, because she was going to church. "She was not ok". I finally had to put my foot down. I hated sounding like I should come before God because I will never be like that; but I was very very clear and she understood it perfectly. After that I put her second for the next couple of days and she continued to tell me how unimportant she was to me. Ahhh how I fell for the guilt. Over and over she used my words against me. When I stated how she put me second, she always had a good reason and I accepted it. When I had a good reason to put her second, she did not understand. Over and over, this battle took place.

From the beginning I saw her reasons, but she never saw mine.
If I had to go to the store after work before it closed, it was not ok. She would say: "I did not want to chat with her!"  but she could call and break plans with me, because it was the only time she could do those things. I always understood, and she never understood. Later I found myself doing those things to prove a point, and later i found myself being wrong for the same things that she does. (If someone can explain this, please do. I think that, I will never understand it)

If she wanted to talk 4 hours late; or on the next day, it was ok with me, but if I had to stay at work an extra 30 minutes, it was a guilt trip. Blah, Blah, blah, ... f***ing blah! ... Sorry, she just has me in the pattern of wanting to prove my innocence because she questioned all that I do.

I have tried to move on and contact other girls but I see this pattern happening, so I am trying to break it. I can break it, it will just be a little time.

I thank you all for your support, and I will be "back in the saddle" shortly, but it is just in time.

All in all, I still don't think that she wanted or cared for money; but I do think that I experienced a self centered, high maintenanc (emotionally) latina and that this experience will benefit me very very much. I have learned that some girls don't want your money, but just want you to give all that you have emotionally, and I discovered one.

Nope I don't regret it. I know that I have learned from it, and it is kind of nice to finally have made the trip. At least I jumped the fence.

Lessons in the learning...

V-Dude

[Ricardo]

... in response to Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa..., posted by valleydude on Dec 17, 2004

V-Dude,
Thanks for sharing with us.  Your experience is a perfect example of why a any man on this quest must NOT want any woman so badly that he will accept controlling, manipulative behavior.  This lady has some serious personality and emotional disorder problems, and I don't think this comment is overdone.  What lies in store for you if you chose to proceed with her is more of the same - she apparently cares only for herself.  A latina will test you, and should you fail the test, will assert some control over you, and possibly (no, definitely) respect you less.  Having said that, you too must TEST your latina.  This venture, finding a latina partner, is basically a high-stakes proposition, and each one must weed out the scammers, players, insecure and undecided.  Good luck, you've learned a huge lesson here.  You're on the right track,
Ricardo

[Looking4Wife]

... in response to Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa..., posted by valleydude on Dec 17, 2004


"I always told her since the beginning that I have no problems with God coming first. (I still don't)
I accepted that church would be first"

I simply had to comment on this one... Yes, God should be first, HOWEVER, God and church are two different things.  

One of the most SERIOUS mistakes that Christian ministers make is NOT separating the two.  When this misunderstanding is abused, it can at the very least complicate, and at the worst destroy someone's relationship and/or life.

For instance, when my ex-wife and I were going through marriage counseling in the summer of 2003, I told her that "We are in an emergency situation, the (proverbial) house is on fire.  We need to spend more time together.  I would like to spend some 3-day weekends with you."  

Keep in mind I was the one who wanted to get divorced, and reluctantly went to counseling at her request, but I was the one providing all of the potential solutions... but I digress...

Her response to 3-day weekends was "they have to be scheduled 30 days in advance due to my church activities".  Intriguingly when she was in law school, she scantly went to church at all, while I went by myself on a regular basis as I have done all of my life.  However, after she got out of law school, and her DADDY started a church, suddenly church activities became more important than her marriage...

This is a clear violation of Biblical principle which states "For this cause shall a man (person) leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife (spouse), and they two shall be one flesh".

Furthermore, Jesus states (paraphrased) that "the married person cares more about the concerns of their spouse, rather than the things of the Lord".  This was NOT a command by Jesus, merely a realistic observation.  In other words, Jesus was "keeping it real"...  

Bottom line is that keeping God's Word and His principles first does not equate to being at church at a certain time because the doors are open, or because Pastor So-and-So wants you there at that time.  Specifically issues between a husband and wife (or premarried couple) must be addressed between the couple, or there want be any "couple" to worship God together in the first place.

[valleydude]

... in response to God first does NOT equal church first..., posted by Looking4Wife on Dec 18, 2004

It was actually nice to see someone else that beleives this too. I never brought that part of me to the board, but the principles have been part of my bottom line in how I live and in finding someone.

When I woke up I was thinking that I hope someone else could see this; because when I made myself clear with her, it was with these words in mind, not a matter of her going to church or not.

Many many things came first with her along the way, it just so happens that it was church at that moment. If she had said that she was going to the store, going to the movies or anything else it would have been easy for me.
Instead I was feeling a bit guilty over standing ground at that time. This has been a nice reminder and I'm not feeling bad about the timing anymore. Thanks!

V-Dude

[cabocancun]

... in response to Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa..., posted by valleydude on Dec 17, 2004

V-DUDE,

No matter what you guys are talking about, she is only concerned about herself.( In SA, they have church 24/7).
She used the fact that you stayed at her house to control you 24/7.
She uses her knowledge of psychology to manipulate you.

You have to be honest with yourself. Maybe you are really looking for a
controlling woman. If so,you have found your soulmate.
If not,on your next trip to SA:
1.Stay in a hotel.
2.Get to know several women.
3.Select carefully.

South American women treat men they perceive as strong very well. Talk to some of the policemen about how thier wives and two novias treat them.

BUENA SUERTE...

[valleydude]

... in response to Narcissistic, controlling & immature, posted by cabocancun on Dec 18, 2004

Yeah you are totally right, she did use the staying at her house as a means of control. I am going totally slow on this now except for planning my next trip.

Papi just said it, and I have read it here many times but after this it all makes sense...

Go down, meet girls, then go back and court the 2 or 3 you like. I guess some of us have to have a few hard knocks before things sink in.

Oh well, it's kind of cool though. I sent a couple of emails to girls to take my mind off of things and when they have asked, "Have you ever been to South America?" Replying  "Yes!" has seemed to sit nice with me. Now I know that right off the top, I have set myself apart from many on the sites.

V-Dude

[papi]

... in response to Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa..., posted by valleydude on Dec 17, 2004

Vdude, she sounds like a real prize!  Forget her and get yourself on the next plane to Medellin, Cali, Bogota, BAQ or Lima.  Hook up with a good agency and meet 20 or 30 women.  Also, hit the malls and local bars.  Then return home, clear your head and return again shortly thereafter and court the 2-3 that really strike your fancy narrowing your decision to your new novia.  suerte

[kented]

... in response to Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa..., posted by valleydude on Dec 17, 2004

Great observations.  Al fines de cuenta (in the final analysis) that was the essential insurmountable problem in my failed marriage to a Colombiana...she saw everything only her way.  

This is probably the most serious fault because it pervades every aspect of a relationship.  I think that can be a tendancy in Latinas.  My wife's top priority was living peacefully and never arguing.  She also tended to want see everything only from her perspective.  

So what I learned to do was repeat back the situation to her.  You want X, I want Y.  We do Y, I accept it and we live in peace.  I repeat this several times citing different examples and we laugh about it.  An interesting thing about my wife is that she never says that I am right and she is wrong but she just changes to doing things my way without any fanfare.  

As an example, when we met she was a smoker, not heavy but maybe five or six cigarettes a day.  I told her I didn't like that, talked about health, secondary smoke etc.  She told me that she had smoked for fifteen years and quiting would be hard.  About two weeks later, I hadn't seen her smoking in awhile and I asked her about it.  "Oh, I quit" she told me.  No announcemnt, no drama, she just quit a 15 year smoking habit cold turkey and didn't even tell me.  

You made a wise decision.  You can't be happy with a woman who only sees her own point of view.

[valleydude]

... in response to Re: Update.... (In regard to my finacee ..., posted by kented on Dec 18, 2004

That is what caught my attention in your VISA post you just made, and stated about comprimising with your ex.

As I was thinking about all the carrer things and school, I began looking back and was seeing this in her and then you posted it.

This girl was really never about compromising either. She was constantly (in her words): "No ok". Each time we discussed it, I gave her a solution. The solutions were never good enough and she always had an answer to not like the solutions and continue to be "no ok". One of the interesting parts is that it was always something that I was giving for her to benefit.

Finally in the end, I began to ask for some of the same things and she was not bending. What kind of sucks is that some of these were the very same things she wanted from me and she began to tell me how wrong I was when I wanted them. The worse part was that those things didn't even matter to me.

Thinking about it now, I'm just going to walk away when the games begin. I always did that before; but instead, things were bliss with her before it all began and I wanted to hang on to it.

V-Dude

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re: Update.... (In regard to my fina..., posted by valleydude on Dec 18, 2004

...destroy a relationship.  My ex and I would compromise and agree to do one thing her way and one thing my way.  I'd do what I promised and they she'd back out of what she wanted.  The non-polite word for that is lying.  

After the divorce we were friends for a while and I helped her buy a car.  She was the same way negotiating a price.  They'd reach an agreement and then she wanted to renegotiate at once.  I told her to stop it.  The first (and last) time she ever lsitened to me.

[jediknight]

... in response to Re: Update.... (In regard to my finacee ..., posted by kented on Dec 18, 2004

i have dated many latinas and it does seem a common trait to always think they are right and worse to never admit when they are wrong. in fairness, i have seen this in AW also, maybe it's a woman thing.

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re: Update.... (In regard to my fina..., posted by jediknight on Dec 18, 2004

changing is just as good (even better) than only admiting you are wrong.  With my wife she doesn't have much formal education but she has a sixth sense for how to treat me.  She obviously listens to me and takes what I want into account.  She just doesn't make a big deal out of it.

[jediknight]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Update.... (In regard to my ..., posted by kented on Dec 18, 2004

right on kented. it's one thing to be able to say you are wrong but that quickly loses its appeal if she is always saying it, kind of like saying i'm sorry, if you hear that all the time is becomes worthless. it would be exciting and pleasing to see that before someone does something stupid or blurts out what they are thinking, that they stop and think before speaking and doing.

[Looking4Wife]

... in response to Re: Re: Update.... (In regard to my fina..., posted by jediknight on Dec 18, 2004


I believe it IS a woman thing.

And I don't think it is any coincidence that the very word "woman" implies a warning... "Whoa, man".  If you say that fast, it certainly sounds like "wo-man" :-)  

Of course we can't survive without those beautiful women!  And of course, the alternative to women is just TOTALLY, and I repeat TOTALLY, unacceptable :-)

[Red Clay]

... in response to Update.... (In regard to my finacee visa..., posted by valleydude on Dec 17, 2004

[This message has been edited by Red Clay]

   Forgive me being blunt, but what a manipulative spoiled brat! That's worse than Pete's ex turning every argument into "you yelled at me". Sounds like you are far better off for seeing the light. A woman who really loves you will not use church or her schedule or anything else to avoid you when you have a serious concern that needs to be discussed.