Just to let you guys know.....

[Calipro]

[This message has been edited by Calipro]

What kind of nuts we have running around out there. I'll let you in on a private e-mail (threat) that was sent to me.

--Original Message--

From:  GS
To:  "AskDOJ@usdoj.gov."  
Subject:  Trafficking In Persons

 
 
There is a man in Phoenix, Arizona named Wayne Rowe that is openly discussing his possible involvement in trafficking in persons on an internet forum.
This is the internet forum:
http://planet-love.com/wwwboard/latin/
His real name is Wayne Rowe, but he uses the name "calipro" on the internet forum.

I suspect the FBI will be calling me shortly. Anyway here was my response;

beenthere

I think a more accurate discription of the situation would be:

There is a man in Phoenix, Arizona named Wayne Rowe that is openly discussing his possible involvement in the possible trafficking in persons, on an internet forum.

Hey I have a question for all the legal experts out there. Can someone be charged with possibly having an illegal idea. Even if John Ashcroft is the attorney general.  HeHeHe!!!

HeHeHe !!

Wayne

For all you guys that have trouble with reality, Let me help you out.

If something actually happens, then it is real. If it might happen or if it should of happen or if it could have happened it is not real.

Hope it helps..

Yours truely, Calipro

[Traveller]

... in response to Just to let you guys know....., posted by Calipro on Jul 19, 2004

I didn't want to post to this thread because I didn't read the post by Calipro, but I did eventually, to see what all the hype was about.
Calipro is saying that this isn't a big deal because this is all highly hypothetical and shouldn't be taken seriously. At first, I was kind of thinking the same thing, but the problem is, a statement was made towards breaking a federal law.
"Anyway I ran into a friend of my Dad while I was in Mexico. He is the one that arranged for my Dad to bring his mexican girlfriend to the States illegally. Turns out that it is getting harder to bring people across the boarder and he is now charging $2500 a person."
This shows that Calipro knew of an illegal act. Calipro states he has association with a person who he knows to be conducting ongoing criminal activity and knows this person well enough to know the cost of bringing foreign nationals to the US. Alos, Claipro states that he has knowledge of details of how the operation works.
"It's not that bad of a price considering that they only have to walk a little ways throught the desert as compared to many miles with other coyotes. Then they are put in an air conditioned car compared to being put in the back of some old truck."
These two statements go beyond simple hypothetical situations. But, the bigger problem is when the rest of the post is added with the first two statement. 1.) The subject has association with an alledged human trafficker. The word "friend" of an close family member is enough to establish association. Especially, since this "friend" was met in Mexico and a discussion ensued concerning illegally bringing foreign nationals to the US. This was made by statement.  2.) The Subject knows someone who has used the service of this trafficker in the past. 3.) And, the subject as knowledge of operation and price.
The law is mostly verbage. How the verbage presented can make the essence of a small paragraph have a different meaning. I think we all know this especially when it comes to the law.
Ok, once the first two statements are made the rest of it, assuming the statements are true, is no longer a hypothetical, it is now planning. That is because of these two statements; 1.) " This girl already does modeling in Cali but she could easily make between $50,000 and $60,000 dollars here in Phoenix as a dancer and or model."
2.) "So here is my question. If someone smuggled this girl into the country (assumming she agreed) and they got her a job making good money (so of course she would have to pay them back for the expenses that they incurred) and she would be living with them after she got here and most likely having an intimate relationsip, Do you think that this would be considered trafficking in labor or sex?"
Even though there is a question at the end of the post as to whether or not this trafficking  does not make this a hypothetical question any longer. It is negated by the first two statements. The subject as admitted to having association and knowledge of operation sufficiently enough to know or should resonably know that this activity is illegal and has knowledge of successful activity in the past. Plus the statement of; "so of course she would have to pay them back for the expenses that they incurred". This shows that the subject knows that there is a price for bringing a foreign national into the country illegally. Also the statement, "she would be living with them after she got here and most likely having an intimate relationsip" satisfies the requirement for trafficking for sex. The subject as stated that the alledged foreign national to be brought into the country would have to pay back the trafficker and she would have to live with the trafficker or their associates and that this arrangement may be dependent on sex acts.  
Now before anyone goes off on me and starts saying I don't know what I am talking about, this didn't come directly from me. I have breakfast meetings once a month with friends who are in law enforcement or teach law enforcment at Fresno City College and Fresno State University. We bring up different articles and situations and what we believe how the law would be applied or what mistakes or what was done right in past actions, etc. I brought this one up. (Don't worry, the copy was sanitized, no names or where the thread came from.) Everyone came up with the same assessment above. The group spent all of about 10 minutes on this as it was pretty clear cut to them. One of the professors I had said at the very least, there was enough evidence to proceed with quesioning towards the father for an possible investigation concerning an "apparently successful human trafficker".
Now saying all that and knowing what Chris used to do. Chris, what would happen if the Treasury Dept. got a similar tip of someone posting a thread concerning offing the President on a public forum and the poster stated he knew someone with past success and hypothetical questions concerning how to do it? You betcha there would be an investigation if for no ther reason than CYA.
The one bright note, is that the group agreed that there probably wouldn't be anything come of this because there probably wasn't enough manpower to investigte something like this originating from the Internet. They also said it depended on the person who actually received the email from the people "turning in" Calipro. It would be up to them to send it up higher or delete it. Then it would be up to the next person to decide whether or not to porceed with an investigation. Depends if it's a busy day or not or if a new directive as come down. Depends.
On a lighter note, the Mexican Omellette I had was fantastic. otta go get a rolaid now.
Later Gators.

[Traveller]

... in response to Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by Traveller on Jul 20, 2004

And, before anyone starts hacking me to death, I am actually on Calipro's side. The last post was simply what was discussed and how it was interpreted.
I don't have any ill feelings toward Calipro. Just want him to be careful and that this situation COULD be a little more serious than he might think. THAT'S ALL.

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by Traveller on Jul 20, 2004

Thanks for the concern Traveller.

But nobody would be more surprised than ol' calipro if they come to put the cuffs on him.

To tell you the truth, I know lots of criminals because I know a lot of illegal aliens.

To tell you the truth, I know the police know a lot of illegal aliens and they don't do a thing about them. I even called the INS to turn an illegal alien in once that I was having problems with. I gave them the address where he lived and where he worked. Do you think they did anything??

Nope!

[Traveller]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Just to let you guys know......, posted by Calipro on Jul 20, 2004

Oh, I know how that goes. We took down a house one time, and we got our parole violators, but we also had about 13 illegals. We called out INS to come get them, but they were busy doing something else and couldn't afford to send someone down to take custody of them, so we had to let them go.
The problem is that Illegals that are already here and human traffickers fall under different codes under Federal Penal code. While most agencies could care less about the illegals already here or the ones who simply walk across the border, Trafficking in Persons is a whole different animal.
The DOJ has a special division for this called the Civil Rights Division's Criminal Section and there is a division set up soley for reporting trafficking in persons called Trafficking in Persons and Worker Exploitation Task Force complete with 1-800 number. Whether they have the manpower to investigate every little tip is another matter.
Also, if I am a lowly border patrol agent who's sole purpose in life is to catch the "Coyotes" and their is a particular one who keeps getting away and I get a tip from an email that this board has some interesting info, I might look into it. That would lead me to your name on that Gringo Watch website, etc, etc.
No, I don't think anyone is going to slap cuffs on you because at the preliminary stage there is no evidence you have done anything at all. But, it might be enough, from the opinion of my professor, that there is enough information to begin a preliminary investigation. BUT, that is dependent on whether or not they have the manpower to send out even if they know which city you live in and your name.
I do think you might have a pretty good case concerning slander and the website made against you, but that would be a civil case and not a criminal one. I think. So, I don't have any advice there.
Some advice from this end. You made two statements you shouldn't have made on this board. Knowledge of an illegal act and knowledge of how an ongoing illegal operation is being conducted. You didn't say "What if" constituting that these are factual statements made by you. In the process, you implicated your father in the same illegal operation. I know you wrote those posts as lighthearted and weren't meant to be seen as bad, but someone saw it another way, enemy, jerk, or whatever, they do kind of have you over a barrel.
Just chill out and ride it out. Don't make rash comments. Think about your responses. Every post you make from now on is going into someone's file to be sent wherever. There are other groups these people could "inform" who have nothing better to do than give you a bunch of grief. I'm not saying back down, but have your ducks in a row.

[Locii]

... in response to Just to let you guys know....., posted by Calipro on Jul 19, 2004

The keyword is "conspiracy" here.  Like it is with all law enforcement, they need to "want" to nail you.  Frankly, you are probably not worth it, unless you are in the path to someone else, like illegal passport providers whom you are familiar with.  They would be worth it, and you might be a useful pawn to the Secret Service for that reason.

Calipro, I have been critical of you before (was it December?), with what I feel were good, specific, reasons.  I would *HIGHLY* advise you to let this topic go...disown it even.  I am not playing moral or ethical police when I suggest that.  Frankly, it would be good for you and the board.

Ciao

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by Locii on Jul 20, 2004

"The keyword is "conspiracy" here"

"you might be a useful pawn to the Secret Service"

Locii you are scaring me!!! You can't be that out of touch with reality.

Do you really mean to tell me that we cannot as Americans discuss how bring a women in to the country legally or illegaly might be constued by some to be a crime "trafficking for labor or sex".

To tell you the truth I had no idea the subject was taboo or that anybody would even be all that interested in it.

I think I missed my calling. I should have been a "Shock Jock" instead of a mailman. HeHeHe !!!

Oh wait!! I gotta go!! The FBI is calling me again.

Get back to reality Locii. I was just my mother calling.

[Locii]

... in response to Re: Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by Calipro on Jul 20, 2004

I wasn't trying to scare you.  I think my point was that nobody (in law enforcement) will care enough.  However, I do know something about what Homeland Security is doing.  This entire site gets collected, parsed, and archived.  It is considered fringe, whether you deign to recognize that or not.

Dude, I live in Key West, where probably 30% of the homes have a pot stash in them.  I am not paranoid, rahter the opposite; I know when someone is asking from trouble though...you *really* need to read the Patriot Act before you post publicly much more about have the desire, knowledge, and means to do what you were saying.

Ciao

[Craig]

... in response to Just to let you guys know....., posted by Calipro on Jul 19, 2004

Hmmmm.. Not really depending on the state you live in. In some states if you plan a crime (talking /writing could be considered planning) and make an overt act towards the commission of that crime you could be charged with conspriosy. Unless of course it's the federal goverment who's charging you, then don't need an overt act. Sometimes the jokes on you...

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by Craig on Jul 19, 2004


"if you plan a crime (talking /writing could be considered planning) and make an overt act towards the commission of that crime you could be charged with conspriosy"

Who needs drugs to escape reality when you have the planet-love dating forum.

[Craig]

... in response to Re: Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by Calipro on Jul 19, 2004

I feel the same way when I listen to most of your stories. Between you and heat we got Mo, and Larry who's gonna be Curly?

[littlebhuddha]

... in response to Just to let you guys know....., posted by Calipro on Jul 19, 2004

Under the Patriot Act you could be arrested and held indefinitely for even talking about bringing someone into the country illegally. All the FBI has to say is that they suspect you are planning to make the attempt for the purpose of terrorist activities. Under the Patriot Act no evidence is required.

[Heat]

... in response to Re: Just to let you guys know....., posted by littlebhuddha on Jul 19, 2004

Under the Patriot Act you could be arrested and held indefinitely for even talking about bringing someone into the country illegally. All the FBI has to say is that they suspect you are planning to make the attempt for the purpose of terrorist activities. Under the Patriot Act no evidence is required. ""

What a lie!  Are you smoking something?  

[Fuzzyone]

... in response to Smoking something., posted by Heat on Jul 20, 2004

You really do not have a ideal what you are talking about do you? I bet you
are not even or have never been a federal agent....

[littlebhuddha]

... in response to Smoking something., posted by Heat on Jul 20, 2004

Do a little research. Its a fact. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. These times require a lot more leeway for those ensuring our security and our sacrificing some of our rights is a relatively small price to pay for not ending up scattered over a four block area. But the provisions of the Patriot Act do indeed allow district attorneys and law enforcement to hold any person suspected of terrorist activity to be held in federal custody without writ of habeus corpus. My post to Calipro was done tongue-in-cheek. It is not very likely that John Ashcroft will be to concerned with Calipros ideas expressed on this forum.