Love versus Sex

[Locii]

... in response to A Juicy Story (bad pun), posted by DallasSteve2 on Apr 16, 2004

DS,

Glad you shared that.  Whether you were a fool (or fooled) into that marriage is an issue, and how much agony ending it was, is a different issue than the rest.  It sounds like you are pretty comfortable with what happenned in retrospect.  Which is cool I think.

Your story begats a question for me.  What about the idea of entering into a marriage with an understanding of it likely being finite (in length)?  

It sounds stupid on one hand and most would dismiss the concept outright...but lets face it; most of our marriages and relationships go that way anyway.

Has there ever been a thread along these lines here?

Ciao

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: A Juicy Story (bad pun), posted by Locii on Apr 16, 2004

I was watching "Love Chain" or something like that on E! and I got to thinking: almost everybody has multiple marriages now.  I guess that's not true, but it seems like it.  I remember seeing some girl on some reality show who was 26 and divorced 3 times.  I think it was the Latina on Cenicienta.  My track record is pretty messy, but I didn't get my first divorce until I was 29.  She's already got 3.

Steve

[Cali James]

... in response to A Juicy Story (bad pun), posted by DallasSteve2 on Apr 16, 2004

I heard another guy say something similar, like "it was the best two years of my life".  I guess if you're OK with it than why should anyone else care.  I'm almost to the point of not caring but it does bother me when we let scammers into the country with all the privelages that go with it.  Not only do they get in but they literally go to the front of the line, in affect passing hundreds of thousands of people likely more deserving.  That bothers me and when I hear of guys working on their 2nd, 3rd or 4th Visa I can't help but think the Visa's are being abused.

[Locii]

... in response to A Juicy Story (bad pun), posted by Cali James on Apr 16, 2004

While you might be right about 'visas being abused' in that they are being perverted from intended use to another, I am not sure it matters from a statistical standpoint.

Of all of the methods of entering this country and participating in its economy, (failed) marriages to a foreign citizen are a very small component, that doesn't even show up any 'problem cost to society' radar screen.

Going to the moral/ethical issues, the Federal gov't idea of using citizenship as a behavior modification tool and as a carrot for state recognized marriage is a dubious idea.  It can be very difficult to get into the US at this time, perhaps more difficult than any other time in history; dangling marriage out there as an incentive will bring out the worst in people, as we often read about here.  

Further, using marriage as one of the few entry points to US citizenship is further damaged by the current state of marital law.  If a new foreign wife (or husband) decides "I no longer want to be married, yet I want to keep status" there is very little that can be done to stop them.  Its a terrible structure when you think about it.  

Divorce has become like our car insurance..."no fault"...don't really need a reason, you can't be held accountable for not living up to marital contract..."its all good".  We sow what we reap.

Let the buyer beware.

Ciao

[Cali James]

... in response to Re: A Juicy Story (bad pun), posted by Locii on Apr 16, 2004

I doubt the INS created the K1 and Spousal Visa's with our type of situations in mind.  More likely it was meant for foreigners who had naturalized, allowing them to bring their wife, children etc. into the United States.  In this context, the carrot seemed reasonable.

However along came the 90's with the internet, cheap phone and travel and someone figured out that you could "date" and "marry" abroad and then bring the woman back using these Visas.  The K1 and Spousal Visa offered guys an incredible opportunity to look abroad for someone and a few adventurious guys like ourselves went for it.  Because, statisticly we are a small group, I think we are probably tolerated.  Gary Bala could probably speak about this better than any of us but I think the key word is tolerated.  If these kind of Visa abuses continue, they may change their policies and make it much much harder for us to continue doing this.

[surfscum]

... in response to Marrying prostitutes, posted by Pete E on Apr 16, 2004

It didn't work out for Phil Hartman, did it?

[tbirdjoy]

... in response to Re: Marrying prostitutes, posted by surfscum on Apr 16, 2004

That's cold.  :-)

[burbuja2]

... in response to Re: Love versus Sex, posted by Phoenix on Apr 15, 2004

[This message has been edited by burbuja2]

Yes and yes.  Yes I've known people who have done it and yes, it can be successful.  Generally speaking, the chances of success are highest when the girl has been involved in the business for only a short period of time.  I'm convinced that mental illness sets in with virtually every girl who has been involved in the business for more than a month or two.  There are generally two types of newcomers.  The first are there for a short period of time, and then leave because they don't like the business or need a certain amount of money for a one time event.  If you can meet one of these girls, your chance of success is probably equivalent to an agency.  The second type will realize that its easy money and will eventually stay in the industry for years.  Despite they're telling you want you want to hear, they really don't want to get out of the business.  For example, I used to remark to my ex-partner all the time that if some foreign guy came along and gave one of our hard core girls $5,000 a month to be his exclusive girlfriend, guess what that girl would do the minute our hapless friend was on the plane?  There is no doubt in my mind that she would follow the microeconomic principle of maximizing profits.

[WS244]

... in response to Love versus Sex, posted by kented on Apr 14, 2004

It is somewhat amusing the number of times the words spoiled american girls, followed then by looks,love, marriage, and divorce in dealing with ladies south of the border.  Men being men, looks seem to come first to most of the participants here, then love, marriage, and in cases then a divorce or two.
There was once a movie, in which one of the players was a Professor Higgins, and another named Eliza. Professor Higgins made a bet he could transform Eliza, a Southend girl of London, in to a lady, equal to the aristocracy of the english culture of the time, and then his little pet to show the world.  Of course a great movie, but a dreamworld, and a little far fetched from the realities of life.  The difference being, with the participants of this site, unlike the movie, this post deals with the real realities of life. A 60 year old man dealing with a 29 year old woman, a 40 year old man dealing with an 18 year old woman, or any age group, etc. are for the most part, the Professor Higgins of the day.  So it is not surprising to hear the reports of divorce, and the "she was not honest, she was a gold digger, etc."  The reality is, one can not expect,with exceptions of course, to take a latin woman, or any woman, from a life of hardship to love and riches, and expect the relationship to survive. For the woman in many cases, love equates to a money, opportunity, and security.  When those are attained, she no longer has need of the Professor Higgins here.
The point being, with few exceptions, unless one finds a woman of his class, (her looks do not equate to class) the failures will abound, and keep the lawyers smiling.  
ws

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Love versus Sex, posted by WS244 on Apr 15, 2004

I agree with all of your post except the part about "men being men".  That should be "humans being humans".  Women are as guilty as men in that regard.

I saw a commercial for an upcoming Bachelor, or something like that.  One of the women said "I knew the moment I saw him...."  So in the very first moment she saw him she knew what kind of personality and character he had?  Right.

Steve

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Love versus Sex, posted by WS244 on Apr 15, 2004

"The reality is, one can not expect,with exceptions of course, to take a latin woman, or any woman, from a life of hardship to love and riches, and expect the relationship to survive."

Talk about a dream world. Do you really believe that majority of latin women come from a life of hardship (some do and some don't even know it) and that the men that marry them, really love them (most don't really know them all that well)nor are they rich.

"The point being, with few exceptions, unless one finds a woman of his class, (her looks do not equate to class) the failures will abound, and keep the lawyers smiling."

More women in the U.S. divorce their husbands more often than husbands divorce their wives. With the divorce rate well over 50% that doesn't say alot about the class of American women in general. I haven't seen any stats. on the divorce rate of American men married to foriegn women but I would be surprised if it is over 50% which is a miracle considering the cultural transition and language barriers some of these couples face.

I did see a study once where women from various cultures were asked to rate their marital happiness and I was surprised to find out that muslim women rated themselves the most satisified. Why do you think that is when in my opinion they are some of the most oppressed women on the planet. I have a theory. I think they have lower expectations.

I think you are right about one thing. Most guys want a beautiful wife. But not only that, I think all guys want a woman that they feel that they can make happy. I can tell you from my own experiance that intially most latin women are much easier to satisfy than American women in general. But that can all change once you get them here. This can be a very selfish, unhumble society. I know; I'm an American. Who else would believe that they are intitled to a beautiful wife half their age just because I can go to Colombia and get one.

Misery loves company and sometimes this board is the place for it. If a guy is in a relationship that goes bad, most come here to spill their guts out. But, I can't remember one that said that they would never go down and marry another one again. I don't want to go into detail about intimacy during marriage but I will say that being married to a latina is much more enjoyable than being married to most american women, IMHO. I know I have been married to both.

If divorce is acceptable to you, marry an america women if you can find a nice one that isn't fat. If you are some what fearful of divorce, marry a latina from another country and bring her here. If you are deathly afraid of divorce marry a latina and live in her country, very little chance of divorce there.

WS244

Personally I don't measure the success of a relationship by it's longevity. I measure success by the amount of pleasure and satisfaction I receive from the relationship. So it shouldn't come to anyone's surprise when I marry a women half my age from Cali. If I ever become overly concerned about whether or not my marriage will last a life time, I sure as hell won't be living in the divorce capital of the world the good ol' U.S of A. I'll be living in Cali or some other part of latin america.

PS. Quit watching old moves and buy an airplane ticket.

[Cybear]

... in response to Re: Re: Love versus Sex, posted by Calipro on Apr 16, 2004

Amen brother!

[WindyCity]

... in response to Love versus Sex, posted by kented on Apr 14, 2004

I'm having trouble understanding the point you are trying to make. Are you saying that an LA hooker could be marriage material? Maybe...I've heard of working girls marrying their Johns before. Hell, many women hook up with guys just because of their bank accounts. That to me falls into the catagory of a "working girl". My problem with marrying a working girl is knowing oneday I'd have to explain to our kids that mommy use to smoke pole for a living before meeting daddy! Just a thought...
W/C

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Love versus Sex, posted by WindyCity on Apr 15, 2004

[This message has been edited by DallasSteve2]

Reminds me of a line from JFK, The Movie:

"How do you know who your Daddy is?  Because your Momma told you."

A lot of the beautiful, young girls in the agencies are pros or semi-pros.  They're not going to tell you.  Do you think you're smart enough to find out?  If you hire somebody to investigate you may find out.  Otherwise you're turning a blind eye.

(When I say "you" I'm not speaking to you in particular, but to any man who travels abroad to look for women.  Unless you live in her town and get to know her life, you don't know her life.)

Does that mean they can't be a good wife?  Maybe not.  A lot of good girls do things they wouldn't otherwise do when life is really tough, like it is in Colombia.

Steve

PS: I'm not a country music fan, but Toby Keith's song "Who's Your Daddy" is a great stripper song, not that I've ever seen anybody stripping to that song.  ;-)  Oddly enough, my wife from Cali has become a country music fan.

[Pete E]

... in response to Love versus Sex, posted by kented on Apr 14, 2004

I agree prostitution isn't a big deal here.There are alot of prostitutes,its accepted but still somewhat a social stigma for the girl.
I used proffesional services several times when I came here this time.I was looking at the issue of is this a mental problem for the girl,is it somehow damaging her? I concluded
it was a choice they made and they didn't seem unhappy with.
My problem with it was sex without a loving relationship just seemed a little empty,like it wasn't much of a big deal at all.And I hate those f--king condoms.It can turn the most fun activities in to a why bother situation.

Pete