Heads Up in Cali

[Cali vet]

An American friend of mine who is living in Cali in the south end with his wife went to a cafe internet a block and a half from his apartment yesterday to check his e-mail about 8:30 am and didn't return. His wife, frantic called here about mid day to see if he was with me but I hadn't heard from him. Finally at about nine last night I reached him at home safe and fairly sound. It turns out that when he left the internet cafe five minutes later he got about 30 feet from the door when two guys, one with a knife to his back grabed his arms and threw him in a car and took off. They took him to a wooded area where they demanded the pin to his debit card. He had recently had a problem at an ATM and the pin doesn't work. While two kept him in the woods the third went to an ATM. He returned very pissed. They punched him around but he had no working pin to give them. Finally about six in the evening they pushed him out of the car sans wallet, passport and his shoes. He more or less recognized the area and managed to walk in his socks most of the way to his apartment. A kind hearted soul seeing he had no shoes and a torn shirt gave him two hundred pesos to call home. Ironicly he had his passport on him because he and his wife were later going to go to the P.O. to pick up a replacement card that had arrived from the states. We don't know why he wasn't killed or kidnapped. The fact that he hardly speaks any Spanished and feigned understanding less than he knows may have helped by making communication too difficult. Also the fact that one seemed to be in his fourties and the other two in their thirties, old enough to think about what problems killing a foreigner might produce may have helped. Had they been kids it could have turned out much worse. Mostly it's pure luck. In the end they got all of about twenty thousand pesos out of him. The only lesson from this is that when you're in Cali try to be aware of your surroundings at all times so you can't ever be be surprised. I've also realized as a rusult of this it's best not to carry a debit card on your person when you go out unless you specificly plan to use it.

This reminds me of how we always say never leave the city except by plane, too dangerous and a foreign friend I met several years ago who'se lived in a mountain village for several years (without incident) who surprised me when we first talked telling me he almost never comes in to Cali, too dangerous!

[beenthere]

... in response to Heads Up in Cali, posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

Sounds like this guy really left his guard down.  No doubt these guys had their eyes on him for awhile.  Please fellas, realize where you are, always be cautious.  I NEVER walk the streets of Cali, EVER.  The only walking I do is at the malls, or in & out of a taxi.  Also staying at a nice hotel, like the Inter, is a wise choice.  VERY secure.  Might cost a little more, but what is your safety worth?
On the other hand, to give some piece of mind to the fence sitters, from my experience, it is rare that an American gets bothered in Colombia, only if he makes himself a target. As in any other large American city, just be cautious, and you'll be fine.  The only crimes that have been committed against me in the last 5 years, occurred right here in the US, ironically within 2 weeks of arriving from trips to Colombia.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Heads Up in Cali, posted by beenthere on May 27, 2003

I agree.If you basically go nowhere except by taxi,stick to the malls or maybe a nice restaurant there is very little risk.When you start walking around the risk goes up hugely.
I think guys who have been there awhile and have had nothing happens get braver.Thats when the trouble starts.
What this guy did would seem pretty safe.Walk a block and a half in a good neighborhood to an internet cafe.
First problem,walking anywhere.Most gringos can be spotted from a passing car.
Second problem,high risk location.Internet cafes,ATMs or banks on the street.Stick to the malls.They may have watched this guy for awhile or maybe,more likely, were just
watching the internet cafe.Maybe walk in,spot a gringo,wait for him to leave.
The problem is its not too hard to stick to the rules on a 2 week stay.Guys who live there could start feeling confined and venture out.Here the risk goes up.This guy got unlucky,but that can happen and probably will over time to anybody who starts taking even seemingly small risks.
Another problem is alot of locals are not too worried about crime.They are not targets because they don't apear to have anyting worth stealing.So be carefull you don't just think if my wife or girlfriend thinks its safe it must be.They will keep you out of the worst places but perhaps lead you to a false sense of security just walking around  in the better areas.
Phrase to repeat to yourself if you start thinking of taking risks---"The most dangerous city in the western hemisphere."
Somebody mentioned Panama?If you have to live in a latin country perhaps it would be a much better place.Find your sweetie and take her someplace safer.

Pete

[wizard]

... in response to Be safe or be a story, posted by Pete E on May 27, 2003

Is Cali "the most dangerous city in the western hemisphere"

[Pete E]

... in response to ¿Qué?, posted by wizard on May 27, 2003

Somebody said it here a few weeks ago.Then it was repeated on Bill O'Rielly's O'Rielly Factor.He was interviewing a former US drug agent who had been an undercover agent in Cali.
I'm not sure the source of the statistic,but if you think about it what city more dangerous?Probably an honor that goes back and forth between Cali and Medellin.The whole top 10 could be in Colombia.
I saw Rand McNally world risk map once.Colombia and either Uraguay or Paraguay I believe it was were the 2 countries in the western Hemisphere that made the high risk catagory.The US and Canada were  low,the rest  of the hemisphere was moderate.
Afganistan was the winner in the extreme risk catagory.
Cali seems like such a nice place in so many ways.But don't kid yourself.Even if you are carefull there is risk.But if you are foolish it goes up tremendously.
Some personal examples,people I know or their relatives.
A Colombiano is riding his Harley(not smart).He stops at a stop light,2 guys on another cycle shoot him in the head and take the Harley.
A lady has just parked her car.A guy breaks her window,dags her out of the car,puts a gun to her head and demands her money.
A lady goes for a early morning walk in a strata 3 or 4 neighborhood.She encouters a gang of young punks who shoot and kill her.
A guy leaves a bank and gets in a taxi.At the first stop light a motorcycle pulls up,they put a gun to his head and rob him.
All of these incidents were in better areas of Cali.Except for the lady who's window was broken the person had done something not too smart.
Yeah,I know,it can happen here.Its just not nearly as likely.I know,some guys have had problems here and not in Cali.You spend a lifetime here,you could have a problem,particularly if you go to the wrong places.Comparitively all of Cali is the wrong place.People who seem to have money,which include all gringos,will almost certainly have a problem if they spend enough time there.The question is how soon.30 feet out of an internet cafe,thats an example of the risk.

Pete

[cancunhound]

... in response to Yes,it is., posted by Pete E on May 27, 2003


" Murder rates of about 60 per 100,000 people over the past few years make Rio one of the world's most dangerous places along with Cali, Colombia, and Johannesburg, South Africa."

Now murder rates are just one barometer of what is the world's most dangerous city.  By comparison, New Orleans had a rate of 44 per 100,000 in 2001.  Problem is in Colombia you throw in the kidnapp rate and you get the double whammy!

[Calipro]

... in response to Heads Up in Cali, posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

What barrio is your friend living in and where was the internet cafe located? Also, you know the guy, why do you think he was an easy mark? Or not, maybe they kidnapped Hulk Hogan. Anyway more information on how your friend thinks the situation could have been avoided or why he was picked out would be helpful.

[Cali vet]

... in response to More info. Please., posted by Calipro on May 26, 2003

Calipro I'm not sure how he could have avoided the attack other than seeing it comming and running like hell. I don't think they would have gone too far from their car but who knows. The barrio is Guadalupe and the cafe is near a major shopping center, Comfandi I think. A knife was at his back pretty much instantly so I don't think Hulk would have had an advantage. Most of us being middle class gringos we aren't accustomed to keeping our guard up 24/7 (estar pilas) like maybe a long time ghetto resident would and that's what's needed. You can start by carefully eyeing any slow moving vehicals with three guys inside. Once up in Dapa walking on the road that goes over to Kilometer 18 a car with two guys stopped, backed up and offered me a ride. I thought yeah right!!!

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: More info. Please., posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

The only barrio en the south of Cali that I know well is Ciudadela Confandi. It is probably a strada 3 barrio and I never had a problem. If I am ever in Guadalupe I'll keep my guard up.

The thing that concerns me about your friend's incident is that there where three guys with a knife and a get away car. It  just seems to me that this was something that was planned out and not just being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

My question to you is: Do you have any idea why someone would single him out? I just have a hard time believing that three guys were cruzing around in the early morning hours to see if they could find a gringo to kidnap and rob.
Or maybe I haven't done enough walking in Cali to appreciate the dangers of street crime.

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Re: More info. Please., posted by Calipro on May 26, 2003

No I agree completely. I'm sure it wasn't spontaneous. He lives just a couple of blocks from the internet cafe and visits the shopping center frequently. No doubt they were watching for him. As to singling him out well he looks gringo and gringos mean "plata". There's no way around that no matter how funky you dress.

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: More info. Please., posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

Pretty funky, I guess. As I haven't been approached yet!

[thundernco]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: More info. Please., posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

"As to singling him out well he looks gringo and gringos mean "plata". There's no way around that no matter how funky you dress."

You hit the nail on the head, watch your back CV!  

Take Care-Thundernco

[wendell]

... in response to Heads Up in Cali, posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

I am sorry to hear about r.  Does he go to the internet cafe at the same time every day?  Tell him hello from me

[Cali vet]

... in response to Re: Heads Up in Cali, posted by wendell on May 26, 2003

No not the same time and not every day but you're right they must have had him fingered.

[Pete E]

... in response to Heads Up in Cali, posted by Cali vet on May 26, 2003

A friend of mine had an apartment right across the side street from Crepes and Waffles in south Cali.It was a short walk to Unicentro,which we did,but even that I thought might not be safe.
I think you need to think like the thief.Where can they find a guy with money?Internet cafes,ATM machines,leaving expensive restaurants  stores or apartments.And if you are an obvious gringo you are a target as soon as they spot you anywhere.Then the defence is to be at a place with lots of security,like the malls.Arrive and leave by taxi.Don't just take off walking down the street.
Its probably easier to get in trouble in the city than out.Stay out of bad ares and watch the places I listed above.But the chance of kidnaping is higher out of the city.
Alot of guys have had no trouble in Cali.I think one of the reasons is there is like a percentage risk to everything,and the number of days spent there increases your risk.
CV I  think its only a matter of time before the odds catch up with you.OF course being smart helps alot.But there is risk everywhere in Cali.No debit card and no passport is a good idea.Maybe some money in a shoe or a secret pocket to get you home after they take everything they can find.
I think your right about having a car.Its a sign of money.A lady I know had her car window broken and a guy with a gun robbed her.One of my relatives in Cali works for a company that installs security items on cars,like bullet resistant glass.
There is a reason Colombians with money are leaving.Probably a good place to find your woman then split.

Pete